Munster SHC 1/4 final (Doubles up as Allianz Hurling League Div 1 final)
Limerick v Clare
Munster SHC semi-finals
Cork v Waterford
Tipperary v Limerick/Clare
Leinster SHC 1/4 final
Laois v Dublin
Leinster SHC semi-finals
Galway v Wexford
Laois/Dublin v Kilkenny
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0626/1149765-2020-hurling-and-football-championships-finalised/
24/25 October
Allianz Football League Round 7
Munster SHC 1/4-final
Leinster SHC 1/4 final
Christy Ring and Nickey Rackard 1/4 finals
Joe McDonagh & Lory Meagher Round 1
31 October/ 1 November
Connacht SFC 1/4 finals
Munster SFC 1/4 finals
Leinster SFC Round 1
Ulster SFC preliminary round/1/4 finals
Munster SHC semi-finals
Leinster SHC semi-finals
Joe McDonagh & Lory Meagher Round 2
Christy Ring & Nickey Rackard semi-finals & relegation semi-finals
7/8 November
Connacht SFC semi-finals
Munster SFC semi-finals
Leinster SFC 1/4 finals
Ulster SFC 1/4 finals
All-Ireland SHC Qualifier Round 1 (2 games)
Joe McDonagh Round 3 (1 Game)
Christy Ring & Nickey Rackard Relegation finals
Lory Meagher Round 3
14/15 November
Connacht SFC final
Leinster SFC semi-finals
Ulster SFC semi-final
Leinster SHC final
Munster SHC final
All-Ireland SHC Qualifier Round 2 (2 games)
Joe McDonagh Round 3 (1 game)
Christy Ring, Nickey Rackard & Lory Meagher finals
21/22 November
Leinster SFC final
Joe McDonagh Round 4
All-Ireland SHC quarter-finals (2 games)
Munster SFC final
Ulster SFC final
Bord Gáis Energy All-Ireland U20 SHC final
28/29 November
All-Ireland SHC semi-final (Leinster champion v 1/4 final winner)
Joe McDonagh Round 5
All-Ireland SHC semi-final (Munster champions v 1/4 final winner)
All-Ireland MFC semi-finals
All-Ireland MHC semi-finals
5/6 December
All-Ireland SFC semi-final (Leinster champion v Ulster champion)
All-Ireland SFC semi-final (Connacht champion v Munster champion)
All-Ireland MFC final
All-Ireland MHC final
13 December
All-Ireland SHC final
Joe McDonagh final
19 December
All-Ireland SFC final
1/4 finals?
how this that worked out?
I presume two of the teams are the beaten provincial finalists, but how are the other two worked out?
they should have done a 16 team knockout or even a super 8 type tournament with 6 teams getting byes to the super 8 and 4 teams playing for two spots in the super 8
Quote from: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 04:40:24 PM
1/4 finals?
how this that worked out?
I presume two of the teams are the beaten provincial finalists, but how are the other two worked out?
2 qualifiers from the backdoor. Provincial.winners go to.semi..
I imagine.
I have gone to a lot of championship matches on August and a lfew championship matches in November. Championship is summer hurling. The hay saved.
Nobody saves hay in November because it rains too much and grass doesn't grow.
Would Tipp have the legs for intense mullocking 6 weekends in a row ?
I think the bookies will struggle to price it this year.
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2020, 07:32:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 04:40:24 PM
1/4 finals?
how this that worked out?
I presume two of the teams are the beaten provincial finalists, but how are the other two worked out?
2 qualifiers from the backdoor. Provincial.winners go to.semi..
I imagine.
I have gone to a lot of championship matches on August and a lfew championship matches in November. Championship is summer hurling. The hay saved.
Nobody saves hay in November because it rains too much and grass doesn't grow.
Would Tipp have the legs for intense mullocking 6 weekends in a row ?
I think the bookies will struggle to price it this year.
Panels with depth required and you'd think the likes of Limerick are reasonably well equipped but you're still relying on keeping key players fit and well and there's a certain element of luck required there.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 30, 2020, 12:43:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2020, 07:32:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 29, 2020, 04:40:24 PM
1/4 finals?
how this that worked out?
I presume two of the teams are the beaten provincial finalists, but how are the other two worked out?
2 qualifiers from the backdoor. Provincial.winners go to.semi..
I imagine.
I have gone to a lot of championship matches on August and a lfew championship matches in November. Championship is summer hurling. The hay saved.
Nobody saves hay in November because it rains too much and grass doesn't grow.
Would Tipp have the legs for intense mullocking 6 weekends in a row ?
I think the bookies will struggle to price it this year.
Panels with depth required and you'd think the likes of Limerick are reasonably well equipped but you're still relying on keeping key players fit and well and there's a certain element of luck required there.
Even more so this year.
Laois could do well.
Odds 7/1
Tipperary 10/3.
Limerick 7/2.
Kilkenny 11/2.
Galway 6/1.
Oddschecker
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/shane-o-donnell-s-future-with-clare-uncertain-as-return-to-us-a-possibility-1.4315990
Clare hurler Shane O'Donnell has revealed he is uncertain about what his future holds beyond the completion of a PhD in autumn with one option being to return to the United States.
In what will go down as good news for Banner County supporters, gifted O'Donnell said he's "leaning towards" remaining in Ireland and working here.
The 26-year-old, the star of Clare's 2013 All-Ireland breakthrough when he struck 3-3 in the final replay defeat of Cork, spent six months at Harvard University in late 2018 and early 2019 on a prestigious Fulbright Scholarship.
The microbiology student is currently wrapping up a PhD in the area of gut bacteria and the hydrogen cycle within the gut at UCC and expects to be finished in October.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/nicky-english-helter-skelter-hurling-of-1995-final-is-scary-to-look-back-on-1.4344975
Nicky English: Helter-skelter hurling of 1995 final is scary to look back on
Clare's victory over Offaly is unrecognisable from the modern game in many aspects
about 4 hours ago
Clare 1-13 Offaly 2-8
After what had been a blistering summer, the weather ran out in early September and the All-Ireland hurling final was played in wet and windy conditions.
Clare led by Ger Loughnane, bestriding the championship like a revivalist preacher, were the story of the summer, winning a first Munster championship since 1932 after which everything else was a bonus.
The final against Offaly was edgy and low scoring. The champions had only really opened up that summer in blowing Kilkenny out of the Leinster final and their inability to close the deal after Johnny Pilkington's goal put them three up, cost them in the end.
There was drama aplenty. Clare full back – and current manager – Brian Lohan finished the match playing with a torn hamstring and Eamonn Taaffe, not listed in the programme came in on 50 minutes for Stephen McNamara and scored the decisive goal in the 66th minute, pouncing when Anthony Daly's free came back off the crossbar.
In commentary Ger Canning says before Daly strikes that Taaffe is to be substituted. Seconds later, he scores the goal and is immediately replaced.
Scores level, Clare's nerve is steadier and a 65 by Daly, followed by a Jamesie O'Connor free, takes them to a first All-Ireland in 81 years.
Clare's Fergus Tuohy and Johnny Pilkington of Offaly in action during the 1995 All-Ireland hurling final. Photograph: Inpho
In a way it was scary looking back at this. In 1995, I was still playing and had another year before calling it a day but it doesn't feel that long ago. The hurling though is almost unrecognisable.
Paul Earley said in relation to the Football Review Committee that one of the reasons why the game compares badly with hurling is that the ball isn't contested nearly as much.
Looking back at this match, it's clear that even in modern hurling the ball isn't contested as much as it was back in the era of the 1990s.
It's fair to make some allowances for the poor conditions on the day but there is nothing like the time and space that players have now or at least would create for themselves these days.
Clare and Offaly gave each other hardly any space. There was far more hooking and blocking, tight marking and ferocious contests for the ball – helter-skelter stuff. As a result there's nowhere near as much considered striking of the ball unlike the current game where it's almost like playing your own ball and seeing who ends up scoring the most.
One of the reasons why there's so much hooking and blocking is that players are attempting shots from positions they shouldn't have been. Today you'd scoop the ball away or hand-pass it whereas back then everyone's just trying to get rid of the ball, preferably as far away as possible.
It's no surprise that the two best players on view were Brian Lohan and Kevin Kinahan, the two full backs. With all the high ball coming down on the square their job was to win possession and clear.
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They got blocked on several occasions but in the modern game they wouldn't be looking for an almighty clearance all the time: there'd be a hand-pass back to the goalkeeper or a short stick pass to a spare man.
Certainly a corner back wouldn't have the modern comfort zone, allowing him to take a whizzed puck-out with his back to whatever was coming at him on his own 20-metre line.
Even the crowd in the stand in 1995 would have got a heart attack if that happened. People are conditioned to it now – even Brian Cody!
The ferocity of the contest was reflected in the number of hurleys broken. From the third minute when Offaly full forward Pat O'Connor lost his, I counted four in the first half alone.
PJ O'Connell would probably have got a red card these days for a head-high challenge on Brian Whelahan, with his hurley straying up around the helmet. There was no intent or malice there but anything around the head generally gets you your marching orders in the modern game.
From the throw-in differences are obvious. Instead of trying to get possession, players let fly at the ball just looking to move it on. The first six plays are attempts to hit the ball along the ground – something very few opt to do now.
Eventually, PJ O'Connell's stroke goes to Daithí Regan whose point in the first minute bodes well for the scoring rate but that's not how things turn out. Clare take 11 minutes to score their first against Offaly's two.
Martin Hanamy of Offaly tussles with Stephen McNamara of Clare during the 1995 All-Ireland final. Photograph: Lorraine O'Sullivan/Inpho
Regan's delivery of ball from the ground was outstanding but these days people would look at what the reward was rather than simply seeing the glory of a well-hit ground ball.
It's an exciting contest because neither team gets away from the other but the hurling's not great. To be fair conditions were poor with rain falling but in general touch isn't as good as the modern game and scoring a lot more laboured.
By half-time Offaly lead 1-6 to 0-7 – the late goal by Michael Duignan not something Davy Fitzgerald would remember fondly after what had been an excellent season for him.
The final score of 1-13 to 2-8 was the lowest since 1987 when Galway beat Kilkenny 1-12 to 0-9, also on a very wet day but that too represents the difference in hurling styles between the contemporary and back then.
The 1995 total of 30 points (including goals) compares with 54 from last year's final. Clare's winning tally of 16 (1-13) is 18 lower than Tipperary's in 2019, 34 (3-25). Over the decade the 1990s had an average winning total in All-Ireland finals of 20.3 compared to 28.2 in the decade just gone.
The losing average from the 2010s (21.9) would be enough to beat the winning average from the 1990s.
In some ways the game isn't as disciplined these days in the context of responsibility for marking another player. Play is looser and has evolved into more of a scoring fest, which is what we want.
Equipment is far better because it's far more consistent, thanks to standardisation. The shape of the hurleys is different. They're longer than they would be now and the head or the bas is about half the size, which means the sweet spot on a modern stick is bigger.
Speaking to hurlers of my generation, when they puck around with their sons, there's way more control with the hurleys. Sliotars are arguably too light now but they are beautiful to play with.
Standardisation has been a great improvement. For instance, look at the number of sticks broken in the 1995 final: if you broke your hurley back then you'd be devastated and not convinced that you'd be able to hit the ball as well with the new one.
In 1995, the definition of a good puck-out is how far you can hit it with maybe some thought put into the trajectory – but no matter how high it ended up going in the end, the farther it went the better.
This in turn creates the aerial contests. The battle between Clare centre forward PJ O'Connell and Offaly centre back Hubert Rigney is like a microcosm of the different styles. It's ferocious but entirely legitimate.
Their job is to contest the ball. PJ's role is to get it past the centre back, breaking it through the defensive line. Nowadays there'd be a sweeper there to pick up any loose ball but 25 years ago, he's creating a secondary contest for one of his inside forwards.
He wants the outcome of the contest to be the ball in behind his man whereas Hubert wants it back out in front of him – the centre back's function hasn't changed as much but it's not the same.
Mistakes helped to swing the outcome but it was an autumn day, not summer, which made conditions more difficult. Clare dominated the second half but their inability to take scores nearly cost them in the end.
They'd just 0-7 scored by half-time and with nearly half an hour gone in the second half, their total was only up to 0-10. In other words they managed 1-3 in the last five minutes or so.
Leaving out goals, overall they'd just seven points from play and four of those came from Fergie Tuohy who had a memorable afternoon, leaving three for everyone else. Offaly had only 0-4 from play. That's 0-11 altogether. The figures for the last three All-Irelands average 0-28 from play, again not including goals.
It was a characteristic of the Clare team to be able to win despite a patchy conversion rate – 16 wides in this match – which was to their credit and also reflective of a very powerful defence with Ollie Baker coming back in a defensive midfield role.
Offaly made their own mistakes. After Johnny Pilkington's goal put them three points ahead, 2-7 to 0-10, they missed a succession of chances to go four up but never managed it. As a result they were vulnerable to Clare's late burst.
I don't really enjoy watching old matches. Knowing the score spoils the whole experience no matter how enjoyable the result is but this was an interesting snapshot of a time that looks a lot farther away than it feels.
Funnily enough I was at a camogie game on Saturday and was talking to my old PE teacher who'd played football for St Galls back in the 80's when they were contesting the Ulster Final against Burren who went onto win the AI that year and someone had given him a DVD of the game.
He thought it was a terrible game, purely catch and kick with no discernible game plan and in his own words the modern game being far superior to what it was back then.
Hurling is probably no different with how you look at how the likes of Limerick play a possession based game that as Nicky says would have fans back then having heart palpitations..
Quote from: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
Funnily enough I was at a camogie game on Saturday and was talking to my old PE teacher who'd played football for St Galls back in the 80's when they were contesting the Ulster Final against Burren who went onto win the AI that year and someone had given him a DVD of the game.
He thought it was a terrible game, purely catch and kick with no discernible game plan and in his own words the modern game being far superior to what it was back then.
Hurling is probably no different with how you look at how the likes of Limerick play a possession based game that as Nicky says would have fans back then having heart palpitations..
The possession game has been partly enabled by the evolution of the hurley itself - hurleys now have much larger bosses than in the 1990s, they're like what only goalkeepers used back then, but they're shorter and lighter
There was no such a thing as tactics in Gaelic football or hurling in the 1980s, you just drove the ball as far as you could
The most basic function of tactics is to have the ball, therefore hit and hope went out of fashion
Gaelic football has gained more as a sport from the evolution of tactics than hurling has, a furious tactic-less hurling match like Cork-Galway 1990 or Cork-Tipp 1991 was an incredible spectacle
Hurling has reached the point now where there are almost too many scores, 30 points is not uncommon now
Quote from: sid waddell on September 03, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 03, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
Funnily enough I was at a camogie game on Saturday and was talking to my old PE teacher who'd played football for St Galls back in the 80's when they were contesting the Ulster Final against Burren who went onto win the AI that year and someone had given him a DVD of the game.
He thought it was a terrible game, purely catch and kick with no discernible game plan and in his own words the modern game being far superior to what it was back then.
Hurling is probably no different with how you look at how the likes of Limerick play a possession based game that as Nicky says would have fans back then having heart palpitations..
The possession game has been partly enabled by the evolution of the hurley itself - hurleys now have much larger bosses than in the 1990s, they're like what only goalkeepers used back then, but they're shorter and lighter
There was no such a thing as tactics in Gaelic football or hurling in the 1980s, you just drove the ball as far as you could
The most basic function of tactics is to have the ball, therefore hit and hope went out of fashion
Gaelic football has gained more as a sport from the evolution of tactics than hurling has, a furious tactic-less hurling match like Cork-Galway 1990 or Cork-Tipp 1991 was an incredible spectacle
Hurling has reached the point now where there are almost too many scores, 30 points is not uncommon now
Nicky hits on this with this comment and I entirely agree;
Sliotars are arguably too light now but they are beautiful to play with.Points are regularly scored from well inside your own half which wasn't the case back in the day with the cork core wrapped in cotton thread.
I'd like to see the PU centres deadened a bit to ensure there's more hurling if you like before in the scoring range.
Very much all valid points. Plysically stronger/fitter players with larger bose hurls still hitting the same weighted ball as yesteryear. The question is how heavy would the ball have to be made to nulify this?? and do we now want the return of lower score games? As JC said it woul be nice to see more hurling before scoring.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on September 03, 2020, 12:15:19 PM
Very much all valid points. Plysically stronger/fitter players with larger bose hurls still hitting the same weighted ball as yesteryear. The question is how heavy would the ball have to be made to nulify this?? and do we now want the return of lower score games? As JC said it woul be nice to see more hurling before scoring.
Players and tactics would adopt to a heavier ball, lads are stronger and more skilful than before. Wouldn't be long before someone says we need a heavier ball as they are scoring more!
Goal posts dimensions are the same and pitches same length. Bose size is within regulation, the problem with the ball it changed because materials to produce them changed.
It so happens that ball stays drier stronger than before, be been striking a ball for 40 years, i can't remember it (unless sogging wet) being that much heavier
I was reading this article from last year recently. I wonder how tactics will develop to match conditions in November, assuming the championship goes ahead. Summer hurling is about accuracy , intensity and energy building confidence. Accuracy is likely to be lower post Halloween with the mud and the cold. Plus there probably won't be any crowds.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-battle-for-middle-ground-will-decide-who-stands-out-from-the-crowd-1.3841966
Dropping people into the middle third has been in the game for a number of years, especially with deep-lying wing forwards. But this is more than that. It's more extreme now and more deliberate. What you're looking at is whole half-forward lines and whole half-back lines plus an inside forward and his marker all following the dropping ball to get in around it when it breaks.
On Sunday, the message was simple – flood the middle third, win the ball by having a numerical advantage in the area of the field, work the ball in triangles from there. The idea then is to get the best player in the best launching position who can look up and play a killer ball into pockets of space in front of goal for the inside men.
Sounds simple but, in reality, a lot of precisely-executed skills have to be performed repeatedly for this to work. It's not enough to be physically strong around the middle. You need to be quick and sharp with the pick-up, you need to be aware of your surroundings and able to get a pass away with up to five or six bodies closing on you. You need to be calm under pressure.
Dirty ball
For it to work you need an animal work-rate to win dirty ball, with a high volume of players occupying this area. Next you need a really good half-back line to distribute the ball to the inside forwards. For the strike forwards left up there, off-the-ball running is the key.
• They need to run laterally and be patient to create the space, they need to time their run to secure possession out in front. After that, it's either shoot or lay-off to a runner coming from midfield.
• If you can be the team that repeatedly emerges from the fight in the middle with the ball, the advantages are huge. Straight away, you've created space in the two most dangerous areas of the pitch. All the bodies that have been sucked into the centre of the pitch aren't getting in the way of either your inside forwards or the player striking the ball into them. It won't always be perfect but when it works, you will have your best forward in possession 20 metres from goal, usually one-on-one.
The idea then is to get the best player in the best launching position who can look up and play a killer ball into pockets of space in front of goal for the inside men.
Sounds simple but, in reality, a lot of precisely-executed skills have to be performed repeatedly for this to work. It's not enough to be physically strong around the middle. You need to be quick and sharp with the pick-up, you need to be aware of your surroundings and able to get a pass away with up to five or six bodies closing on you. You need to be calm under pressure.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/cork-s-near-record-dry-spell-casts-minds-back-to-2004-05-glory-days-1.4351958
Cork's near-record dry spell casts minds back to 2004-05 glory days
Former manager John Allen recalls excitement and challenges of his period in charge
Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 06:32
Seán Moran
It falls today, predictably without too much fanfare, but it is now 15 years since Cork last won the All-Ireland hurling title. Having survived a slight frisson against Galway in the 2005 final, the county ultimately recorded back-to-back titles for the first time since 1978.
Few would have imagined that at least a decade and a half would pass without the county seeing Liam MacCarthy again. By this stage Cork hurling is just one year short of its record dry spell of 16 years, set between 1903 and 1919. Even the fabled 12-year famine that ended in 1966 has been eclipsed.
John Allen was the manager in 2005, having stepped up to take over the reigning champions when Dónal O'Grady called it a day. Apart from a successful cameo with Limerick, winning a Munster title in 2013, he has had hardly any involvement in the game as manager, but from a distance reflects on what befell the county after the 2005 win.
"So much happened in the immediate aftermath of 2005 when you had a number of strikes, a lot of uncertainty and a lot of unfriendliness going on outside of the playing field and it divided an awful lot of people. From 2007 to 2013 there was a bit of a tug going on all the time between the board and the players. And that didn't help."
He doesn't, however, want the difficulties of what followed to overshadow the players' achievements in progressing from the rubble of their first strike in late 2002 to reach the next four All-Ireland hurling finals, winning two.
"They had won two U-21 All-Irelands and fought a very divisive battle with the boardroom, but came through to put their sporting selves where their collective mouth had been and did deliver on the field. That created enormous hype around the team when they did get to four finals.
"So much has happened between '05 and now that it seems so long ago."
Allen is keen to emphasise that the battle to assert themselves before being overtaken by Brian Cody's rising Kilkenny in 2006 wasn't just a tale of grim struggle.
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"It does feel like a generation ago given the excitement of that time in Cork when we reached four All-Ireland finals in a row and there was huge interest in the county in tickets and children's days – jeez, there must have been thousands of them, particularly the first year [2003] when Setanta Ó hAilpín was involved.
"It was like Justin Bieber being down in the Park. Literally we nearly needed security to get him off the field one of the nights. There was this sort of excitement there between 2003 and '06."
The team's line on the graph crossed Kilkenny's in that final year. A potential three-in-a-row for Cork became the starting point for what nearly turned out to be five for Kilkenny.
Although the previous years had been intense, Allen doesn't believe that defeat in what was to be his final match in charge of Cork was the result of fatigue.
"It was a long process, going from the dispute in 2002 up until losing to Kilkenny in '06 – and being well beaten. There had been a huge amount happening but also a whole lot of positives. I don't know that we were tired.
"I remember being down in Inchydoney the previous weekend and we played an A v B game and the quality of it was outstanding and I just couldn't see us being beaten. JJ Delaney [Kilkenny's All-Star defender] was injured and we were in good shape. I don't think you could put it down to tiredness, there was such buoyancy there.
"Kilkenny proved many times afterwards that they could come up with plans to stop another team and always had the ability to come up with something different in a replay. They did it with us by stopping our runners and we weren't ready for it."
He remains sad about how fractious everything became in his absence and the decision not to persevere with Ger Cunningham and the remainder of his management team. The friction with the county board led to further strikes, and the intervention of the then new GAA chief executive Páraic Duffy and the best-known industrial relations mediator in the country, Kieran Mulvey.
Allen is also unhappy at the serrated attitudes towards those players – who he describes as "very good, wholesome people" – from some in the county, agreeing that this pains him.
"It does because anyone who worked with them . . . Dónal Óg [Cusack], who was the strongest character in that group, if I wanted someone in my backroom team who I know would give 100 per cent, it would be him."
Cusack has combined with former team-mates Seán Óg Ó hAilpín, Tom Kenny and Kieran Murphy to take a first step on the ladder of management in Cork.
"They're working with the minors now and I hear only good things back from parents involved. Seán Óg is another who gets bad press from time to time but he's a special guy, a decent, lovely man who's good with young people and does anything he's asked, like presenting medals and visiting people. It galls me to hear the things said about them by people who don't know them at all."
In Allen's view, the growth of a toxic social media environment has made it challenging for people taking such public roles.
"Nobody would be involved in anything were they to take it too seriously."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/brendan-maher-surprised-at-timing-of-introduction-of-yellow-sliotar-1.4378935
The GAA announced the decision on Friday afternoon as part of the updated regulations for all upcoming inter-county fixtures and that "for all games in the 2020 GAA Hurling All-Ireland Senior Championship (including the provincial championship) officially approved sliotars with yellow leather shall be used for all games (sliotars with white leather cannot be used)".
Quote from: seafoid on October 13, 2020, 12:06:43 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/brendan-maher-surprised-at-timing-of-introduction-of-yellow-sliotar-1.4378935
The GAA announced the decision on Friday afternoon as part of the updated regulations for all upcoming inter-county fixtures and that "for all games in the 2020 GAA Hurling All-Ireland Senior Championship (including the provincial championship) officially approved sliotars with yellow leather shall be used for all games (sliotars with white leather cannot be used)".
At least they're tackling the big issues.
Very strange game there yesterday down in Thurles with Limerick and Clare due to no atmosphere at all.
Nip and tuck through the first half and Tony Kelly giving a masterclass in point taking for all over the place, 12 points in all in that half alone and over 50% of them from play I reckon.
Limerick looked the better team but with the loseness of the play were also tacking on points at will with big Hegarty and Guillane doing most damage.
Limerick then came out at the start of the second half and opened up their six point lead by doing nothing spectacular, just the big runners coming through the middle and picking the passes into the forwards and Clare couldn't cope even though they got a goal to close it momentarily Limerick emptied the bench at the end with no drop in performance.
Lots of frees throughout so it'll be interesting to see the reaction to the refereeing but he did pull up the overcarrying and spare arm tackling as well as the pushing in the back.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Very strange game there yesterday down in Thurles with Limerick and Clare due to no atmosphere at all.
Nip and tuck through the first half and Tony Kelly giving a masterclass in point taking for all over the place, 12 points in all in that half alone and over 50% of them from play I reckon.
Limerick looked the better team but with the loseness of the play were also tacking on points at will with big Hegarty and Guillane doing most damage.
Limerick then came out at the start of the second half and opened up their six point lead by doing nothing spectacular, just the big runners coming through the middle and picking the passes into the forwards and Clare couldn't cope even though they got a goal to close it momentarily Limerick emptied the bench at the end with no drop in performance.
Lots of frees throughout so it'll be interesting to see the reaction to the refereeing but he did pull up the overcarrying and spare arm tackling as well as the pushing in the back.
Was saying this once the game got started, lack of intensity and no hard tackles going in, this allowed the big scores for Limerick to be racked up, at the same time the long range scores by both teams, sorry the long ranges scores by Kelly and Limerick were top notch, Limerick didn't have much efforts on goal to be fair and is this a new tactic?
I'd be concerned for Clare that they were so reliant on Kelly, at 26 he seems to have been around for longer, and whoever get Clare next would do well to just to put a sticky man marker on him
As for the refereeing there wasn't much for me other than the soft yellow cards, though he was consistent with showing them, he blew for more 'throw balls' than most refs do all season, which is great and the over carrying was spot on..
For limerick they look to have at least another two gears in them, would just like to see more of a goal threat and that main player has retired and coming up against Tipp next week will give us a more of a view on where these teams are at
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Very strange game there yesterday down in Thurles with Limerick and Clare due to no atmosphere at all.
Nip and tuck through the first half and Tony Kelly giving a masterclass in point taking for all over the place, 12 points in all in that half alone and over 50% of them from play I reckon.
Limerick looked the better team but with the loseness of the play were also tacking on points at will with big Hegarty and Guillane doing most damage.
Limerick then came out at the start of the second half and opened up their six point lead by doing nothing spectacular, just the big runners coming through the middle and picking the passes into the forwards and Clare couldn't cope even though they got a goal to close it momentarily Limerick emptied the bench at the end with no drop in performance.
Lots of frees throughout so it'll be interesting to see the reaction to the refereeing but he did pull up the overcarrying and spare arm tackling as well as the pushing in the back.
Was saying this once the game got started, lack of intensity and no hard tackles going in, this allowed the big scores for Limerick to be racked up, at the same time the long range scores by both teams, sorry the long ranges scores by Kelly and Limerick were top notch, Limerick didn't have much efforts on goal to be fair and is this a new tactic?
I'd be concerned for Clare that they were so reliant on Kelly, at 26 he seems to have been around for longer, and whoever get Clare next would do well to just to put a sticky man marker on him
As for the refereeing there wasn't much for me other than the soft yellow cards, though he was consistent with showing them, he blew for more 'throw balls' than most refs do all season, which is great and the over carrying was spot on..
For limerick they look to have at least another two gears in them, would just like to see more of a goal threat and that main player has retired and coming up against Tipp next week will give us a more of a view on where these teams are at
Clare really miss John Conlan on the edge of the square. They can lop balls into him and if he doesn't win them they're breaking off for the likes of O'Donnell to get onto. They really only managed that once yesterday and got their goal from it. Other than that it was coming out to easy and considering barring Sean Finn that was a novel fullback like you'd have thought Clare would have tried to expose it more.
Limerick v Tipp, Waterford v Cork, Galway v Wexford and the Dubs v Kilkenny this weekend coming should be interesting.
Kilkenny might get a scare vrs dublin but still think they'll have too much in that one.
Cork will be slight favourites over Waterford but with new management in Waterford that could be interesting and the other two are too close to call IMO.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Very strange game there yesterday down in Thurles with Limerick and Clare due to no atmosphere at all.
Nip and tuck through the first half and Tony Kelly giving a masterclass in point taking for all over the place, 12 points in all in that half alone and over 50% of them from play I reckon.
Limerick looked the better team but with the loseness of the play were also tacking on points at will with big Hegarty and Guillane doing most damage.
Limerick then came out at the start of the second half and opened up their six point lead by doing nothing spectacular, just the big runners coming through the middle and picking the passes into the forwards and Clare couldn't cope even though they got a goal to close it momentarily Limerick emptied the bench at the end with no drop in performance.
Lots of frees throughout so it'll be interesting to see the reaction to the refereeing but he did pull up the overcarrying and spare arm tackling as well as the pushing in the back.
Was saying this once the game got started, lack of intensity and no hard tackles going in, this allowed the big scores for Limerick to be racked up, at the same time the long range scores by both teams, sorry the long ranges scores by Kelly and Limerick were top notch, Limerick didn't have much efforts on goal to be fair and is this a new tactic?
I'd be concerned for Clare that they were so reliant on Kelly, at 26 he seems to have been around for longer, and whoever get Clare next would do well to just to put a sticky man marker on him
As for the refereeing there wasn't much for me other than the soft yellow cards, though he was consistent with showing them, he blew for more 'throw balls' than most refs do all season, which is great and the over carrying was spot on..
For limerick they look to have at least another two gears in them, would just like to see more of a goal threat and that main player has retired and coming up against Tipp next week will give us a more of a view on where these teams are at
Clare really miss John Conlan on the edge of the square. They can lop balls into him and if he doesn't win them they're breaking off for the likes of O'Donnell to get onto. They really only managed that once yesterday and got their goal from it. Other than that it was coming out to easy and considering barring Sean Finn that was a novel fullback like you'd have thought Clare would have tried to expose it more.
Limerick v Tipp, Waterford v Cork, Galway v Wexford and the Dubs v Kilkenny this weekend coming should be interesting.
Kilkenny might get a scare vrs dublin but still think they'll have too much in that one.
Cork will be slight favourites over Waterford but with new management in Waterford that could be interesting and the other two are too close to call IMO.
The hurling has been wide open these last few years, been great entertainment and I fully expect another name on the cup this year, with no round robin its all in for the other teams that lose next week and that should produce some cracking games also....
Dublin produced a decent enough performance the other night, that extra game will have moved them on and better prepared for Kilkenny, whether they have enough to get over the line is another thing, will check the handicap score on that one.. Cork, who knows with Cork, they could well do it, Wexford will always have one big game in them, which weekend will that be?
Galway, have slipped slightly, and for no real reason, the squad is very similar to their winning team and some lads are at that good age
So its left to Kilkenny and Tipp and what they will bring, this weekend will show who's been hard at it during lockdown
There was a discussion on twitter yesterday
Kevin Egan
@lonesharkoy
Genuine question - am I the only one who doesn't enjoy hurling as much now that there are 60-70 shots on goal per game, and consequently a huge amount of restarts/stoppages? I feel like a huge amount of the continuity is gone out of the sport at the very elite level.
John Callinan
@jgcallinan_john
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Absolutely agree. Rules and their interpretation promotes possession and running, not striking the ball. Huge Gaelic Football influences
Adrian
@massive357
·
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
It's also changed the way the game is played. There was no decent attacking solo run down the heart of the field in that game today. A joy to watch when it happens
Michael Duignan
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Agreed Kevin. Combination of lighter sliotar, better hurls, more skilful players and massive strength of the modern player.
Enda McEvoy
@lonesharkoy
Couldn't agree more and I've been banging on about this for a few years now. It's become TOO high scoring - and no, that's not a good thing. Scores should be earned.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 01:52:25 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 26, 2020, 08:57:03 AM
Very strange game there yesterday down in Thurles with Limerick and Clare due to no atmosphere at all.
Nip and tuck through the first half and Tony Kelly giving a masterclass in point taking for all over the place, 12 points in all in that half alone and over 50% of them from play I reckon.
Limerick looked the better team but with the loseness of the play were also tacking on points at will with big Hegarty and Guillane doing most damage.
Limerick then came out at the start of the second half and opened up their six point lead by doing nothing spectacular, just the big runners coming through the middle and picking the passes into the forwards and Clare couldn't cope even though they got a goal to close it momentarily Limerick emptied the bench at the end with no drop in performance.
Lots of frees throughout so it'll be interesting to see the reaction to the refereeing but he did pull up the overcarrying and spare arm tackling as well as the pushing in the back.
Was saying this once the game got started, lack of intensity and no hard tackles going in, this allowed the big scores for Limerick to be racked up, at the same time the long range scores by both teams, sorry the long ranges scores by Kelly and Limerick were top notch, Limerick didn't have much efforts on goal to be fair and is this a new tactic?
I'd be concerned for Clare that they were so reliant on Kelly, at 26 he seems to have been around for longer, and whoever get Clare next would do well to just to put a sticky man marker on him
As for the refereeing there wasn't much for me other than the soft yellow cards, though he was consistent with showing them, he blew for more 'throw balls' than most refs do all season, which is great and the over carrying was spot on..
For limerick they look to have at least another two gears in them, would just like to see more of a goal threat and that main player has retired and coming up against Tipp next week will give us a more of a view on where these teams are at
Clare really miss John Conlan on the edge of the square. They can lop balls into him and if he doesn't win them they're breaking off for the likes of O'Donnell to get onto. They really only managed that once yesterday and got their goal from it. Other than that it was coming out to easy and considering barring Sean Finn that was a novel fullback like you'd have thought Clare would have tried to expose it more.
Limerick v Tipp, Waterford v Cork, Galway v Wexford and the Dubs v Kilkenny this weekend coming should be interesting.
Kilkenny might get a scare vrs dublin but still think they'll have too much in that one.
Cork will be slight favourites over Waterford but with new management in Waterford that could be interesting and the other two are too close to call IMO.
The hurling has been wide open these last few years, been great entertainment and I fully expect another name on the cup this year, with no round robin its all in for the other teams that lose next week and that should produce some cracking games also....
Dublin produced a decent enough performance the other night, that extra game will have moved them on and better prepared for Kilkenny, whether they have enough to get over the line is another thing, will check the handicap score on that one.. Cork, who knows with Cork, they could well do it, Wexford will always have one big game in them, which weekend will that be?
Galway, have slipped slightly, and for no real reason, the squad is very similar to their winning team and some lads are at that good age
So its left to Kilkenny and Tipp and what they will bring, this weekend will show who's been hard at it during lockdown
Tipp went off the boil in 2018. Too.many miles run
They had vmbeen on the go since 2014 I think.
Galway were playing at the top level since 2015 and it is not sustainable
So they took a year off
Like Tipp. Tipp came back rejuvenated.
.
Quote from: seafoid on October 26, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
There was a discussion on twitter yesterday
Kevin Egan
@lonesharkoy
Genuine question - am I the only one who doesn't enjoy hurling as much now that there are 60-70 shots on goal per game, and consequently a huge amount of restarts/stoppages? I feel like a huge amount of the continuity is gone out of the sport at the very elite level.
John Callinan
@jgcallinan_john
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Absolutely agree. Rules and their interpretation promotes possession and running, not striking the ball. Huge Gaelic Football influences
Adrian
@massive357
·
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
It's also changed the way the game is played. There was no decent attacking solo run down the heart of the field in that game today. A joy to watch when it happens
Michael Duignan
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Agreed Kevin. Combination of lighter sliotar, better hurls, more skilful players and massive strength of the modern player.
Enda McEvoy
@lonesharkoy
Couldn't agree more and I've been banging on about this for a few years now. It's become TOO high scoring - and no, that's not a good thing. Scores should be earned.
I enjoyed that exchange on Twitter. If only players had crap hurls, didn't practice or train as much things could be great!!!! I suppose there was a few Offaly lads in the discussion!!!
I'd like to see some actual facts as regards whether the sliotar is lighter or not
I suspect it's not
Back in 2003 there was a fierce controversy over the sliotar as it was actually changed that year - the core was changed to make it bouncier - it behaved like those all-weather sliotars - and there were a lot of complaints from players and media - but I think the new sliotar was abandoned and the old one brought back around the time of the two Cork-Wexford semi-finals
The amount of points in matches has been steadily creeping up over the decades - the Cork team under Jimmy Barry-Murphy in the late 90s were the first that consistently hit big all points totals - but it was not unknown for teams to hit into the 20s points-wise from the 1980s on - Cork even hit 5-31 in the 1982 Munster final, Antrim 1-24 in the 1986 All-Ireland semi-final, Galway 3-20 in the 1987 semi-final, Wexford 2-23 in the 1996 Leinster final etc.
Diarmuid O'Sullivan was pointing from his own 45 in 2001
Noel Skehan was pointing from frees from not far from his own goal back in 1982
I don't think the sliotar is responsible - the bigger bossed hurleys are definitely a factor plus superior fitness and especially possession tactics rather than the old pulling and driving
Hurling as game has changed beyond recognition in terms of style, it's all short, snappy passes to hand now and constant movement, almost pass and move like Barcelona
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 26, 2020, 05:13:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 26, 2020, 04:01:53 PM
There was a discussion on twitter yesterday
Kevin Egan
@lonesharkoy
Genuine question - am I the only one who doesn't enjoy hurling as much now that there are 60-70 shots on goal per game, and consequently a huge amount of restarts/stoppages? I feel like a huge amount of the continuity is gone out of the sport at the very elite level.
John Callinan
@jgcallinan_john
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Absolutely agree. Rules and their interpretation promotes possession and running, not striking the ball. Huge Gaelic Football influences
Adrian
@massive357
·
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
It's also changed the way the game is played. There was no decent attacking solo run down the heart of the field in that game today. A joy to watch when it happens
Michael Duignan
Replying to
@lonesharkoy
Agreed Kevin. Combination of lighter sliotar, better hurls, more skilful players and massive strength of the modern player.
Enda McEvoy
@lonesharkoy
Couldn't agree more and I've been banging on about this for a few years now. It's become TOO high scoring - and no, that's not a good thing. Scores should be earned.
I enjoyed that exchange on Twitter. If only players had crap hurls, didn't practice or train as much things could be great!!!! I suppose there was a few Offaly lads in the discussion!!!
Don't have twitter, but that conversation sounds like they were being dicks or on the piss! Let's bring the game back to the 80's! Christ I loved the 80's hurling and was a massive Galway supporter but it's left behind because we've developed!
Players are stronger, they want them weaker! Hurls have developed? That's not entirely correct, still made from ash, maybe a bigger boss but certainly the stick it the same. Soloing down then middle?! Into a tackle from Maher from Tipp, which will land you in a&e! More skilful players like wtf, do we want less skilled players?
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
Gearoid Hegarty seems to have perfected those flick backhand handpasses that look a bit like a New Zealand rugby offload, Cian Lynch is a dab hand at them as well
I suppose it was about time some innovation was brought to the handpass
My impression is that as well as being lighter yet bigger bossed, hurleys are generally a bit shorter than they used to be, they couldn't be otherwise, difficult to get away with a big wide swing these days, that's why John Mulhall didn't make it with the Kilkenny senior team, if you look at the technique from the old All-Ireland finals from the 50s and 60s some of the technique looks comical, lads holding the hurley by the very tip of the handle and big wide swings
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Quote from: sid waddell on October 26, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
Gearoid Hegarty seems to have perfected those flick backhand handpasses that look a bit like a New Zealand rugby offload, Cian Lynch is a dab hand at them as well
I suppose it was about time some innovation was brought to the handpass
My impression is that as well as being lighter yet bigger bossed, hurleys are generally a bit shorter than they used to be, they couldn't be otherwise, difficult to get away with a big wide swing these days, that's why John Mulhall didn't make it with the Kilkenny senior team, if you look at the technique from the old All-Ireland finals from the 50s and 60s some of the technique looks comical, lads holding the hurley by the very tip of the handle and big wide swings
I thought he didn't play again after his singing at the homecoming??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.
Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 27, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.
Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
I actually thought that too. However, about 2 puckouts later the keeper did exactly the same thing and wasn't pulled so maybe he was warned and just didn't give a shite.
The one on which he was pulled up on was miminal in fairnes, going by the camera angle behind the goals.
Maybe it's a new directive this year.
Tv camera seemed to be in a different place also. Seemed a bit lower. Maybe they could do it as no crowds in so they had more options.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.
Quote from: marty34 on October 27, 2020, 09:19:33 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2020, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on October 27, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Here MR2, I saw that the Clare goalie was pulled for stepping outside the wee square on a puck out on Sunday - throw in ball was awarded, which Limerick won, recycled and Hayes scored.
Now just about 3 mins previous to that, the umpire called the ref in, had a quick chat and play then continued. If, and I don't know, the umpire was telling the ref that the goalie was stepping out of the square as he hit his puck outs, would the ref not have warned the goalie and said, I'm watching you on the puck outs?
I actually thought that too. However, about 2 puckouts later the keeper did exactly the same thing and wasn't pulled so maybe he was warned and just didn't give a shite.
The one on which he was pulled up on was miminal in fairnes, going by the camera angle behind the goals.
Maybe it's a new directive this year.
Tv camera seemed to be in a different place also. Seemed a bit lower. Maybe they could do it as no crowds in so they had more options.
The decision was by the umpire when he stepped to the side and raised his right arm, as a signal to the ref that he had stepped outside the box, it was minimal but he probably was warned, when called in that time the ref didn't talk to the keeper at all. and in the second half he stepped outside a few more times with no hop ball awarded ..
Why he had to do that when all he had to do was speak into the mic I don't know, its not really the umpires job to call that I don't think, so bringing attention to it may work against the ref
Some refs have their thing, the ref refused to have quick ball from puck outs until he was ready, there is no rule to wait on the ref to blow for a puck out, once the ball goes wide and as long as the players are outside the 21 the keeper can puck it out
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.
IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.
I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.
Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.
Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.
It's modern hurling as we know it.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.
IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.
I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.
Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.
Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.
It's modern hurling as we know it.
So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?
You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score! I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?
Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.
There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.
Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 11:23:55 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.
IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.
I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.
Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.
Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.
It's modern hurling as we know it.
So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?
You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score! I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?
Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.
There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.
Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar
Who mentioned heavier?
I'd be concerned that the contested ball is totally eradicated from hurling and we start getting the damp squip we saw last Sunday afternoon when it gets into the realms of basketball where a score is almost expected every possession and turn overs are the exception rather than the rule.
I know that is maybe an exaggeration but we're going down that track IMO.
Was last Sunday not just a case of a far superior team imposing their dominance? Whether that was down to absentees or Limericks overall game is another question. Looking forward to a few more tighter contests this weekend.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:39:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 27, 2020, 11:23:55 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on October 27, 2020, 11:11:36 AM
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 09:33:15 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 26, 2020, 11:52:35 PM
Quote from: didlyi on October 26, 2020, 10:54:53 PM
Its a good topic and becomes more apparent when teams rack up huge scores as limerick did. The hurl bos has changed for sure, the players are more athletic and the ball is probably less prone to moisture. All this making it easier to score. But the handpass has also been perfected now more than ever before and used alot more than in the past and Limerick use it to great effect. The pop pass out to a man in space is very prevalent in todays game but can become a bit boring to watch over and over again. The problem as I see it is its very difficult for the opposition to intercept a handpass. Unlike a stick pass you cant block it or hook it with the hurl. In fact there is very little a player can do to stop a handpass in hurling. Instead they swarm the player in possession which then has many other consequences... More spare hand fouls, more rucks and ultimately easier scores for the player now in space. I would love to see the handpass either been reduce to 1 or none or change to make it more difficult. The ball will stay in play longer and the game becomes less start stop.
Leave the ball alone and yellow is fine too.
If the ball is being popped out of a ruck to space then it's speeding up the game, one man tackle is plenty, mark the space where the hand pass is going to. You can block a hand pass with your hurl, no foul there.
If we apply the rules properly on the hand pass then it's more difficult to complete within the rules, I thought there was a good few calls on Sunday by the ref for improper hand passes..
The O'Connor lads from Cork were into the new design of the bigger boss, that was over 20 odd years ago, there was then regulations came in on size of boss, stick sizes would have been generally a 36/38 that's dropped to a 35 mainly, Joe Deane being the main player I seen with a low handling of the hurl.
Hurling is fine, teams all weekend (undr20's) were looking 30 or 40 yard passes into space, teams will adapt to that, like they did to Corks running game when they were on top.
In five years there'll be a new tactic.. Kilkenny played the traditional way, ball into forwards and let them win their own ball, served them well for many a year.
Speeding up the game should not be the be all and end all. If the game gets any faster there will be a score every minute. What Im suggesting will keep the ball in play for longer but not necessarily slow the game down. Blocking Hand passes is very very rare. I dont buy the 'game is fine and leave it alone' either. Every game needs at least a discussion.
IMO the ball needs to change, it's far too easy to flick the ball over from 80 plus meters.
I know there's examples of that of the rock and the likes back in the early 00's but he was a beast of a man and that was the exception rather than the rule.
if you'd a keeper getting 80 metres on a puck out that was good, now they can all do it and some more and not all of that is conditioning.
Change the core of the ball to a deader PU and ensure that there's more hurling required for a score to come off.
Hurl shapes are cyclic and I think the large boss of the O'Connors of Cork era isn't as prevalent now. Take a look at the length and shape of Guillanes hurl, now he's a big man and I'd hazard his hurl is 34" or 35" at a push, same with Kyle Hayes. The smaller the hurl the easier to get a shot off in close confines.
Hurling is now a possession game, rather than a contested ball game (although Kilkenny are still happy to lump it long and see what happens) hence the quick puckouts as deployed by Clare. They knew there was little point in firing long balls on top of the Limerick half backs and were trying to win possession 40, 50 metres out and work through the lines and bypass that halfback line. Expect Wexford, Galway, Cork in particular who haven't really solved their lack of a ball winning forward to supplement Harnedy, Tipp and Dublin to be at the same this weekend.
It's modern hurling as we know it.
So when the heavier ball comes in and lads develop better ability to strike it will we go for a heavier ball again?
You try flicking the ball 80 yards now, it ain't that easy, and score! I suppose our age doesn't help and we are out of practice but that is the main reason as to why they are doing it, far stronger than the Michael Duignan's of the past and trained a lot more. If we get bigger scores what difference?
Players need to adopt to the teams and that will change the game, striking the ball over the bar from distance is a great skill, considering football they won't shoot unless its 10 yards out, and miss.
There was always some possession in teams, that Wexford team that beat Kilkenny played possession and short passes, as did the Galway team when they beat Kilkenny in their pomp.
Go for the heavier ball and I give it a season before the distances are the similar
Who mentioned heavier?
I'd be concerned that the contested ball is totally eradicated from hurling and we start getting the damp squip we saw last Sunday afternoon when it gets into the realms of basketball where a score is almost expected every possession and turn overs are the exception rather than the rule.
I know that is maybe an exaggeration but we're going down that track IMO.
Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?
The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.
Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides
Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides
I say keep hurling the way it is.
Probably on Sunday was no real pressure on Limerick's shooters. Clare blocked up the middle third and Limerick just shot over that with precision. They said, ok you block the middle and we'll shoot points all game long. Your choice!
I can't believe, after KK V Tipp shootout in 2014, that people want less scores etc. Madness.
The game evloves, that's life. In 20 years time, it'll have moved on again. When you look back at TG4's golden era, the hurling is poor, compared to the modern era. Compare that at the time with hurling 20 years before that, then the same is true. That's the evolution of the game.
Years ago everything in the air was pulled on, nowadays it's a possession based game i.e. clean catches and own the ball. The skill level, imo, is far higher nowadays as everything is done at such a high speed.
In GAA, people want rule changes every year just for the sake of it.
Hurling is great again!!
[/quote]
Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?
The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.
Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides
Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides
[/quote]
On the contrary, the rucks are being caused because of the frenzy to get the ball into the hand....Once its in the hand then the pop handpass out ends the ruck. If you couldn't handpass the ball out of a ruck there probably wouldn't be a ruck in the first place as players would be better off scooping it out or playing it along the ground out of a ruck as they used to do before.
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 02:52:34 PM
Changing the composite of the ball to be more dense? Would that make the ball travel less?
The hand pass is in the rules, changing it will create bigger and longer rucks IMO as the ball will be unable to be released quicker and the player will have to drop the ball, that'll create a ruck of players trying to gain possession. which is ugly enough at times, a good old fashion pull on the ball is not the done thing anymore as it gives away possession.
Clare hit 23 points 10 from play and 13 from frees and hit 6 wides
Limerick hit 36 points 26 from play (which is huge but more telling on how Clare defended IMO) 10 from frees and 11 wides
[/quote]
On the contrary, the rucks are being caused because of the frenzy to get the ball into the hand....Once its in the hand then the pop handpass out ends the ruck. If you couldn't handpass the ball out of a ruck there probably wouldn't be a ruck in the first place as players would be better off scooping it out or playing it along the ground out of a ruck as they used to do before.
[/quote]
Yes hand passes are delivered from rucks that's natural, some were saying it's basketball type hurling and that's not the case.. Plenty balls won and played back or across the pitch
Possession is key in all these sports now, hold the ball play it to the best man in space to score.. 50/50 balls have no place in the game at that level, a defenders dream, even for a wee man like me a hopeful ball into defense was always better than the short cross field balls that came my way (Johhnycool's club tortured me with it back in the day)
In my 40 years of watching hurling the developments have always been for the better, bar that unpredictable ball that was made years ago. the dropping of the handpass goal was a must, what were they thinking with that one!?
Other than the forced issues with the penalty takers taking 15 yards to smack the ball, its mostly stayed true to the sport
It's great to see a hurling discussion.
https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1
Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1
Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.
Managers will work hat out, as they have done over the years
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/hurling-championship-2020-county-by-county-guide-1.4386995
Hurling Championship 2020: County-by-county guide
Seán Moran runs the rule over the 10 squads competing for the Liam MacCarthy
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 05:26
Seán Moran
Leinster
DUBLIN
Manager: Mattie Kenny (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 33/1; Leinster 10/1
First up: v Laois, tbc, October 24th, 6.0
Last year: Qualified from Leinster but shocked by Laois
Longest year: All-Ireland final, December 14th, 1924, beat Galway
Where we left them: After a humdrum league in which they won the obvious fixtures against Laois and Carlow but lost to all of the better counties.Unlucky versus Wexford but well beaten by Kilkenny and Clare.
Where they are: Still not enough new players coming through, especially in attack where All Star nominated back Chris Crummey is likely to relocate. Defence is sound but lacking wallop up front.
GALWAY
Galway's Fintan Burke. Photograph: Inpho/Cathal Noonan
Manager: Shane O'Neill (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 4/1; Leinster 13/8
First up: v Wexford, tbc, October 31st, 6.15
Last year: Failed to get out of Leinster
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final (1898), December 17th, 1899, lost to Tipperary
Where we left them: In a league quarter-final after an improving league campaign under new management, with Shane O'Neill running the rule over 31 players, including the promising Evan Niland and Darren Morrissey.
Where they are: Time has allowed Fintan Burke regain full fitness and find luminous form for St Thomas at full back, which frees up serial All Star Dáithí Burke for deployment farther out or vice versa.
KILKENNY
Kilkenny's Adrian Mullen. Photograph: Inpho/Gary Carr
Manager: Brian Cody (22nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 9/2; Leinster 11/8
First up: v Dublin/Laois, tbc, November 1st, tbc
Last year: All-Ireland and Leinster finalists, they eliminated All-Ireland champions Limerick
Longest year: All-Ireland final, December 12th, 1909, beat Tipperary
Where we left them: Had qualified for league quarter-finals but form was understandably underwhelming given the resting of senior Ballyhale players.
Where they are: Fully restored if positive tales of Adrian Mullen's cruciate recovery are accurate, Kilkenny haven't appreciably restocked but retain a strong spine and the Shamrocks players are again in form. Proved last year that they can take almost anyone – but everyone?
LAOIS
Mark Kavanagh of Laois. Photogrxaph: Inpho/Ryan Byrne
Manager: Eddie Brennan (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 1000/1; Leinster 100/1
First up: v Dublin, tbc, October 24th, 6.0
Last year: McDonagh Cup winners, shocked Dublin and lost to Tipperary
Longest year: All-Ireland final, October 24th, 1924, beat Cork
Where we left them: In not bad form at end of the league'having got the crucial win over Carlow to secure Division 1 status and reasonably competitive elsewhere.
• Nicky English: Extra game will improve both Dublin and already formidable Limerick
• Limerick score 36 points to overpower Tony Kelly's solo act
• Inspirational Burke points the way as Dublin clear opening hurdle
Where they are: Losing the intended advantage of getting at least four championship matches in good conditions, they have traditional one shot, against Dublin. Prolific Mark Kavanagh's fitness a worry and other absentees leave them weaker that last year.
WEXFORD
Manager: David Fitzgerald (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 12/1 and Leinster 7/2
First up: v Galway, tbc, October 31st, 6.15
Last year: Leinster champions, lost All-Ireland semi-final against Tipp
Longest year: All-Ireland final, November 20th, 1910, beat Limerick
Where we left them: In league quarter-final after a good run with just one defeat, against Clare. Emergence of Joe O'Connor at corner back adds to David Fitzgerald's options.
Where they are: Leinster champions but still short of top table reservation. Full strength. Covid facilitates Liam Ryan's recover from injury but removes the crowds on which Wexford thrive. Will they adapt running game in wintry conditions?
Munster
CLARE
David McInerney of Clare. Photograph: Inpho/Ryan Byrne
Manager: Brian Lohan (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 20/1; Munster 10/1
First up: v Limerick, Thurles, October 25th, 3.45
Last year: Didn't qualify from Munster
Longest year: All-Ireland final, October 18th, 1914, beat Laois
Where we left them: Unbeaten and top of their group, which qualifies them for abbreviated league's final but also with captain John Conlon injured.
Where they are: Fallen back, having lost players with Conlon's return still a few weeks off. Peter Duggan hasn't returned. Still some serious performers, like Tony Kelly, David McInerney and Shane O'Donnell but a bit one-paced at the back. Struggled in recent challenges.
CORK
Cork's Séamus Harnedy. Photograph: Inpho/Laszlo Geczo
Manager: Kieran Kingston (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 7/1; Munster11/4
First up: v Waterford, Thurles, October 31st, 3.30
Last year: Lost All-Ireland quarter-final to Kilkenny
Longest year: All-Ireland final (1903), November 19th, 1905, beat London
Where we left them: Inconsistent league campaign in Kieran Kingston's first year back.
Where they are: Going impressively in challenges, whatever that indicates, but they have great pace around the field. Improved under-age supply picking up and some fresh attacking talent emerged in the county championship, like Alan Connolly, but there are injury concerns with Darragh Fitzgibbon gone for a while. Defensive issues also don't look resolved, either.
LIMERICK
Limerick's Richie English after the 2019 loss to Kilkenny. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
Manager: John Kiely (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 11/4; Munster 5/2
First up: v Clare, Thurles, October 25th, 3.45
Last year: Munster champions, beaten by Kilkenny in All-Ireland semi-final
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final, December 3rd, 1911, beat Galway
Where we left them: On 100 per cent record, which puts them in a league final (doubling up with championship opener) against Clare but also with significant injury to Richie English.
Where they are: Mike Casey's bad injury exacerbates English's absence given comparative lack of resources in full-back line. Main contenders, fuelled by last year's disappointment. Shane Dowling has retired and Na Piarsaigh club mate David Dempsey is injured.
TIPPERARY
Tipperary's Patrick Maher. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
Manager: Liam Sheedy (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 10/3; Munster 15/8
First up: v Clare/Limerick, tbc, November 1st, 4.0
Last year: All-Ireland champions, beating Kilkenny
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final (1898), December 17th, 1899, beat Galway
Where we left them: Shaping up like any other season defending the All-Ireland for Tipp. One win out of five in the league.
Where they are: Delay distances them from downbeat league and facilitates the return of Bonner Maher from long-term injury. County championship's best player, John Meagher, is called up but will he translate to the top level? Good young players as well as proven performers.
WATERFORD
Manager: Liam Cahill (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 14/1; Munster 13/2
First up: v Cork, Thurles, October 31st, 3.30
Last year: Didn't qualify from Munster
Longest year: All-Ireland final (replay), October 4th, 1959, beat Kilkenny
Where we left them: Encouraging league under new manager Liam Cahill dimmed the controversy of panel cuts, reaching quarter-final.
Where they are: Badly hit by Pauric Mahony's long-term injury although delayed season and county championship produced one major bonus: Tadhg de Búrca's return from injury and to top form means that Austin Gleeson can move to the forwards, the sector where the team needs greater impact. Well positioned in the long grass for the meeting with Cork.
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1
Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.
What's a punt pass? Edit, its in the small print. hit and hope ;D
Interesting enough stats those and as I said hurling is now a possession based game and reinforces my point about Kilkenny still the most inclined to fire the "punt" pass into their forwards and allow the likes of Colin Fennelly, Walter Walsh and TJ Reid to win their own ball.
That's a fierce amount of handpassing from Laois and to carry off that type of gameplan needs huge levels of fitness for the support play.
I'd say most hand and stick passes happen in working through the lines like most teams do now in attempts to avoid sweepers, deep lying half backs and the likes.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElFyGMcXIAA7FME?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.
Quote from: didlyi on October 28, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.
Don't get me wrong as the game last Sunday was hopefully an outlier exacerbated by the lack of atmosphere and we'll know more with the four games at Liam McCarthy level this weekend but there's always been a move to low risk, high percentages possession game and handpassing football like is a big part of that.
I can see the 2020 stats having even more handpassing and stick passing and less punts and I'm not keen on it either but sports like eveything evolve and sometimes not for the better.
Great scores are more important than high scores IMO and by that I mean the amount of effort, skill, bravery required to get it means a lot more to me than someone receiving a run of the mill handpass and tapping it over from 60 or 70 metres.
The great Tipp v KK game wasn't great because of the scoreline, it was great because of the epic battle at both ends of the field where scores were hard to come by and great defenders had a chance of preventing great forwards from scoring. Same with the epic Galway and KK games in 2012.
We've lost a bit of that but its early days yet.
Quote from: johnnycool on October 29, 2020, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: didlyi on October 28, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.
Don't get me wrong as the game last Sunday was hopefully an outlier exacerbated by the lack of atmosphere and we'll know more with the four games at Liam McCarthy level this weekend but there's always been a move to low risk, high percentages possession game and handpassing football like is a big part of that.
I can see the 2020 stats having even more handpassing and stick passing and less punts and I'm not keen on it either but sports like eveything evolve and sometimes not for the better.
Great scores are more important than high scores IMO and by that I mean the amount of effort, skill, bravery required to get it means a lot more to me than someone receiving a run of the mill handpass and tapping it over from 60 or 70 metres.
The great Tipp v KK game wasn't great because of the scoreline, it was great because of the epic battle at both ends of the field where scores were hard to come by and great defenders had a chance of preventing great forwards from scoring. Same with the epic Galway and KK games in 2012.
We've lost a bit of that but its early days yet.
Fully agree with the JC.
And I agree aswell. Sure this weekend could be completely different especially given the weather forecast, but in general over the last few years theres been alot of teams playing the quick ball to the free man and then shoot for score. For that we get high scores and in some cases at the same time lot of wides aswell. Limerick and Galway appear to do this the most IMO.
So we want:
50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession
As an ex manager, on the things above that's not how I'd set my team up, it would be, retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:
50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession
As an ex manager, on the things above that's not how I'd set my team up, it would be, retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.
You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!
Quote from: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:
50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession
As an ex manager, on the things above that's not how I'd set my team up, it would be, retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.
You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!
I want a deader sliotar that takes a bit more hurling to get it from one end of the field to the other. LAds are flicking the current sliotars over from 60 to 70 metres. Yes, S&C has improved, but not that much.
IF and that's a big IF we see more referees blowing up the head high tackling, the overcarrying, the spare arm dragging and the dodgy handpassing this weekend then I think we may actually see a better game develop.
It'll take players and coaches time to understand that these things will be punished whereas in the recent past they haven't been and maybe coach tackling for the ball like the good Offaly teams with their flicks and interceptions were as good as anything to behold.
Now for some finches orange to wash down the hang sandwiches ;D
Quote from: johnnycool on October 30, 2020, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:
50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession
As an ex manager, on the things above that's not how I'd set my team up, it would be, retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.
You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!
I want a deader sliotar that takes a bit more hurling to get it from one end of the field to the other. LAds are flicking the current sliotars over from 60 to 70 metres. Yes, S&C has improved, but not that much.
IF and that's a big IF we see more referees blowing up the head high tackling, the overcarrying, the spare arm dragging and the dodgy handpassing this weekend then I think we may actually see a better game develop.
It'll take players and coaches time to understand that these things will be punished whereas in the recent past they haven't been and maybe coach tackling for the ball like the good Offaly teams with their flicks and interceptions were as good as anything to behold.
Now for some finches orange to wash down the hang sandwiches ;D
Good luck!
I thought that the ref did pull the hand pass a lot last week
He did and rightly so. Its very difficult for refs to see what we can see on HD tv and expect him to know the difference between a ball that leaves the hand for 2mm before being palmed or a throw. Change it so that the ball must go from hurl to handpass or from one hand to the other hand for the pass. Problem solved and looks alot better too.
Quote from: didlyi on October 30, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
He did and rightly so. Its very difficult for refs to see what we can see on HD tv and expect him to know the difference between a ball that leaves the hand for 2mm before being palmed or a throw. Change it so that the ball must go from hurl to handpass or from one hand to the other hand for the pass. Problem solved and looks alot better too.
I agree on that, that's a clear passage of play
Wintery conditions for Croke Park & Semple Stadium today.
Should be interesting.
Will make the ball heavier, should keep people happy 😂
Déise giving it a good lash
Kilkenny ruthless
Reid is different gravy
Better than Shefflin ever was
Dublin doing a fair impression of Kilkenny's tactics in the second half of the 2019 All-Ireland here
Lumping balls in on top of a completely isolated Liam Rushe
Crummey had a goal chance and needed to kick it in but threw a hurley at it and was hooked
Losing the plot altogether now, basic skill errors are creeping in all over the place
Cats in cruise control at the moment and on top all over the pitch
Some scoreline at halftime
Dublin have dropped off the pace a good bit this last few years. Reid a machine.
It would be a big coaching statement by Liam Cahill to win this
Waterford coming in today were the classic under the radar* team
Don't think it would be that big a surprise in the real sense however, people have completely forgotten about them because of the last two years but they still have real quality, it's about time they came again
Cork haven't kicked on at all from 2017 and 2018
*cliche
Didn't see this result coming, thought Cork were a good thing
Don't even know where the Dublin game was on but some comeback from them to get it to one point.
f**k it anyway
Got back from 15 down at half time to level and then lost it by a point
Dillon makes such a difference
Jesus! Kilkenny held on in the end
Quote from: sid waddell on October 31, 2020, 05:28:37 PM
f**k it anyway
Got back from 15 down at half time to level and then lost it by a point
Dillon makes such a difference
He was excelllent. Don't know why Rushe started. Was very rusty. Reid is the best hurler ever. He's operating on another planet.
In saying that, they were lucky to win but Cody will have something to work on this week. In a way, Mattie will have something to work on also. Maybe if Dublin have a bit more belief. I thought they'd have started the game quicker, after last weeks game, but they were sluggish enough.
Wexford don't look great.
Wexford very poor indeed.
They just couldn't get their running game going. Galway are excellent. Very well organised and a good range of scorers.
Fintan Burke and Concannon have been excellent.
Limerick and Galway the clear standouts so far
Tipp will have something to say about that tomorrow
Hard to see beyond those three despite Waterford's welcome return to form today
I doubt will Davy stay in Wexford unless they recover to make the All-Ireland final at least, they held the county final in Wexford as far back as August 23rd and it was all for naught
Shane O'Neill looks like a very astute appointment by Galway
Davy looks to me to be someone with a shortish lifespan so maybe that has expired. He has done well there though.
Yep limerick, tipp and Galway the three to catch so far assuming tipp are what they were.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 31, 2020, 05:32:58 PM
Jesus! Kilkenny held on in the end
Very sloppy of them to let Dublin back in
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 31, 2020, 08:47:15 PM
Davy looks to me to be someone with a shortish lifespan so maybe that has expired. He has done well there though.
Yep limerick, tipp and Galway the three to catch so far assuming tipp are what they were.
I wouldn't be putting ourselves up on any pedestal just yet. Yes, good win this evening but it has to be viewed in the context of the the opposition and Wexford were very poor. They hardly raised a gallop and their second half performance was abysmal IMO. KK will be a different animal altogether despite their scare in the earlier game this afternoon.
That's horrendous weather!!
Certainly the worst I've see
How many steps for Gearoid Hegarty take and get away with?
Tipp and Cork beaten in Munster and Kilkenny brought to a point by Dublin. It wasnt long since that would have been seen as a major shakeup in the hurling championship. Times they are a changing.
Quote from: didlyi on November 01, 2020, 07:33:50 PM
Tipp and Cork beaten in Munster and Kilkenny brought to a point by Dublin. It wasnt long since that would have been seen as a major shakeup in the hurling championship. Times they are a changing.
KK haven't managed to regain the standards of the glory days. Cork haven't won for 15 years. Tipp may have peaked.
The firm won 1 of the last 3
Quote from: seafoid on November 01, 2020, 08:00:09 PM
Quote from: didlyi on November 01, 2020, 07:33:50 PM
Tipp and Cork beaten in Munster and Kilkenny brought to a point by Dublin. It wasnt long since that would have been seen as a major shakeup in the hurling championship. Times they are a changing.
KK haven't managed to regain the standards of the glory days. Cork haven't won for 15 years. Tipp may have peaked.
The firm won 1 of the last 3
Jaysus, Limerick were impressive in a different way again yesterday, they made less mistakes than Tipp who are known as a great team of stylish hurlers in horrendous conditions and then spring lads from the bench without breaking stride.
They'll take some beating this championship although Galway look better placed than most to do it but seeing that Fintan Burke hurt the shoulder and the other two Burkes might not make the Leinster Final they might do well to get passed Kilkenny who still favour the old punt into TJ Reid and co.
Its between those three IMO although Tipp might regroup in the qualifiers but games week on week could take their toll on those aging legs. Waterford could spring a surprise yet, but not in the Munster final.
Davy is paving his path out of Wexford, Cork, I don't know where to being, they're just meh at the minute and will need a favourable draw of Clare, Laois or Dublin(even that would be tight) to prolong their stay in the championship.
Kilkenny have to be respected based on pedigree alone and they could pull a big performance out of the bag somewhere along the line but ultimately I think they're limited enough and that will be exposed
Tipp can't deal with Limerick at all, that's the second year in a row Limerick have essentially routed them
Tipp got a soft enough All-Ireland last year in truth, they beat Laois, Wexford and Kilkenny in the knockout rounds and didn't have to deal with Limerick or Galway
Wouldn't put it past them to still make the final but it's hard to see them beat Limerick
Dublin play Cork next weekend in the qualifiers - Cork were very bad against Waterford and something appears wrong there - despite losing to Kilkenny on Saturday, Dublin should come out of the game with the firm knowledge that they can play, and they have really good competitive hurling under their belts already
Dublin have never beaten Cork in either my lifetime or my father's lifetime, I think they might beat them this time - it'll be Dublin's third week in a row playing - to reach the All-Ireland final, they'd have to play for six weeks in a row
Back in 2013, Dublin played the best hurling I've ever seen from a Dublin team when playing five weeks in a row
There's a possible path to the semi-finals opening up here I think
If Dublin beat Cork, the next round would be against either Wexford or Tipp
I'd fancy us against Wexford but not Tipp
Then get Waterford in the quarter-finals in week 5, definitely would be winnable
At this stage a Limerick-Galway final looks short odds
Quote from: sid waddell on November 02, 2020, 09:59:44 AM
Kilkenny have to be respected based on pedigree alone and they could pull a big performance out of the bag somewhere along the line but ultimately I think they're limited enough and that will be exposed
Tipp can't deal with Limerick at all, that's the second year in a row Limerick have essentially routed them
Tipp got a soft enough All-Ireland last year in truth, they beat Laois, Wexford and Kilkenny in the knockout rounds and didn't have to deal with Limerick or Galway
Wouldn't put it past them to still make the final but it's hard to see them beat Limerick
Dublin play Cork next weekend in the qualifiers - Cork were very bad against Waterford and something appears wrong there - despite losing to Kilkenny on Saturday, Dublin should come out of the game with the firm knowledge that they can play, and they have really good competitive hurling under their belts already
Dublin have never beaten Cork in either my lifetime or my father's lifetime, I think they might beat them this time - it'll be Dublin's third week in a row playing - to reach the All-Ireland final, they'd have to play for six weeks in a row
Back in 2013, Dublin played the best hurling I've ever seen from a Dublin team when playing five weeks in a row
There's a possible path to the semi-finals opening up here I think
If Dublin beat Cork, the next round would be against either Wexford or Tipp
I'd fancy us against Wexford but not Tipp
Then get Waterford in the quarter-finals in week 5, definitely would be winnable
At this stage a Limerick-Galway final looks short odds
Tipp haven't won 2 in a row since the 60s. Limerick and Galway seem to be the front runners but it's like a soccer tournament this year over 6 or 7 weeks.
Injuries will be v important. There could be a few surprises.
Even though the final last year was Tipp vs Kilkenny, I can't help feeling that Limerick were the best team in the country. They'll take some stopping this year.
The draw has been made;
SHC Qualifier Round 1
Dublin v Cork
Laois v Clare
SHC Qualifier Round 2
Wexford v Round 1 winner
Tipperary v Round 1 winner
Neutral venues I presume, Dublin will fancy a crack at Cork and might just do it.
Clare will be favourites for the other game, but they'll need one of Peter Duggan or John Conlan to have a focal point in their attack as those other nippy forwards need a foil to get going.
Tipp will be happy with the weeks break and so will wee Davy.
Dublin Cork should be interesting.
I still think Cork, or moreso Horgan, will maybe put Dublin away but it would be good to see the likes of Dublin push on through a bit.
Clare must be very frustrating to support. They have huge talent in there but they just haven't seemed to get it together for a good number of years. In saying that they should have too much for Laois. If they were to beat Laois and got Wexford they could maybe get through round 2 as well. (Likewise dublin cork winners unless there is a big improvement in Wexford).
I wouldn't expect any of the round 1 winners to beat Tipp though didn't see their game yesterday so I'm less sure what they're made of this year.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 02, 2020, 01:01:03 PM
The draw has been made;
SHC Qualifier Round 1
Dublin v Cork
Laois v Clare
SHC Qualifier Round 2
Wexford v Round 1 winner
Tipperary v Round 1 winner
Neutral venues I presume, Dublin will fancy a crack at Cork and might just do it.
Clare will be favourites for the other game, but they'll need one of Peter Duggan or John Conlan to have a focal point in their attack as those other nippy forwards need a foil to get going.
Tipp will be happy with the weeks break and so will wee Davy.
The Dubs are missing natural forwards.
Great to see Laois in the mix. Would love to see Antrim playing at this level.
Tom Semples field for Cork and Dublin (3.45), but Nowlan Park for Laois v Clare (1.15).
Clare were pulling away .7 ahead then had a player sent off
Laois are flying now
Quote from: seafoid on November 07, 2020, 02:25:57 PM
Clare were pulling away .7 ahead then had a player sent off
Laois are flying now
Laois very unlucky today!!
This is pure cat from Dublin, and not in the Kilkenny sense
Some of the lads must have been up all night the last few nights watching the election
Playing like it anyway
This is going to be a red victory over blue
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 05:03:51 PM
This is pure cat from Dublin, and not in the Kilkenny sense
Some of the lads must have been up all night the last few nights watching the election
Playing like it anyway
This is going to be a red victory over blue
Poor enough from Dublin. Never looked like closing that 4/5 pts gap at any stage. Cork just kept them at arms length through the game.
Regards Cork, hard to know. Still not convinced by them, although the performance had to be upped from the Waterford game.
Tipp v Cork
Wex v Clare
Interesting draw. Tipp, almost, Cork always a good one.
Davy against Clare too makes it interesting. Tipp favourites and maybe Wexford. I'd expect Tipp to win but Wexford Clare is tough to call. I'd say maybe Wexford to win.
Quote from: marty34 on November 07, 2020, 06:41:56 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 07, 2020, 05:03:51 PM
This is pure cat from Dublin, and not in the Kilkenny sense
Some of the lads must have been up all night the last few nights watching the election
Playing like it anyway
This is going to be a red victory over blue
Poor enough season for Dublin
Laois made more progress.
Poor enough from Dublin. Never looked like closing that 4/5 pts gap at any stage. Cork just kept them at arms length through the game.
Regards Cork, hard to know. Still not convinced by them, although the performance had to be upped from the Waterford game.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on November 02, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Even though the final last year was Tipp vs Kilkenny, I can't help feeling that Limerick were the best team in the country. They'll take some stopping this year.
Last year KK took Limerick out and made it an easy enough final for Tipp
If one of Tipp Limerick or Galway take their eyes off the prize then Kilkenny will do a number on these teams should they meet before the final, its whether or not Kilkenny have two games in them ... Cork have the ability to sink a team but I'm not sure if Cork have everyone available or firing on all cylinders..
It's Limericks to lose, Tipp to bounce back and Galway the dark horse
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 09, 2020, 11:05:56 AM
If one of Tipp Limerick or Galway take their eyes off the prize then Kilkenny will do a number on these teams should they meet before the final, its whether or not Kilkenny have two games in them ... Cork have the ability to sink a team but I'm not sure if Cork have everyone available or firing on all cylinders..
It's Limericks to lose, Tipp to bounce back and Galway the dark horse
Cork won't be able to handle the physicality of the likes of Limerick, Galway or even Kilkenny, especially their defence. They might give Tipp a rattle though if it's an open enough game. Would still see the Tipp forwards troubling the scoreboard more though. Cork haven't found that balance yet.
I can see Wexford beating Clare alright as Clare haven't clicked and don't look like doing so, but no matter what both will have a short championship, if not this weekend, then the next.
Waterford need to be able to repeat those performances but it'll be in a quarterfinal they'll have to produce it again probably against Tipp or Wexford. Then we'll know what we're looking at with them.
Currently for me the AI is between Galway and Limerick with dogged Kilkenny next in the mix.
You'd imagine Limerick would be prepped for KK this year if they came at them like that though like you guys say they have something in them. They are probably just not quite strong enough so everything needs to line up - e.g.a sending off and they are toast as they can not play with that intensity.
If there's anything in Cork it'll come out against Tipp so that one will be interesting to see. They are a county that comes out of nowhere every once in a while.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 12:30:11 PM
You'd imagine Limerick would be prepped for KK this year if they came at them like that though like you guys say they have something in them. They are probably just not quite strong enough so everything needs to line up - e.g.a sending off and they are toast as they can not play with that intensity.
If there's anything in Cork it'll come out against Tipp so that one will be interesting to see. They are a county that comes out of nowhere every once in a while.
Cork haven't produced a mushroom hurler in quite a while although Mark Landers on a podcast was looking for Niall Cashman thrown in on the back of his club performances and also to put a bit more bite into their defending which is pretty passive and with Sean O'Donoghue missing it seems they'll need someone else to fill that sticky corner back role he's very good at.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 09:04:42 AM
Tipp v Cork
Wex v Clare
Good draw for Wexford, just what they need to get back on the horse
Clare look like they're going nowhere and I don't think Brian Lohan will last that long there
Can see the winners of these two games taking out the defeated provincial finalists, which I expect will be Waterford and Kilkenny
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 09:04:42 AM
Tipp v Cork
Wex v Clare
Good draw for Wexford, just what they need to get back on the horse
Clare look like they're going nowhere and I don't think Brian Lohan will last that long there
Can see the winners of these two games taking out the defeated provincial finalists, which I expect will be Waterford and Kilkenny
I agree about Wexford. Davy should have the inside track on the Clare players and they haven't looked good since the restart.
Cork v Tipp will be very interesting. Normally I would think Tipp have too much but Cork were very good the last day out, could be an upset here with the All Ireland champs going out.
As for the provincial finals like everyone else I think Limerick look just too strong for Waterford.
As for Leinster, no man ever got rich betting against Kilkenny, Cody will find a way.
Well it looks like strawberries can't survive in the winter
Wexford have fallen flat on their face and are 10 down to Clare inside the last 10 minutes
Davy is surely coming to the end of the road
Could see Eddie Brennan taking over for next year
Clare 1-21 Wexford 0-17 FT
Tony Kelly scored 1-15
Wexford's loss to Tipperary last year really does stick out as a terrible missed opportunity the further away it from we get
Think there will be a lot of dissent down there especially after what happened with the club championship - Davy made a rod for his own back by insisting it finish so early - you can get away with that if you perform in the championship but it's been a real disaster for Wexford
Unreal win for down. Beat offaly 3-2 on penalties. No one had gave them a chance. Brillant performance.
The wee six is hurling country now
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 03:47:12 PM
Clare 1-21 Wexford 0-17 FT
Tony Kelly scored 1-15
Wexford's loss to Tipperary last year really does stick out as a terrible missed opportunity the further away it from we get
Think there will be a lot of dissent down there especially after what happened with the club championship - Davy made a rod for his own back by insisting it finish so early - you can get away with that if you perform in the championship but it's been a real disaster for Wexford
Tony Kelly is some hurler. 3 unreal points in the first half.
All nailed on already.
Another year for Offaly in the Christy Ring Cup after losing to Down on penalties today in the Christy Ring Cup semi final.
Cork are liking this and Tipp aren't liking it at all
Rebels point up against a strong breeze with six or seven minutes left to half-time
Smashing goal by Horgan but the Tipp defence went to sleep
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 14, 2020, 03:53:15 PM
Unreal win for down. Beat offaly 3-2 on penalties. No one had gave them a chance. Brillant performance.
Fantastic result for Down
Quote from: sid waddell on November 09, 2020, 01:42:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 09, 2020, 09:04:42 AM
Tipp v Cork
Wex v Clare
Good draw for Wexford, just what they need to get back on the horse
Clare look like they're going nowhere and I don't think Brian Lohan will last that long there
Can see the winners of these two games taking out the defeated provincial finalists, which I expect will be Waterford and Kilkenny
Wexford have been very disappointing. They never kicked on from last year
One burst of scores and that's that
Goals won that game for Tipperary.
Down beat Offaly on penalties in the Christy ring. That's unexpected.
Tipp did well to hang in there against the wind, goals made the difference alright. Im not sure if three weeks on the trot was too much for Cork but they really didn't kick on in the second half
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 14, 2020, 05:41:07 PM
Down beat Offaly on penalties in the Christy ring. That's unexpected.
Unexpected but great to see. Well played Down. Feel slightly for Offaly as they would be my favourite county outside Antrim. Another year in the Christy Ring for Offaly, will Fennelly stay on?
Quote from: up the rovers on November 14, 2020, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 14, 2020, 05:41:07 PM
Down beat Offaly on penalties in the Christy ring. That's unexpected.
Unexpected but great to see. Well played Down. Feel slightly for Offaly as they would be my favourite county outside Antrim. Another year in the Christy Ring for Offaly, will Fennelly stay on?
Well done Down! Sad to see one of the recent top counties in Hurling falling down the pecking order. I suppose Leinster hurling won't be to worried, they have Galway and Dublin to keep the interest afloat!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2020, 05:36:13 PM
One burst of scores and that's that
The last 5 minutes . It's the same in every sport
Quote from: up the rovers on November 14, 2020, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 14, 2020, 05:41:07 PM
Down beat Offaly on penalties in the Christy ring. That's unexpected.
Unexpected but great to see. Well played Down. Feel slightly for Offaly as they would be my favourite county outside Antrim. Another year in the Christy Ring for Offaly, will Fennelly stay on?
Offaly have to hurl.their way back..
I would love to see Down win the final.
The curse of Galway goalkeepers strikes again
What on earth are they doing back there
30 seconds of madness
What is that goalie at.
Canning has as good vision as you would ever see.
Richie Hogan just missed an open goal
Galway's goalkeeper and full back line have gone full Brazil 1 Germany 7
Galway will be very, very annoyed if they lose this
Pure instinct from the Cats, pure tradition
Galway just stopped
A game Galway were well in control of
Throws the championship wide open now, Limerick and Galway almost certainly can't meet in the final - but with the way Galway folded in the last 15 minutes there, you'd have to question are they contenders at all now
16th Leinster title in 22 years. Cody some man for one man.
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 07:40:49 PM
Richie Hogan just missed an open goal
Galway's goalkeeper and full back line have gone full Brazil 1 Germany 7
Galway will be very, very annoyed if they lose this
Very sloppy.
Subsequent developments show that beating Wexford was not much use as experience.
I only saw the last fifteen but Galway were rubbish. Can't see them challenging limerick.
Quote from: seafoid on November 14, 2020, 07:51:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 07:40:49 PM
Richie Hogan just missed an open goal
Galway's goalkeeper and full back line have gone full Brazil 1 Germany 7
Galway will be very, very annoyed if they lose this
Very sloppy.
Subsequent developments show that beating Wexford was not much use as experience.
Galway snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
Galway looked comfortable for 3/4's of that match. A minute of madness cost them, they never hurled at all in last 10 minutes.
There's something that feels very right about Kilkenny getting the Bob O'Keeffe Cup in front of an empty Croke Park
The way it's meant to be, as it was for so many years
A tremendous feeling of constancy about it, consistency in a world gone mad
The four year famine is over
Only caught about 15 mins of Tipp-Cork and the second half of the Leinster final but those looked to be two fabulous matches. Serious standard of hurling for mid November.
KK very impressive after twice coming back when it looked like Galway were pulling away. Hogan still absolutely magical. The improvisation for the goal was sensational.
Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 07:58:26 PM
There's something that feels very right about Kilkenny getting the Bob O'Keeffe Cup in front of an empty Croke Park
The way it's meant to be, as it was for so many years
A tremendous feeling of constancy about it, consistency in a world gone mad
The four year famine is over
The only currency in kilkenny is celtic crosses.
The best or nothing
Serious collapse from Galway. As i said earlier never bet against Cody/Kilkenny. How they won that god only knows. Fancy a Limerick v Kilkenny final now. We will see how tomorrow goes but Limerick have been by far the most impressive team so far.
Galway threw that game away in 2 absolute mins of madness - 5 up and well in control and threw it away. Might be a blessing in disguise in the long run. A win would have glossed over a few positional issues. Team and management will be rightly sickened this evening though.
Small margins though
Another day Lawlor would have been sent off or Canning would have scored a goal
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 14, 2020, 07:52:53 PM
I only saw the last fifteen but Galway were rubbish. Can't see them challenging limerick.
KK were rubbish up to that and you think they will?
Didn't say that! Tbh maybe harsh as didn't see the full game but just expected a lot more from Galway. Maybe they'll improve yet.
Watched first ten minutes, recorded it and watched it later on, after a couple bottles of wine and two espresso martinis! Will watch it again ;D
But the funny thing was, I was texted the result and even though I was watching the match knowing the result I couldn't understand how they lost that game! Galway were head and shoulders the better team, and collapsed!
Momentum is incredible, hard to stop impossible to break late on. Hats off to Kilkenny and Cody, Richies goal was unreal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 15, 2020, 10:44:38 AM
Watched first ten minutes, recorded it and watched it later on, after a couple bottles of wine and two espresso martinis! Will watch it again ;D
But the funny thing was, I was texted the result and even though I was watching the match knowing the result I couldn't understand how they lost that game! Galway were head and shoulders the better team, and collapsed!
Momentum is incredible, hard to stop impossible to break late on. Hats off to Kilkenny and Cody, Richies goal was unreal.
Slack as the back. Hogan unmarked few times and should have had another
Kilkenny just hung in there, as normal. You know what you get with them. Great credit to Cody. They are using the short puck out a lot more, a bit wobbly at times but they kept at it. Dodgy in the full back line though but didn't concede a goal last night but you think back to the Dublin game.
Galway always looked in control and a bit more dangerous up top but couldn't get a goal.
Joe missed a crucial free or 65 near the end which would've closed the gap. Small margins. Thing is Galway only have a week to prepare, and if they win that, then only another week.
Walsh and Fennelly were very quiet last night. Cody showed very well in the first half but can't see Walsh and Fennelly being as quiet again, that also goes for T.J., from open play but the magic at the ends sums him up.
Waterford should battle hard V Limerick today but Limerick will be hard to stop. A team for all weathers!
Waterford not going away..
Some wayward shooting with the wind
Great work rate from Waterford but Limerick just keep to the plan and keep chipping away.
They do come across as a "stick to the process" kind of team.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 15, 2020, 05:48:45 PM
They do come across as a "stick to the process" kind of team.
I suppose it's a tried and tested process that gets results. When players step away from it (like Limerick did for a bit) the other team gets a foothold in the game. The wayward shooting from distance built up their wide count
Quote from: SHEEDY on November 14, 2020, 07:56:29 PM
Galway looked comfortable for 3/4's of that match. A minute of madness cost them, they never hurled at all in last 10 minutes.
Daithi Burke lost a bit of concentration for one of the goals and the keeper whilst too rash to come out needed to come out with a bit of purpose and take the man as well as the ball and didn't take either and kinda jumped out of the challenge. He needs to be braver in those situations. His puck outs are like arrows though!
Galway will be kicking themselves, the better team over the 70 minutes but giving soft frees kept Kilkenny in it. Refs are picking up on the spare arm tugs. Once Kilkenny went with TJ Reid and Hogan in the FF line, big McInerney or Harte should have dropped in there to sweep as it was pretty obvious what Kilkenny were going to do and it worked like a dream for them.
If the two are to meet again this year then I'd fancy Galway but they now have to get over Limerick to do that and that's where the real battle lies ahead.
Quote from: up the rovers on November 14, 2020, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 14, 2020, 05:41:07 PM
Down beat Offaly on penalties in the Christy ring. That's unexpected.
Unexpected but great to see. Well played Down. Feel slightly for Offaly as they would be my favourite county outside Antrim. Another year in the Christy Ring for Offaly, will Fennelly stay on?
Fennelly and his expensive enough backroom team..
Great win for Down and I'd be a liar if I said it was expected but the split of the season has meant that lads who otherwise couldn't commit to hurl for both now can, the likes of Conor Woods in at centre back makes a huge difference to Down this year. Coupled with the fact most of these lads came off the back of a tight club championship campaign of 5/6 weeks of competitive hurling on the bounce took them straight into a league win over Derry and then to beat Derry a few weeks later again in the CR was a huge monkey off their backs.
Didn't get to see the game but my man
in the stand on the mic reckons it was no fluke and if anything Offaly were the ones lucky to get the draw at the end of normal time.
Wee Keith is a good penalty stopper. He's saved a few against us in the championship this year and last with big Magic firing them at him, so the Down lads were confident enough when it went to penalties.
Kildare next up, a win would be nice but both are promoted to the Joe McDonagh for next year.
Tipp v Galway
Clare v Waterford
All getting tight now with straight knockout.
Tipp v Galway, I'd be inclined to go for Galway based on 50 plus minutes of the Leinster final, but Tipp will have seen enough in the last quarter to have a serious chance. Big mental test for Galway.
Waterford will go into this game as favourites, Clare showed a bit more against Wexford and are improving per game, Tony Kelly is unplayable at the minute, but so is Tadgh DeBurca IMO. Two serious talents but Waterford to shade this one IMO.
Conlon and Duggan seem to be gone for the year, big loss to Clare.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on November 14, 2020, 08:31:08 PM
Galway threw that game away in 2 absolute mins of madness - 5 up and well in control and threw it away. Might be a blessing in disguise in the long run. A win would have glossed over a few positional issues. Team and management will be rightly sickened this evening though.
It was the indiscipline that lost the match. Handing soft frees to KK is pointless
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2020, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on November 14, 2020, 08:31:08 PM
Galway threw that game away in 2 absolute mins of madness - 5 up and well in control and threw it away. Might be a blessing in disguise in the long run. A win would have glossed over a few positional issues. Team and management will be rightly sickened this evening though.
It was the indiscipline that lost the match. Handing soft frees to KK is pointless
A pointer for Shane O'Neill to pick more specialised defenders for the next day.
Only saw highlights of the Clare game there. Tony Kelly is some operator.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/hayes-expects-changes-in-galway-squad-after-shock-defeat-1.4410955
Former Galway forward Damien Hayes says he expects Shane O'Neill to make changes for Saturday's All-Ireland quarter-final against Tipperary, after the Tribesmen "blew it" in last weekend's Leinster final.
Galway lost out to Kilkenny by two points having led by five with 15 minutes remaining, and Hayes thinks the defeat could affect confidence levels in the camp ahead of their knockout clash with Tipp.
"It will be interesting to see if losing the Leinster final will drain Galway's confidence. You have to be straight about things . . . Galway blew that match against Kilkenny," said Hayes, who played 14 years of inter-county hurling for Galway.
Galway at 11/10 has to be great value. I don't think Tipp are going well at all.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on November 17, 2020, 12:47:28 PM
Galway at 11/10 has to be great value. I don't think Tipp are going well at all.
Some big names not firing for Tipp indeed. If Galway can get a lot more clinical and bag a few goals then they'll win this one. Jake Morris will take some watching all the same.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1117/1178665-davy-i-dont-hate-ger-loughnane-i-feel-sorry-for-him/
Fitzgerald's former manager with Clare, Ger Loughnane, was critical in his newspaper column and the Wexford manager dismissed his views as irrelevant, in his opinion.
"He wouldn't really be up with what's going on in the GAA world, in my view," said Fitzgerald on South East Radio.
"My honest opinion is I feel a bit sorry for him. Ger isn't involved with any clubs. He hasn't been involved with anyone since he went to Galway and did not have a good time. He actually couldn't read a game. If you read any of his articles, he can't read the game. He doesn't see what is going on," he added.
"I don't hate Ger Loughnane. I feel sorry for him.
Quote from: seafoid on November 18, 2020, 07:38:23 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1117/1178665-davy-i-dont-hate-ger-loughnane-i-feel-sorry-for-him/
Fitzgerald's former manager with Clare, Ger Loughnane, was critical in his newspaper column and the Wexford manager dismissed his views as irrelevant, in his opinion.
"He wouldn't really be up with what's going on in the GAA world, in my view," said Fitzgerald on South East Radio.
"My honest opinion is I feel a bit sorry for him. Ger isn't involved with any clubs. He hasn't been involved with anyone since he went to Galway and did not have a good time. He actually couldn't read a game. If you read any of his articles, he can't read the game. He doesn't see what is going on," he added.
"I don't hate Ger Loughnane. I feel sorry for him.
Davy can't help himself at times. Sometimes it's better to turn the mic off
what is the story with Clare's absentees? are both guys injured?
Quote from: CitySlicker11 on November 18, 2020, 09:19:32 AM
what is the story with Clare's absentees? are both guys injured?
duggan is in Australia it seems and Conlon is coming back from injury and only doing non contact training with the squad it seems.
Both a huge loss to Clare
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-statistics-water-breaks-making-hurling-a-game-of-four-quarters-1.4413006
GAA statistics: Water breaks making hurling a game of four quarters
Team in ascendancy either side of the stoppages has consistently changed this year
about 3 hours ago
Eamon Donoghue
Waterford and Limerick were level heading into the first and second half water breaks in Sunday's Munster hurling final.
The Déise had outscored Limerick 0-3 to 0-1 in the five minutes prior to both. The play was halted for two minutes for the first stoppage for H20, and for two minutes and 29 seconds for the second. They went on to lose the final quarter of both halves, 0-7 to 0-4, and 0-7 to 0-3. Outscored in the initial five minutes of each quarter – 0-2 to 0-0 in both.
Waterford will argue the speed and intensity they were bringing was diminished by the halts in play, but regardless of whether or not the end result would've been any different, the two breaks did alter the game's momentum. Coming right in the middle of both halves, how could it not.
The GAA's Covid-19 match regulations allow for a one-minute break midway through each half as to avoid players sharing water bottles during the match. The question is, what effect has this new and necessary rule had on the hurling championship thus far?
There's been 12 championship hurling matches to date in 2020, meaning 24 water breaks in total. For only seven of the 24, the team who won the five minutes before a water break maintained their superiority to win the first five minutes after the break. And on the same number of occasions the team who won the five minutes prior to the water break won the rest of the half. So, lots of momentum swings.
There's been 13 examples of momentum swings either side of a water break so far in the hurling championship. In 10 of the 12 matches
In the Leinster final, Galway had won the five minutes prior to the second water break 0-3 to 0-0. Kilkenny hadn't scored in 13 minutes. The teams gathered along the sideline with their coaches, took their break and assessed. Brian Cody team's went out and scored 2-1 to Galway's 0-2. That five-minute spell sent them on their way to what just minutes earlier had appeared such an unlikely victory.
Similarly Wexford in their qualifier defeat to Clare – they'd scored five of the six points before the second-half water break. Yet Clare came out and won the following five-minute period 1-1 to 0-2 en route to a seven-point victory.
Cork were gathering a degree of momentum against Tipperary, outscoring the reigning All-Ireland champions 0-3 to 0-1 approaching the second break for water. After the two teams convened by the dugouts and returned to their positions, Tipp's two point-lead was quickly doubled as they outscored the Rebels 1-5 to 0-6 on the home stretch.
That's all four matches from last weekend's hurling action. In total there's been 13 examples of momentum swings either side of a water break so far in this year's championship. In 10 of the 12 matches.
In the round one qualifier encounter between Cork and Dublin, Mattie Kenny's team outscored Cork 0-2 to 0-1 in the five minutes before the first-half water break. However, in the quarter which followed Cork doubled their lead, giving them a six-point advantage which they would maintain until the final whistle.
Earlier in the provincial championships, Clare were in the ascendancy 0-9 to 0-7 at the first water break against Limerick. They had registered 0-3 to Limerick's 0-2 in the five minutes before the pause in play to rehydrate. But the Treaty County outscored Clare 0-2 to 0-0 in the following five minutes, and went on to win the three remaining quarters to claim victory by 10 points.
In their 13 point Leinster semi-final defeat, Wexford won both five-minute periods before the two water breaks. However, in the two five-minute periods which followed they were outscored by Galway, by a combined 0-5 to 0-1. That was one of only two games so far when both teams involved failed to each win at least one quarter. The other was Limerick's win against Tipperary.
Games are now swinging back and forth far more frequently than we have seen in previous years. Despite several comfortable winning margins, no team has won every quarter thus far. Galway have come closest, losing only one - the final quarter against Kilkenny. Decisively.
For the likes of Limerick last weekend, who found themselves on the back foot during a key stage of the game - in the very heart of the half when the match was really opening up - the new rules give them a two-minute (or more) breather. A reset, and a chance to get the tactics board out to figure out what had gone wrong and address it immediately. How well they use the time afforded is up to them.
Hurling has become a game of four quarters, and respective managers of the six remaining teams are no doubt planning accordingly. Momentum is less of a factor, and the concept of starting and finishing a half strongly now applies twice as often and as much.
The crucial quarter so far this winter has been the second. In nine of 12 matches the team who wins the quarter before half-time goes on to win the match. Only once has an eventual winner lost the second quarter. The next most important quarter has proven to be the first, with seven teams winning it and subsequently winning the match. Only six – that's half – of the eventual winners won the final quarter, while even less (four) won the third.
Similarly, in nine of the 12 matches the team who went on to win the game won the five-minute period after the first water break.
The goalposts have been moved for the 2020 hurling championship. So teams now need to maximise the four breaks, and target the new key periods in the match. For one year only.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on November 02, 2020, 12:42:43 PM
Even though the final last year was Tipp vs Kilkenny, I can't help feeling that Limerick were the best team in the country. They'll take some stopping this year.
They will indeed but I'll break into the confirmation money if Galway pull it off. ;D
Like 100% of Mayo fans, I hate them heron chokers where the big ball is concerned but 95% of us will roar on Joe Canning & Co.
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
The Joe McDonagh final is the curtain raiser for the All Ireland final in December, I suspect it will be Antrim v Carlow but who knows. As for this weekend I am tipping Galway and for no good reason Clare. Given the quality of my tipping Waterford and Tipperary folk will be happy enough!
Quote from: up the rovers on November 20, 2020, 05:57:44 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
The Joe McDonagh final is the curtain raiser for the All Ireland final in December, I suspect it will be Antrim v Carlow but who knows. As for this weekend I am tipping Galway and for no good reason Clare. Given the quality of my tipping Waterford and Tipperary folk will be happy enough!
Tip v Galway looks like being another cliff hanger.
I don't see Clare winning unless Shane O Donnell has a big game. Tony Kelly can't do it all on his own every day.
That was a very good first half and most importantly it had goals
Galway were the better team for most of it but they go in four points down
I think Tipperary just have the sweetness of execution, an economy, that Galway don't quite have
Tipp had seven or eight minutes of dominance towards the end of the half and boy did they make it count
Galway's insistence of a playing a sweeper in the first half might cost them..
Be an interesting second half if Galway change their tactics
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
28/29 November
All-Ireland SHC semi-final (Leinster champion v 1/4 final winner)
Joe McDonagh Round 5
All-Ireland SHC semi-final (Munster champions v 1/4 final winner)
All-Ireland MFC semi-finals
All-Ireland MHC semi-finals
5/6 December
All-Ireland SFC semi-final (Leinster champion v Ulster champion)
All-Ireland SFC semi-final (Connacht champion v Munster champion)
All-Ireland MFC final
All-Ireland MHC final
13 December
All-Ireland SHC final
Joe McDonagh final
19 December
All-Ireland SFC final
There's a subtle but significant breeze favouring Galway now
Three points in a row now and they're looking a lot better than they were three minutes ago
Down to 2.
Yellow for Barrett - that's two yellows.
TIPPERARY DOWN TO 14 MEN
I wondered why the capital letters then realised it was copy paste...
These two always have real tight games.
Tipp need to rebuild .
They had a bad 2018, won a lucky all Ireland last year with the cats taking out Limerick and now this.
The hurling semis are not unlike the football semis. The top 2 play in 1. The final may be uneven.
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
If he hadn't took him down that was a goal opportunity. Not guaranteed
Yeah, soft enough yellow. Reaching over the top while his man reaches for the ball unprotected.
In saying that, that's twice have lost a man in big games, last year's semi-final where they got away with it but not this time. Down to 14, there was a lot of space which Galway exploited well. They have pace and power. Long season for the 2 Mc Graths between hurling and football. Tipp, as you'd expect, battled gamely but the extra man was tough on their aging limbs in the last 15 mins.
Only concern now is they're only a week to get rested up and get recovered. They'll take that I'm sure. Shane O'Neill doing a good job - introducing the young lads sparingly but keeping the energy levels up.
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Tony Kelly carrying an injury which might hurt Clare in the end.
Have been out all day so didn't get chance to see any of this afternoon's game. The one in a row yet again for Tipp.
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
Galway v tipp is always a tight one. I have seen so many great Galway tipp games down the years - always love watching them.
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
The plural of anecdote is not data
5 different winners in 6 years suggests a decent spread
5/5 does not
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
The plural of anecdote is not data
5 different winners in 6 years suggests a decent spread
5/5 does not
But you were talking about margins
Margins in All-Ireland football finals 2010-2019
1 point
1 point
4 points
1 point
3 points
3 points
0 points (1 point)
1 point
6 points
0 points (6 points)
Kilkenny won 11 out of 16 hurling All-Irelands between 2000 and 2015
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
I think the point they were trying to make was the recent different winners in the hurling.
Football is all one way traffic recently, and after tonight, for the forseeable it seems!
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 08:47:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
The plural of anecdote is not data
5 different winners in 6 years suggests a decent spread
5/5 does not
But you were talking about margins
Margins in All-Ireland football finals 2010-2019
1 point
1 point
4 points
1 point
3 points
3 points
0 points (1 point)
1 point
6 points
0 points (6 points)
Kilkenny won 11 out of 16 hurling All-Irelands between 2000 and 2015
Good mix of winners in last ten years (Clare, Tipp, Limerick, Galway, Kilkenny) this year providing more upsets, which adds to the excitement. We could use a lot of dates between years to show dominance.
You've picked Kilkennys wonder years, you could also go back to Kerry's golden years and show dominance in the football like it is now.
If you feel it's dominated by a single team then you clearly don't watch enough.
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
I think the point they were trying to make was the recent different winners in the hurling.
Football is all one way traffic recently, and after tonight, for the forseeable it seems!
Sid has a point though, when Kilkenny were hammering everyone out of sight for most of the 00's and early teens it was problematic for hurling in general. Both Limerick and Waterford were beat in AI finals when the game was over after 15 minutes.
They've fallen a bit but that's maybe because the likes of Galway and Limerick got off their holes and set in motion the processes for them to challenge Kilkenny. Heck, even Clare won three AI U21's before going onto claim their AI in 2013. They were putting the work in.
Two games were the finalist were past their best and surprised the other teams in the semi finals... Waterford best team at that time was getting on and Limerick were bate by 7 but had a great semi final.
Kilkenny could have won more but the other teams didn't lie down, they decided to do something about it...
The gurning about Dublin being unbeatable and the resources blah blah blah, teams are beat before they even start the season ffs!
Cody would still be winning championships if all the other counties took that attitude
Quote from: johnnycool on November 22, 2020, 11:04:17 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 08:10:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2020, 04:08:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
Galway v Tipp is the best rivalry in hurling
Fantastic game for entertainment - but I don't think it was quite at Limerick's level
Galway really kept the head for the goal, just worked it around the houses and found the free man on the far side
Adrian Tuohy did what Eoghan McLaughlin did last week, he had to do it but it's hard to believe that what Cathal Barrett did was more worthy of being put off the field than what Tuohy did
Small margins
That is what hurling has. Football unfortunately does not.
Hmmmmm
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland hurling final was 14 points
The margin in the 2019 All-Ireland football final was 0 points
I think the point they were trying to make was the recent different winners in the hurling.
Football is all one way traffic recently, and after tonight, for the forseeable it seems!
Sid has a point though, when Kilkenny were hammering everyone out of sight for most of the 00's and early teens it was problematic for hurling in general. Both Limerick and Waterford were beat in AI finals when the game was over after 15 minutes.
They've fallen a bit but that's maybe because the likes of Galway and Limerick got off their holes and set in motion the processes for them to challenge Kilkenny. Heck, even Clare won three AI U21's before going onto claim their AI in 2013. They were putting the work in.
Limerick are currently warm favourites to win their second All-Ireland in three years, this team could rack up five or six All-Irelands if they have the desire to do so, they have a massive panel
Go back the late 2000s and early 2010s and examine where they were, they were desperate - in 2008 they were well beaten by Clare in Munster and thrashed by Offaly in the qualifiers under the shadow of the arches of the newly built Thomond Park - it was said that hurling was dying out in Limerick
In 2009 they were beaten by Waterford in Munster in one of the worst games of hurling I've ever seen, they got an easy route through the qualifiers and staggered through to an All-Ireland semi-final where they were humiliated by Tipperary, they were beaten by 24 points
In 2010 they didn't even field a proper team - the first choice players all went on strike for the whole year
But underneath the surface, Limerick were revolutionising their underage set up at this time and that led to a really good group of players that came through at minor level around 2013 and 2014 - yet they didn't win a minor All-Ireland
They did however win two under-21 All-Irelands
Árd Scoil Rís and Na Piarsaigh were turning Limerick city into a hurling powerhouse and Limerick got their act together at senior level under John Kiely
They got the business community on board despite the massive competitor that is Munster rugby
All that added up to what they have now
Before 1998, Waterford were a joke, their lot was generally to be fodder for Cork, Tipp or Limerick in the first round of Munster in front of 8 or 10 thousand spectators
They reached three Munster finals in 1982, 1983 and 1989 and were humiliated in each one, in 1982 they lost by 31 points
They were even knocked out of Munster by Kerry in 1993
But like Limerick later on, they focused on the big suburban areas of Waterford City and turned that city into a hurling powerhouse where it previously hadn't been
Even Davy coming into Wexford has awoken them form their slumber, they flopped this year and he's probably not the man to take them forward but he brought the passion and the pride back into Wexford, as well as a sense of professionalism and if Wexford as a county play their cards right they should benefit in future years from the excitement of 2019
You need to have your house in order at all levels - schools, clubs, underage county level, senior inter-county level
It just seems to me that in football, a lot of counties have a losing attitude and are happy enough with that - Derry, Down, Armagh, Meath, Kildare and to an extent Galway and Cork are among those who do
Donegal and Mayo are two of those who don't
Offaly in hurling were a county that just let their structures go to hell and now they're absolutely nowhere, this is a county that reached 7 All-Ireland finals out of 20 between 1981 and 2000 and won four of them
People make structures and it's attitude and culture that makes the people that make the structures
Post that on the Dublin thread ... all those calling to scrap the leagues might take heart from that
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
Great semi-final win but like Cork footballers couldn't replicate it in the final.
Kildare were the better team and were able to physically put the blockers on the Down forwards who need a bit of space to use the bit of extra pace they had. Kildare had their homework done on Down and their halfback line stayed very deep denying the inside forward line any room, don't think the Kildare keeper had a save to make.
Disappointing end to a good year for the hurlers.
Quote from: johnnycool on November 23, 2020, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
Great semi-final win but like Cork footballers couldn't replicate it in the final.
Kildare were the better team and were able to physically put the blockers on the Down forwards who need a bit of space to use the bit of extra pace they had. Kildare had their homework done on Down and their halfback line stayed very deep denying the inside forward line any room, don't think the Kildare keeper had a save to make.
Disappointing end to a good year for the hurlers.
Was a good game , I feel deflated as a Derry hurling fan atm, our board isnt backing us at all,
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 23, 2020, 03:05:56 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 23, 2020, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on November 20, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 20, 2020, 08:16:31 AM
Limerick lost 3 championship games in 2019
Hardly makes them the best team of 2019
They look to be a different proposition this year and winning the provincial crown gives them and KK an advantage this year which in other years would be a hindrance.
My money is on a Waterford v KK semi-final with Waterford coming out on top on a dry sod in Croke Park.
The other is Galway v Limerick and as TJ Ryan says, that one is like a deaf dog, hard to call but the eventual AI winner comes out of it.
Down in the CR final this weekend, after beating Offaly, they'll be hot favourites and that has never been something a Down team has been used to.
The Joe Mcdonagh final must be the following week, Antrim v either Kerry or Carlow with both duking it out for the chance to play in the final.
Great semi-final win but like Cork footballers couldn't replicate it in the final.
Kildare were the better team and were able to physically put the blockers on the Down forwards who need a bit of space to use the bit of extra pace they had. Kildare had their homework done on Down and their halfback line stayed very deep denying the inside forward line any room, don't think the Kildare keeper had a save to make.
Disappointing end to a good year for the hurlers.
Was a good game , I feel deflated as a Derry hurling fan atm, our board isnt backing us at all,
In all fairness Down CB are putting a bit of effort into the hurling development squads and the senior squad lads don't seem to want for too much unlike back in my day which is a good thing.
U20's seem to be a bolt onto the senior squad and with the overlap that seems like the most obvious thing to do, but not necessarily the right thing. There's room for improvement there.
Really struggling to separate these teams. You can find a win for all four.
There won't be too many points between them at the end.
A Galway Waterford final could serve up Waterfords first in a long time!
If it's a Limerick Kilkenny final then Limerick should have too much for Kilkenny
A Kilkenny Galway final will be really close
Ah the joys of a competitive sport
Waterford aren't good. Not enough fight in them.
This is more like it
Great start to the second half from Waterford,hope they keep it up.
Some turnaround by Waterford. 7 down to 5 points ahead. Back to 4 points as I type. 10 minutes to play.
Congratulations to Waterford a superb 2nd half performance from them. A rare All-Ireland semi final defeat for Cody.
Waterford are back baby
This is a team which could not win one match out of eight in Munster in the previous two years
The amount of running and hurling in them is fantastic
3-27 last week, 2-27 this week
Shows how a top manager can transform a team's fortunes
Great turnaround from Waterford. I would say Cahill is a shrewd enough operator there.
Be great to see them win it. Deburca, Barron, Stephen Bennett and gleeson, when he turns it on, are serious operators.
It will be great to see Antrim playing on ai final day too. Hopefully not fourth time lucky for Kerry.
There was another Tipp Waterford coach today from Toomevara Michael Bevans. Played three years with him back in the day. A seriously great corner forward and a pure gentleman. Delighted for him. Hope to God they can finish the job. Beating Kilkenny should give them wings.
Incredible performance and comeback. Wanted it more in the second half and went out and took it.
How many times has TJ played that well and lost? KK new guard just not up to it yet.
KK still haven't found what they were looking for. Compare to.the manufactured Dubs on their way to 6.
Fair play to the Déise.
Waterford don't win a game since 2017
Cahill and Bevans step in
5th all ireland final appearance in 6 years.
Minor in 15&16, 21/20 in 18/19, senior in 20.
2 fair operators
Quote from: gallsman on November 28, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
Incredible performance and comeback. Wanted it more in the second half and went out and took it.
How many times has TJ played that well and lost? KK new guard just not up to it yet.
Meh, TJ was alright. Was hooked, misdirected a pass in the first half, missed a couple of frees. Cute enough to follow the ball in for the goal. The only one to show for KK after half-time. Dropped a couple of frees short too. Galway showed how to limit him by putting a good big hurler on him in Joe Cooney. Had only one fatal lapse in that game.
Waterford were impressive today. On that basis it could be their first all ireland since the fifties I think.
That game cheered me up no end. Just breath taking
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 28, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Waterford were impressive today. On that basis it could be their first all ireland since the fifties I think.
This game was as good as I have seen. The skill levels of both sides were breathtaking. Illl wait until I see the other semi before coommitting myself but, right now, Waterford could be worth a few bob at evens.
That was just inspirational from Waterford. Couldn't see it at half time. It wasn't lack of possession. But they lacked composure and hit bad wides, while Kilkenny did all the simple things right. Waterford had the look of a team that it just wasn't going to be their day and the old order wasn't going to changeth. But the second half was all about a team changing their fate. Would love to see them go all the way. No disrespect to Galway, but I think Limerick are best team in the country right now. It has the makings of a brilliant All-Ireland either way.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 28, 2020, 09:25:43 PM
Waterford were impressive today. On that basis it could be their first all ireland since the fifties I think.
I think the Munster Champions might have something to say about that.
Today's game is shaping up well. (Limerick ahead, 0-13 to 0-11)
G. Hegarty takes about 20 steps every time.
Most lads take 10.
Also that was some slap on canning from him.
Limerick look a bit too strong here. Joe's sidelines keeping Galway in it.
Hurling is a fairly ridiculous spectacle these days.
28 scores in 39 minutes there.
Probably about 10+ wides and I'd say the ball was dead with interruptions, frees, stoppages etc for anoth 6/7 minutes.
You're basically looking at getting a shot off every 40 seconds which is a mental spectacle.
It's a bit farcical, they need to make a goal worth 6 points or something to get away from this.
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
Hurling is a fairly ridiculous spectacle these days.
28 scores in 39 minutes there.
Probably about 10+ wides and I'd say the ball was dead with interruptions, frees, stoppages etc for anoth 6/7 minutes.
You're basically looking at getting a shot off every 40 seconds which is a mental spectacle.
It's a bit farcical, they need to make a goal worth 6 points or something to get away from this.
Don't watch it.
Two strikes with the hurl and they laugh it off
Surely a strike is a strike, and red card?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
Hurling is a fairly ridiculous spectacle these days.
28 scores in 39 minutes there.
Probably about 10+ wides and I'd say the ball was dead with interruptions, frees, stoppages etc for anoth 6/7 minutes.
You're basically looking at getting a shot off every 40 seconds which is a mental spectacle.
It's a bit farcical, they need to make a goal worth 6 points or something to get away from this.
Don't watch it.
Is this from the Goebbels school of propaganda?
They are valid points.
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
Hurling is a fairly ridiculous spectacle these days.
28 scores in 39 minutes there.
Probably about 10+ wides and I'd say the ball was dead with interruptions, frees, stoppages etc for anoth 6/7 minutes.
You're basically looking at getting a shot off every 40 seconds which is a mental spectacle.
It's a bit farcical, they need to make a goal worth 6 points or something to get away from this.
Don't watch it.
Is this from the Goebbels school of propaganda?
They are valid points.
Why you'd watch something that you don't like is bizarre
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 05:00:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:55:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 29, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
Hurling is a fairly ridiculous spectacle these days.
28 scores in 39 minutes there.
Probably about 10+ wides and I'd say the ball was dead with interruptions, frees, stoppages etc for anoth 6/7 minutes.
You're basically looking at getting a shot off every 40 seconds which is a mental spectacle.
It's a bit farcical, they need to make a goal worth 6 points or something to get away from this.
Don't watch it.
Is this from the Goebbels school of propaganda?
They are valid points.
Why you'd watch something that you don't like is bizarre
What's bizarre is your hysterical reaction. I'm watching a game and making valid observations and because you don't like them you're telling me not to watch.
Hysterical? Don't watch it is a hysterical comment? Wow you'll be putting in I'm a nazi next?
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Galway are beginning to get on top here, winning a lot of 50/50 balls the last few minutes
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Odd comment.
60 mins gone still all to play for Limerick 0-22 Galway 0-20
Joe Canning a victim of friendly fire
Could be the game if he has to go off, and it very much looks like he'll have to
Or maybe not
Limerick have just stopped
Galway ran them close but were still disappointing. Limerick have better strength and depth than anyone else by a long way. Canning missed but Galway hit the frees and sidelines afterwards.
Burke and Mcinerney are big hitters.
And Limerick started again
A real shame for Joe
Young Niland was very good in his cameo though
Limerick seem to have another gear in them - just seem to keep teams at arms length.
Good bench also as well as a good range of scorers all over the pitch.
Limerick won't be back next year. Galway should have made more progress on puckouts etc and bringing more young lads into the team
They are building a new team.
It's not like the Dubs where there are 60 championship standard players waiting to be onboarded.
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:48:49 PM
Limerick won't be back next year. Galway should have made more progress on puckouts etc and bringing more young lads into the team
They are building a new team.
It's not like the Dubs where there are 60 championship standard players waiting to be onboarded.
So baring the dubs comment explain why Limerick won't be back next year? Is that they won't be contending semi finals?
Limerick won't be back next year? How do you figure that one?
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Limerick won't be back next year? How do you figure that one?
A day of the odd comments from him.
All Ireland final a repeat of the Munster final. Wishing Joe a speedy recovery.
Is there's any danger that fans (small amount) be at Croke for the finals?
Was hard to watch the last 15 mins or so after seeing Joe Canning stretchered off and hope he will be okay, a magnificent hurler. Limerick were the better team overall, have more in them, but Galway battled very well. Really look forward to seeing a Waterford/Limerick Final.
In reality it's Galway who are at more risk of falling away
Plenty of miles on the clock for a good few key players
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
Is there's any danger that fans (small amount) be at Croke for the finals?
If you were well organised enough and in a group I'd say it wouldn't be that hard to break in, for the last 10/15 minutes anyway
You might be in trouble afterwards though
I want to be in for the first match! Antrim v Kerry!
Quote from: sid waddell on November 29, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
In reality it's Galway who are at more risk of falling away
Plenty of miles on the clock for a good few key players
I think they definitely are a team on the slide.
Limerick will be there or thereabouts for a good while.
Quote from: sid waddell on November 29, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
In reality it's Galway who are at more risk of falling away
Plenty of miles on the clock for a good few key players
Next year it will be wide open.
Quote from: Blowitupref on November 29, 2020, 06:00:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Limerick won't be back next year? How do you figure that one?
A day of the odd comments from him.
All Ireland final a repeat of the Munster final. Wishing Joe a speedy recovery.
Most of his comments are off the wall tbh
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
Is there's any danger that fans (small amount) be at Croke for the finals?
Surely they will at least consider letting the families of the players in to watch the final.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 29, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
In reality it's Galway who are at more risk of falling away
Plenty of miles on the clock for a good few key players
I think they definitely are a team on the slide.
Limerick will be there or thereabouts for a good while.
To be fair Galway will always be there or thereabouts going forward considering the consistent stream of talent coming through.
They won't always win it obviously (and have only won once in 32 years as I know only too well) but I think more than any other team they will be there or thereabouts due to the academy that's there nowadays.
Quote from: didlyi on November 29, 2020, 06:37:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
Is there's any danger that fans (small amount) be at Croke for the finals?
Surely they will at least consider letting the families of the players in to watch the final.
Surely considering the size of the stadium they could let in a couple of thousand from each county safely.
Quote from: galwayman on November 29, 2020, 06:38:30 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 06:12:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on November 29, 2020, 06:02:24 PM
In reality it's Galway who are at more risk of falling away
Plenty of miles on the clock for a good few key players
I think they definitely are a team on the slide.
Limerick will be there or thereabouts for a good while.
To be fair Galway will always be there or thereabouts going forward considering the consistent stream of talent coming through.
They won't always win it obviously (and have only won once in 32 years as I know only too well) but I think more than any other team they will be there or thereabouts due to the academy that's there nowadays.
I find it hard to beleive that Joe Canning given his talent levels and the talent of those around him only has one all ireland at this stage. He is 32 now. He will still be 32 for next years championship.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 29, 2020, 07:11:19 PM
Quote from: didlyi on November 29, 2020, 06:37:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 29, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
Is there's any danger that fans (small amount) be at Croke for the finals?
Surely they will at least consider letting the families of the players in to watch the final.
Surely considering the size of the stadium they could let in a couple of thousand from each county safely.
If a group is going down then they should be a bubble group, ie two families, or be travelling from one family or taking the train or own cars.
Properly Spaced out over all seating areas within Croke would allow you up to 8,000 surely? With allocated times for entry into ground
In all my time watching hurling for as long as I can remember I have never seen anyone score four points from sideline cuts. Joe Canning should be incouraged to make a coaching video on sideline balls. Hard to believe five of Galways scores came from line balls. What skill.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 05:55:44 PM
Limerick won't be back next year? How do you figure that one?
Because the energy levels required to.retain the All Ireland have been beyond them, Tipp and Galway in recent years
It comes down to intensity. Plus next year is 6 months away
That was their first in years. Recovering from the first is different from another one. Limerick look to be on the way to becoming dominant.
Apparently it's the first time ever anyone has scored four sidelines in a championship match. Three has been done.
I thought earlier in the year Limerick were unbeatable but I do think Waterford are as well equipped as anyone to beat them, they are rightly warm favourites though
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 29, 2020, 07:42:44 PM
That was their first in years. Recovering from the first is different from another one. Limerick look to be on the way to becoming dominant.
Apparently it's the first time ever anyone has scored four sidelines in a championship match. Three has been done.
Let's see. I think there isn't much between the top teams
Another year where the old firm lose out.
Cork are still poor
KK are not good enough
Tipp will probably have to rebuild
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
Another year where the old firm lose out.
Cork are still poor
KK are not good enough
Tipp will probably have to rebuild
A lot of the teams have to rebuild somewhat over the next season or two, Galway included. Waterford are progressing, but still look a little raw and naive at times, and could do with strengthening the squad also. They may not win the AI in a fortnight's time, but the experience they've gained this year will be hugely beneficial going forward. You could say only Limerick appear to be in their prime, but if they lose to the Deise, it could raise doubts in their minds also. Tipp', when Cahill takes them over, will be interesting. A brave person would bet on the 2022 champions right now.
Two interesting semifinals in many ways.
Waterford had a terrible first half, slipping and fumbling their way throughout and you'd have feared for them going in at half time 7 points down. But this Kilkenny team is not anywhere near the Kilkenny of old and have shown they're inability to close out a game against Dublin and even then Galway had hurled them off the park for 60 plus minutes only for the old guard of TJ and Richie Hogan pulling that one out of the fire. With both TJ and Richie now relatively subdued by Waterford they then proceeded to take over, the passes were sticking, the wide count dropped and their direct running straight through the heart of the Kilkenny defence was paying dividends. Gone are the days you would have been taking your life in your hands to attempt to run through a Kilkenny defence. The goals came, the confidence grew and Kilkenny had nothing in response. The introduction of Walter and Colin Fennelly offered very little and the Cats went out with a whimper. A big statement from Waterford, beating one of the big three in an AI semi-final (Only the second time that's happened Cody, the last being in 2005, some record) and they'll fancy having a go at Limerick for the second time in about a month.
Galway started by horsing into Limerick and not allowing them to get their phases in motion and it was working a treat, Limerick had an opponent physically able for them and it was a new challenge to them, Guillane was subdued by Burke, Galway lads were winning high ball against them and we'd a game on our hands.
In fairness to Limerick they stuck to their gameplan and gradually wore Galway down, Cathal Mannion having to go off was a big blow for Galway as he's a big part of the puck out strategy and it went a bit awry when he left the field. Limerick on top but only just, Canning putting dead balls over for fun and all nip and tuck.
Limerick prevailed yet again, bringing on fresh legs which drove them on again, strength in depth is a big part of their gameplan and it worked again.
What of the final?
Limerick are a formidable outfit always capable of strangling other teams to death by a thousand cuts/points rather than killing teams off like Kilkenny in their pomp who'd rattle off two goals and a few points either side of them putting the game to bed early doors. Limerick by nature of their style don't kill teams off like that and I'd say Liam Cahill will look at the Munster final blue print and think that if Waterford are still a few points out with 10 minutes or so to go they can try to change things up, get a goal by throwing a catcher or two deep in on the Limerick fullback line with Hutchison and Barron hovering around anything is possible.
Waterford have the off the cuff hurlers to spring a surprise but the bookies will be rightly backing Limerick to get a second AI in three years.
Quote from: seafoid on December 01, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
Another year where the old firm lose out.
Cork are still poor
KK are not good enough
Tipp will probably have to rebuild
Happy Days :)
Read somewhere that more than 50% of the hurlers playing in the AI semi-finals were 6'2" or over.
If that's true that's some stat.
Still room for the Tadgh De Burca's and the likes though.
I see Brian? Gavin wrote an article and was talking about the amount of fouling Hegarty got away with for Limerick. Have to say I thought the same myself - between that stroke on Canning (which to be fair to him I don't think was intentional though was a bit dangerous) and the amount of fouls he gave away he should probably have been off.
That's a serious stat jc. Some of them even don't look that huge but are. I always thought Conor Whelan was quite small but he's 6'1'' plus and TJ Reid never looks like he's 6'3'' or 4 or whatever he is as he has a bit of a turn of pace and a skill level you'd expect of a wee fella.
Cian Lynch wouldn't be huge either but is some hurler.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 03, 2020, 09:54:08 AM
I see Brian? Gavin wrote an article and was talking about the amount of fouling Hegarty got away with for Limerick. Have to say I thought the same myself - between that stroke on Canning (which to be fair to him I don't think was intentional though was a bit dangerous) and the amount of fouls he gave away he should probably have been off.
That's a serious stat jc. Some of them even don't look that huge but are. I always thought Conor Whelan was quite small but he's 6'1'' plus and TJ Reid never looks like he's 6'3'' or 4 or whatever he is as he has a bit of a turn of pace and a skill level you'd expect of a wee fella.
Cian Lynch wouldn't be huge either but is some hurler.
In terms of fouling, one of the Kilkenny corner backs got away with a blatant pull back and never got carded for it.
No point gurning about cynical fouls, black cards and the likes when one of the most obvious of carding offences isn't being implemented.
Yeah I think the same happened for KK against Galway too. It doesn't happen that much or black card would come in I suspect.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-every-corner-back-is-an-island-now-1.4426738
The six-two-six is long gone, clearly. Watch Limerick with their tactics board at the water breaks - their ideal set-up is to start with the three players in the full forward line in a straight line down the middle of the attack, with huge canyons of space either side for the ball to be sprayed into. Most teams try this tactic but Limerick do it better than anyone else.
None of this happens by accident. All these changes have come about by careful design and repetition on the training field. Natural evolution has always been part of the sport. Cork with their running game in the early noughties. Kilkenny with their deep-lying robust half-forward line to combat it. Tipperary with their emphasis on creating space in their forward division. Clare with a deep-lying sweeper. And now Limerick with this model.
Every one of these set-ups have been hugely effective. The flipside is that they never last for long. They are too hard to sustain over time due to the in-depth analysis the other counties carry-out after each one wins a Celtic Cross. We always say that the All-Ireland winner dictates the new way forward for the game but I don't think that's exactly the case.
It's more that the process of defeating it, of analysing it CSI-style and finding a way to pull it apart - that's what really shapes the next bit of tactical evolution
Quote from: seafoid on December 04, 2020, 10:26:45 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-every-corner-back-is-an-island-now-1.4426738
The six-two-six is long gone, clearly. Watch Limerick with their tactics board at the water breaks - their ideal set-up is to start with the three players in the full forward line in a straight line down the middle of the attack, with huge canyons of space either side for the ball to be sprayed into. Most teams try this tactic but Limerick do it better than anyone else.
None of this happens by accident. All these changes have come about by careful design and repetition on the training field. Natural evolution has always been part of the sport. Cork with their running game in the early noughties. Kilkenny with their deep-lying robust half-forward line to combat it. Tipperary with their emphasis on creating space in their forward division. Clare with a deep-lying sweeper. And now Limerick with this model.
Every one of these set-ups have been hugely effective. The flipside is that they never last for long. They are too hard to sustain over time due to the in-depth analysis the other counties carry-out after each one wins a Celtic Cross. We always say that the All-Ireland winner dictates the new way forward for the game but I don't think that's exactly the case.
It's more that the process of defeating it, of analysing it CSI-style and finding a way to pull it apart - that's what really shapes the next bit of tactical evolution
Limerick seem pretty rigid in their tactics and who can argue with it as they've looked near on impossible to beat this year. Galway went at them physically and that seemed to be working, but slowly Limerick turned the screw and Galway ran out of puff. Maybe too many games week on week took their toll on Galway, who knows.
Defensively Limerick create a wall of huge men, dominant in the air so puck outs and balls into that area need to be deadly accurate and low or it'll be gobbled up. Limerick don't necessarily put much pressure on the ball coming out as they're light numbers wise but once it gets to the midfield area they clamp down hard on all channels in there and TBH only Waterford has shown that running at pace in there and avoiding contact with support runners off the shoulder can reap a reward. Getting the ball into Hutchinson and Gleeson will be a challenge, but if they can manage it I'd give Waterford a punchers chance on Sunday. Gleeson will need to be fired up in a good way on Sunday for that to work.
Hoping for a battle royal irrespective of the winner!
I think Waterford like Galway will take the fight to Limerick. Waterford need to find 2 goals to beat Limerick, limericks point tally is impressive and they are happy enough to tag on the points, the saying "points good" has never been more used than Limerick.
Waterford ain't bad at taking scores and breaking lines. If they get momentum in the last quarter they could win this, forcing Limerick to change tactics will be difficult.
Hoping to have 'dinner' somewhere for this game, the pints and substantial food will keep me safe from Covid
I think that the 'big' counties have brought the tactical game to the extreme and it will change the game forever. The hand-passing game 10 years ago was beset by an error rate of about 50% ("ah, in the name of Jaysus, just clear the feckin' ball!"), but Limerick have moved the success rate up to about 80%. The other factor is the physical presence of the players and the "nippy" corner back or forward is a thing of the past. Realistically, the returns points-wise is phenomenal and we live in a different era. However, the main factor that has contributed to hurling entering a different sphere boils down to the design of the stick (IMHO) .. basically it's a glorified soup spoon that takes the notion of ground hurling out of the equation. Just go to YouTube and look at the games/hurls in the early 1990s, it was a different game. Prime case being - nobody today rolls, lifts and strikes a free today, it's all scoop and shoot. Sunday's double header gives everyone a chance to contrast the A and B league .. should be interesting.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 07, 2020, 09:09:10 PM
I think that the 'big' counties have brought the tactical game to the extreme and it will change the game forever. The hand-passing game 10 years ago was beset by an error rate of about 50% ("ah, in the name of Jaysus, just clear the feckin' ball!"), but Limerick have moved the success rate up to about 80%. The other factor is the physical presence of the players and the "nippy" corner back or forward is a thing of the past. Realistically, the returns points-wise is phenomenal and we live in a different era. However, the main factor that has contributed to hurling entering a different sphere boils down to the design of the stick (IMHO) .. basically it's a glorified soup spoon that takes the notion of ground hurling out of the equation. Just go to YouTube and look at the games/hurls in the early 1990s, it was a different game. Prime case being - nobody today rolls, lifts and strikes a free today, it's all scoop and shoot. Sunday's double header gives everyone a chance to contrast the A and B league .. should be interesting.
There's something in what you say in relation to the hurls. Look at Guillane taking a free, he can stand with his arm down fully and his hurl doesn't touch the ground. He's a big man, but that hurl must be 34" at best.
I'd still like to see the ball changed to deaden it to prevent points sailing over from 100 yards out with almost no effort. Change the PU core and that'll give us more hurling per score if that makes sense.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 08, 2020, 09:40:03 AM
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 07, 2020, 09:09:10 PM
I think that the 'big' counties have brought the tactical game to the extreme and it will change the game forever. The hand-passing game 10 years ago was beset by an error rate of about 50% ("ah, in the name of Jaysus, just clear the feckin' ball!"), but Limerick have moved the success rate up to about 80%. The other factor is the physical presence of the players and the "nippy" corner back or forward is a thing of the past. Realistically, the returns points-wise is phenomenal and we live in a different era. However, the main factor that has contributed to hurling entering a different sphere boils down to the design of the stick (IMHO) .. basically it's a glorified soup spoon that takes the notion of ground hurling out of the equation. Just go to YouTube and look at the games/hurls in the early 1990s, it was a different game. Prime case being - nobody today rolls, lifts and strikes a free today, it's all scoop and shoot. Sunday's double header gives everyone a chance to contrast the A and B league .. should be interesting.
There's something in what you say in relation to the hurls. Look at Guillane taking a free, he can stand with his arm down fully and his hurl doesn't touch the ground. He's a big man, but that hurl must be 34" at best.
I'd still like to see the ball changed to deaden it to prevent points sailing over from 100 yards out with almost no effort. Change the PU core and that'll give us more hurling per score if that makes sense.
Is the ball and hurl within the required standard? Is there a required standard to be met?
If Croke has allowed this to happen and teams have adopted this to suit themselves then it needs to be regulated properly.
As for the actual length of the hurl, will that's up to the player, I remember playing with a 36' ! WTF, I'm five foot nothing and that what we were encouraged at the time, I moved to a 34' very quickly and made life so much easier..
Joe Deane always played with a smaller stick, or certainly his hand was a lot lower down the stick when he used it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 08, 2020, 12:01:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 08, 2020, 09:40:03 AM
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on December 07, 2020, 09:09:10 PM
I think that the 'big' counties have brought the tactical game to the extreme and it will change the game forever. The hand-passing game 10 years ago was beset by an error rate of about 50% ("ah, in the name of Jaysus, just clear the feckin' ball!"), but Limerick have moved the success rate up to about 80%. The other factor is the physical presence of the players and the "nippy" corner back or forward is a thing of the past. Realistically, the returns points-wise is phenomenal and we live in a different era. However, the main factor that has contributed to hurling entering a different sphere boils down to the design of the stick (IMHO) .. basically it's a glorified soup spoon that takes the notion of ground hurling out of the equation. Just go to YouTube and look at the games/hurls in the early 1990s, it was a different game. Prime case being - nobody today rolls, lifts and strikes a free today, it's all scoop and shoot. Sunday's double header gives everyone a chance to contrast the A and B league .. should be interesting.
There's something in what you say in relation to the hurls. Look at Guillane taking a free, he can stand with his arm down fully and his hurl doesn't touch the ground. He's a big man, but that hurl must be 34" at best.
I'd still like to see the ball changed to deaden it to prevent points sailing over from 100 yards out with almost no effort. Change the PU core and that'll give us more hurling per score if that makes sense.
Is the ball and hurl within the required standard? Is there a required standard to be met?
If Croke has allowed this to happen and teams have adopted this to suit themselves then it needs to be regulated properly.
As for the actual length of the hurl, will that's up to the player, I remember playing with a 36' ! WTF, I'm five foot nothing and that what we were encouraged at the time, I moved to a 34' very quickly and made life so much easier..
Joe Deane always played with a smaller stick, or certainly his hand was a lot lower down the stick when he used it
There's a standardisation of the ball alright, size, weight and bounce IIRC. Bounce needs reduced.
Hurls are purely a personal choice although I thought the boss could be no more than 5 inches (13cm) at its widest point, keepers included. That's never enforced.
Will Gillane but fit for Saturday lads?
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Galway like footballers too soft. Won handy All Ireland against Waterford in 2017. Will be long time before win All Ireland in hurling or football again at senior level.
Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Galway like footballers too soft. Won handy All Ireland against Waterford in 2017. Will be long time before win All Ireland in hurling or football again at senior level.
In all my years watching Galway I'd never have them as being soft
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 10, 2020, 11:36:15 PM
Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Galway like footballers too soft. Won handy All Ireland against Waterford in 2017. Will be long time before win All Ireland in hurling or football again at senior level.
In all my years watching Galway I'd never have them as being soft
You mustn't have seen them playing against Waterford in 1998 or Cork in 2008 or Waterford in 2011
The current Galway team is far from soft though, they've been involved in and come out the right side of some great battles
But it's defo a criticism that could be aimed at the current Dublin team
I've seen them right through the 80's they came out on the wrong side of some battles, that can be labelled to a lot of teams. I've never seen them down tools, they lacked the final 10 minutes in a game at times, that wasn't down to being soft, It was fitness, they've addressed that
I do think their footballers possibly fall into that category and should be so much better but definitely not the hurlers. I doubt anyone ever called Tony Keady, Sylvie Linnane or Ger McInerney soft and lived to tell the tale lol. Some of those shoulder challenges against Limerick you felt yourself wincing at.
I think Limerick will have too much for Waterford. While the scoreline against Galway looked close, there was never a point in the game where I thought we'd lose.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 11, 2020, 08:52:56 AM
I do think their footballers possibly fall into that category and should be so much better but definitely not the hurlers. I doubt anyone ever called Tony Keady, Sylvie Linnane or Ger McInerney soft and lived to tell the tale lol. Some of those shoulder challenges against Limerick you felt yourself wincing at.
Galway hurlers underperformed for many years though
Between the end of the 87/88 team - which was the 1990 final - and the 2015-present team there were about four individual years in which they properly got it together (1993, 2001, 2005, 2012), and maybe another three or four individual years in which they were a bit unlucky (2000, 2002, 2009, 2010)
The rest of the time they just weren't at the races at all, which usually meant they could be at the races, and let their hair down
They had fantastic underage teams during these years, but at senior seemed to be in a permanent state of transition, they had more players than they knew what to do with
You'd even say that one All-Ireland for this current team is a poor enough return
I don't think structures helped them prior to leinster when they had only one match to be fair to them in that regard.
I do think they have a problem bringing underage talent through. They've got so much you do wonder what happens to the half of it. I have a feeling it is one of those counties where the club scene is very damaging to the county scene with club rivalries etc though that is only through some things I hear.(just a feeling but when you for example are like Canning and are playing clubs with boys who trod on your head then you are maybe a bit wary of some other clubs lol)
Agreed I would say they probably should have more than one with current crop. While they ran Limerick close(ish) like someone else said here there was never really a point in that game where they looked like winning. With Canning not getting any younger you'd imagine they will drop off a bit from being genuine contenders too. I don't think they had a team over about a 15-20 year period that was really capable of winning an all ireland ability wise despite a few final appearances. (early to mid nineties to about the 2010/11/12 mark - basically when Joe came on the scene)
Quote from: reillycavan on December 10, 2020, 11:30:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 29, 2020, 05:17:20 PM
This is great experience for Galway. I'd take a loss here for an all Ireland next year.
Galway like footballers too soft. Won handy All Ireland against Waterford in 2017. Will be long time before win All Ireland in hurling or football again at senior level.
Bit like calling the Cork hurlers from 2005 onwards soft.
Big match tomorrow. Limerick rightly favourites but I have a sneaky suspicion that Waterford might spring a surprise. Thats where my fiver is going anyway. Waterford to run the legs off them.
Seems the weather might play a part today in both games....
Greasy wet ball, handling will be tested and the odd slip may let a player in on goal.
In fairness to Limerick they adopted pretty well thst night it lashed on them
Hopefully both games serve up a cracker, wishing Antrim all the best, Kerry and Antrim have met 3 times already this season, they'll have picked up a few things from each game. Expect a tight game
All games to be finished on the day o take it?
I was watching the camogie and Munster minor hurling last night.
Must be just the senior hurling that's using the new yellow sliotar?
Limerick by 4. Mulcahy due a big game.
Congrats to " Millhouse" and the Antrim lads.
Soon be time to split it into Belfast and Antrim :D;D
I've seen pitch in Croke Park in better condition
Antrim were much the better team in the first game, should have won by more
Yer man for Kerry should have dropped the ball into the square looking for the equalising goal from that free instead of taking a point, you're highly unlikely to get a better chance, can never understand why players do that
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 03:19:43 PM
I've seen pitch in Croke Park in better condition
Antrim were much the better team in the first game, should have won by more
Yer man for Kerry should have dropped the ball into the square looking for the equalising goal from that free instead of taking a point, you're highly unlikely to get a better chance, can never understand why players do that
Yes, I think the pitch is patchy enough in certain areas.
There doesn't look to be anything wrong with De Burca coming off. Can he come back on?
Waterford badly need a goal
And you can't say they haven't had chances for them
Tom Morrissey is heading for HOTY if Limerick win this
A much better pure hurler than Hegarty
Limerick have been dominant yet Waterford have had at least four goal chances
You'd still struggle to see how Waterford can overcome the loss of De Burca and the strength of Limerick's bench
But Gleeson seems on it and if they come out of the blocks like against Kilkenny they're right there
Limerick are fouling a lot and when Waterford get good ball in that defence looks in bother
Mike Casey was quietly excellent at full back before this year but is injured
I thought Morrissey went in to "do" Gleeson with that tackle on Gleeson's tackle
Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a player aim for the vitals at the business end of the championship
Limerick are definitely not above a bit of shithousing
Turning out to be a bit of a damp squib. Limerick keeping Waterford in it with frees.
Waterford need a goal. Had a chance before half-time but Bennett too greedy and went for goal himself. For however good he is, he needs to be more of a team player
Seamie Flanagan showing well at full forward strong and a scoring threat.
Limerick have got the start to the second half that Waterford needed
No way back from here surely
Waterford are living off scraps
Limerick are queueing up to score points
They'll hit 35 I think
Shocker of a decision against Kevin Moran there by Liam Cahill's old team mate Fergal Horgan
Just when Waterford were showing small signs of life too
Limerick have been the best team in Ireland comfortably this year.
On the two games today. Holding the opponents hurl is a free >:(
Limerick are just a cut above everyone. Magnificent hurlers every last one of them, the way they drill the short passes to each other all over the field is unplayable at times.
Hegarty probably poty I imagine.
Limerick better drilled than probably any hurling team I have ever seen.
Limerick's physical strength is on a different level to Waterford's I think
Waterford have struggled terribly to get their running game going, especially since half time
Game over.
Quote from: sid waddell on December 13, 2020, 04:46:29 PM
Limerick's physical strength is on a different level to Waterford's I think
Waterford have struggled terribly to get their running game going, especially since half time
It's time to split limerick in two.
Limerick with as many scores in the 1st 15 minutes of the 2nd half as Waterford managed to score in all of the 1st half.
Another Waterford goal chance goes a begging
Again the strike was from up high and again not enough meat in the shot
That last example is everything that's been wrong with Aussie Gleeson for 3/4 years. Charging down a blind alley, doesn't think about what he's going to do with it. Runs out of either space, puff, or both and snatches at the thing.
Limerick's swarming back is reminiscent of Dublin's, always seems to be two or three defenders hanging out of every Waterford forward
FT Limerick 0-30 Waterford 0-19. From a neutral point a view a disappointing All-Ireland final. Congrats to Limerick from no title since 1973 to now 2 All-Irelands in 3 years
Who says goals win games. 30 point masterclass by Limerick. Does Kyle Hayes even breath!?
I do worry limerick are going into a big period of dominance. The football isn't as interesting for a neutral these days so I really hope the hurling doesn't go that way too with one team just dominating.
Gleeson so gifted but hugely frustrating.
Limerick haven't done 2 in a row yet but They were awesome today, But teams need to analyse them and come up with a plan to stop them. Like closing down the space they seem to make so easily for themselves.
Quote from: didlyi on December 13, 2020, 05:53:57 PM
Limerick haven't done 2 in a row yet but They were awesome today, But teams need to analyse them and come up with a plan to stop them. Like closing down the space they seem to make so easily for themselves.
The space is available because they work very hard to create it! It's very simple, take the easy points and the players have bought into that! Amazing set of players and management
What non-Limerick players will get into the All-Star team?
Tony Kelly definitely
TJ Reid maybe
What Waterford players?
Stephen O'Keeffe?
Lyons at half back will sneak in I think
Bennett will probably get a place despite a poor day today
De Burca will surely get in
Prunty the corner back might have a shout
Think Barron and Gleeson will miss out, Hutchison will miss out I think after being wiped out today
But which Limerick players don't get in? If Lyons and De Burca both get in, Byrnes would miss out
If Prunty gets in Nash would miss out
Cian Lynch might miss out
Be some competition in the half forward line - Hegarty, Morrissey, Bennett, Reid, Canning, Cathal Mannion
Much less competition in the full forward line - Aaron Gillane is the only full forward line player who is nailed on I think
Which shows how peripheral full forward line play has become to the game now - Limerick didn't score a goal in four of their five matches - only against Tipp they score a goal, they got three that day
And they only conceded three goals all championship and none in the last three matches
If you can score 30 points or over and stop goals going in at your own end, it's very hard to beat
Another question... In hurling for a goal to count is it the whole of the ball has to cross the line or is that soccer? How much of the ball has to cross the line?
Tj Reid for sure. Maybe Diathi Burke? Canning in with a shout as always. Kelly good shout. I would say Bennett too. Deburca yes.
Hegarty poty.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
Another question... In hurling for a goal to count is it the whole of the ball has to cross the line or is that soccer? How much of the ball has to cross the line?
Tj Reid for sure. Maybe Diathi Burke? Canning in with a shout as always. Kelly good shout. I would say Bennett too. Deburca yes.
Hegarty poty.
The whole of the ball has to cross the line - the umpire made a mistake with a 65 call in the second half where the ball hadn't crossed the line
I thought that too but saw some nonsense on social media so was just checking... it was more from the joe McDonagh game it came up.
Tadhg De Burca injured his knee today and Liam Cahill says it doesn't look good
That's dreadful luck, a cruciate now means 2021 is a write off for him and maybe for Waterford, especially as it looks likely there will be another All-Ireland final as soon as seven months away
I wonder has the Covid disruption led to an uptick in cruciate and general knee damage, you'd need a wider study across sports but there have been a good few high profile ones - Virgil van Dijk, Pique for Barcelona did his, Jason Doherty for Mayo although I wonder was that related in some way to his original cruciate injury last year, even though it's the other knee I think
It definitely looks to me like there is an upsurge in premiership injuries at least. Lack of pre season in any code doesn't look to be helping. I think vandjk had some help on his mind.
Compressed season plus lack of pre season can't be helping. Particularly amateur athletes.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 09:03:48 PM
It definitely looks to me like there is an upsurge in premiership injuries at least. Lack of pre season in any code doesn't look to be helping. I think vandjk had some help on his mind.
Compressed season plus lack of pre season can't be helping. Particularly amateur athletes.
So the Dubs will be ok ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 13, 2020, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 09:03:48 PM
It definitely looks to me like there is an upsurge in premiership injuries at least. Lack of pre season in any code doesn't look to be helping. I think vandjk had some help on his mind.
Compressed season plus lack of pre season can't be helping. Particularly amateur athletes.
So the Dubs will be ok ;)
Cruciate injuries have been far from unknown in the Dublin camp
Jack McCaffrey, Ciaran Kilkenny, Bernard Brogan and Eoghan O'Gara all did theirs
Surfaces can be a factor in those too. Nou camp had a history. Croke surface at one stage considered a factor.
Slight criticism of Austin Gleeson on here a bit harsh in fairness. He worked might and main for the cause, scored 5 (3 form play) and tried his heart out. One of his side's best on the day.
Quote from: mouview on December 13, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
Slight criticism of Austin Gleeson on here a bit harsh in fairness. He worked might and main for the cause, scored 5 (3 form play) and tried his heart out. One of his side's best on the day.
Gleeson's problem almost is that he can play anywhere and be the best player in that position
Means he's never really had one settled role and stuck to it for a number of years
He's a phenomenal talent, but is the best way to exploit it to have him as a swashbuckling centre back or a marauding, running forward causing havoc
If De Burca is out next year that decision is pretty much made for Waterford
The thing about Gleeson is he's so good he has never been able to instill the real discipline into his game that is needed, he plays in the style of a lad at minor level who is completely dominant and does it all, but that's not how senior hurling works, his style is very like Ken McGrath, unsurprising as they're from the same club, that style is exhilarating to watch but Ken McGrath never won an All-Ireland
He sort of reminds me of Steven Gerrard in his pomp, a phenomenal talent but managers found it hard to exploit that talent to its fullest within a team framework
He was decent today but it was a lost cause
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
Another question... In hurling for a goal to count is it the whole of the ball has to cross the line or is that soccer? How much of the ball has to cross the line?
Tj Reid for sure. Maybe Diathi Burke? Canning in with a shout as always. Kelly good shout. I would say Bennett too. Deburca yes.
Hegarty poty.
T.J. for sure. They were in semi-final and he's head and shoulders above anybody else in that KK team this year.
Hegarty a cert for POTY after today.
I wonder who'll get Young Player of the Year - I think you have to be U21?
Quote from: marty34 on December 13, 2020, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 08:16:52 PM
Another question... In hurling for a goal to count is it the whole of the ball has to cross the line or is that soccer? How much of the ball has to cross the line?
Tj Reid for sure. Maybe Diathi Burke? Canning in with a shout as always. Kelly good shout. I would say Bennett too. Deburca yes.
Hegarty poty.
T.J. for sure. They were in semi-final and he's head and shoulders above anybody else in that KK team this year.
Hegarty a cert for POTY after today.
I wonder who'll get Young Player of the Year - I think you have to be U21?
Which hugely narrows it down as players 21 or under are finding it increasingly difficult to make an impact at senior due to the physical requirements
Think nearly of Waterford's younger lads today were born in 1996 or 1997
Perhaps I'm missing somebody obvious but Jake Morris and Eoin Cody are about the only two I can think of who made any sort of impact this year
Tommy Conroy or Eoghan McLaughlin will get the football YPOTY
Limerick are just a machine at the minute, keep going like that and they'll take some stopping.
The power, pace as precision of them is something to behold and whilst they don't overly bother with the goals and that looks like their opponents have a chance they really don't. Much was made of the Waterford goal chances but if Quaid had of been beaten by any of them it would have been poor from him and he's anything but poor.
Their modus operandi is well documented by now, but no one has the personnel to better either their half back line or half forward line on puck outs in either direction and that's the platform they build from.
Their tackling is ferocious and borderline a lot of the time, another lose hurley yesterday catching Gleeson in the toy dolls, accidental of course ;) and they do concede a lot of frees in the process, but they strangle the dear life out of their opponents in the process.
Well done Limerick, wonder is JP going to give every club a few bob again? ;D ;D
Quote from: johnnycool on December 14, 2020, 10:07:01 AM
Limerick are just a machine at the minute, keep going like that and they'll take some stopping.
The power, pace as precision of them is something to behold and whilst they don't overly bother with the goals and that looks like their opponents have a chance they really don't. Much was made of the Waterford goal chances but if Quaid had of been beaten by any of them it would have been poor from him and he's anything but poor.
Their modus operandi is well documented by now, but no one has the personnel to better either their half back line or half forward line on puck outs in either direction and that's the platform they build from.
Their tackling is ferocious and borderline a lot of the time, another lose hurley yesterday catching Gleeson in the toy dolls, accidental of course ;) and they do concede a lot of frees in the process, but they strangle the dear life out of their opponents in the process.
Well done Limerick, wonder is JP going to give every club a few bob again? ;D ;D
Before the semis everyone was saying that the winner of Limerick and Galway would win the final.
Waterford aren't the finished article yet. Neither are Kilkenny.
Next year should be quite open. And the Old Firm lost out again.
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Cork have a good U20's team but like their seniors the brand of hurling they play needs freshening up before it gets to make a difference at senior. Cork being Cork believe in the Cork way and their inability to forge a defensive shield will be their Achilles heel irrespective of how good their forwards are as individuals.
Tipp need to freshen up alright, maybe they've lads in the wings capable of stepping up, we should get a glimpse of them in the League next year and then we'll know better.
Kilkenny with TJ in their ranks will always be there or there about. They look uncomfortable with the modern possession type game being asked of them and even Richie Hogan commented on them that when Waterford applied the pressure they reverted to type and launched high balls into the forwards, ate up by Waterford that day. They need to find a new Kilkenny way as they haven't got the JJ's, the Larkins, the Brennans, the Shefflins, the Comerfords in their ranks anymore, but that was a once in a generation of a team. They might pick up the odd Leinster but hard to see them compete beyond a semi-final.
I'd say Limerick would love to meet Kilkenny in a final in the next year or so and really go to town on them.
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
I wouldn't write them off but we should get a few more all Irelands out of the peasants
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 13, 2020, 09:03:48 PM
It definitely looks to me like there is an upsurge in premiership injuries at least. Lack of pre season in any code doesn't look to be helping. I think vandjk had some help on his mind.
Compressed season plus lack of pre season can't be helping. Particularly amateur athletes.
Zero contact for that one
Talk about rewriting facts
I support Everton.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 14, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Cork have a good U20's team but like their seniors the brand of hurling they play needs freshening up before it gets to make a difference at senior. Cork being Cork believe in the Cork way and their inability to forge a defensive shield will be their Achilles heel irrespective of how good their forwards are as individuals.
Tipp need to freshen up alright, maybe they've lads in the wings capable of stepping up, we should get a glimpse of them in the League next year and then we'll know better.
Kilkenny with TJ in their ranks will always be there or there about. They look uncomfortable with the modern possession type game being asked of them and even Richie Hogan commented on them that when Waterford applied the pressure they reverted to type and launched high balls into the forwards, ate up by Waterford that day. They need to find a new Kilkenny way as they haven't got the JJ's, the Larkins, the Brennans, the Shefflins, the Comerfords in their ranks anymore, but that was a once in a generation of a team. They might pick up the odd Leinster but hard to see them compete beyond a semi-final.
I'd say Limerick would love to meet Kilkenny in a final in the next year or so and really go to town on them.
Imagine how far behind KK would be if they hadn't TJ? Would be well beaten by the Deise only for him, and Waterford were well beaten yesterday.
This Limerick team could retire a few of the established older hurlers; Tipp will be looking at some of their 30+ players and wonder how they're going to compete with yesterday. Joe Canning will be hard pressed to be deployed in the HF line again v Limerick, ditto David Burke. Will Kevin Moran give it another season? Cork will say to themselves, "look how far off yesterday's standard we are". Not axiomatic that Limerick will dominate, the 'lesser traditional' teams don't tend to as much, but next season may be the best chance to halt them. If they win 2 in succession, they'll go hell-bent for 3.
Quote from: mouview on December 14, 2020, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 14, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Cork have a good U20's team but like their seniors the brand of hurling they play needs freshening up before it gets to make a difference at senior. Cork being Cork believe in the Cork way and their inability to forge a defensive shield will be their Achilles heel irrespective of how good their forwards are as individuals.
Tipp need to freshen up alright, maybe they've lads in the wings capable of stepping up, we should get a glimpse of them in the League next year and then we'll know better.
Kilkenny with TJ in their ranks will always be there or there about. They look uncomfortable with the modern possession type game being asked of them and even Richie Hogan commented on them that when Waterford applied the pressure they reverted to type and launched high balls into the forwards, ate up by Waterford that day. They need to find a new Kilkenny way as they haven't got the JJ's, the Larkins, the Brennans, the Shefflins, the Comerfords in their ranks anymore, but that was a once in a generation of a team. They might pick up the odd Leinster but hard to see them compete beyond a semi-final.
I'd say Limerick would love to meet Kilkenny in a final in the next year or so and really go to town on them.
Imagine how far behind KK would be if they hadn't TJ? Would be well beaten by the Deise only for him, and Waterford were well beaten yesterday.
This Limerick team could retire a few of the established older hurlers; Tipp will be looking at some of their 30+ players and wonder how they're going to compete with yesterday. Joe Canning will be hard pressed to be deployed in the HF line again v Limerick, ditto David Burke. Will Kevin Moran give it another season? Cork will say to themselves, "look how far off yesterday's standard we are". Not axiomatic that Limerick will dominate, the 'lesser traditional' teams don't tend to as much, but next season may be the best chance to halt them. If they win 2 in succession, they'll go hell-bent for 3.
The energy levels and tactical flexibility required to win 2 in a row are immense.
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: mouview on December 14, 2020, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 14, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Cork have a good U20's team but like their seniors the brand of hurling they play needs freshening up before it gets to make a difference at senior. Cork being Cork believe in the Cork way and their inability to forge a defensive shield will be their Achilles heel irrespective of how good their forwards are as individuals.
Tipp need to freshen up alright, maybe they've lads in the wings capable of stepping up, we should get a glimpse of them in the League next year and then we'll know better.
Kilkenny with TJ in their ranks will always be there or there about. They look uncomfortable with the modern possession type game being asked of them and even Richie Hogan commented on them that when Waterford applied the pressure they reverted to type and launched high balls into the forwards, ate up by Waterford that day. They need to find a new Kilkenny way as they haven't got the JJ's, the Larkins, the Brennans, the Shefflins, the Comerfords in their ranks anymore, but that was a once in a generation of a team. They might pick up the odd Leinster but hard to see them compete beyond a semi-final.
I'd say Limerick would love to meet Kilkenny in a final in the next year or so and really go to town on them.
Imagine how far behind KK would be if they hadn't TJ? Would be well beaten by the Deise only for him, and Waterford were well beaten yesterday.
This Limerick team could retire a few of the established older hurlers; Tipp will be looking at some of their 30+ players and wonder how they're going to compete with yesterday. Joe Canning will be hard pressed to be deployed in the HF line again v Limerick, ditto David Burke. Will Kevin Moran give it another season? Cork will say to themselves, "look how far off yesterday's standard we are". Not axiomatic that Limerick will dominate, the 'lesser traditional' teams don't tend to as much, but next season may be the best chance to halt them. If they win 2 in succession, they'll go hell-bent for 3.
The energy levels and tactical flexibility required to win 2 in a row are immense.
ah but they use their subs well, and a few lads back from injury in their defence. They'll not care much for the league in 2021 I'd say.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 15, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 15, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
Quote from: mouview on December 14, 2020, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 14, 2020, 04:00:13 PM
Quote from: didlyi on December 14, 2020, 01:44:19 PM
Are the old firm a thing of the past in Hurling now? Cork going 15 years without a title. KK looking like they could break a new famine record of their own soon. Tipp to be fair wont be too far away if they can freshen up things with prospective young players. Even if Limerick win 2 or 3 in a row its not a bad thing for hurling.
Cork have a good U20's team but like their seniors the brand of hurling they play needs freshening up before it gets to make a difference at senior. Cork being Cork believe in the Cork way and their inability to forge a defensive shield will be their Achilles heel irrespective of how good their forwards are as individuals.
Tipp need to freshen up alright, maybe they've lads in the wings capable of stepping up, we should get a glimpse of them in the League next year and then we'll know better.
Kilkenny with TJ in their ranks will always be there or there about. They look uncomfortable with the modern possession type game being asked of them and even Richie Hogan commented on them that when Waterford applied the pressure they reverted to type and launched high balls into the forwards, ate up by Waterford that day. They need to find a new Kilkenny way as they haven't got the JJ's, the Larkins, the Brennans, the Shefflins, the Comerfords in their ranks anymore, but that was a once in a generation of a team. They might pick up the odd Leinster but hard to see them compete beyond a semi-final.
I'd say Limerick would love to meet Kilkenny in a final in the next year or so and really go to town on them.
Imagine how far behind KK would be if they hadn't TJ? Would be well beaten by the Deise only for him, and Waterford were well beaten yesterday.
This Limerick team could retire a few of the established older hurlers; Tipp will be looking at some of their 30+ players and wonder how they're going to compete with yesterday. Joe Canning will be hard pressed to be deployed in the HF line again v Limerick, ditto David Burke. Will Kevin Moran give it another season? Cork will say to themselves, "look how far off yesterday's standard we are". Not axiomatic that Limerick will dominate, the 'lesser traditional' teams don't tend to as much, but next season may be the best chance to halt them. If they win 2 in succession, they'll go hell-bent for 3.
The energy levels and tactical flexibility required to win 2 in a row are immense.
ah but they use their subs well, and a few lads back from injury in their defence. They'll not care much for the league in 2021 I'd say.
[/quot
The thing is that Linerick have been in 6 of the last 7 Munster Minor Finals, winning 3 of them including most recently last year, in 2019.
Also in this years munster minor final so more talent coming through to the senior squad over the next few years.
No sign of letting on too.
Like Dublin in the football, keep on top and keep the foot on the neck of everybody else.
Again, I've no issues with teams raising the bar...
Get your house in order, raise the standards
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40190562.html?fbclid=IwAR3Fw8ARIvQR86RtMK4p52lG2_eq5fpEwKiOWthZ37vvIRQhgNutpBwt9v4 (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40190562.html?fbclid=IwAR3Fw8ARIvQR86RtMK4p52lG2_eq5fpEwKiOWthZ37vvIRQhgNutpBwt9v4)
Interesting article on limerick's training. That's them and Waterford I have read about looking at running biomechanics. I guess it's just another one of those things teams are now looking at to gain an edge.
Plenty of complaints at the weekend about RTE coverage of the Joe McDonagh cup. They cut to ads rather than the winning speech. Then there was Donal Og's criticism of Antrim based on one performance (he did say based on that performance which would lead you to believe he hasn't watched the rest of the games). While he maybe wasn't far wrong if he hasn't watched that competition then that is poor. Gary O'Kane was on twitter saying an RTE journalist had said to him how well the Slaughtneil players were doing for antrim too ???
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 16, 2020, 08:37:36 AM
Plenty of complaints at the weekend about RTE coverage of the Joe McDonagh cup. They cut to ads rather than the winning speech. Then there was Donal Og's criticism of Antrim based on one performance (he did say based on that performance which would lead you to believe he hasn't watched the rest of the games). While he maybe wasn't far wrong if he hasn't watched that competition then that is poor. Gary O'Kane was on twitter saying an RTE journalist had said to him how well the Slaughtneil players were doing for antrim too ???
I wouldn't get my knickers in a twist, there is no way Donal would have paid to watch any of the Antrim games that were on this year, nor would he have any reason too, their only concern is Div 1, Henry was spot on with his assessments and his knowledge of clubs in Antrim would be very good. Daly only knows to well from personal experience of Antrim hurling when they dumped Dublin on their ass in Championship.
The first half of the senior game reflected the first half of the Joe McDonagh game, was very fractured at times and the fluency wasn't what you'd expect, maybe (even for Croke standard) having hurling 3 games in December at headquarters wasn't the best idea, as while the pitch looked great, it cut up.
For Antrim and Kerry, they didn't perform to the standards they would have normally, nerves, the occasion, playing live in front of the nation and what was at stake, Liam McCarthy cup...
Management have plenty to take away from this, and loads to improve on, winning was the icing on the cake for the season they had, with a few more additions and better S&C over the close season we'll certainly get better. Whether we take a scalp or not is another thing.
Familiarity to me also a big thing.
Hardly getting my knickers in a twist but if you're getting paid to analyse things and pass comment on prospects of teams then you would think maybe you'd watch more than one game from a team... it's just fairly typical of the respect given to things outside the top tier. RTE should have been showing highlights earlier in the year too but don't care. It's just fairly typical of the lack of respect and is part of the reason why people don't want the football to go this direction.
We have loads to improve on and probably will struggle at the higher level but we're there and going the right direction so that's a start.
Limerick claim the Munster U17 title, the machine keeps on turning.............
Quote from: johnnycool on December 22, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Limerick claim the Munster U17 title, the machine keeps on turning.............
Only after the linesman has his flag up after Tipp had scored probably the winning point at the end of injury time in normal time
They have a bit to do yet before they win their first Minor all ireland since 1984
Quote from: johnnycool on December 22, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Limerick claim the Munster U17 title, the machine keeps on turning.............
Their U20s were well beaten by Cork in the semi'. Not a given that the conveyor belt is remorseless as yet..
Quote from: mouview on December 22, 2020, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 22, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Limerick claim the Munster U17 title, the machine keeps on turning.............
Their U20s were well beaten by Cork in the semi'. Not a given that the conveyor belt is remorseless as yet..
Cork and Tipp Munster final tomorrow night, Cork really are banking on getting a few players out of this team, so are Tipp, Limerick's need is less as their senior team are a lot younger demographic and they're on top of the pire.
Galway to do battle with Dublin in the same grade in the New year for some reason! Didn't get to see much of either game so can't comment.
Quote from: johnnycool on December 22, 2020, 12:05:46 PM
Quote from: mouview on December 22, 2020, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 22, 2020, 10:06:44 AM
Limerick claim the Munster U17 title, the machine keeps on turning.............
Their U20s were well beaten by Cork in the semi'. Not a given that the conveyor belt is remorseless as yet..
Cork and Tipp Munster final tomorrow night, Cork really are banking on getting a few players out of this team, so are Tipp, Limerick's need is less as their senior team are a lot younger demographic and they're on top of the pire.
Galway to do battle with Dublin in the same grade in the New year for some reason! Didn't get to see much of either game so can't comment.
Tipp going for 3 in a row of all Ireland's at the u21/20 level,broke cork hearts in the Munster final last year with them getting a goal to win with the last puck of the games,then destroyed them in the first 10 minutes of the all ireland
16 of last years squad available from last year with 4/5 going for 3 all Ireland's
Doubts persist over the management since bevans/Cahill left last year and they were lucky to get over Waterford
Galway Dublin is an interesting one,Galway will start as favorites with a team laden with lads with multiple minor all Ireland's and Donal O Shea a rock solid freetaker but given the ground conditions in early Jan,I expect a powerful Dublin outfit to give them buckets of it
Winners of Leinster and Munster play each other 9/10 in the final whether that goes ahead or not is in the lap of the gods