AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain

[JoG2]

What do the Mayo posters think of Horan?

I think out of the 4 Finals where he's been in charge in 3 of them he's not come out of it looking too good.

Agreed, hes not the man to win it. I said there was probably no point in him coming back if he hadn't changed the very obvious flaws that he had, on top of alot of good dont get me wrong. His flaws:
1. Having no tactical plan for the opposition, just play "our way" that works to a point but will always be found out eventually
2. Refusing to listen to anyone else, you could see it again Saturday, selectors giving him advice and he just ignoring it. Who does that? I expect some of them to walk away now.
I cant for the life of me, well I probably know its because JH is too stubborn, why the f**k didnt he look for some help from Stephen Rochford? Hes the only man who has actually got us to the point of having a legitimate chance of winning it and is Mr Tactics. If he had been invited to contribute to a tactical plan and been listened to, Mayo would have won on Saturday.
Aidan O'Shea on Kieran Donaghy? JH wouldn't do that in a million years.

Did you fancy Mayo with such a big turn over in personal (and no COC for 1 championship) to reach the last 2 finals on the bounce? I certainly didn't, but they did with Horan at the helm.
It's been mentioned on here several times since the 2 semis and finals, win a tight knock out game and you're great, lose and you're shite.

[iorras]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

[JoG2]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

Phenomenal, and then the bit in bold. That's your opinion. COC back next year, Doherty too, the forwards a year wiser.

[tbrick18]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

Phenomenal, and then the bit in bold. That's your opinion. COC back next year, Doherty too, the forwards a year wiser.

My issue with JH is that he seems to make some very poor decisions on the line when they are under pressure.
Taking O'Hora off when he was one of the few Mayo players pushing up seemed bizarre to me.
He doesn't seem to know where or how to play O'Se and only seems to have a plan A in terms of how they approach each game.

But realistically, who would you replace him with that is an improvement? He obviously prepares them very well and is consistent enough to keep them in that top bracket of teams.
It's difficult to know where to go from a Mayo perspective. They should improve over the next year or two, with COC back and some more maturity from the new guys, so who knows! Perhaps they need to refresh or add to the backroom team? Or perhaps they just need some more time.

[The Trap]

Been reading and listening about the final a lot and the narrative is that Mayo had 4 goal chances taking none and Tyrone had 2 and took both.
Conor Loftus should have picked the ball up and scored his but what a clearance from Sludden. McCurry had his first goal chance but what a save from Hennelly. O'shea"s was a half chance and no better than the shot saved from Canavan near the end and the rebound fisted over by McCurry.
Tommy Conroy ran through and shot for goal while from a similar position canavan fisted over. Mayo also had the penalty......so by my reckoning Tyrone had 5 goal chance and scored 2 2!

[Taylor]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

Phenomenal, and then the bit in bold. That's your opinion. COC back next year, Doherty too, the forwards a year wiser.

My issue with JH is that he seems to make some very poor decisions on the line when they are under pressure.
Taking O'Hora off when he was one of the few Mayo players pushing up seemed bizarre to me.
He doesn't seem to know where or how to play O'Se and only seems to have a plan A in terms of how they approach each game.

But realistically, who would you replace him with that is an improvement? He obviously prepares them very well and is consistent enough to keep them in that top bracket of teams.
It's difficult to know where to go from a Mayo perspective. They should improve over the next year or two, with COC back and some more maturity from the new guys, so who knows! Perhaps they need to refresh or add to the backroom team? Or perhaps they just need some more time.

I get your point in bold however he made a call by taking of AOS in the semi and look how that turned out?

[Armagh18]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

Phenomenal, and then the bit in bold. That's your opinion. COC back next year, Doherty too, the forwards a year wiser.

My issue with JH is that he seems to make some very poor decisions on the line when they are under pressure.
Taking O'Hora off when he was one of the few Mayo players pushing up seemed bizarre to me.
He doesn't seem to know where or how to play O'Se and only seems to have a plan A in terms of how they approach each game.

But realistically, who would you replace him with that is an improvement? He obviously prepares them very well and is consistent enough to keep them in that top bracket of teams.
It's difficult to know where to go from a Mayo perspective. They should improve over the next year or two, with COC back and some more maturity from the new guys, so who knows! Perhaps they need to refresh or add to the backroom team? Or perhaps they just need some more time.

I get your point in bold however he made a call by taking of AOS in the semi and look how that turned out?

And then didnt do the same thing in the final and look what happened...

[Blowitupref]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

The last year without Horan as manager ended in a qualifier defeat to Kildare. That's where Mayo could go again when thinking about a manager change.

[Keyser soze]

Kevin McStay

Here's a story. O'Shea lost his fifth final on Saturday, December 19th, 2020. He didn't score. Dublin won with no undue fuss. On Monday, January 18th 2021 a friend of mine had a meeting with a sports consultant in the Sism gym in Castlebar. It is run by a member of the Mayo backroom team. It was a wet damp old morning and as he went into the office, my friend spotted O'Shea doing a weights session. He had started back the week before. People don't see that side of it. He has been doing this for a decade. Joe doesn't see that. Up to recently, Aidan O'Shea hadn't missed a game for Mayo in 10 years. I imagine that he won't miss many next summer either.

Does he not realise how bad that makes O'Shea look? All that effort and he hasn't improved one bit as a player since 2012.

''Trying is the first step toward failure'' Homer Simpson[/b]

This seem to be your motto.

Thats bollocks mate.

Homer in fact said  'if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing'

He may have said both quotes.

Homer also said   'it's ironic that your username is sensethetone and you completely missed the flippant nature of that post' ;-) 

[sensethetone]

Kevin McStay

Here's a story. O'Shea lost his fifth final on Saturday, December 19th, 2020. He didn't score. Dublin won with no undue fuss. On Monday, January 18th 2021 a friend of mine had a meeting with a sports consultant in the Sism gym in Castlebar. It is run by a member of the Mayo backroom team. It was a wet damp old morning and as he went into the office, my friend spotted O'Shea doing a weights session. He had started back the week before. People don't see that side of it. He has been doing this for a decade. Joe doesn't see that. Up to recently, Aidan O'Shea hadn't missed a game for Mayo in 10 years. I imagine that he won't miss many next summer either.

Does he not realise how bad that makes O'Shea look? All that effort and he hasn't improved one bit as a player since 2012.

''Trying is the first step toward failure'' Homer Simpson[/b]

This seem to be your motto.

Thats bollocks mate.

Homer in fact said  'if something's hard to do, it's not worth doing'

He may have said both quotes.

Homer also said   'it's ironic that your username is sensethetone and you completely missed the flippant nature of that post' ;-)

I still think he said both..

[iorras]

No-one is saying JH is shite, but what is Mayo about at this stage if its not about winning Sam?
3 finals he has done exactly the same thing, he is a phenomenal manager, hes just not going to win it with Mayo so whats the point.

Phenomenal, and then the bit in bold. That's your opinion. COC back next year, Doherty too, the forwards a year wiser.

Well he is phenomenal to be fair to him, his record by any standard is just that. Semi finals in each of his years, but hes got an issue with tactics and his teams have completely underperformed in 3 finals now. Rochford lost 2 but had the team very well prepared tactically and I think the general consensus was that most of those teams performed to the peak of their powers on the day. Thats all you can ask. It looks like JH will keep the team in the top 3 to 4 but he wont win it. Its been 70 fecken years, 3rd or 4th is no good anymore.

[pjm]

Kevin McStay

Here's a story. O'Shea lost his fifth final on Saturday, December 19th, 2020. He didn't score. Dublin won with no undue fuss. On Monday, January 18th 2021 a friend of mine had a meeting with a sports consultant in the Sism gym in Castlebar. It is run by a member of the Mayo backroom team. It was a wet damp old morning and as he went into the office, my friend spotted O'Shea doing a weights session. He had started back the week before. People don't see that side of it. He has been doing this for a decade. Joe doesn't see that. Up to recently, Aidan O'Shea hadn't missed a game for Mayo in 10 years. I imagine that he won't miss many next summer either.

Does he not realise how bad that makes O'Shea look? All that effort and he hasn't improved one bit as a player since 2012.

''Trying is the first step toward failure'' Homer Simpson

This seem to be your motto.

was thinking the very same. O'Shea should put the weights down, join this forum and pretend he's from Dublin. Time better spent by the sounds of it.

One thing that struck me about O'Shea when i watched it back; second half throw in, he wins a free - but instead of dropping it and leaving it for someone else, while he goes forward to where the ball might land, he tries an outside the boot kick which goes 40 yards to a Tyrone defender with no Mayo man within 10 yards of the ball.
Not a surprise, he is not a good kicker of the ball - but why oh why did he even try to kick it.
Every f*cking time - and that is before we get to his ability slowing the ball down when he gets it, always taking a hop and solo as he has no idea what to do with it.
Also, at one stage in H1, he gets a pass back on his own 14 - so of course off he sets soloing it out of defence like Keith Higgins without the pace but it looks great to the uninitiated, and then is wrecked by the time he gets to midfield and paws it off.
Less gym and more ball and speed would be the way for Aidan.

[iorras]

AOS just needed to look to his left for that free, Conor Loftus was unmarked out on the wing, simple 20 yard pass was on, he never looked, queue boost to Tyrone, they are on the attack.

[Dubhaltach]

What do the Mayo posters think of Horan?

I think out of the 4 Finals where he's been in charge in 3 of them he's not come out of it looking too good.

Frustration is the word I'd use. There's no doubting Horan's strengths as a manager, great at developing young players, great at instilling confidence in a group, great at getting buy-in from the players.

But when it comes to learning from mistakes....

The scorelines Mayo have conceded in the 4 finals that he's been in charge look like this:

2021: 2-14
2020: 2-14
2013: 2-12
2012: 2-11

Dublin conceded too many goals in the 2014 semi final loss to Donegal. They sure as f**k wern't going to make that mistake again and from that day on they made sure they always had an extra defender back blocking that central channel.

Unless Horan fundamentally changes his tactical approach and implements a proper system that prevents goals then we are not going to get over the line. Unfortunately I just can't see Horan changing at this point.

He's given us some unbelievable days over the last decade but at this stage I have no interest in getting to another final unless we are going to win the f**cking thing.

[lenny]

What do the Mayo posters think of Horan?

I think out of the 4 Finals where he's been in charge in 3 of them he's not come out of it looking too good.

Frustration is the word I'd use. There's no doubting Horan's strengths as a manager, great at developing young players, great at instilling confidence in a group, great at getting buy-in from the players.

But when it comes to learning from mistakes....

The scorelines Mayo have conceded in the 4 finals that he's been in charge look like this:

2021: 2-14
2020: 2-14
2013: 2-12
2012: 2-11

Dublin conceded too many goals in the 2014 semi final loss to Donegal. They sure as f**k wern't going to make that mistake again and from that day on they made sure they always had an extra defender back blocking that central channel.

Unless Horan fundamentally changes his tactical approach and implements a proper system that prevents goals then we are not going to get over the line. Unfortunately I just can't see Horan changing at this point.

He's given us some unbelievable days over the last decade but at this stage I have no interest in getting to another final unless we are going to win the f**cking thing.

The biggest problem I'd see is the lack of ability to finish off clear cut goal chances.  A penalty miss, a tap in from 7 or 8 yards out missed by loftus, conroy's miss when he should've steadied himself and O'Shea failing to throw an easy dummy to give himself a tap in. Any 2 of those would've been enough to give Mayo a winning score. When I think of Mayo I always think the weakness is in the forwards. If you become more defensive it just takes away more from a weak forward line.