Without knowing their individual circumstances, Football could do with some nostalgic managers from the past. Its great to see the way Pete Mc Grath has turned Fermanagh around. It would be great to see him also have another stint with Down sometime. Id love to see Boylan have a go at Meath again, Kernan involved with Armagh, Morgan with Cork, Johnno with Galway and perhaps John Maughan take on Roscommon... ;) Who else is capable of bringing traditional values back to their old counties and what realistic chance is there of that happening?
rrhf, there's no chance of Maughan returning. Even these days, if his name is mentioned, dogs throughout Roscommon have been known to start barking simultaneously!!
Seen as Johnno is running in Galway West- South Mayo constituency, he effectively is back in Galway again...
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 08:57:28 AM
rrhf, there's no chance of Maughan returning. Even these days, if his name is mentioned, dogs throughout Roscommon have been known to start barking simultaneously!!
The fact that even Maughan couldn t turn Roscommon around was a bad sign of things to come.
My rash has broken out again with the mention of the Tanman. :-[
I would say McGrath probably is the best odds and might have a shot in Down again - age is probably against him a bit though.
I think Morgan is the worst bet and think the only way he would be allowed back, if someone went on a killing spree during a Cork County Board meeting.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 03:33:43 PM
My rash has broken out again with the mention of the Tanman. :-[
I suppose he was easy to turn into a scapegoat because he wasn t one of your own?
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 25, 2015, 03:42:10 PM
I would say McGrath probably is the best odds and might have a shot in Down again - age is probably against him a bit though.
I think Morgan is the worst bet and think the only way he would be allowed back, if someone went on a killing spree during a Cork County Board meeting.
This could happen at any given meeting.
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Quote from: Hardy on July 25, 2015, 04:23:44 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 25, 2015, 03:42:10 PM
I would say McGrath probably is the best odds and might have a shot in Down again - age is probably against him a bit though.
I think Morgan is the worst bet and think the only way he would be allowed back, if someone went on a killing spree during a Cork County Board meeting.
This could happen at any given meeting.
Nah I reckon the odds at a Cork County Board meeting are much higher that a lot of other county board meetings (at most other county board meetings you have the bitching in the pub after but I reckon Frank doesn't even allow that, so the pressure has probably built up something fierce in some of those club delegates - after years and years of being kept quiet by Frank and friends, one of these surely has to be short odds to snap and goes loolally.
At a guess I'd say it will be the one where they announce how many million they actually end up paying for the new Stadium.
Sorry - that's what I meant - it could happen at any give Cork CB meeting.
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Still peddling the "Maughtan abuse" fiction I see.
That tale was well debunked by the Friday after he departed. ;)
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Big Art for Tyrone
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
Pete Mc Grath might return as a player for Down!
I'll say no more on the subject Not.
Don't want to get GAAboard in trouble.....
Micko would have 30k Kildare fans in Croke Park next week.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
On the other hand maybe ye intended to appoint a writer that had died 40 years before ;D ;D
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
I don t know but doubt he dwells on it much.
No point comparing him to Johnno ( Maughan streets ahead). Johnno was rubbish with Mayo second time around and not much better first time. Johnno inherited good teams both times and inevitably made them worse.
Yeah, the Galway years make him a hero there. The books and videos are there. Have a look and make up your own mind.
Maughan had a massive record v Galway. 98 was a game we should have won as well. Still raw but a hell of a performance from a team that had just lost 2 AI in a row and Galway got the breaks. 99 showed that. I do admit though that losing to Cork in the semi was unforgivable and is still raw to this day. Ok, I ll hang Maughan for that( not stuff he did in Ros), and Meath won probably the cheapest AI that I've seen that year.
But Johnno was poor in 90, 91. Not great in 88,89 either truth be told.
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:51:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
I don t know but doubt he dwells on it much.
No point comparing him to Johnno ( Maughan streets ahead). Johnno was rubbish with Mayo second time around and not much better first time. Johnno inherited good teams both times and inevitably made them worse.
Yeah, the Galway years make him a hero there. The books and videos are there. Have a look and make up your own mind.
Maughan had a massive record v Galway. 98 was a game we should have won as well. Still raw but a hell of a performance from a team that had just lost 2 AI in a row and Galway got the breaks. 99 showed that. I do admit though that losing to Cork in the semi was unforgivable and is still raw to this day. Ok, I ll hang Maughan for that( not stuff he did in Ros), and Meath won probably the cheapest AI that I've seen that year.
But Johnno was poor in 90, 91. Not great in 88,89 either truth be told.
Maughan and Johnno are much closer than you'd want to believe, indeed I have much more time for Mr. 'Last house in Mayo'. For Maughan's Clare see Johnno's Leitrim. What tips the scales for me is Johnno won a schools AI with Nathys in 2000. I arrived at Nathys a few years later after he'd stepped down and we were a shambles, you could count on one hand the amount of games the senior team won in my time there. Johnno knew how to mould teams too, and he did what Maughan never did however you cut it. Johnno had reached his sell-by date by his second reign in Mayo but it's hard for me to count him as worse than Maughan.
For Maughan the clincher for me is he ran from Fermanagh after a year too - it wasn't a Rossie thing with him. Read what he said here - http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/maughan-quits-as-fermanagh-boss-26079763.html - the Roscommon team weren't the only ones shying away from hard graft..
Maughan was good for getting Mayo fit and prepared but he was tactically inept in the All Ireland finals in 1996,97 and 2004. O'Mahony was more clued in tactically hence why Galway won two All Irelands and lost a 3rd narrowly after a replay to a Kerry side that was better than 1997. He also won U-21 All Ireland with Mayo in mid 80s and 1989 was Mayos first senior All Ireland final appearance since 1951. Its all about the right place at the right time for some managers and in my opinion if O'Mahony was Mayo manager for the 1996,97 All Ireland finals Mayo would have won at least one of those finals.
Having done well at Sigerson cup level the last few years i would like see Billy Morgan given another year at county level he won't come back to Cork however could be a good fit for Tipp for the next year or two.
Every thread descends into Roscommon v Mayo posters
Fascinating
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 02:01:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:51:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
I don t know but doubt he dwells on it much.
No point comparing him to Johnno ( Maughan streets ahead). Johnno was rubbish with Mayo second time around and not much better first time. Johnno inherited good teams both times and inevitably made them worse.
Yeah, the Galway years make him a hero there. The books and videos are there. Have a look and make up your own mind.
Maughan had a massive record v Galway. 98 was a game we should have won as well. Still raw but a hell of a performance from a team that had just lost 2 AI in a row and Galway got the breaks. 99 showed that. I do admit though that losing to Cork in the semi was unforgivable and is still raw to this day. Ok, I ll hang Maughan for that( not stuff he did in Ros), and Meath won probably the cheapest AI that I've seen that year.
But Johnno was poor in 90, 91. Not great in 88,89 either truth be told.
Maughan and Johnno are much closer than you'd want to believe, indeed I have much more time for Mr. 'Last house in Mayo'. For Maughan's Clare see Johnno's Leitrim. What tips the scales for me is Johnno won a schools AI with Nathys in 2000. I arrived at Nathys a few years later after he'd stepped down and we were a shambles, you could count on one hand the amount of games the senior team won in my time there. Johnno knew how to mould teams too, and he did what Maughan never did however you cut it. Johnno had reached his sell-by date by his second reign in Mayo but it's hard for me to count him as worse than Maughan.
For Maughan the clincher for me is he ran from Fermanagh after a year too - it wasn't a Rossie thing with him. Read what he said here - http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/maughan-quits-as-fermanagh-boss-26079763.html - the Roscommon team weren't the only ones shying away from hard graft..
They won a B AI Sy. It was a good team. They had Andy Moran and other very good players like Joe McCann. I for get the others. They were as good as some teams playing A so it was no big deal really. It was also well known - may be a bit unfair - that Johnno wouldn t waste his time with poor schools teams.
He also had a team packed with talent in 83 AI U21 team. In Leitrim he inherited a team that was good enough to take advantage of a Mayo in disarray. Without that break the Galway gig would never have happened.
Johnno never managed to mould a team in Mayo and failed to renew Galway post 2001.
He never did anything to compare to Maughan in 96. From struggling in Div 3 to within a freak point of winning an AI. Remember Mayo football was at a historic all time low after 6 terrible years with humiliating thrashings from Cork(93) and Galway (95). Plus that loss to Leitrim in 94. That was arguably our lowest point in history. Ironically it took Johnno to rival these lows 2007 - 2010. In 2010 he managed to lose to both Sligo and Longford.
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
Picked the wrong populace to fight with. Ming is the man.
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 10:02:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 02:01:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:51:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
I don t know but doubt he dwells on it much.
No point comparing him to Johnno ( Maughan streets ahead). Johnno was rubbish with Mayo second time around and not much better first time. Johnno inherited good teams both times and inevitably made them worse.
Yeah, the Galway years make him a hero there. The books and videos are there. Have a look and make up your own mind.
Maughan had a massive record v Galway. 98 was a game we should have won as well. Still raw but a hell of a performance from a team that had just lost 2 AI in a row and Galway got the breaks. 99 showed that. I do admit though that losing to Cork in the semi was unforgivable and is still raw to this day. Ok, I ll hang Maughan for that( not stuff he did in Ros), and Meath won probably the cheapest AI that I've seen that year.
But Johnno was poor in 90, 91. Not great in 88,89 either truth be told.
Maughan and Johnno are much closer than you'd want to believe, indeed I have much more time for Mr. 'Last house in Mayo'. For Maughan's Clare see Johnno's Leitrim. What tips the scales for me is Johnno won a schools AI with Nathys in 2000. I arrived at Nathys a few years later after he'd stepped down and we were a shambles, you could count on one hand the amount of games the senior team won in my time there. Johnno knew how to mould teams too, and he did what Maughan never did however you cut it. Johnno had reached his sell-by date by his second reign in Mayo but it's hard for me to count him as worse than Maughan.
For Maughan the clincher for me is he ran from Fermanagh after a year too - it wasn't a Rossie thing with him. Read what he said here - http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/maughan-quits-as-fermanagh-boss-26079763.html - the Roscommon team weren't the only ones shying away from hard graft..
They won a B AI Sy. It was a good team. They had Andy Moran and other very good players like Joe McCann. I for get the others. They were as good as some teams playing A so it was no big deal really. It was also well known - may be a bit unfair - that Johnno wouldn t waste his time with poor schools teams.
He also had a team packed with talent in 83 AI U21 team. In Leitrim he inherited a team that was good enough to take advantage of a Mayo in disarray. Without that break the Galway gig would never have happened.
Johnno never managed to mould a team in Mayo and failed to renew Galway post 2001.
He never did anything to compare to Maughan in 96. From struggling in Div 3 to within a freak point of winning an AI. Remember Mayo football was at a historic all time low after 6 terrible years with humiliating thrashings from Cork(93) and Galway (95). Plus that loss to Leitrim in 94. That was arguably our lowest point in history. Ironically it took Johnno to rival these lows 2007 - 2010. In 2010 he managed to lose to both Sligo and Longford.
Johnno was helping out Michael Glaveys back in the mid-nineties too - hardly a glamorous gig. And he won that Colleges AI while Galway manager and teaching full-time - that's a serious workload whatever way you look at it. The 2000 team had a few good players alright (big David McNulty, a county minor and someone who went on to play in AI junior finals for Roscommon too) but so did the teams after Johnno - a young Pierce was a damn sight beyond what Andy could do at the same age - and they did nothing. The players believed in him.
Management is partly about luck but no one gets as 'lucky' as Johnno without being a canny manager. He did what no Connacht manager has done since the 60s - I don't think that Galway team's success was ever assured and under a poorer manager they would not have achieved what they did. They were competing in the strongest Connacht championships probably of all-time with Mayo, Roscommon and even Sligo having teams of note.
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 10:19:53 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 10:02:21 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 02:01:01 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:51:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 01:25:08 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 26, 2015, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Syferus on July 26, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:48:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2015, 11:39:06 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 11:28:11 PM
Quote from: Syferus on July 25, 2015, 05:50:16 PM
Quote from: moysider on July 25, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Quote from: Shrewdness on July 25, 2015, 04:04:37 PM
Moysider, Des Newton was one of our own and only lasted a year.
Didn t get the abuse Maughan did.
Likes of McStay or Horan would be nuts to go near it as well.
Maughan picked a fight with the populace. I doubt many managers would be as silly.
He refused to be bullied and abused. There's a difference.
Are you Maugham?
After another abject performance when he referred to the supporters as customers a few fans said Go home to Mayo to him.
A certain Co Board man said John I can'tback you any more so the abuse tale was spun as the reason for him going.
There s ben a few since his time too.
The perception around here is that Maughan (who had done well with Clare and Mayo) was the patsy who took the hit for a poor squad.
That's the perception, and as you know, perception is reality.
BTW, I have little sympathy for Maughan. He was silly to take the job in the first place. I doubt if Horan or McStay would be as daft.
The reality was Maughan came along and started dropping key players not just from the starting team but from the panel entirely. We had situations where Frankie was sticking it to Maughan after Brigids won the county title one year. It was pretty much open warfare between Maughan and the county, most of whom could see he'd burnt bridges too hastily and was too small to admit he was wrong. And eventually his choices caught up to him and the panel was so devoid of confidence entering 2008 that we were smashed by almost every team we played. The players and supporters essentially mutinied against him, it was fúcking farce that a good manager would have been able to foresee and avoid. Hard to look at what that panel achieved only a couple years before he arrived and what they won a couple years after he was ran and say he simply inherited a poor panel.
When you look at bould Johneen's unwillingness to be be 'bullied or abused' by the very same elements the situation is much different. Some people have never taken to him but most respect him. That's something you have to earn as a manager. Maughan thought because of his record he had no need to earn respect and that it should be simply afforded to him.
Thinking about Maughan just makes me think we may as well keep Evans because we've got a terrible record selecting managers.
Talk to Clare people. He gave them their best time ever in football. Got us closer than anybody too as well. That's not bad.
Don t mind Frankie. Or the lad the other players used to call 'bulmers' during games. Lads that can play alright but Maughan would have been aiming at a high level of fitness and commitment. Don t forget Loughnane used Maughan's template as the drive for Clare hurlers breakthrough. The hurlers were shamed into getting tough on themselves. It looks like Roscommon didn t fancy it and it still looks like some of them don t.
He may have been a good manager then but he certainly was not in the years 2005-2008. That's a bit like me pointing out Johnno is a two-time senior AI winning manager when a Mayo supporter mentions losing to Sligo and Longford in 2010 - no shit, but that doesn't change what happened.
The current panel is not even comparable to the early to mid 00s team in commitment either. We learnt our lessons. I wonder did Maughan or does he just blame Roscommon and play the victim?
I don t know but doubt he dwells on it much.
No point comparing him to Johnno ( Maughan streets ahead). Johnno was rubbish with Mayo second time around and not much better first time. Johnno inherited good teams both times and inevitably made them worse.
Yeah, the Galway years make him a hero there. The books and videos are there. Have a look and make up your own mind.
Maughan had a massive record v Galway. 98 was a game we should have won as well. Still raw but a hell of a performance from a team that had just lost 2 AI in a row and Galway got the breaks. 99 showed that. I do admit though that losing to Cork in the semi was unforgivable and is still raw to this day. Ok, I ll hang Maughan for that( not stuff he did in Ros), and Meath won probably the cheapest AI that I've seen that year.
But Johnno was poor in 90, 91. Not great in 88,89 either truth be told.
Maughan and Johnno are much closer than you'd want to believe, indeed I have much more time for Mr. 'Last house in Mayo'. For Maughan's Clare see Johnno's Leitrim. What tips the scales for me is Johnno won a schools AI with Nathys in 2000. I arrived at Nathys a few years later after he'd stepped down and we were a shambles, you could count on one hand the amount of games the senior team won in my time there. Johnno knew how to mould teams too, and he did what Maughan never did however you cut it. Johnno had reached his sell-by date by his second reign in Mayo but it's hard for me to count him as worse than Maughan.
For Maughan the clincher for me is he ran from Fermanagh after a year too - it wasn't a Rossie thing with him. Read what he said here - http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/maughan-quits-as-fermanagh-boss-26079763.html - the Roscommon team weren't the only ones shying away from hard graft..
They won a B AI Sy. It was a good team. They had Andy Moran and other very good players like Joe McCann. I for get the others. They were as good as some teams playing A so it was no big deal really. It was also well known - may be a bit unfair - that Johnno wouldn t waste his time with poor schools teams.
He also had a team packed with talent in 83 AI U21 team. In Leitrim he inherited a team that was good enough to take advantage of a Mayo in disarray. Without that break the Galway gig would never have happened.
Johnno never managed to mould a team in Mayo and failed to renew Galway post 2001.
He never did anything to compare to Maughan in 96. From struggling in Div 3 to within a freak point of winning an AI. Remember Mayo football was at a historic all time low after 6 terrible years with humiliating thrashings from Cork(93) and Galway (95). Plus that loss to Leitrim in 94. That was arguably our lowest point in history. Ironically it took Johnno to rival these lows 2007 - 2010. In 2010 he managed to lose to both Sligo and Longford.
Johnno was helping out Michael Glaveys back in the mid-nineties too - hardly a glamorous gig. And he won that Colleges AI while Galway manager and teaching full-time - that's a serious workload whatever way you look at it. The 2000 team had a few good players alright (big David McNulty, a county minor and someone who went on to play in AI junior finals for Roscommon too) but so did the teams after Johnno - a young Pierce was a damn sight beyond what Andy could do at the same age - and they did nothing. The players believed in him.
Management is partly about luck but no one gets as 'lucky' as Johnno without being a canny manager. He did what no Connacht manager has done since the 60s - I don't think that Galway team's success was ever assured and under a poorer manager they would not have achieved what they did. They were competing in the strongest Connacht championships probably of all-time with Mayo, Roscommon and even Sligo having teams of note.
Johnno managed young Pierce too but may have been gone before Pierce was senior.
Of course he was canny. Politician ffs.
In football he got the bounce. And yeah others might have been asleep which was not his fault. The 98 game in Castlebar was a huge break. Could have gone either way. Always thought we blew it.