Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[thewobbler]

I'm sure I've mentioned it before on this thread. But to go again.

The league offers team natural progression and (mostly) a relevant standard of football.

A championship cannot do this. No matter how you dress it up, for the smaller and weaker counties, the reaper will swing his scythe before it gets interesting.

We do not need 32 counties in the AISF Championship. 16 would be plenty. And the league should be used to determine which 16.

But more importantly we do NOT need a Championship for the bottom 16 teams. For the simple reason that these players can all return immediately to club football, and many, many of them will.

Which means that any "intermediate" county success will always be tarnished by the fact that it'll be a competition in which a lot counties/players have no desire to compete. Everyone will know this and it will have a knock on effect of diluting its integrity further and further each year. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't produce a sprinkling of success stories and happy memories. But ultimately, so does club football - which often time would be better attended, higher profile and more competitive.

How can I be so confident about this?

It's simple enough. History. The problems with AI B championships and Tommy Murphy cups was never marketing, and always player interest. The lure of playing competitive top flight club football is simply too strong compared to the lure of playing lower rung county football.

People need to stop making fantasy stories in their head about how Louth or Antrim's footballers will do anything for a day out in Croke Park, and realise that the drive to play football comes from competition, not venues.

So you're suggesting a single tier championship with 16 teams and that the bottom 16 sides will only play League football?

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that the championship would then become an extension / culmination of the league, and to reach the knockout stages you must have a successful league run.

There'd be at least 2 changes in the the knockout qualifying teams every year.

This is a format that will work.

[Rossfan]

Maybe it's a long blip
Sligo were very competitive in the 2001 to 2010 decade and could regularly make the BIG 3 sweat.

[yellowcard]

I'm sure I've mentioned it before on this thread. But to go again.

The league offers team natural progression and (mostly) a relevant standard of football.

A championship cannot do this. No matter how you dress it up, for the smaller and weaker counties, the reaper will swing his scythe before it gets interesting.

We do not need 32 counties in the AISF Championship. 16 would be plenty. And the league should be used to determine which 16.

But more importantly we do NOT need a Championship for the bottom 16 teams. For the simple reason that these players can all return immediately to club football, and many, many of them will.

Which means that any "intermediate" county success will always be tarnished by the fact that it'll be a competition in which a lot counties/players have no desire to compete. Everyone will know this and it will have a knock on effect of diluting its integrity further and further each year. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't produce a sprinkling of success stories and happy memories. But ultimately, so does club football - which often time would be better attended, higher profile and more competitive.

How can I be so confident about this?

It's simple enough. History. The problems with AI B championships and Tommy Murphy cups was never marketing, and always player interest. The lure of playing competitive top flight club football is simply too strong compared to the lure of playing lower rung county football.

People need to stop making fantasy stories in their head about how Louth or Antrim's footballers will do anything for a day out in Croke Park, and realise that the drive to play football comes from competition, not venues.

So you're suggesting a single tier championship with 16 teams and that the bottom 16 sides will only play League football?

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that the championship would then become an extension / culmination of the league, and to reach the knockout stages you must have a successful league run.

There'd be at least 2 changes in the the knockout qualifying teams every year.

This is a format that will work.

I can see your point in terms of the difficulty in getting player buy in for a second tier championship but I think it needs to be at least properly trialed in parallel with the senior championship for a period. I don't see how denying the bottom 16 teams any form of intercounty championship football will do anything for player buy in either.

[thewobbler]

But it's not a case of denying them an intercounty championship.

It's rewarding progress and effort over a season (two at worst) with a place in the knockout stages. Not much different to how NFL playoff system operates.

Honestly the biggest roadblocks that intercounty game faces is people coming to terms with the fact that there's 20+ counties in Ireland now take league football more seriously than the the AISFC..: and that holding onto this 1920s vision that championship is everything, is misguided and even a little insulting.

Liatroim's effort levels vs Mayo a few weeks ago epitomises what the championship has become. We really, really don't need this format (automatic entry) to have thriving intercounty games. The league will provide the competition and the enjoyment needed for every player in Ireland . The playoffs then serves as a cherry on top for the elite.

[trailer]

We need 3 tiers. Elite, Improving and Muck. 3 Champos. If I was from Louth and Mickey Harte won a Muck Championship with us, I would be delighted.

[thewobbler]

Are you from Louth?

Or are you just trying to guess what it would feel like?

[Applesisapples]

We need 3 tiers. Elite, Improving and Muck. 3 Champos. If I was from Louth and Mickey Harte won a Muck Championship with us, I would be delighted.

Wouldn't quite put it like that, but you see how in LGFA and Camogie a championship win for Intermediate and Junior Counties with a move up next year motivates the teams. Its like the old days when a club is in the middle of division 2 and persists in entering the Senior Championship as they've always been a senior team, albeit they only won it once 30 years ago. Sometimes decisions have to be taken out of the hands of players and county officials for the good of the game.

[trailer]

We need 3 tiers. Elite, Improving and Muck. 3 Champos. If I was from Louth and Mickey Harte won a Muck Championship with us, I would be delighted.

Wouldn't quite put it like that, but you see how in LGFA and Camogie a championship win for Intermediate and Junior Counties with a move up next year motivates the teams. Its like the old days when a club is in the middle of division 2 and persists in entering the Senior Championship as they've always been a senior team, albeit they only won it once 30 years ago. Sometimes decisions have to be taken out of the hands of players and county officials for the good of the game.

It was tongue n cheek. But I agree I think we need 3 levels.

[trailer]

Are you from Louth?

Or are you just trying to guess what it would feel like?

Yeah I didn't write it correctly..

[Itchy]

3 Tiers are successfully implemented at club level in every county. Its a big thing to win a junior championship if you happen to play at that level. I have written this before it is all about marketing at county level. Here is what is needed in my opinion.

All Ireland Final day is Senior, Intermediate and Junior finals all played one after each other. Minor final moved to a different date.
6 teams get 83,000 tickets minus say 10,000 for sponsors, players etc etc. So 70k odd tickets/6 = 12k tickets per county
No tickets for every club in Ireland. This has to stop.
TV rights to All Ireland final sold to competing TV channels only on the proviso that they show all 3 games live.
I think team holidays paid for by Croke Park as Mr Brolly suggested I think would also be a good incentive for the 3 winners.

[BennyCake]

We need 3 tiers. Elite, Improving and Muck. 3 Champos. If I was from Louth and Mickey Harte won a Muck Championship with us, I would be delighted.

Wouldn't quite put it like that, but you see how in LGFA and Camogie a championship win for Intermediate and Junior Counties with a move up next year motivates the teams. Its like the old days when a club is in the middle of division 2 and persists in entering the Senior Championship as they've always been a senior team, albeit they only won it once 30 years ago. Sometimes decisions have to be taken out of the hands of players and county officials for the good of the game.

It was tongue n cheek. But I agree I think we need 3 levels.

So that'll be say, 10/11 teams in Tier 1?

No doubt a champions league style format for the Championship is coming. So yes, you're right, we need yet more games between Dublin Kerry Mayo and Tyrone every week. We don't get nearly enough of those 

[BennyCake]

3 Tiers are successfully implemented at club level in every county. Its a big thing to win a junior championship if you happen to play at that level. I have written this before it is all about marketing at county level. Here is what is needed in my opinion.

All Ireland Final day is Senior, Intermediate and Junior finals all played one after each other. Minor final moved to a different date.
6 teams get 83,000 tickets minus say 10,000 for sponsors, players etc etc. So 70k odd tickets/6 = 12k tickets per county
No tickets for every club in Ireland. This has to stop.
TV rights to All Ireland final sold to competing TV channels only on the proviso that they show all 3 games live.
I think team holidays paid for by Croke Park as Mr Brolly suggested I think would also be a good incentive for the 3 winners.

Can you elaborate on that?

[Captain Obvious]

We already have tiers it's called the league. Make the league more important and use the championship as it should be a knock out cup competition whereby underdog stories aren't confined to history.

[trailer]

We already have tiers it's called the league. Make the league more important and use the championship as it should be a knock out cup competition whereby underdog stories aren't confined to history.

More League to Summer, Give Sam to the winners.
The solution is staring us in the face if only we'd embrace it.

[Armagh18]

We need 3 tiers. Elite, Improving and Muck. 3 Champos. If I was from Louth and Mickey Harte won a Muck Championship with us, I would be delighted.

Wouldn't quite put it like that, but you see how in LGFA and Camogie a championship win for Intermediate and Junior Counties with a move up next year motivates the teams. Its like the old days when a club is in the middle of division 2 and persists in entering the Senior Championship as they've always been a senior team, albeit they only won it once 30 years ago. Sometimes decisions have to be taken out of the hands of players and county officials for the good of the game.

It was tongue n cheek. But I agree I think we need 3 levels.

So that'll be say, 10/11 teams in Tier 1?

No doubt a champions league style format for the Championship is coming. So yes, you're right, we need yet more games between Dublin Kerry Mayo and Tyrone every week. We don't get nearly enough of those 

Well is there much point watching Dublin play Leitrim or Wicklow or Kerry play Antrim?