Guess the Sindo Headline

[Hound]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

There is a lot more mileage in this story.

It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.

Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.

Agree with you totally about Cullinane.

I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.

I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!   

But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media  are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.

And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.

Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG. 

I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!

So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?

SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.

You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!

The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism

[Angelo]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

[Angelo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

There is a lot more mileage in this story.

It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.

Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.

Agree with you totally about Cullinane.

I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.

I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!   

But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media  are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.

And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.

Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG. 

I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!

So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?

SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.

You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!

The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism

Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself which such blatant lies?

Joe Brolly was hauled off the United Ireland debate after accusing the DUP of being sectarian, racist and homophobic on RTE.

This was a week after Brian Dobson gave Leo Varadkar a free pass to make unfounded sectarian charges against SF which he later had to apologise. He was allowed to this completely unchallenged by Dobson and RTE. RTE had to settle a defamation case with a SF TD recently after Joe Duffy defamed him live on air, it cost them around 150k which will be footed by the taxpayer, the same presenter has previously defamed SF with untruthful allegations - how is Duffy still in a job? Miriam O'Callaghan has regularly made completely unfounded allegations against Gerry Adams and also had to issue an apology to Danny Morrison after she defamed him on live TV.

RTE have a track record of making unfounded allegations against SF members. Look at the recent bullying allegations of the SF member in Meath, wall to wall coverage yet little of Jennifer McNeill hauling down a party member to Killiney beach. Nothing about the FG councillor in Meath who claim he has his car burned out and was forced to leave the party due to factions within the party and FG HQ did nothing about it.

You are getting caught out rotten talking out both side of your mouth and it's interesting to see how hostile you're getting when it's been scrutinised.

[mouview]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?

[Hound]

I'll take my time and explain this slowly and as clearly as I can.

Ireland (ROI) is a small country by many standards, size, population, economic might. As one which has a small, open economy it relies very heavily on trade around the world with other countries and trading blocs (e.g. the EU); it also relies very heavily on investment from foreign companies in the country who provide employment and thus financial prosperity. Technological and pharmaceutical firms are an example of this. Ireland has the great benefit of having many friends in the world; e.g. there is a very strong pro-Irish lobby in the USA; the EU has been of huge assistance in providing structural funds to Northern Ireland in the wake of the GFA.

Political stability and maturity is of critical importance. A recent example of this is where Norwegian telecoms company Telenor was forced to write-down a very large investment amount in Myanmar due to the unrest in that country.
https://thediplomat.com/2021/05/norways-telenor-writes-off-its-myanmar-operation-amid-crisis/
What would it say to the world if Ireland was to be seeing to promote a political party who haven't forsworn their links with a terrorist organisation? Who has supported murderers of a law enforcement officer of the state, whose TD recently endorsed a sectarian killer?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40275992.html
Do you think it would entice foreign corporations to (continue to) invest in the country? There may be a lot of political goodwill towards Ireland in Washington but the American government would not or will not support a terrorist-sympathizing party here.

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

This period as being the main opposition is a great opportunity for SF to show the doubters that they are neither monsters nor raving loonies, as plenty in the south would have thought them previously due to their support of indiscriminate terrorism and/or Marxism in the not too distant past (but getting further in past every day!)

Cullinane got things off to an immediate bad start and a good minority of shinners have doubled down on that by commending him. But at least leadership gave him a public dressing down.

Most people would say Pearse Doherty appears intelligent and very competent and I was particularly looking forward to seeing how he did as Opposition Finance spokesperson. Unfortunately Brexit and Covid has dominated everything and on a big picture level, SF have been little different to FF and FG regarding policy on these issues. So we've seen almost nothing from Doherty on how he'd treat the Foreign Investment / MNC sector.

But also as they've been mostly following the FG/FF policies on the two big issues (while sniping on small issues that come around, as all opposition parties do), they've shown a level of responsibility and competence and have done nothing really that might make people very wary of them leading the country (save that Cullinane episode).

[Snapchap]

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?

[Hound]

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?

The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.

[Angelo]

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?

Ethnic cleansing down in West Cork wasn't terrorism, it was the liberation of Free Staters so that they could create a elite in society that could enrich themselves by hawking off state resources and services to connected private interests.

[Angelo]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?

They would.

SF are the largest party on this island at present. I think it's obvious to see why unionists and FFG have a common interest in seeing the island remain partitioned.

[Angelo]

This period as being the main opposition is a great opportunity for SF to show the doubters that they are neither monsters nor raving loonies, as plenty in the south would have thought them previously due to their support of indiscriminate terrorism and/or Marxism in the not too distant past (but getting further in past every day!)

Ghastly crime

Interesting too is that implicit in Vlad's statement is the possibility that the government might one day issue an apology to the families of those murdered by the Free State.

Here's what Vlad said on being asked by a Sinn Féin TD if the Free State had murdered Republicans at Ballyseedy: 'Deputy Ferris raised the issue of Ballyseedy and I have been there. I can say, in clear conscience and without any doubt in my mind, that the events at Ballyseedy constituted an atrocity. I can also say that people who were executed without trial by the government were murdered. It was an atrocity. That is my view.'

His comments were frank, controversial and went largely unnoticed by the media. Incredibly, they also were ignored by Fine Gael, some of whose founders were responsible for the ghastly crime.

The Ballyseedy outrage was one of many carried out by the Irish National Army against anti-Treaty soldiers. Eoin Neeson, in his book 'The Civil War 1922-23,' writes that although most Kerry people supported the anti-Treaty forces, the important towns were occupied by pro-Treaty troops, a situation that facilitated their campaign of bloodletting and retribution.

In the Ballyseedy case, after a Free State officer was killed, nine anti-Treaty prisoners were randomly selected, brutally tortured and put to death in a vile fashion.

Tied to a landmine, their legs bound together above the knees, they were blown to smithereens. One man, Stephen Fuller, miraculously survived the explosion.

Dorothty Macardle's 'Tragedies of Kerry' is worth reading for an account of what happened at Ballyseedy. It also includes accounts of other horrifying acts of repression that the Free State used in order to crush Republican resistance.



Chilling response

The response of WT Cosgrave (Ireland's first Taoiseach) to the massacre was bloodthirsty and chilling. In February 1923, he announced that executions carried out by the State had a remarkable effect. 'It's a sad thing to say, but if the country is to live and we have to exterminate 10,000 republicans, the 3 millions of our people are bigger than the ten thousand.'

The head of the Free State National Army, Richard Mulcahy, who was also Minister for Defence, suggested that official executions deterred his troops from carrying out unofficial killings!

Outside of those thrown into a ditch with a bullet between their eyes or blown to pieces by mines, by the end of the Civil War the government judicially had executed 77 men – this was 53 more than the British executed during the War of Independence.

[tiempo]

The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.

[Itchy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

There is a lot more mileage in this story.

It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.

Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.

Agree with you totally about Cullinane.

I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.

I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!   

But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media  are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.

And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.

Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG. 

I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!

So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?

SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.

You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!

The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism

I don't take SF criticism personally. If during election people wanted to pull up their manifesto and critique it, call it nonsense or whatever then no problem. However they dragged up a murder in armagh and used a grieving family like pawns. SF getting grief for having a twitter account in Europe or keeping a list of voters yet when another party simultaneously is out deleting websites not a peep. Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months. Did any other party get that, do example when An Taoiseach was breaking rules at an opening in Cork and blatantly ignoring rules live on camera?.
FG were in government, asking them about their record on homelessness is fair. If SF gets into government it will be fair to ask them.
BTW, McInerney is a fine journalist and I think will be fair unlike many others with numerous family links to FF and FG, miriam and tubridy for example.

[Angelo]

The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.

They did indeed and guys like Hound will eulogise the men who carried out those atrocities while pretending to take some sort of moral stand against "uppity nordies" who should know their place.

[Hound]

I don't take SF criticism personally. If during election people wanted to pull up their manifesto and critique it, call it nonsense or whatever then no problem. However they dragged up a murder in armagh and used a grieving family like pawns. SF getting grief for having a twitter account in Europe or keeping a list of voters yet when another party simultaneously is out deleting websites not a peep. Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months. Did any other party get that, do example when An Taoiseach was breaking rules at an opening in Cork and blatantly ignoring rules live on camera?.
FG were in government, asking them about their record on homelessness is fair. If SF gets into government it will be fair to ask them.
BTW, McInerney is a fine journalist and I think will be fair unlike many others with numerous family links to FF and FG, miriam and tubridy for example.

SF didnt want the Armagh murder brought up. Doesn't mean bringing it up is an anti-SF agenda.
I don't buy the "grieving family like pawns" bit even slightly. That's deflection.
It's like saying the media don't actually give a crap about the poor homeless when they tackle FG about it.

The Storey funeral was a ridiculous high profile mistake. You can't for one minute say they did not deserve criticism for it.
However " Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months" is a gross exaggeration!! At least in the media I was following there was no "wall to wall coverage for months".
The story did keep rumbling from time to time, but that was purely because Arlene widened it to talk about prosecutions and then police etc. It was news, but still covered much less down south than up north.

Do you really believe what the Taoiseach did was the same? If you do then fair enough, but I don't. Mary Lou (nor anyone else) wasn't calling for him to be prosecuted, if they did, it would have got wall to wall coverage. 

SF get a hard time because of their past. Is that fair? Maybe not. It gets less as the new breed come into the party and the old stagers leave. FF still get a hard time over the financial crisis and the brown envelopes, even though most of the guilty have left, but that's also diminishing with time.

But no doubt there's an element of conspiracy theory in saying FF and FG don't get criticised from the mainstream media. Stephen Donnelly doesn't get criticised? What about every Minister for Health since Martin??? What about housing - FG not get criticised about that? It's just not true.
And Mary Lou has received a huge amount of airtime on RTE during the Covid crisis. Rightly so. But you seem to ignore that. To suggest RTE have a bias/agenda against her, is just silly.

[seafoid]

The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.

But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..