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Messages - seafoid

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1
General discussion / Re: Northern Ireland The Centenary of OWC
« on: September 16, 2021, 05:35:25 PM »
Probably the only centenary.
Partition has been a disaster.


2
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 15, 2021, 08:11:39 PM »
It'll be interesting to see next year can Tyrone finally do 2 years back-to-back. Even getting to the final in consecutive years would be a new horizon for them. Cavan and Down are the only 2 Ulster counties who've managed to retain Sam Maguire so it's now 60 years since an Ulster county has done so.

Good teams win Sam Maguire. Great teams retain Sam Maguire.

Tyrone would have a long way to go to be spoken off in the echelons of Ulster aristocracy.

Tyrone are one behind Cavan & Down in titles. They'll soon be overtaking them !

Cavan won their last Sam in the 50s and owe their success to the establishment of Norn Irn , the shock that followed and the lack of competition in Ulster. So Tyrone may pass them out.

Down are different. They didn't require any artificial political stimulants. They won't be stuck on 5. If Tyrone pass them out they will respond in due course.

Did Tyrone ever beat Dublin in an all Ireland final ? For  connoisseurs of the game, beating  Dublin would rate well above beating Armagh and Mayo.

3
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 15, 2021, 01:51:18 PM »
That's a very honest article by McStay, have always thought he was one of the better pundits working in the media and he has walked the line so has seen the GAA from every side.

He makes particularly good points about how Mayo seem to produce an abundance of athletic running type footballers but very few final third finishers. Also raised an interesting statistic about how Mayo had 8 wides, a missed penalty and 2 balls dropped short in the final third of the match. That is a meltdown of bad decision making by anybodys standards.

I'm also glad that somebody from within Mayo football has finally had a go back at Brolly after he stuck the boot in again the morning after an AI final defeat. He needs to be challenged on those personal attacks but a lot are afraid to get drawn in and speak out about it.

Where was McStay's statement on the personal abuse brolly doled out to Cavanagh a few years ago? Not much use calling out that type of personal attack only when it hits close to home. He has had amble opportunities and a TV platform to call Brolly out previously but failed to do so.

Ah now ! A lot of people in fairness called out Brolly for his attack on Cavanagh, I think that was the start of his downfall in RTÉ .

Fact is, he has become a lot more insidious and nasty in relation to Mayo footballers in the recent past.
These are young men who are amateurs , not Premiership footballers where they have a fat salary to go with the abuse.

They are the easy target for losing a number of finals. Narcissists do that, pick on easy prey. You have to wonder if Brollys personal insults/attacks is to disguise the lack of success in his own career as a county footballer. His record doesn’t stand up to other pundits like Spillane, O’Rourke, Tomas O’Se, Cooper.

Whatever about Mayo’s failures to get over the line, they have come back year after year, regularly competing for AI’s. They are amateurs, giving their time and effort, and have given their supporters some great days. Some heartbreaking ones too. But I’d love for us to be competing annually in the latter stages like Mayo.
Getting to finals is great but losing them repeatedly is not


Mullane

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1198446/

I find it's very difficult, even doing the
radio, in around the All-Ireland finals," the De La Salle man said.

"You do be saying, 'Jesus I would have loved to have gotten over the line just once'.

"It's a nice second or a nice third after winning a Munster Championship, but I would give up all five of them for one All-Ireland medal. It's the ultimate prize at the end of the day.



4
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 15, 2021, 04:25:35 AM »
Jonny Doyle is a fella I like listening to on the podcasts. A fine player, plenty of insight and just a good feel for the game and the players.  It would be great to see some new faces.  It’s tiresome watching Spillane and Kavanagh interrupt each other. O’Rourke, McStay and Whelan couldn’t complain if fresh faces came in.
Johnny Doyle is excelleny but he may be needed in the Kildarw management team

5
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 14, 2021, 11:20:32 AM »
Ciarán McDonald is one of the trainers. You would imagine that, given enough time, he could produce a procession of decent forwards

6
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 14, 2021, 06:34:36 AM »
Cavan declined quite a bit in that year, but there are 7 Ulster teams in the top half and Antrim have moved off the bottom in Ulster.
Cavan did a scenic tour of all the divisions. For a few
years they were tracking Roscommon in bouncing up and down between D1 and D2
 but they went their own way to explore D3 and D4

7
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 09:27:39 PM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches

8
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 08:00:16 PM »
Look at the table below (last final in brackets).

In the last 50 years:

Kerry have been in 24 finals, losing 9 (2019)
Dublin have been in 20, losing 7 (2020)
Mayo have been in 11, losing 11 (2021)
Cork have been in 9 finals, losing 6 (2010)
Meath have been in 7, losing 3 (2001)
Tyrone have been in 7, losing 3 (2021)
Galway have been in 7 finals, losing 5 (2001)
Offaly have been in 4, losing 1 (1982)
Down have been in 3, losing 1 (2010)
Donegal have been in 3, losing 1 (2014)
Armagh have been in 3, losing 2 (2003)
Derry has been in 1, losing 0 (1993)
Roscommon have been in 1, losing 1 (1980)

It is very difficult to make it to an All Ireland final. In the last 50 years only 13 counties by my reckoning have reached All-Ireland finals. Outside of Dublin and Kerry, no-one has made it to more than Mayo. 

They have lost them all (shocking), but look at Meath, Galway, Cork - big beasts of the football world and 20 year gaps since the last appearance (and getting longer).  Bad and all as the last 10 years have been for Mayo, they have been at the top table and they have given a lot of joy (and heartache) to their followers. 

However, as Galway and Meath have found out, your place at the top table is not guaranteed. Some year, they won't bounce back and could very well slip into mediocrity.
Interesting. Ultimately every final has a loser. The 2 sides have to balance. Without Mayo the losses would have been distributed anongst the other teams.
In 89 Cork beat Mayo. They have the next worst record.

10
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 05:17:02 PM »
I don't think there was a turning point. The Tyrone backs were already dominant in the 1st half

11
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 03:22:09 PM »
Tyrone were more efficient

Mayo missed 4 goal chances.
Tyrone's subs were better
Mayo had more passengers.

https://youtu.be/aPf92gtptFE

12
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 03:02:18 PM »
Jack O’Se missed a penalty in an All Ireland Final.  Even the greatest players struggle with penalties in gaelic, it is by no means a gimme.  I’m sure there’s a stat somewhere showing the conversion rate.

Charlie Redmond missed three crucial penalties in big finals, two of them All Irelands. Whether or not you think he was a great player, he was an elite placed ball specialist.
Redmond was not an elite penalty taker. His penalties were woejus, he seemed to completely lose the head and have no plan for what to do. As did other Dublin players of the time who took penalties.

Trevor Giles was also a free taking specialist and missed two penalties in All-Irelands. He also scored one. Against Mayo, of course.
I preferred it when the Dubs were slipshod.
That 95 all Ireland after 4 years of agony was sponsored by St Jude

13
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 02:02:23 PM »
To echo a point made earlier..   its amazing that Tyrone beat  Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo on the way to wining an AI and all many of the pundits can talk about is how poor Mayo and Kerry were.

I think pundits do this to excuse their pre-match predictions if they were wrong
ie "I said Mayo would win and I would have been correct if x, y, z didn't happen"

Fans of both sides will naturally focus more on their team - what could have been better, while ignoring (or partly glossing over) the same type of what-ifs for the opposition.

Or sometimes teams actually do beat themselves and lose a game they should have won hands down. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two big championship games in recent years where Tyrone beat themselves rather than have the opposition do it for them - 2010 against Dublin and 2016 against Mayo. They should have had both of those in their pockets and conspired to throw them away with ridiculous profligacy. That's what Mayo did on Saturday.

Don't agree that Mayo beat themselves on Saturday, in the sense that (bar the very early stages), they were never dominant or ahead in the match and contrived to throw away a good lead. Sure, they missed chances they should have taken, but that's no guarantee it would have swung the momentum back their way.

I always have a bit of a blindspot towards Tyrone in that I never rate them too highly; they really rode their luck in the semis against a Kerry team that showed more accuracy in shooting their feet instead of at the posts and I don't think they've ever mounted a great defence the following season when champions. Also, they got lucky off the breaks in the first half with the long kickouts and the first goal was really poor goalkeeping. However, not rating them is my failing, not theirs. Defensively, they gave an enviable masterclass on Saturday. I guess their longer odds for next year is more a reflection of the (presumably) longer, tougher route through Ulster they face than anything else.

Around 60% of all Irelands are won by the Dublin and Kerry franchises.
Maybe this year is seen as similar to the 2013 hurling . A free all Ireland

 Normal service to be resumed next year.
Neither Kerry nor Dublin have many obstacles on the way to the semis.

14
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 12:27:04 PM »
Fatalism is a feature of teams in all sports.
Schalke will always lose to Bayern.

But on the other hand psychologically dominant teams can weaken.

https://youtu.be/fG5ktdCndpU
Or else Mayo can beat an even weaker team in a final.

15
GAA Discussion / Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« on: September 13, 2021, 11:41:42 AM »
Various bits from the Irish Times

Ten of the players Tyrone used against Mayo had been beaten out the gate by Dublin in 2018. Back then, it looked like Jim Gavin was building a forever empire and the idea that Tyrone – risk-averse, massed defence, one-man-up Tyrone – would be the ones to finally bring the Dubs’ All-Ireland streak to an end would have seemed preposterous. 
But they did it. 

“The question I would say is: why do you have to wait a year or two,” explained Dooher before the team departed Croke Park on Saturday evening. 
“You only get one chance and you make the most of it whenever you can. Let’s face it, we had the rub of the green at times and we needed it. Particularly the semi-final, when we used up a right bit of luck. And today, too, we used up a right bit of it. But the way we look at it is: don’t wait until tomorrow. You know, do what you can today. And don’t put off anything that you can do today. And them boys did that. You never know. You might never be back again in an All-Ireland final. And you have to grasp that opportunity.” 

 

Harte is a nephew of Mickey Harte, the manager of Tyrone’s first three All-Ireland wins. He is also a son-in-law of Peter Canavan, the county’s most celebrated Gaelic football player. He is immersed in a culture of All-Ireland winning know-how. 

“No goals, no goals! That was the big thing,” says Logan when asked what went through his mind as the clock ran down. 

“There does come a tipping point in the line when you think ‘you know what, we might be home,’ but then you’re even afraid to think that, because we’ve all had our shocks in football matches. So no goals was the big thing, and just who was out on their feet, and had we anybody left to put in. 
“So essentially that, and the same principles apply to all matches.” 

Tyrone stretched their lead in every quarter. They had greater composure on the ball and without it. 

Mayo had possession and won the battle of the restarts - as did Kerry in the semi-final - but they struggled to execute what chances they created. In fact they did at times what former captain Andy Moran had warned about, running the ball at the Tyrone defence and into trouble. 

Aidan O’Shea saw a good bit of ball but often didn’t have the option of support attackers running off him and was fairly quickly shut down and rendered ineffective. The great Mayo conundrum of how best to deploy him isn’t getting any easier to solve. 

 

Tyrone stretched their lead in every quarter. They had greater composure on the ball and without it. 

Mayo had possession and won the battle of the restarts - as did Kerry in the semi-final - but they struggled to execute what chances they created. In fact they did at times what former captain Andy Moran had warned about, running the ball at the Tyrone defence and into trouble. 

 

Mayo had nearly the same number of turnovers and some smart tackling and dispossessions - Pádraig O’Hora’s hand in on Mattie Donnelly 10 minutes into the second half for instance - but they had nothing like the same intensity on the ball. 

Tyrone’s tackle count dwarfed their opponent’s - by more than two to one or according to Sky Sports statistics three to one. 


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