Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

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Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

Agree with this

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2021, 12:35:24 AM
Do you think Croke park is a viable location?
How many times a year is Clones used?
Do you not think the second city needs to be 'upgraded'?

- Not really, but it has a long history of being the principal ground of the association.
- Exactly. Why build another?
- Nope.
i usse an speelchekor

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.

Bin the stadium and open a new Roger Casement ward in the RVH.

With the change, hire some county development officers to go around the schools in Antrim coaching youngsters.

Far better use of the money than the white elephant.
i usse an speelchekor

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on August 01, 2021, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.

Bin the stadium and open a new Roger Casement ward in the RVH.

With the change, hire some county development officers to go around the schools in Antrim coaching youngsters.

Far better use of the money than the white elephant.

Coaches go around Ulster you mean.  This isn't an Antrim project , it's Ulster money

twohands!!!

Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.


6th sam

Quote from: twohands!!! on August 01, 2021, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects as it provides opportunities and a sense of achievement which can't be underestimated , but the same would be derived from an injection of cash into grassroots

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 28, 2021, 09:42:42 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on July 28, 2021, 08:13:15 PM
Let the gravy train commence. Will be like Croker where every skanger in the country had their fingers in the pie and it made millions for Sean Quinn despite supplying nothing.
Explain how

Because we are where we are because of shortcuts and generally bad project management. Unfortunately most recent GAA developments have had grease around them.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

Once you sell a big asset like that, it's gone forever. You get a big one-off lump sum, but no more income for all eternity. If you hang onto it, it grows in value into the future while still producing income. I wouldn't be selling off assets like that, especially in the middle of a built-up area.

Silver hill

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 03, 2021, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on August 01, 2021, 10:24:38 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 01, 2021, 09:39:31 AM
I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

Once you sell a big asset like that, it's gone forever. You get a big one-off lump sum, but no more income for all eternity. If you hang onto it, it grows in value into the future while still producing income. I wouldn't be selling off assets like that, especially in the middle of a built-up area.

Unfortunately, a combination of arrogance by the Ulster council in their approach to local residents and internal jockeying for the top job has left us all with the shit show that is Casement in its current state. It's hard to believe there is the political will from any stormont government to cough up 120 odd million  as the GAA sit tight at a capped figure of £15m. The arrogance is off the scale and anyone associated with the 'project' thus far should be asked to seek opportunities elsewhere.
I take no pleasures in predicting that a 35k all seater stadium will never be built as there will not be the funding available to build it. Even if Ulster pony up 30m, there's no chance of 100m+ coming out of government. Have we learnt nothing from the folly in cork. Egos gone mad. Replicate what Ravenhill have at that's more than enough for what's required. If only 20k can get to see an Ulster final due to capacity, then so be it. We need to cut our cloth accordingly and these vanity projects need to be called out for what they are.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

#3114
Good post. Dierdre Hargey on big screen in Croke Park , Mc Geehan tweeting about it and Antrim PRO endorsing it, lick arses everywhere, stinks of desperation

Dougal Maguire

Casement builds for the future. Flagship project which will stand the test of time for years to come. Bring it on.
Careful now

Silver hill

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 04, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Casement builds for the future. Flagship project which will stand the test of time for years to come. Bring it on.

Fair enough, agree with that sentiment but at what point does it become unrealistic from a financial perspective. It's now at 140m and rising by the day with inflation and material costs going through the roof.
If it reaches 200m say, does someone have the balls to say, 'no' doesn't represent value for money and isn't justifiable irrespective of the legacy it might leave?

Cork is the perfect example. Has it made any material change to improve gaa in general in the cork county and city?
Has it brought the prosperity and delivered the add ons that were in all the shiny presentations?

Dougal Maguire

Large projects like this have a long pay back period so it's unfair to judge Pairc Uí Chaoimh as a failure after such a short period of time particularly given the Covid situation. Give it another 10 years at least before casting judgment
Careful now

Milltown Row2

A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 04, 2021, 03:21:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2021, 01:18:44 PM
A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years
I'd agree. There's no point putting too much thought into it now sure if it isn't working out after 10 years you can always unbuild it and get your money back.

Which part of there was no other money other than getting a new Casement built that you don't understand? It was either going into a new Casement or not going anywhere? The size was way too big and no one on here is saying any different..

What's transpired since it being agreed between Ulster council the planning the government has been a shit show. This money was set aside for one thing only. Where will they get the remaining money (if they ever do) who knows, frankly I'm beyond caring TBH

But if its going to be built then why do you actually care?  Really it won't make a bitta difference, we have a new 'home' in Corrigan park to play our county games and it can be developed further, along with our other grounds to have games played at. for the amount of 'fans' that go to games in Antrim the redevelopment of other grounds will provide ample room to watch games
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea