A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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BennyCake

Nowadays, people will vote with their wallet.

A century ago, a hell of a lot of people were piss poor and living in squalid conditions and voting for Independence would have been a formality, as they'd still be piss poor no matter if they were under a Dublin government or a London government.

Armagh18

Quote from: BennyCake on May 04, 2021, 05:33:49 PM
Nowadays, people will vote with their wallet.

A century ago, a hell of a lot of people were piss poor and living in squalid conditions and voting for Independence would have been a formality, as they'd still be piss poor no matter if they were under a Dublin government or a London government.
You'll not be any poorer in a UI than you are now anyway.

seafoid

Very interesting article in the Irish times re the NI deficit of £9.4bn. About £3bn is iro pensions which London has to pay.
Net result is estimated at 2-3 bn in a UI situation.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/northern-ireland-s-9-4bn-subvention-and-the-cost-of-irish-unity-1.4553553

Food banks in NI are one very strong argument against the status quo. NI has more economically vulnerable people than the South and in the UK ultra economically vulnerable people get food banks.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

https://www.ft.com/content/d40a9f1a-fc56-44dd-b4c4-967a6b107ade

By almost every measure, Northern Ireland is starting from a low base. A research paper published by economists at Trinity College Dublin in 2019 charted decades of inadequate spending on education and infrastructure, a failure to attract inward investment, and a largely one-way flow of talent from the region.

The result has been economic underperformance relative to the UK and the Irish Republic for much of Northern Ireland's first century, despite massive subsidies from the British government and a surge in state jobs in areas such as defence and security.
"I think [Northern Ireland] will probably continue to underperform," said John FitzGerald, co-author of the Trinity paper and former chief economist at Ireland's Economic and Social Research Institute, a think-tank.

His and others' research found that education has been the biggest barrier to Northern Ireland's prosperity: the result of policies segregating Catholics and Protestants at school along with lower spending, as funding was consumed by defence and housing.
But a senior executive at a large multinational that has spent billions in Ireland, and who could see advantages in Northern Ireland's post-Brexit status, said the relentless negativity of Stormont messaging surrounding the new trading arrangements was one of the reasons the region was uninvestable.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

BennyCake

Quote from: Armagh18 on May 04, 2021, 05:40:29 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 04, 2021, 05:33:49 PM
Nowadays, people will vote with their wallet.

A century ago, a hell of a lot of people were piss poor and living in squalid conditions and voting for Independence would have been a formality, as they'd still be piss poor no matter if they were under a Dublin government or a London government.
You'll not be any poorer in a UI than you are now anyway.

You can't be sure of that.

Rossfan

https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/irishnews/irishnews//news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/06/news/sdlp-launches-new-ireland-commission-panel-looking-at-economy-education-and-health-2312463/content.html
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM


armaghniac

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

dublin7

Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

smelmoth

Quote from: dublin7 on June 15, 2021, 08:01:47 PM
Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

God knows.

They absolutely should appoint and move on.

SF should not block appointments. The precedent would be extremely dangerous and do nobody any good.

If ILA is the point of principle then do the work on an ILA and bring it forward. There is no point of principle grandstanding that SF might want to do that they couldn't do down the line.

DUP should do the proper committee work on whatever draft comes forward.

I'd say DUP would be bucked in any near term election. The longer term outlook would only be moderately better.

Any election will be about the protocol. The biggest issue will be sabre rattling on the protocol and how that shakes down the unionist votes. Not sure there would be much change in the nationalist vote other than if a few can see that Alliance have a chance of winning seats that wouldn't in the past then there might be a few first time Alliance voters from the nationalist ranks

general_lee

Quote from: smelmoth on June 15, 2021, 08:22:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on June 15, 2021, 08:01:47 PM
Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

God knows.

They absolutely should appoint and move on.

SF should not block appointments. The precedent would be extremely dangerous and do nobody any good.

If ILA is the point of principle then do the work on an ILA and bring it forward. There is no point of principle grandstanding that SF might want to do that they couldn't do down the line.

DUP should do the proper committee work on whatever draft comes forward.

I'd say DUP would be bucked in any near term election. The longer term outlook would only be moderately better.

Any election will be about the protocol. The biggest issue will be sabre rattling on the protocol and how that shakes down the unionist votes. Not sure there would be much change in the nationalist vote other than if a few can see that Alliance have a chance of winning seats that wouldn't in the past then there might be a few first time Alliance voters from the nationalist ranks
I would 100% vote for AP in Upper Bann if it meant ousting Carla Lockhart

smelmoth

Quote from: general_lee on June 15, 2021, 10:59:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 15, 2021, 08:22:41 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on June 15, 2021, 08:01:47 PM
Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

God knows.

They absolutely should appoint and move on.

SF should not block appointments. The precedent would be extremely dangerous and do nobody any good.

If ILA is the point of principle then do the work on an ILA and bring it forward. There is no point of principle grandstanding that SF might want to do that they couldn't do down the line.

DUP should do the proper committee work on whatever draft comes forward.

I'd say DUP would be bucked in any near term election. The longer term outlook would only be moderately better.

Any election will be about the protocol. The biggest issue will be sabre rattling on the protocol and how that shakes down the unionist votes. Not sure there would be much change in the nationalist vote other than if a few can see that Alliance have a chance of winning seats that wouldn't in the past then there might be a few first time Alliance voters from the nationalist ranks
I would 100% vote for AP in Upper Bann if it meant ousting Carla Lockhart
Definitely think that will feature.

But also don't rule out the fact that in a lot of constituencies AP might be the party of first choice for some individuals but they didn't think AP could get elected. That is beginning to change

Rossfan

And right on cue the day after Leo talks about a new United Ireland  Beattie says now is not the right time to be talking about it.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

93-DY-SAM

Quote from: Rossfan on June 16, 2021, 12:50:37 PM
And right on cue the day after Leo talks about a new United Ireland  Beattie says now is not the right time to be talking about it.

There will never be a right time for Unionists to talk about it. Similar to a child sticking their fingers in their ears not wanting to listen to what is going on around them only for everyone else to have moved on. Then they'll cry they were not involved.