Euro 20/21

Started by rodney trotter, May 19, 2021, 08:11:03 PM

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johnnycool

Quote from: yellowcard on July 14, 2021, 01:10:46 PM
The more staunch England supporters are more often from the smaller industrial towns and cities where supporters don't have a big club side to follow in Europe. Mostly those areas would have been Brexit leaning with a strong sense of English nationalism and all that tends to go with this ie greater propensity for racism, anti immigration etc. One thing that has struck me watching England games in recent years is the absence of Union Jacks at matches. Skip back a couple of decades and you would have seen the England section filled with Union flags whereas now its nearly all St George crosses. I think the hooligan element has subsided but not disappeared completely, there is still an undercurrent of far right supporters bubbling under the surface, just that they find it harder to travel abroad to matches due to increased security and intelligence.   

The small industrial towns where social deprivation and poverty are rife have been told for years by the media that their issues have been caused by immigrants and those pesky Europeans won't allow us to do anything about it.

This racist undercurrent was tapped into for Brexit and was seen as a winning formula and Boris and his crew have kept the myth alive and thrive off it.

They will reap what they sow as the wee man with the sandwich board on in Newtownards would say.

tiempo

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 14, 2021, 11:01:50 AM
Quote from: tiempo on July 14, 2021, 10:56:22 AM
It was all so predictable. Neandertals foaming at the mouth intent on wrecking the place. Sure didn't it happen in Manchester in May when the greatest league in the world had to cancel a game due to the mindless antics of local knuckledraggers.

You've mentioned it already


Englands bid to host the 2030 World Cup on the ropes before it even got off the ground due to the scum behaviour of so called supporters at the weekend. Same type of Neanderthals that broke into Old Trafford in May. The groundball fraternity can't be trusted to behave themselves, pathetic.

So true i sez it twice, my bad

Main Street

#1232
Quote from: weareros on July 12, 2021, 01:56:40 PM
England have no creativity in central midfield. The fact that a safe pass the ball sideways merchant like Declan Rice is worth 75 million says it all. Grealish has creativity but as a winger but he spends more time trying to do over dramatic tumbles at the slightest contact. Italy totally bossed them around the middle of the field. England put so many back, and have a tremendous work rate and press, which makes them very hard to beat. But like a Jack Charlton team they are hard to watch. Won't be anywhere near winning a World Cup, even though can safely say after watching Copa too that the standard of international soccer has gone way down. How we are so off the pace in Ireland is shocking really.
No centre midfield fulcrum, it's a chronic issue for England. When they played Germany in the last 16 at WC  2010,  they had Lamps, Stevie G  Barry and young Milner all in the midfield and still Rooney was not receiving the ball, in fact the only midfield creativity happened when a frustrated  Rooney dropped back to the midfield circle to get on the ball and distribute it. When they played Italy in the Euro 2012  sf, Pirlo ran rings around them all game, found loads of space even when double marked and inflicted a nil nil humiliating defeat,  crowned by  the Panenka.

imtommygunn

All those players were good when playing with good intelligent foreign midfielders but couldn't dictate a game on their own. Lampard needed makele, gerrard Alonso, Barry probably wasn't at that level and even scholes had Keane etc. You could even say the same for terry carvalho, Ferdinand vidic etc. A friend of mine maintains that English players aren't educated in tactics the way players are in the continent. There could be something in it. They never produce midfielders that can dominate possession and a game.

Mario

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2021, 08:27:37 PM
All those players were good when playing with good intelligent foreign midfielders but couldn't dictate a game on their own. Lampard needed makele, gerrard Alonso, Barry probably wasn't at that level and even scholes had Keane etc. You could even say the same for terry carvalho, Ferdinand vidic etc. A friend of mine maintains that English players aren't educated in tactics the way players are in the continent. There could be something in it. They never produce midfielders that can dominate possession and a game.
When Scholes had Keane he was more attacking, when Keane retired Scholes dictated many games in the PL and CL, sitting deep taking passes off ferdinand and spraying passes. He retired in 04 from international football as Sven was playing him left wing. Capello asked him to the 2010 wc but he turned him down. I think he would have been the answer to England problem in 2010 if he had returned.

imtommygunn

Scholes is maybe more of an exception. Not sure he would have truly dominated games but more likely to do it than the others but I think it is telling that it is so rare an English player can do it yet the likes of Spain and Italy constantly knock out much better midfielders.

Armagh18

Quote from: Mario on July 14, 2021, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2021, 08:27:37 PM
All those players were good when playing with good intelligent foreign midfielders but couldn't dictate a game on their own. Lampard needed makele, gerrard Alonso, Barry probably wasn't at that level and even scholes had Keane etc. You could even say the same for terry carvalho, Ferdinand vidic etc. A friend of mine maintains that English players aren't educated in tactics the way players are in the continent. There could be something in it. They never produce midfielders that can dominate possession and a game.
When Scholes had Keane he was more attacking, when Keane retired Scholes dictated many games in the PL and CL, sitting deep taking passes off ferdinand and spraying passes. He retired in 04 from international football as Sven was playing him left wing. Capello asked him to the 2010 wc but he turned him down. I think he would have been the answer to England problem in 2010 if he had returned.
Scholes was on another level to any midfielder England ever produced bar Gazza.

thewobbler

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2021, 09:46:54 PM
Scholes is maybe more of an exception. Not sure he would have truly dominated games but more likely to do it than the others but I think it is telling that it is so rare an English player can do it yet the likes of Spain and Italy constantly knock out much better midfielders.

and yet none of Hoddle, Keegan of Erikson could see for to cement him into their midfield, while Fergie regularly benched him in European matches.

Scholes was a very good player. But there's been an awful lot of history rewriting about his presence, consistency and game management since he retired. He's attained a mythological status at this stage, which personally I find barmy.

From the Bunker

Scholes was a top player. Being English he'd get a bit of extra hype, but his shy demeanour kept him from being seen as a fancy-dan player and kept him under the public radar. So he often got away with stuff that a player like Beckham would never get away with.

Oh yeah, for a midfielder - he had a shite tackle!

johnnycool

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 14, 2021, 11:24:59 PM
Scholes was a top player. Being English he'd get a bit of extra hype, but his shy demeanour kept him from being seen as a fancy-dan player and kept him under the public radar. So he often got away with stuff that a player like Beckham would never get away with.

Oh yeah, for a midfielder - he had a shite tackle!

I liked Scholesy as a player, he was neat and tidy on the ball, but was easily bullied off it and shíte is being kind, he put in a few downright dangerous tackles in his day.

He was good but I wouldn't consider him great.

Boycey

You don't stay in the engine room of a top team for 12/13 years by being good. Fantastic player was Scholes, a decent shout for best English player in the Premier League era.

TabClear

Quote from: Boycey on July 15, 2021, 10:00:18 AM
You don't stay in the engine room of a top team for 12/13 years by being good. Fantastic player was Scholes, a decent shout for best English player in the Premier League era.

Would agree with that. Scholes was unreal in his prime. HIs tackling on the other hand.....

quit yo jibbajabba

#1242
He was a nasty little bugger. The tackling was a big laugh in the game but some were downright nasty. Illiterate so and so also, talks like hes got a moutful of marbles

Edit - walked out on his country too just because he couldnt get his favourite position. Wasnt good enough to dislodge stevie or frank. Took lessons from Keane on that one id say

trueblue1234

He was a class act. Him, Gerrard, Beckham and Lampard were some midfield to try and squeeze together. I would have Gerrard and Scholes slightly ahead of Lampard and Beckham.

But yes Scholes tackling will be remembered every bit as much as his skill. Horrific tackler.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Armagh18

Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on July 15, 2021, 10:50:51 AM
He was a nasty little bugger. The tackling was a big laugh in the game but some were downright nasty. Illiterate so and so also, talks like hes got a moutful of marbles

Edit - walked out on his country too just because he couldnt get his favourite position. Wasnt good enough to dislodge stevie or frank. Took lessons from Keane on that one id say
Stevie and Frank put together couldnt lace his boots or Keanes ffs.