Messages

and you have no 'facts' to back up your opinion that souness was not anti Irish

thats it in a nutshell
my opinions are down to the fact I cannot recall transfers at the time in or out.
Also that you rubbish my knowledge of liverpool FC by castigating my opinions on barnes and beardsley
the crux here is that I have a 'low level of knowledge you have about Liverpool FC '  ...
did you actually watch Liverpool from 1975 up until the introduction of barnes and beardsley?
they stuck out like a sore thumb at the time and again I recall discussing with a few liverpool fans at the time who agreed that they did not fit into the then traditional liverpool style (although everyone was happy when they were bought as they were good players elsewhere).
Shows you dont know hee-haw about liverpool or did not understand the club and its football prior to that Barnes and beardsley era.
Yer just a bandwagon jumper!

I have totally backed up with facts that he was not anti-Irish while he managed Liverpool. He played Houghton for a whole season and didnt sell him until McManaman had established himself. Why would someone who was anti-Irish play an Irishman? Why did he play Whelan so much if he was anti-Irish?

In any event you are the one who alleged he was racist with no facts or evidence to back it up, and you have been beaten to a pulp in this argument!

Loser!

I don't for one minute believe you were a real Liverpool supporter. Perhaps a glory-hunting follower at one stage. But no true supporter would believe that Souness was anti-Irish, because they'd have the knowledge to know otherwise. And certainly no true supporter would give up being a fan just because they'd a crap manager for 2 and a half seasons.

The "sore thumb" bit is hilarious. I wish they'd a few more "sore thumbs" now.

Beardsley was the perfect successor to Dalglish. Obviously not quite as good, but the best around in that position at that time - created buckets of goals for Aldo just as Kenny had for Rushie. And Barnsey was a similar player to Steve Heighway, bombing down the left wing. Except Barnes was better at beating players and scored more goals. And funnily both only rarely produced their club form at international level.

I cannot rem back then regarding the details
but I was hardly looking to dislike them
so there must have been a reason- or reasons

prob the selling of houhton the best in the game at that position to be replaced by the inneffectual mcmanaman
and the sidelining of staunton for the rubbish burrows

I dont have to prove why I thought that
if you cant trust your own opinion what can you trust

I know what you lads are saying and respect that- including hound
but it cannot be proven either way unless you get souness to admit to that - which is highly unlikely

but you cannot rubbish my opinion with what has been said.

sorry lads, the opinion was formed at the time and I fully believe what I thought then.

to make matters worse I hated beardsley and barnes playing for liverpool.
I was a fan of barnsey at watford but he and many others were not 'liverpool players' imo

I was only dealing in facts not opinion. Nowhere did I state that Burrows was better than Staunton.  but previous, but you clearly have no clue that Kenny Dalglish bought Burrows because he wasnt happy with Stan at left back. There are no facts to back up an anti-Irish agenda on behalf on Souness. Whether they were the right decisions or not there were football reasons for selling Houghton and Staunton. If he was anti-Irish why did he continue to play Whelan when he was available? Your earlier post said you remember there were other Irish players he didnt play, and yet they were no other Irish players in the first team squad at that time!

In fairness, saying you hated Beardsley and Barnes when they were at Liverpool and they were not "Liverpool players" shows what a low level of knowledge you have about Liverpool FC (both players played a huge part in Liverpool winning 2 titles in 3 years and both were wonderful attacking players during those years). So its no surprise you're ignorant re the selection and transfer policies of Souness.

["I cannot remeber any other Irish players who souness did not play"]

Thats unbelievable lynchbhoy.

"I cannot remeber any other Irish players who souness did not play"

You can't remember because there werent any!

"but with an unbiased opinion at the time I personally recall his getting rid of all Irish "

Thats great recall you have - he got rid of 2 Irish - Staunton immediately and Houghton after one season. Two out of 10 people he got rid of in one year - and certainly not all the Irish seeing as he did not get rid of Whelan. So you're talking shíte.

Whether either was a mistake or not is open for debate (as with other sales he made), but there were football reasons for both as I mentioned. To say that means it was anti-Irish is total crap.

"I am not a bit biased or in any way makeing it up.
Its no myth."

I'm afraid you are making it up - but you're not the only one. It is one of the myths that those who have no idea about the facts go on about.

Admit you're amazed that he only sold two Irish - because you didnt know the facts.

Admit you're amazed he played Houghton and Whelan almost all the time he was there while they were fit - because you didnt know the facts.

Admit you're amazed there was no other Irishman who he dropped or sold - because you didnt know the facts.

Its certainly a valid opinion to hold that Souness did a poor job as manager of Liverpool.
However, there isnt a shred of evidence to suggest he had an anti-Irish policy while at Liverpool.

Please elaborate lynchbhoy.
What other Irish did Graeme Souness not play?

Let me guess - Ronnie Whelan?
Can you remember why Ronnie didnt play all games under Souness?
I'll tell you why - its because he was always injured.

Ronnie was almost always in the team when fit, especially at first. He was in the team for most of Souness's first season. Scored a very important last minute equalizer v Pompey in the FA Cup semi-final, but went off injured in the replay. He recovered in time for the last league game and Souness put him straight into the team to give him every chance of making the cup final - but he only lasted an hour. Souness couldnt risk him for the final. Whelan realised there was no way he could start the final, but he was naturally very disappointed not to be on the bench. But in those days with limited subs, it was too big a risk for Souness and Ronnie Moran (who was making a lot of the decisions then as Souey had just undergone heart surgery) to take.

Season two though and Ronnie Whelan was back starting in central midfield. Souness started him in the first 10 games of the season, before he got injured again - an injury which sadly ruled him out for the rest of the season.

Season three saw an early injury to Jamie Redknapp which brought Ronnie back into the first team early in the season.  For 6 games in a row it was Molby and Whelan back in the middle of the field, both picked ahead of Don Hutchison who'd played most of the previous season alongside Redknapp. When Redknapp came back who was dropped? Whelan? No. It was Molby - I'm sure this was to the outrage of many conspiratorial perseuction complex holding Danes who said Souness was anti-Denmark. 

However after 4 defeats in 5 games, Whelan was eventually dropped for the first time since Souness took over (quarter-way through his third season in charge). Rising star Robbie Fowler was given his first league start and recent signing Nigel Clough was pushed back into midfield. Whelan got no more starts under Souness. When Souness was sacked he got a few games towards the end of the season, but didnt get a look in the following season as Evans went for Redknapp and Barnes in central midfield - perhaps he was anti-Irish also? 

So for his first two seasons Souness started Whelan every time he was 100% fit - only dropping him in year 3 when results were going from bad to worse and his job was on the line. I can see the definite bias alright   

Remind me of the other Irishman he didnt play who so deserved to be in the team?

As you will note, I did indeed follow Liverpool at that time and strongly believe that anyone who accuses Souness of anti-Irish basis is doing so with no basis whatsoever. I don't remember him doing anything regarding Irish players that I did not agree with at the time. Staunton was never impressive for Liverpool. Not a patch on the previous Irish left back Jim Beglin. Not that Burrows was any better but he did get stuck in more - but it was a toss of a coin. Certainly £1.1m for Staunton made sense at the time when it funded the purchase of a badly needed centre back - Mark Wright.

Ray Houghton played under Souness for most of his first season in charge but didnt have a great season and while still a decent player, at 30 had lost a yard of pace and was past his best. Steve McManamon had just emerged in that season, and finished it with a man of the match performance in the FA Cup final. Clearly McManamon was going to be first choice for the right side of midfield for the following season, so I was not overly surprised when Villa's offer was accepted for Houghton.  I don't think that anyone would argue that Houghton should start ahead of McManaman at that stage in their careers. Certainly Houghton could have done a job as a squad member (as could some of the other guys he sold), but I doubt Ray would have been happy with that.

So I repeat that saying Souness had an anti-Irish policy while at Liverpool because two of the 10 sales he made during his first year in charge were Irishmen is pure nonsense.  A myth probably started by some idiot like Cathal Dervan and perpetuated by sheep who dont know the actual facts.

was following liverpool since 1975 but become disillusioned with them and thair anti Irish policy under souness

Its gas how some myths continue to perpetuate no matter how ridiculous they are.

In Souness's first year in charge he did a big clear-out and sold David Speedie, Peter Beardsley, Steve Staunton, Gary Gillespie, Jimmy Carter, Steve McMahon, Gary Ablett, Glenn Hysen, Ray Houghton and Barry Venison.

Yet because there was two Irishmen in there, and he used to manage Rangers, he's anti-Irish.   

Utter nonsense.

If you want to go into specifics about the Irishmen who left, Souness preferred David Burrows over Stan because he was more a Souness type player, and he got over £1m for Staunton. And Houghton had lost his place on the right to Steve McManamon and so was happy to move on for first team football.

Connell has officially retired from intercounty football.-though he has a lot more than that on his mind at the moment.

...meaning??

Strong line-ups for January.

Interesting that more senior squad members like Sherlock, Ryan and Cosgrove are obviously giving it another year.

Absent as expected are Andrews (retired), Bastick (cruciate) and Whelan (taking a few months off), but also Paddy Chrisite and Senan Connell. I've no idea what their fitness or status is, but it does suggest they've either retired or have effectively been retired by Pillar.

It also seems to confirm that Eric Miller has not been drafted into the panel.

The Dubs Stars is a team made up of supposedly the best club players in the county last year - so it can include non-Dubs, upcoming Dubs, current Dubs and former Dubs.

Used to be called the Blue Stars, no idea why the change of name.

[Personality]

Jeez lads, we're all fair thick considering how close we are to Christmas 

Anyway, it was supposed to be Sports Personality of the Year, therefore as the only two nominated who have a personality it should have been between Bernard Dunne and Darren Clarke - with Dunne deserving of the honours because he achieved more.

By the way, whilie I love Ted Walsh, its a disgrace he was asked to judge a sporting award given he'd never heard of our premier athlete.

My word, the mancs were awful, particularly Scholes, Carrick and Giggs.

Then Ferguson comes out afterwards and says "We played very well" !! Hilarious. I honestly don't know how he keeps a straight face. Its a pity all the interviewers are afraid of their shíte of him. It would have been an ideal time to say:

Would you include Michael Carrick in that analysis? - Your £18 million England midfield maestro and supreme passer. Who you decided to take off when you're 1-0 down and badly in need of a goal and bring on John O'Shea instead!!!

10 bonus points for Sligo !

Here's how that list compares to my statisitical rankings
Indo ranking on left, mine on right:

1 Kerry - 1
2 Tyrone - 2
3 Armagh - 3
4 Mayo - 4
5 Dublin - 5
6 Cork - 7
7 Galway - 11
8 Laois - 6
9 Donegal - 8
10 Derry - 10
11 Offaly - 13
12 Wexford - 15
13 Fermanagh - 9
14 Meath - 14
15 Westmeath - 12
16 Kildare - 22
17 Down - 16
18 Monaghan - 19
19 Louth - 23
20 Limerick - 17
21 Roscommon - 24
22 Cavan - 21
23 Longford - 18
24 Sligo - 20
25 Leitrim - 26
26 Clare - 25
27 Tipperary - 28
28 Antrim - 29
29 Carlow - 27
30 Wicklow - 30
31 Waterford - 31
32 London - 32

1. Why your user name
I forget. I tried to change it to Shinny (where I'm from) for a while, but then that didnt work.

2. Favourite all time game
1983 semi-final replay, Dublin v Cork in Pairc Ui Chaoimh

3. Favourite all time player from your county
Ciaran Whelan, Paddy Christie, Kieran Duff

4. Favourite other poster on gaaboard.com
Hardy the Meath cant, and all the Dubs, apart from the thick lad.

5. Things you'd like to see change on the site.
Ulstermen backing each other up

6. Player from another county you admire.
McDonald, McDonnell

7. Dual players. Should they be allowed do both (why/ why not)
They should be allowed try if they want... but I dont think its feasible at the top level

8. Dublin Hurling, IS there hope? *question for dubs
There's always hope!

9. Best Moment of the year?
The messing re the Hill before the Mayo semi

10. Worst moment of the year?
Lots of people actually believing the Hill incident had anything to do with the result

11. Breasts or bum?
Breasts

12. Breaking ball or park live?
Park live

13. (Situation) Cork v Meath (if from Meath Cavan V Dublin) in an All-ireland final. You have to shout for one or your head will explode. What do you do? *question for dubs
Cork, unless Cork are going for any kind of double, then Meath.

14. DJ Or Eoin Kelly
DJ

15. What  your own county needs to do to win Sam next year?
Just turn up 

16. How do you stop (legally, Meath lads) Kieran Donaghy
Cut off supply by winning midfield and dominating at half back

17. Hopes for 2007.
For the Dubs to reach an All Ireland final

18. Who will win Sam in 2007.
The first and last football games in Croke Park in 2007 will feature the same two teams

19. Who will win Liam in 2007.
Kilkenny

20. Your Gaaboard resolution for 2007.
- keep the rankings up to date
- other than above only post once a month

I wonder will Christie give it another year?

Against big full forwards who arent full of pace (e.g. Donaghy), he'd still be the best man we have to cope. But there arent too many Donaghy's playing full forward at the mo (of course that may change). Most teams don't play traditional full forwards, in which case I'd go with a full back line of SOS, Henry and Griff.

I hear Whelan is giving the league a miss, so there will presumably be some experimentation there. I remember lynchbhoy suggesting Barry Cahill for midfield - I think he'd work out well there.

Donncha Reilly from Skerries might challenge for a wing back position. I hear Peadar has retired due to work committments.....

I hope Jason gives it another year, he still has plenty to offer. But as said above, I'd like to see Vaughan and BBrogan get chances.

[Divisions 1A and 1B]

Does anyone have a link or know for definite how the national leagues will work next year??? I was under the impression that the top four in 1A & 1B go into the new Division 1 and the bottom 4 in 1A & 1B go into Division 2. However on the Slasher thread they're talking about going straight into Division 2 if they finish first or second in 2A!!! Help.....

Divisions 1A and 1B
Top 4 - Division 1
5th and 6th - Division 2
7th and 8th - Division 3

Divisions 2A and 2B
1st and 2nd - Division 2
3rd and 4th - Division 3
Bottom 4 - Division 4

...which all makes sense. You'd expect the top team in 2A to be in a higher division the followinf year than the bottom team in 1A.