Been listening to lots of stories of Jack the man, and of the many stories of his time over the Irish team.
You have to admit he had a massive impact in Ireland during his time in charge.
Anyone got any good stories or memories of following the team, or the man himself?
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drink for everyone. Paid with a cheque that the Publican never cashed it, he framed it.
Ah the famous cheque story... Not that I'm doubting ur version but its been told that many times there must be a cheque in every pub in country..
One I liked that I read over last week was about him and Cas walking around Giants stadium before Ireland/Italy game at World Cup 94 and it was a sea of green. As they got to the end he looked at Cas and said "f**k me Tony you're the only Italian here"
I reckon half the story's have been exaggerated for after dinner speaking purposes but there's no doubt he was a character
Quote from: Boycey on July 14, 2020, 10:30:58 PM
Ah the famous cheque story... Not that I'm doubting ur version but its been told that many times there must be a cheque in every pub in country..
One I liked that I read over last week was about him and Cas walking around Giants stadium before Ireland/Italy game at World Cup 94 and it was a sea of green. As they got to the end he looked at Cas and said "f**k me Tony you're the only Italian here"
I reckon half the story's have been exaggerated for after dinner speaking purposes but there's no doubt he was a character
;D
I've probably heard it about 100 times
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:15:52 PM
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drink for everyone. Paid with a cheque that the Publican never cashed it, he framed it.
Can you do us a favour and take a picture of it? Or any cheque he wrote?
He was very irritated by this story.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 15, 2020, 12:22:03 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 14, 2020, 10:15:52 PM
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drink for everyone. Paid with a cheque that the Publican never cashed it, he framed it.
Can you do us a favour and take a picture of it? Or any cheque he wrote?
He was very irritated by this story.
I'd love to, but of course since it's a completely made up story it's proving difficult.
What I remember most was the pundits giving out about the system of play but as a GAA man not understanding why they were giving out. We were getting the job done.
A national icon.
However given the players at his disposal should we have achieved more or at least achieved it with a more enjoyable brand?
Compare that to what we have now - at least now we have a reason to play shite ball given the personnel
Quote from: Taylor on July 15, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
A national icon.
However given the players at his disposal should we have achieved more or at least achieved it with a more enjoyable brand?
Compare that to what we have now - at least now we have a reason to play shite ball given the personnel
I think there was method to the madness. He spoke of seeing the 86 WC with every team doing the same thing and created a system to stop them playing. Brady and O'Leary didn't fit that system. Later when they figured us out he adapted it a bit. We certainly played a more technical game in 94 than 88.
It is interesting that put em under pressure is considered caveman when the gegenpress is an innovation. The same tactic from a gruff Yorkshire man and a slick German sees a totally different reception
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 15, 2020, 11:22:03 AM
What I remember most was the pundits giving out about the system of play but as a GAA man not understanding why they were giving out. We were getting the job done.
Same argument as the blanket. A legitimate tactic, but sending a team out to primarily stop the opposition isn't great tv.
Jack Charlton wasn't from Yorkshire.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 15, 2020, 11:38:21 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 15, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
A national icon.
However given the players at his disposal should we have achieved more or at least achieved it with a more enjoyable brand?
Compare that to what we have now - at least now we have a reason to play shite ball given the personnel
I think there was method to the madness. He spoke of seeing the 86 WC with every team doing the same thing and created a system to stop them playing. Brady and O'Leary didn't fit that system. Later when they figured us out he adapted it a bit. We certainly played a more technical game in 94 than 88.
It is interesting that put em under pressure is considered caveman when the gegenpress is an innovation. The same tactic from a gruff Yorkshire man and a slick German sees a totally different reception
Route one football is the quickest way to goal. Even if your strikers don't win the ball, the opponents defence still has to deal with it under pressure. And when you had Irish players harassing the oppositions defenders, it led to chances. That's why his game plan worked.
Jack's tactics were uncomplicated and straightforward, just like the man himself. That's what I liked about him. What you seen is what you got.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 15, 2020, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 15, 2020, 11:38:21 AM
Quote from: Taylor on July 15, 2020, 11:24:41 AM
A national icon.
However given the players at his disposal should we have achieved more or at least achieved it with a more enjoyable brand?
Compare that to what we have now - at least now we have a reason to play shite ball given the personnel
I think there was method to the madness. He spoke of seeing the 86 WC with every team doing the same thing and created a system to stop them playing. Brady and O'Leary didn't fit that system. Later when they figured us out he adapted it a bit. We certainly played a more technical game in 94 than 88.
It is interesting that put em under pressure is considered caveman when the gegenpress is an innovation. The same tactic from a gruff Yorkshire man and a slick German sees a totally different reception
Route one football is the quickest way to goal. Even if your strikers don't win the ball, the opponents defence still has to deal with it under pressure. And when you had Irish players harassing the oppositions defenders, it led to chances. That's why his game plan worked.
Jack's tactics were uncomplicated and straightforward, just like the man himself. That's what I liked about him. What you seen is what you got.
You have to make a distinction here. There wete two sets of tactics. What we fid with the ball and what we did without. And they were distinct and separate.
With the ball was the controversy. Terrible to watch and we had the players to be better. Without was actually quite detailed and innovative. As I said, Klopp and the Portuguese managers are madter tacticians for the exact same thing.
I was in Sicily in 1990 and met Ronnie Whelan and Liam Brady - they were with big Jim Neilly from the BBC - in a coastal village called Mondello. Chatted to them for ages. They were both bitterly disappointed not to have been with the official panel, and both said they were entirely match fit so injury or fitness wasnt the reason they were dropped. They told me theh had a few run ins with Jack previous to that because Jack didnt want them playing football around the midfield - he literally wanted that area bypassed altogether.
It had come to a head a few times at players meetings where it was pointed out to Jack that he needed to trust his players more, but Big Jack stubbornly stuck to his guns and by not even including these two on his touring panel laid down a marker to the rest that it was his way or no way.
No one will ever know if Ireland would have achieved more or less with these two on the pitch. At I time I firmly believed they were our only two best truly world class players and neither were on the pitch.(Paul Mc Grath was world class too). The run we got in the competition was terrific - but the football was largely shite. Egypt Holland and Romania were bore fests for most of the game.
Of the 1990 squad, Kevin Sheedy (1987), Steve Staunton (1990), Ray Houghton (1990), Ronnie Whelan (1990), John Aldridge (1988), David O'Leary (1989) all won English First Division medals around that time (Whelan was in the squad). McGrath arguably better than any of those and several other top flight players. It was a really good squad.
I think in hindsight the criticism of the style of play was a little overstated. Dunphy's outburst during the Egypt game, though mostly valid, was motivated by other things as he subsequently acknowledged. I think we should have been able to adapt a bit once/if we went behind. Not bringing Brady was not right in my opinion but overall he got a lot right.
Bannside, Greece bored their way to Euro 2004. The Greek fans weren't complaining. If Ireland had managed to do that in Euro 88 nobody in Ireland would've cared either.
Spain were lorded as some superhuman team in 2010, for their supposed beautiful passing game. But they only won every knockout game 1-0. Two of those in ET and one was from a header from a set piece. Spain bored me more in 2010 than Greece did in 2004.
You can't argue against Charlton's record. He did have a great players at his disposal, and the extension of the granny rule usage meant that we were able to have a squad of good players (under Hand we had some great players, but we always had some lesser lights filling in too).
I think it's the fact of who he beat to the job that does give me pause for thought - "what if we'd had that team and played proper football with the ball?"
What would that team have done had Bob Paisley won the vote?
Johnny Giles said the vote was Paisley 10, Charlton 3, Giles 3, Tuohy 3. Instead of awarding it to Paisley as he had more than 50%, they decided that the rules allowed or demanded a second round. He doesn't know why they picked Charlton rather than himself or Tuohy as the finalist but it was just Paisley v Charlton in round 2.
Then, in addition to getting all 9 non-Paisley votes from the first round, Bernard O'Byrne switched from Paisley to Charlton, so Jack won 10-9.
It was an amazing electoral victory!
Also must be said of Jack that he managed Paul McGrath superbly. To get as much out of Paul and for so long, was great man management (he'd good club managers at Villa too, to be fair)
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
You can't argue against Charlton's record. He did have a great players at his disposal, and the extension of the granny rule usage meant that we were able to have a squad of good players (under Hand we had some great players, but we always had some lesser lights filling in too).
I think it's the fact of who he beat to the job that does give me pause for thought - "what if we'd had that team and played proper football with the ball?"
What would that team have done had Bob Paisley won the vote?
Johnny Giles said the vote was Paisley 10, Charlton 3, Giles 3, Tuohy 3. Instead of awarding it to Paisley as he had more than 50%, they decided that the rules allowed or demanded a second round. He doesn't know why they picked Charlton rather than himself or Tuohy as the finalist but it was just Paisley v Charlton in round 2.
Then, in addition to getting all 9 non-Paisley votes from the first round, Bernard O'Byrne switched from Paisley to Charlton, so Jack won 10-9.
It was an amazing electoral victory!
Also must be said of Jack that he managed Paul McGrath superbly. To get as much out of Paul and for so long, was great man management (he'd good club managers at Villa too, to be fair)
Didn't Paisley get alzheimer's a few years later?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 15, 2020, 03:25:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
You can't argue against Charlton's record. He did have a great players at his disposal, and the extension of the granny rule usage meant that we were able to have a squad of good players (under Hand we had some great players, but we always had some lesser lights filling in too).
I think it's the fact of who he beat to the job that does give me pause for thought - "what if we'd had that team and played proper football with the ball?"
What would that team have done had Bob Paisley won the vote?
Johnny Giles said the vote was Paisley 10, Charlton 3, Giles 3, Tuohy 3. Instead of awarding it to Paisley as he had more than 50%, they decided that the rules allowed or demanded a second round. He doesn't know why they picked Charlton rather than himself or Tuohy as the finalist but it was just Paisley v Charlton in round 2.
Then, in addition to getting all 9 non-Paisley votes from the first round, Bernard O'Byrne switched from Paisley to Charlton, so Jack won 10-9.
It was an amazing electoral victory!
Also must be said of Jack that he managed Paul McGrath superbly. To get as much out of Paul and for so long, was great man management (he'd good club managers at Villa too, to be fair)
Didn't Paisley get alzheimer's a few years later?
Yep. 1992, so 6 years after the appointment. At least that was when he stepped down from Liverpool director duties due to it.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 15, 2020, 02:08:26 PM
Of the 1990 squad, Kevin Sheedy (1987), Steve Staunton (1990), Ray Houghton (1990), Ronnie Whelan (1990), John Aldridge (1988), David O'Leary (1989) all won English First Division medals around that time (Whelan was in the squad). McGrath arguably better than any of those and several other top flight players. It was a really good squad.
I think in hindsight the criticism of the style of play was a little overstated. Dunphy's outburst during the Egypt game, though mostly valid, was motivated by other things as he subsequently acknowledged. I think we should have been able to adapt a bit once/if we went behind. Not bringing Brady was not right in my opinion but overall he got a lot right.
In Jacks book he talked about his first game having 6 top flight centre halves available - Moran, McGrath, O'Leary, McCarthy & Lawrenson are the ones I can think of. Not sure if McCarthy was top flight though.
I think he tried to make a system that used the players he had, rightly or wrongly. It didn't work in 94 because he hadn't got the target man and the back pass rule was changed. They had some excellent players at both tournaments to be fair.
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 15, 2020, 02:08:26 PM
Of the 1990 squad, Kevin Sheedy (1987), Steve Staunton (1990), Ray Houghton (1990), Ronnie Whelan (1990), John Aldridge (1988), David O'Leary (1989) all won English First Division medals around that time (Whelan was in the squad). McGrath arguably better than any of those and several other top flight players. It was a really good squad.
I think in hindsight the criticism of the style of play was a little overstated. Dunphy's outburst during the Egypt game, though mostly valid, was motivated by other things as he subsequently acknowledged. I think we should have been able to adapt a bit once/if we went behind. Not bringing Brady was not right in my opinion but overall he got a lot right.
The recent podcast 'Italia 90 - One Day at a Time' is a very good listen about the dynamic at the time, in the squad and outside, is a very good listen Seanie.
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2020, 03:30:34 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 15, 2020, 03:25:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on July 15, 2020, 02:33:00 PM
You can't argue against Charlton's record. He did have a great players at his disposal, and the extension of the granny rule usage meant that we were able to have a squad of good players (under Hand we had some great players, but we always had some lesser lights filling in too).
I think it's the fact of who he beat to the job that does give me pause for thought - "what if we'd had that team and played proper football with the ball?"
What would that team have done had Bob Paisley won the vote?
Johnny Giles said the vote was Paisley 10, Charlton 3, Giles 3, Tuohy 3. Instead of awarding it to Paisley as he had more than 50%, they decided that the rules allowed or demanded a second round. He doesn't know why they picked Charlton rather than himself or Tuohy as the finalist but it was just Paisley v Charlton in round 2.
Then, in addition to getting all 9 non-Paisley votes from the first round, Bernard O'Byrne switched from Paisley to Charlton, so Jack won 10-9.
It was an amazing electoral victory!
Also must be said of Jack that he managed Paul McGrath superbly. To get as much out of Paul and for so long, was great man management (he'd good club managers at Villa too, to be fair)
Didn't Paisley get alzheimer's a few years later?
Yep. 1992, so 6 years after the appointment. At least that was when he stepped down from Liverpool director duties due to it.
It might have been working on him for a few years though.
As well as having a definite plan. Being was his own man and not doing what the (real) Irish Soccer public wanted. Using David O'Leary as an example of anyone who did not sing from his hymn sheet.
Jack got a lorry load of luck along the way. Qualifying for Euro '88 with the help of Gary McKay. But I suppose like all good Managers - You have to be in the position to take advantage of good luck to get it!
Alot is made of the Egypt result however this is the same Egypt team that drew with the then European Champions, Holland and who England struggled to beat one nil. I loved this period in Irish football but whose to say we would have qualified for these big tournaments playing football the right way? If I remember rightly our group for euro 88 included Scotland, Bulgaria and Belgium (all who qualified for WC86). Belgium actually finished 4th in 86 I think. That was a hell of a group to come through. The group for italia 90 also contained three WC86 qualifiers in Spain, Hungary and the Billy boys.
I presume the fact that his gamelan was relatively simple was an advantage at international level where managers don't get huge amounts of time with the players
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 15, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
As well as having a definite plan. Being was his own man and not doing what the (real) Irish Soccer public wanted. Using David O'Leary as an example of anyone who did not sing from his hymn sheet.
Jack got a lorry load of luck along the way. Qualifying for Euro '88 with the help of Gary McKay. But I suppose like all good Managers - You have to be in the position to take advantage of good luck to get it!
In some ways it was luck balancing itself out. Did not deserve to lose 2-1 in Sofia after a fine second half performance. Was also very unlucky in 1992 Euro qualifying, played both England and Poland off the park in the away games, but 4pts lost.
Quote from: weareros on July 15, 2020, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 15, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
As well as having a definite plan. Being was his own man and not doing what the (real) Irish Soccer public wanted. Using David O'Leary as an example of anyone who did not sing from his hymn sheet.
Jack got a lorry load of luck along the way. Qualifying for Euro '88 with the help of Gary McKay. But I suppose like all good Managers - You have to be in the position to take advantage of good luck to get it!
In some ways it was luck balancing itself out. Did not deserve to lose 2-1 in Sofia after a fine second half performance. Was also very unlucky in 1992 Euro qualifying, played both England and Poland off the park in the away games, but 4pts lost.
Denis wise had a HAND in getting full points in Turkey in that campaign.
See 3:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659n6iUuoqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659n6iUuoqE)
Askance Big Jack memories;
Crap football, freezing out Dave O'Leary for years, Harry Ramsden challenge, getting snippy on air when Michael Lyster asked him why we couldn't beat Liechenstein.
In fairness to Jack, he got in fairly early on Saipan and said on Saturday Night Live Late Late (or whatever) - 'Roy is wrong. I don't want anyone feeling sorry for him. He's wrong'.
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
;D
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
And the sticker albums, especially World Cup '90 (I'd look out for it if I was you), and Match and Shoot, and the stylish kits on display (the 1990 World Cup is the high point for stylish football kits), and the Esso coins, and Roddy Doyle's piece in the Observer about 1990 beginning on June 4th, 1989 that was published a few years later - even though I wasn't in the Bayside Inn for those matches, I imagine that I was.
I think less about the actual football, especially the actual football matches we were involved in at that tournament.
Italia '90 seemed to be about everything but the football. It was about youth and being young, even if you were old, and popular culture and the hazy mid-summer evening air and a feeling of being there then, and by there, I mean Ireland - as Con Houlihan said "I missed the World Cup in 1990 - I was in Italy."
Was it a particularly hot Summer that year?
Reading Sid's post I have similar memories but also seem to remember great weather.......maybe its the old mind playing games or my memory tainting reality
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 01:08:19 AM
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
And the sticker albums, especially World Cup '90 (I'd look out for it if I was you), and Match and Shoot, and the stylish kits on display (the 1990 World Cup is the high point for stylish football kits), and the Esso coins, and Roddy Doyle's piece in the Observer about 1990 beginning on June 4th, 1989 that was published a few years later - even though I wasn't in the Bayside Inn for those matches, I imagine that I was.
I think less about the actual football, especially the actual football matches we were involved in at that tournament.
Italia '90 seemed to be about everything but the football. It was about youth and being young, even if you were old, and popular culture and the hazy mid-summer evening air and a feeling of being there then, and by there, I mean Ireland - as Con Houlihan said "I missed the World Cup in 1990 - I was in Italy."
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 01:08:19 AM
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
And the sticker albums, especially World Cup '90 (I'd look out for it if I was you), and Match and Shoot, and the stylish kits on display (the 1990 World Cup is the high point for stylish football kits), and the Esso coins, and Roddy Doyle's piece in the Observer about 1990 beginning on June 4th, 1989 that was published a few years later - even though I wasn't in the Bayside Inn for those matches, I imagine that I was.
I think less about the actual football, especially the actual football matches we were involved in at that tournament.
Italia '90 seemed to be about everything but the football. It was about youth and being young, even if you were old, and popular culture and the hazy mid-summer evening air and a feeling of being there then, and by there, I mean Ireland - as Con Houlihan said "I missed the World Cup in 1990 - I was in Italy."
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
Gazzetta Football Italia is the greatest football show of all time.
The weather must have been good (Dry in Belfast anyway) as My Da used to bring the TV out into the back garden so me and my mates could all sit and watch the Ireland games.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 01:08:19 AM
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
Like fcuk. Better The Devil You Know by Minogue towered over those tunes at the time.
Quote from: weareros on July 15, 2020, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 15, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
As well as having a definite plan. Being was his own man and not doing what the (real) Irish Soccer public wanted. Using David O'Leary as an example of anyone who did not sing from his hymn sheet.
Jack got a lorry load of luck along the way. Qualifying for Euro '88 with the help of Gary McKay. But I suppose like all good Managers - You have to be in the position to take advantage of good luck to get it!
In some ways it was luck balancing itself out. Did not deserve to lose 2-1 in Sofia after a fine second half performance. Was also very unlucky in 1992 Euro qualifying, played both England and Poland off the park in the away games, but 4pts lost.
Not qualifying for 1992 was down to bad goalkeeping as well as Wise's obvious handball if I remember correctly....a few howlers in Poland from Bonner. We definitely would have had a shout in that tournament if we'd got there.
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 01:08:19 AM
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
And the sticker albums, especially World Cup '90 (I'd look out for it if I was you), and Match and Shoot, and the stylish kits on display (the 1990 World Cup is the high point for stylish football kits), and the Esso coins, and Roddy Doyle's piece in the Observer about 1990 beginning on June 4th, 1989 that was published a few years later - even though I wasn't in the Bayside Inn for those matches, I imagine that I was.
I think less about the actual football, especially the actual football matches we were involved in at that tournament.
Italia '90 seemed to be about everything but the football. It was about youth and being young, even if you were old, and popular culture and the hazy mid-summer evening air and a feeling of being there then, and by there, I mean Ireland - as Con Houlihan said "I missed the World Cup in 1990 - I was in Italy."
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
Yes, that's right. I used to watch that. So many big players in Italy at that time.
I liked the onscreen graphics from 1990 World Cup, the dots and scores sliding up, and scorers/time above. Nearly sure the Italians used the same for Serie A.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 16, 2020, 09:39:52 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 01:08:19 AM
When I think of Italia '90 I think of the music, not just Put 'Em Under Pressure and World In Motion and Nessun Dorma and that criminally under rated ITV theme tune and the RTE theme tune which was shit but which I loved, but the general music scene of the time and the songs that were doing the rounds, Killer by Adamski and Step On by the Happy Mondays and Vogue by Madonna.
And the sticker albums, especially World Cup '90 (I'd look out for it if I was you), and Match and Shoot, and the stylish kits on display (the 1990 World Cup is the high point for stylish football kits), and the Esso coins, and Roddy Doyle's piece in the Observer about 1990 beginning on June 4th, 1989 that was published a few years later - even though I wasn't in the Bayside Inn for those matches, I imagine that I was.
I think less about the actual football, especially the actual football matches we were involved in at that tournament.
Italia '90 seemed to be about everything but the football. It was about youth and being young, even if you were old, and popular culture and the hazy mid-summer evening air and a feeling of being there then, and by there, I mean Ireland - as Con Houlihan said "I missed the World Cup in 1990 - I was in Italy."
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
Yes, that's right. I used to watch that. So many big players in Italy at that time.
I liked the onscreen graphics from 1990 World Cup, the dots and scores sliding up, and scorers/time above. Nearly sure the Italians used the same for Serie A.
Channel 4 used to have it on a Saturday morning - super show in the days of limited soccer on TV
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 15, 2020, 10:43:00 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 15, 2020, 09:56:55 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 15, 2020, 06:45:22 PM
As well as having a definite plan. Being was his own man and not doing what the (real) Irish Soccer public wanted. Using David O'Leary as an example of anyone who did not sing from his hymn sheet.
Jack got a lorry load of luck along the way. Qualifying for Euro '88 with the help of Gary McKay. But I suppose like all good Managers - You have to be in the position to take advantage of good luck to get it!
In some ways it was luck balancing itself out. Did not deserve to lose 2-1 in Sofia after a fine second half performance. Was also very unlucky in 1992 Euro qualifying, played both England and Poland off the park in the away games, but 4pts lost.
Denis wise had a HAND in getting full points in Turkey in that campaign.
See 3:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659n6iUuoqE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=659n6iUuoqE)
He always was a hateful wee bastard. He's even more of a hateful bastard after seeing that.
Quote from: Taylor on July 16, 2020, 08:15:57 AM
Was it a particularly hot Summer that year?
It was definitely one of the better summers weather wise. '89 and '90 both were. Not quite 1995 but not far off either.
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
The running tracks around the pitches were considered cutting edge stadium design then. That changed within about two years.
C4's coverage of Serie A started in the 1992/93 season but RTE had been showing highlights since the 89/90 season, before the World Cup. The first season of it was Maradona's second title with Napoli.
Not quite sure when it started to go wrong for Serie A. I guess the buzz started to slowly ebb away, year on year, from about '95, which was the end of the great Milan team. It remained strong for at least a decade afterwards but the Premier League started to become a juggernaut around '95 and Spanish football started getting a lot of attention from around '96 or '97 on. In the first half of the 90s Serie A was the unquestioned kingpin but by the second half of the decade the competition was beginning to pass it out.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
The running tracks around the pitches were considered cutting edge stadium design then. That changed within about two years.
C4's coverage of Serie A started in the 1992/93 season but RTE had been showing highlights since the 89/90 season, before the World Cup. The first season of it was Maradona's second title with Napoli.
Not quite sure when it started to go wrong for Serie A. I guess the buzz started to slowly ebb away, year on year, from about '95, which was the end of the great Milan team. It remained strong for at least a decade afterwards but the Premier League started to become a juggernaut around '95 and Spanish football started getting a lot of attention from around '96 or '97 on. In the first half of the 90s Serie A was the unquestioned kingpin but by the second half of the decade the competition was beginning to pass it out.
The Stadia that stick out in my mind is the San Siro, Fiorentina's ground and Sampdoria/ Genoa's ground (I always imagined people lived in the corners). Stadio delle Alpi and Roma/Lazio (Stadio Olympico??) had/have those running tracks and they looked awful soulless places.
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
The running tracks around the pitches were considered cutting edge stadium design then. That changed within about two years.
C4's coverage of Serie A started in the 1992/93 season but RTE had been showing highlights since the 89/90 season, before the World Cup. The first season of it was Maradona's second title with Napoli.
Not quite sure when it started to go wrong for Serie A. I guess the buzz started to slowly ebb away, year on year, from about '95, which was the end of the great Milan team. It remained strong for at least a decade afterwards but the Premier League started to become a juggernaut around '95 and Spanish football started getting a lot of attention from around '96 or '97 on. In the first half of the 90s Serie A was the unquestioned kingpin but by the second half of the decade the competition was beginning to pass it out.
The Stadia that stick out in my mind is the San Siro, Fiorentina's ground and Sampdoria/ Genoa's ground (I always imagined people lived in the corners). Stadio delle Alpi and Roma/Lazio (Stadio Olympico??) had/have those running tracks and they looked awful soulless places.
The red brick in the corners - always wondered how you would get in there to watch games
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 12:39:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 12:28:52 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 16, 2020, 09:11:51 AM
Deadly post. Remember falling in love with Italian Soccer. The Stadia, the players, the teams. Was from a different time. RTE used to show league highlights on Monday night and I never missed them, sitting in my jammies in the front room. Then we had James Richardson and Gazzetta Football Italia. Him sitting in some beautiful piazza sipping a coffee in the morning sun. Take me back.
The running tracks around the pitches were considered cutting edge stadium design then. That changed within about two years.
C4's coverage of Serie A started in the 1992/93 season but RTE had been showing highlights since the 89/90 season, before the World Cup. The first season of it was Maradona's second title with Napoli.
Not quite sure when it started to go wrong for Serie A. I guess the buzz started to slowly ebb away, year on year, from about '95, which was the end of the great Milan team. It remained strong for at least a decade afterwards but the Premier League started to become a juggernaut around '95 and Spanish football started getting a lot of attention from around '96 or '97 on. In the first half of the 90s Serie A was the unquestioned kingpin but by the second half of the decade the competition was beginning to pass it out.
The Stadia that stick out in my mind is the San Siro, Fiorentina's ground and Sampdoria/ Genoa's ground (I always imagined people lived in the corners). Stadio delle Alpi and Roma/Lazio (Stadio Olympico??) had/have those running tracks and they looked awful soulless places.
Yes I always thought they were apartments or something. Someone hanging the washing out on the balcony..."oh there's a match on!"
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
And Socrates played for UCD.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 16, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
And Socrates played for UCD.
Shelbourne reserves actually.
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 16, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
And Socrates played for UCD.
Shelbourne reserves actually.
Did you know Germany's away kit is green because of Ireland?
There is actually a thread in Irish sporting myths.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 16, 2020, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on July 16, 2020, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on July 16, 2020, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 15, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
I remember him coming in to my local pub in East Tyrone and buying everyone a drink. There were only 5 in it at the time in but the barman cashed the cheque anyway and didn't put it on the wall. Jack wasn't happy.
And Socrates played for UCD.
Shelbourne reserves actually.
Did you know Germany's away kit is green because of Ireland?
There is actually a thread in Irish sporting myths.
That Hill 16 was constructed from the rubble of the Easter Rising is a myth, but what is true is that the second incarnation of Hill 16 was partly constructed from the rubble of the Nelson pillar. Also Pillar Caffrey got his nickname because used to work at the pillar as a toddler.
RIP Jack, nice tribute by the radio stations playing Give it a lash jack @1230
Jack's funeral takes place:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53475667
(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-53475667)
Just watched the documentary last night. Sad to see Jack decline like he did. He and the team gave us some brilliant memories.
What was Brendan O'Carroll doing on it though? I noticed he didn't talk about him getting his ponytail cut off at the World Cup.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Just watched the documentary last night. Sad to see Jack decline like he did. He and the team gave us some brilliant memories.
What was Brendan O'Carroll doing on it though? I noticed he didn't talk about him getting his ponytail cut off at the World Cup.
Brendan OCarroll was a weird one alright but not as weird as Chris DeBurgh :o
Quote from: Taylor on April 15, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Just watched the documentary last night. Sad to see Jack decline like he did. He and the team gave us some brilliant memories.
What was Brendan O'Carroll doing on it though? I noticed he didn't talk about him getting his ponytail cut off at the World Cup.
Brendan OCarroll was a weird one alright but not as weird as Chris DeBurgh :o
Yes, very weird!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5KjBIijmt4
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 06:46:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 15, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Just watched the documentary last night. Sad to see Jack decline like he did. He and the team gave us some brilliant memories.
What was Brendan O'Carroll doing on it though? I noticed he didn't talk about him getting his ponytail cut off at the World Cup.
Brendan OCarroll was a weird one alright but not as weird as Chris DeBurgh :o
Yes, very weird!
Was that him in Rome with the players after they got beat by Italy?
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 06:46:27 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 15, 2021, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 15, 2021, 05:07:13 PM
Just watched the documentary last night. Sad to see Jack decline like he did. He and the team gave us some brilliant memories.
What was Brendan O'Carroll doing on it though? I noticed he didn't talk about him getting his ponytail cut off at the World Cup.
Brendan OCarroll was a weird one alright but not as weird as Chris DeBurgh :o
Yes, very weird!
Was that him in Rome with the players after they got beat by
Italy?
I think so yeah.
He had a couple of sing songs with the players in the hotel after games.
Strange
One year already.
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drinks for everyone. Paid with a cheque but the owner never cashed it. He framed it on the wall.
Ah the famous cheque story... Not that I'm doubting ur version but its been told that many times there must be a cheque in every pub in country..
One I liked that I read over last week was about him and Cas walking around Giants stadium before Ireland/Italy game at World Cup 94 and it was a sea of green. As they got to the end he looked at Cas and said "f**k me Tony you're the only Italian here"
I reckon half the story's have been exaggerated for after dinner speaking purposes but there's no doubt he was a character
Quote from: Olly on July 19, 2021, 08:10:13 PM
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drinks for everyone. Paid with a cheque but the owner never cashed it. He framed it on the wall.
No danger of a photo of this cheque?
This story used to drive him mad. Inferred he was a welcher.
Ollys been fishing again, got himself a nice couple there 😃
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on July 20, 2021, 02:38:11 PM
Ollys been fishing again, got himself a nice couple there 😃
Definitely one. The Deeler's a bit sharper.
He came into our local pub and bought a big round of drink for everyone. He went to pay with card but the Bar owner did charge for it he kept the card and framed it.