https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0317/1438502-canavan-ditching-finals-would-aid-integrity-of-league/
RTÉ football analyst Peter Canavan believes the time may have come to dispense with league finals, arguing that it would benefit the integrity of the competition.
While no team has officially booked their spot in the Division 1 final in 2024 - though Derry are on the brink - Canavan believes that league finals increase the likelihood of teams picking weakened sides in these circumstances.
Last season, Mayo were already assured of league final place with a round to spare, availing of the opportunity, in the midst of a tight schedule, to rest players for the final game against Monaghan.
Though the match was of little consequence to Mayo, it had huge implications for the relegation battle, Vinny Corey's side grabbing a vital win in Castlebar, which ultimately saw Armagh demoted after they lost away to Tyrone on the same afternoon.
In Canavan's estimation, if the league title was simply awarded to the team that finished top of the table after seven rounds, this would lessen the chances of this scenario occurring.
"The nature of the league with the league finals is that teams that are already through, could play weakened teams," Canavan said on Allianz League Sunday.
"And that could be to the detriment of some team. It could put some team down.
"I would say there would be a lot of support if they decided to look into the structure of the National League, to do away with the league finals. I know that mightn't go down well in some quarters.
"The integrity of the competition is paramount and at the minute I don't think you're getting that.
"And if it was a straight race to the top, then Kerry would be going out trying to win their last game, Donegal and Armagh likewise in their last game in Division 2."
I'd agree with Canavan here particularly on division 2,3 & 4 finals. It would free up an extra week for the calendar. However I don't see the GAA foregoing the gate receipts and scrapping them.
Yeah, I agree. Whoever comes first wins the league.
Give lads an extra week break until championship.
I agree.
I agree with scrapping them to free up an extra week and i think the team that finishes top should be the league champions simple as that. But im not sure it would totally solve that problem. Eg a team could have the league won after 6 rounds and so field a weakened team in their last game to give their lads rest. this could result in the same situation that canavan described happened last year.
Quote from: yellowcard on March 18, 2024, 02:58:25 PMI'd agree with Canavan here particularly on division 2,3 & 4 finals. It would free up an extra week for the calendar. However I don't see the GAA foregoing the gate receipts and scrapping them.
It is a bit of an embarrassment that teams are trying to avoid playing in the final.
Wonder what the sponsor is thinking about it.
simple answer,
Move the All-ireland final to third Sunday in August.You could count on one hand the amount of club championships that begin before September,
Why, because all the young fellas who are on their county panels or are on the fringes of it have spent 5,6 or 7 months living like monks, and then decide to travel for a month or two. Good for them.
Ultimately, the GAA have created this scenario. If
Two teams (eg. Arm v Dgl) go full out to win their final, they could be out again in the championship a week later. So of course teams will prioritise the championship game .
The calendar is too condensed. Give some time between the league and championship and the league finals will be more respected by teams
no it make last day more boring as less to play for sometimes
split league in two if concerned with fixtures or have divisions of 6 or 7
Quote from: dec on March 18, 2024, 02:32:26 PMhttps://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0317/1438502-canavan-ditching-finals-would-aid-integrity-of-league/
RTÉ football analyst Peter Canavan believes the time may have come to dispense with league finals, arguing that it would benefit the integrity of the competition.
While no team has officially booked their spot in the Division 1 final in 2024 - though Derry are on the brink - Canavan believes that league finals increase the likelihood of teams picking weakened sides in these circumstances.
Last season, Mayo were already assured of league final place with a round to spare, availing of the opportunity, in the midst of a tight schedule, to rest players for the final game against Monaghan.
Though the match was of little consequence to Mayo, it had huge implications for the relegation battle, Vinny Corey's side grabbing a vital win in Castlebar, which ultimately saw Armagh demoted after they lost away to Tyrone on the same afternoon.
In Canavan's estimation, if the league title was simply awarded to the team that finished top of the table after seven rounds, this would lessen the chances of this scenario occurring.
"The nature of the league with the league finals is that teams that are already through, could play weakened teams," Canavan said on Allianz League Sunday.
"And that could be to the detriment of some team. It could put some team down.
"I would say there would be a lot of support if they decided to look into the structure of the National League, to do away with the league finals. I know that mightn't go down well in some quarters.
"The integrity of the competition is paramount and at the minute I don't think you're getting that.
"And if it was a straight race to the top, then Kerry would be going out trying to win their last game, Donegal and Armagh likewise in their last game in Division 2."
if only the league leader wins the league one team could be playing against a team fighting relegation where another team trying to win league his playing a team with nothing to play for no matter what you do your going to have these scenarios.
exactly why can they not move all ireland back why the obsession with finishing early.
Quote from: marty34 on March 18, 2024, 03:01:21 PMYeah, I agree. Whoever comes first wins the league.
Give lads an extra week break until championship.
lads an extra break is not only a few teams that will be playing the week after league final anyway
I'd agree. There could be some added spice n the last round and the fans would come out and rally locally if certain things were on the line.
Whereas, let's be honest few get riled up by a nice game in Croke Park with one eye on the championship.
its the nature of straight leagues to have some teams with nothing to play for on last day you could increase some jeopardy by having the team that comes 3rd bottom enter a playoff promotion/relegation with the team that came 3rd in lower division.
Always been stupid. A league with 7 games and there is a final for top 2. Be understandable if there were 20 games, but not enough teams in the divisions for this setup. Plus you see teams who are near the relegation zone in the penultimate week and nearly make the final by the next.
if two teams are competing for league and there is no final what about the trophy celebration i dont think the gaa are going to employ someone to fly a helicopter like premier league.
I've often thought they should have 3 divisions, with no finals. This might not fit well with the present model for Sam, but you could still put the top teams in Sam, except that the cut would have in the middle of Div 2.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 18, 2024, 07:57:34 PMI've often thought they should have 3 divisions, with no finals. This might not fit well with the present model for Sam, but you could still put the top teams in Sam, except that the cut would have in the middle of Div 2.
I'd go for 8 divisions, 2 groups of four in each level
Each team gets 6 games, 3 home 3 away. Top from 1A play top from 1B in final. Same with other grades
Bottom team relegated , the following seasons placings are based on current seasons final standings
Gets rid of the unfairness of some getting 4 home games to others 3.
Am still of the opinion to evenly split Div1/2 in 1A and 1B and this is the basis of the championship with 1 team in each section going up and down with Division 2 [Previous 3]
The original video
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1769490317210755171
I'm happy enough with them. Any sort of silverware in Croke Park will always mean something and even the chance to play there is a massive thing. Any player thats not a Dub with 57 Leinsters in a row would agree.
Look at Leitrim a few years back sure hadn't they most of the county out in Dublin. Push the championship back a week or two.
Quote from: Eire90 on March 18, 2024, 06:15:04 PMif two teams are competing for league and there is no final what about the trophy celebration i dont think the gaa are going to employ someone to fly a helicopter like premier league.
You know they have replicas of the trophies, right? No need for helicopters.
The last thing we need is 4 helicopters in the sky on the last day.
He has a point at this stage you'd have to say. League finals are a hindrance for a lot of county teams and many actively avoid them. It's a consequence of the new structure.
Look at Cavan - they 100% wanted avoid a Div 2 league final on Easter weekend as they are out a week later in a huge game against Monaghan in Ulster championship. Mayo similar in Div 1 - and they learned from their mistake last year.
So when you get the above happening it's time for a change. Unless they move the calendar and the All Ireland finals back a couple of weeks.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on March 18, 2024, 11:09:19 PMHe has a point at this stage you'd have to say. League finals are a hindrance for a lot of county teams and many actively avoid them. It's a consequence of the new structure.
Look at Cavan - they 100% wanted avoid a Div 2 league final on Easter weekend as they are out a week later in a huge game against Monaghan in Ulster championship. Mayo similar in Div 1 - and they learned from their mistake last year.
So when you get the above happening it's time for a change. Unless they move the calendar and the All Ireland finals back a couple of weeks.
I'm not sure with all the will in the world Cavan would have made a Div 2 final.
So with only 7 games, half with 4 away games, and, often, 3 or 4 teams could be relegated in the final round, teams are going out to lose / throw games? To gamble and keep themselves in the safety of mid table.
Do players / management not want games to bring players on?
Do modern players need more than 7 days to recover?
I think the league is worth protecting and winning a national competition in Croke Park on a finals day is something worth striving for by any team. We should be building up the significance of and celebrating the achievements of counties winning a national league title.
What Derry has achieved so far this year is hugely impressive and watching them in a league final v Dublin in Croker in front of 40,000 plus would interest me far more greatly than having to watch the 24 championship group games dragged out over 4 weeks that are played to lose only four counties from the All-Ireland race by the end of it. We should be protecting the big footballing days on our calendar, not trying to get rid of them.
Don't entirely disagree with canavan's sentiment, but you'd have to say that without a league final, there'd be far less likelihood of games having anything on the line and most games would likely be dead rubbers.
No need for d.2, d.3 or d.4 finals - pointless.
Re div 1, be nice to have some incentive that'd really make it worth winning - guaranteed top seed in Sam groups or something?
Or, something I proposed before, get rid of the neutral game (which is stupid anyway) and have the provincial winners and 4 second seeds (determined by league placings) get 2 home games.
To make the league final count - we could make League winners the top seed, the remaining 3 top seeds could be the winners of the strongest 3 provinces - determined by average league placings of participants.
That'd maybe put the warm weather training out of Kerry!!!
Quote from: onefineday on March 19, 2024, 12:30:04 AMDon't entirely disagree with canavan's sentiment, but you'd have to say that without a league final, there'd be far less likelihood of games having anything on the line and most games would likely be dead rubbers.
No need for d.2, d.3 or d.4 finals - pointless.
Re div 1, be nice to have some incentive that'd really make it worth winning - guaranteed top seed in Sam groups or something?
Or, something I proposed before, get rid of the neutral game (which is stupid anyway) and have the provincial winners and 4 second seeds (determined by league placings) get 2 home games.
To make the league final count - we could make League winners the top seed, the remaining 3 top seeds could be the winners of the strongest 3 provinces - determined by average league placings of participants.
That'd maybe put the warm weather training out of Kerry!!!
i have said merge the connaght and munster championships and the 4 seeds be 3 provincial winners and league champions.
Do away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
Quote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
Its fairly unlikely that anyone wins Sam outside of Dublin and Kerry. Derry, Galway, Mayo, ourselves, Tyrone and maybe Donegal if everything went right and we got a bit of luck have some hope.
The league finals are the only chance (along with the Tailteann) for 90% of teams to win something in Croker.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
It's Croke Park. Its every players dream. 99% of players will never play in it.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 19, 2024, 08:25:06 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
It's Croke Park. Its every players dream. 99% of players will never play in it.
Nonsense.
Every player's dream is to win championships. Some of that dream will involve Croke Park. But it's not the focus. Not even close.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:27:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 19, 2024, 08:25:06 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
It's Croke Park. Its every players dream. 99% of players will never play in it.
Nonsense.
Every player's dream is to win championships. Some of that dream will involve Croke Park. But it's not the focus. Not even close.
So the schools finals shouldn't be played at croke pk infront of a few thousand. Sure who would want to play there.
Theres plenty of people in Cullyhanna that would disagree. I'm sure it's the same for all the other clubs around the country. Playing in Croker is special to any player, no matter the occasion.
Quote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:47:35 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:27:27 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 19, 2024, 08:25:06 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
It's Croke Park. Its every players dream. 99% of players will never play in it.
Nonsense.
Every player's dream is to win championships. Some of that dream will involve Croke Park. But it's not the focus. Not even close.
So the schools finals shouldn't be played at croke pk infront of a few thousand. Sure who would want to play there.
No these shouldn't be played in Croke, and there's decades of evidence that the Hogan Cup doesn't gain any more significance from being played in an empty stadium.
Yes some schoolboys get to boast how they've played in Croke Park. But anyone who might place that "achievement" on anything close to the same pedestal as winning a Hogan, well they don't get it. They just don't get what it's all about.
Nice for the poor relations to get a game in Croke Park in fairness.
Quote from: nrico2006 on March 18, 2024, 05:58:52 PMAlways been stupid. A league with 7 games and there is a final for top 2. Be understandable if there were 20 games, but not enough teams in the divisions for this setup. Plus you see teams who are near the relegation zone in the penultimate week and nearly make the final by the next.
The flip side to this is that since we only play each other once in the league, there is no chance to redeem yourself from a "slip". The league final provides that for the 2 most consistent teams in that league perhaps?
I quite like the Div 1 league finals, but at the lower divisions, promotion is the prize imo and not a league title.
What about doing something drastic? Maybe league winners get a bye in the first round of their provincial championship and don't make the championship draw until the league has finished.
That would give some real value to the Div2/3/4 winners in particular.
The AI structure now does give weight to league positions but maybe not enough?
Or we just leave it as is. For some teams the only realistic chance of winning a competition, or getting to play in Croke park is a league final and that might be their priority.
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 19, 2024, 09:37:59 AMQuote from: nrico2006 on March 18, 2024, 05:58:52 PMAlways been stupid. A league with 7 games and there is a final for top 2. Be understandable if there were 20 games, but not enough teams in the divisions for this setup. Plus you see teams who are near the relegation zone in the penultimate week and nearly make the final by the next.
The flip side to this is that since we only play each other once in the league, there is no chance to redeem yourself from a "slip". The league final provides that for the 2 most consistent teams in that league perhaps?
I quite like the Div 1 league finals, but at the lower divisions, promotion is the prize imo and not a league title.
What about doing something drastic? Maybe league winners get a bye in the first round of their provincial championship and don't make the championship draw until the league has finished.
That would give some real value to the Div2/3/4 winners in particular.
The AI structure now does give weight to league positions but maybe not enough?
Or we just leave it as is. For some teams the only realistic chance of winning a competition, or getting to play in Croke park is a league final and that might be their priority.
That's it, most teams in fact. And every player on those county teams put in a serious shift as well.
It doesn't serve the game well to belittle everything outside of the Sam Maguire.
No problem with seeing any national final being played in Croke Park whatever the grade. This applies to junior club finals, Nick Rackard Cups, Tailteann Cups, Hogan Cups. Those players have earned the right to the big day out in HQ. Yes, the atmosphere can be flat in a big empty stadium but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of players and supporters are delighted to play them in Croke Park. It's not all about just playing the big county matches there.
Agree with that yellowcard.
League Finals are a bit illogical but the D3 and 4 Finals do give weaker teams a chance of a Croke Park national Final.
And of course the D1 and 2 Finals bring in a lot of €€€s
Doing away with finals only served to suit the big 6-8 teams. To hell with the rest of them seems the opinion. There 20plus teams not make a top 8 quarter final in the championship. Hell 16 teams can't even play in the proper championship. Keep going the way we are, and it just end up like the Hurling championship.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
Tell me you've never played gaelic football without telling me........
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 19, 2024, 11:48:57 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
Tell me you've never played gaelic football without telling me........
Eh... okay then.
——-
The "every player's dream" nonsense peddled by pundits about Croke Park, comes from the same pond as the soccer lads when they used to peddle "every player's dream" is to play at Wembley.
They don't do that so much over the water now. For they found out that playing the FA Cup final in Cardiff didn't change the occasion a tap. And they kind of worked out the "scoring in a cup final" dream is stadium independent.
Quote from: tbrick18 on March 19, 2024, 09:37:59 AMQuote from: nrico2006 on March 18, 2024, 05:58:52 PMAlways been stupid. A league with 7 games and there is a final for top 2. Be understandable if there were 20 games, but not enough teams in the divisions for this setup. Plus you see teams who are near the relegation zone in the penultimate week and nearly make the final by the next.
The flip side to this is that since we only play each other once in the league, there is no chance to redeem yourself from a "slip". The league final provides that for the 2 most consistent teams in that league perhaps?
I quite like the Div 1 league finals, but at the lower divisions, promotion is the prize imo and not a league title.
What about doing something drastic? Maybe league winners get a bye in the first round of their provincial championship and don't make the championship draw until the league has finished.
That would give some real value to the Div2/3/4 winners in particular.
The AI structure now does give weight to league positions but maybe not enough?
Or we just leave it as is. For some teams the only realistic chance of winning a competition, or getting to play in Croke park is a league final and that might be their priority.
Could just seed the provincial draws based on final league position. The difference between 3rd & 4th seed could change the chances of a provincial final (and subsequent all Ireland seeding), and simultaneously helps ensure that inadequate teams don't take up a San Maguire spot because a lopsided provincial draw gifted them a run to the final.
Quote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 12:48:52 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on March 19, 2024, 11:48:57 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
Tell me you've never played gaelic football without telling me........
Eh... okay then.
——-
The "every player's dream" nonsense peddled by pundits about Croke Park, comes from the same pond as the soccer lads when they used to peddle "every player's dream" is to play at Wembley.
They don't do that so much over the water now. For they found out that playing the FA Cup final in Cardiff didn't change the occasion a tap. And they kind of worked out the "scoring in a cup final" dream is stadium independent.
You might actually be covering about 1 or maybe 2% of footballers. Why you have to bring English professional soccer into this I'll never know.
County footballers, the vast majority will win nothing. A number will maybe get to play a league decider in Croke Pk. This will be their pinnacle, same goes for club players. The fact that you're sitting on your backside having to deal with looking at empty seats and a quiet atmosphere won't really come into their thinking. What will, is the fact they've put in a mountain of work and will be pulling up to HQ in their team bus surrounded by their team mates to be supported my family and friends.
Quote from: JoG2 on March 19, 2024, 04:39:45 PMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 12:48:52 PMQuote from: Keyser soze on March 19, 2024, 11:48:57 AMQuote from: thewobbler on March 19, 2024, 08:22:42 AMQuote from: snoopdog on March 19, 2024, 08:09:31 AMDo away with the only chance of a day out in croke pk for silverware for most duv 3 and 4 teams. Again the bugger counties always push for what suits them.
There are too many matches in too little time. Another month would solve a lot of problems
For the absolute life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would want to play in front of 5-10k people in Croke Park. The atmosphere is shit at these games. Absolute shit.
Tell me you've never played gaelic football without telling me........
Eh... okay then.
——-
The "every player's dream" nonsense peddled by pundits about Croke Park, comes from the same pond as the soccer lads when they used to peddle "every player's dream" is to play at Wembley.
They don't do that so much over the water now. For they found out that playing the FA Cup final in Cardiff didn't change the occasion a tap. And they kind of worked out the "scoring in a cup final" dream is stadium independent.
You might actually be covering about 1 or maybe 2% of footballers. Why you have to bring English professional soccer into this I'll never know.
County footballers, the vast majority will win nothing. A number will maybe get to play a league decider in Croke Pk. This will be their pinnacle, same goes for club players. The fact that you're sitting on your backside having to deal with looking at empty seats and a quiet atmosphere won't really come into their thinking. What will, is the fact they've put in a mountain of work and will be pulling up to HQ in their team bus surrounded by their team mates to be supported my family and friends.
As someone said earlier, the prize below div 1 is promotion. I know as a Derry fan, I had little interest in the league finals over the past few years after promotion had been achieved. I can see the argument for giving teams the chance to play their final in Croker, but with the condensed nature of everything nowadays, you'd have to question the interest that teams have in being there. If they want to play them, that's grand, I've no objection, I just don't see the attraction myself.
Some interesting proposals around increasing the incentive to win the league too - I'd be hugely in favour of something that really rewards league performance and allows us to move on from this attitude of survival is the perfect outcome from a div 1 campaign.
Quote from: onefineday on March 20, 2024, 12:52:49 AMAs someone said earlier, the prize below div 1 is promotion. I know as a Derry fan, I had little interest in the league finals over the past few years after promotion had been achieved. I can see the argument for giving teams the chance to play their final in Croker, but with the condensed nature of everything nowadays, you'd have to question the interest that teams have in being there. If they want to play them, that's grand, I've no objection, I just don't see the attraction myself.
Some interesting proposals around increasing the incentive to win the league too - I'd be hugely in favour of something that really rewards league performance and allows us to move on from this attitude of survival is the perfect outcome fr
om a div 1 campaign.
The Div 3 final will have a real say in who might get that Sam maguire place.
I think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
Quote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
A rule (advanced mark) that 99% is against! Get rid Jarleth!
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2024, 10:05:24 AMQuote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
A rule (advanced mark) that 99% is against! Get rid Jarleth!
If he does nothing but scrap it (and penalties obviously ;)) it'll be a great term.
Jarlath is a figurehead President of a big co op for 3 years not a dictator who can rule by decree.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 10:14:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2024, 10:05:24 AMQuote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
A rule (advanced mark) that 99% is against! Get rid Jarleth!
If he does nothing but scrap it (and penalties obviously ;)) it'll be a great term.
I'm not a while man for the penalties and don't think it's a great way for teams to go out, but they're very exciting
Quote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2024, 10:28:03 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 10:14:47 AMQuote from: JoG2 on March 20, 2024, 10:05:24 AMQuote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
A rule (advanced mark) that 99% is against! Get rid Jarleth!
If he does nothing but scrap it (and penalties obviously ;)) it'll be a great term.
I'm not a while man for the penalties and don't think it's a great way for teams to go out, but they're very exciting
I've too much ptsd from them!
But yeah be very exciting for the neutral alright!
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 10:36:45 AMBut yeah be very exciting for the neutral alright!
But fairly shite for Armagh fans.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2024, 11:46:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 10:36:45 AMBut yeah be very exciting for the neutral alright!
But fairly shite for Armagh fans.
We'll get to the all ireland final this year having won all our games on penalties ;).
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 12:10:00 PMQuote from: armaghniac on March 20, 2024, 11:46:28 AMQuote from: Armagh18 on March 20, 2024, 10:36:45 AMBut yeah be very exciting for the neutral alright!
But fairly shite for Armagh fans.
We'll get to the all ireland final this year having won all our games on penalties ;).
I'll take that!
Quote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
I doubt if anyone in Croke Park can argue with this reality.
just stupid.
Make the all-Ireland third sunday in August, they will still have time for concerts in Late August/September
Quote from: joemamas on March 20, 2024, 01:30:15 PMQuote from: illdecide on March 20, 2024, 09:39:10 AMI think the GAA season is too condensed and needs to go back to the old format of September finals, this leaves enough time between games and allows for replays etc. As someone mentioned the club Championships are only kicking into gear around late Aug and September anyway and by that stage there are only 2 teams left in the Championship so it has minimal effect on the Club scene.
Regarding the League finals this will allow the finals to be played leaving 3-4 weeks before Championship time and giving teams a good quality game leading into Championship, some years the league will go the wire and some years it can be wrapped up with a game or 2 to spare but I suppose that's the luck of the draw...we got relegated last year because of that which was a bit unfair but if we'd taken care of business earlier then it wouldn't have mattered.
Ohh...and while you are at it Jarleth can you please dump that stupid "Mark" rule, we have a good product so stop ruining it.
I doubt if anyone in Croke Park can argue with this reality.
just stupid.
Make the all-Ireland third sunday in August, they will still have time for concerts in Late August/September
The split season is one of the best things that was introduced into the GAA in recent years. It put the emphasis back onto clubs and players overwhelmingly are in favour of it.
This agenda has been pushed by media with a vested interest and it normally only surfaces around the start of August every year when they are struggling for content. I think the AI football final could be pushed back a week to the August bank holiday weekend but other than that it works very well. The game to training ratio has improved for players and they are mostly not having to wait 3/4 weeks between fixtures.
Article on a similar theme in the Irish News.
https://www.irishnews.com/gaa/cahair-okane-league-finals-no-longer-make-any-sense-other-than-financial-3IY7FSC5HFDYFDKWUQW3G2VGLU/
For the life of me I cannot get the rationale for people within the GAA constantly belittling existing GAA competitions. The latest bandwagon is that the league final is a bad thing. Not too long ago there was a school of thought about how league success and AI success were inextricably linked but following Mayo's blip last year there appears to be a head of steam building towards doing away with the league final. And if you think I'm over reacting think back to when the black card and forward mark [to name but 2 shitshow ideas] were introduced and how the momentum for those were generated.
There seems to be a school of thought out there which would support the following:
The McKenna Cup & other provincial preseason comps are a waste of time and should be scrapped.
The provincial championships are not fit for purpose and should replace the preseason comps.
The National League is meaningless and should be used instead as a seeding competition for the Championship.
TBF I never hear these things talked about, or indeed even mentioned, outside the confines of media studios, newspaper columns or this board. But you can be sure that if some windbag says something on TV or a podcast it will have a large band of people on here claiming it as their own original proposal during the following week.
PS not saying Peter C is a windbag, but if Tyrone were top of the league and gunning for the final instead of Derry there might have been a different slant to his argument ;-)
Seems like everyone is jumping on the bandwagon
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0319/1438841-scrap-league-final-or-give-table-toppers-just-rewards/
Should Tipperary and Kilkenny come out on top I think it would make for a more honest and open league final as neither will face each other again unless in the All-Ireland series, so no need to hold back there really. Tipp will be the last team to puck a ball in the Liam MacCarthy and Kilkenny's first game is against Antrim so that window for recovery is good for both those teams. So from a neutral viewpoint we all want a Kilkenny and Tipp win this weekend...
I think the winner of the league should be just that: the top team at the end of the group league games, no semis, no final. Straight away you've knocked off two weeks of games and thus allowed at least a four-week break for teams to fine tune for the championship. A chance for them to let the hair down, take a break away from the cauldron of inter-county life for a few days, maybe even a week, recharge the batteries and go at it full tilt again, just like the good old days!...
Whenever a player or manager retires, the media report always says he won x All Irelands then x National Leagues then the Provincial wins. Check it out the next time a star retires.
The National League is a national title, one of only two per year. It's important.
Mickey harte says it be a disgrace if they scrapped league finals i agree with him and derry would have won league if there was no final.
Andy Moran desperately wants to play the div 4 league final. He said it will be a massive week in Leitrim ahead of their trip to croke pk. Div 3 final winners have a Sam maguire place to play for.
the division 3 final is effectively a sam maguire playoff and first all Ireland knockout match of the season unless either team rich provincial final.
Armagh get a league final and wee Pete is looking them scrapped! Typical! ;D
https://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
The hurling leagues are poor in division 1 as too many meaningless games. There's no way to change the football leagues without putting more weight on the top tier and some form of championship seedings. It is not a huge problem - it's a problem if you're expecting games with the meaning of the championship from January.
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 11:14:36 AMhttps://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Easy solution, let the masses, teams etc get on with the leagues, and Shane and yourself can switch off until the Championship starts?
Quote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2024, 12:16:39 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 11:14:36 AMhttps://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Easy solution, let the masses, teams etc get on with the leagues, and Shane and yourself can switch off until the Championship starts?
I still like the league but I don't think it reflects football reality.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on March 21, 2024, 11:08:38 PMWhenever a player or manager retires, the media report always says he won x All Irelands then x National Leagues then the Provincial wins. Check it out the next time a star retires.
The National League is a national title, one of only two per year. It's important.
The team that would top the league would be awarded the league title.
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:27:21 PMQuote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2024, 12:16:39 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 11:14:36 AMhttps://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Easy solution, let the masses, teams etc get on with the leagues, and Shane and yourself can switch off until the Championship starts?
I still like the league but I don't think it reflects football reality.
You give off an awful lot about it for someone who likes it. The lower divisions reflect the reality a lot more.
Quote from: Cavan19 on March 26, 2024, 10:23:50 AMQuote from: Aaron Boone on March 21, 2024, 11:08:38 PMWhenever a player or manager retires, the media report always says he won x All Irelands then x National Leagues then the Provincial wins. Check it out the next time a star retires.
The National League is a national title, one of only two per year. It's important.
The team that would top the league would be awarded the league title.
Ask the Leitrim lads- the chance to play a final in Croker means loads to them. I'm in favour of as many games vs training as possible and it's another game, plus a great experience for teams that will realistically never get to a big day in championship.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 26, 2024, 10:29:41 AMQuote from: Cavan19 on March 26, 2024, 10:23:50 AMQuote from: Aaron Boone on March 21, 2024, 11:08:38 PMWhenever a player or manager retires, the media report always says he won x All Irelands then x National Leagues then the Provincial wins. Check it out the next time a star retires.
The National League is a national title, one of only two per year. It's important.
The team that would top the league would be awarded the league title.
Ask the Leitrim lads- the chance to play a final in Croker means loads to them. I'm in favour of as many games vs training as possible and it's another game, plus a great experience for teams that will realistically never get to a big day in championship.
I'm not saying it's not i was just responding to the poster who seemed to think that there wouldn't be titles if there was no final. I think there should be finals btw.
if it was up to me id have semi finals beetween 2nd and 3rd and promotion/relegation playoffs between teams finishing 3rd bottom and 3rd top in league below but league would have to be extended a few weeks for that.that would mean galway v cavan this week in D1/D2 Promotion relegation playoff if that format was in place.
Quote from: Eire90 on March 26, 2024, 10:56:46 AMif it was up to me id have semi finals beetween 2nd and 3rd and promotion/relegation playoffs between teams finishing 3rd bottom and 3rd top in league below but league would have to be extended a few weeks for that.that would mean galway v cavan this week in D1/D2 Promotion relegation playoff if that format was in place.
Don't think theres much need for that at the minute- seems to be 10 teams in and around division 1 standard at the minute, 11 if Cork can keep improving. Cavan vs Galway would be a waste of time as things stand.
I don't think there's around 10 at all. There's probably 8 but if donegal hadn't stepped up there'd be 7.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 26, 2024, 11:15:15 AMI don't think there's around 10 at all. There's probably 8 but if donegal hadn't stepped up there'd be 7.
Fair chance the 2 teams that went down this year go straight back up.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 26, 2024, 10:27:23 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:27:21 PMQuote from: JoG2 on March 25, 2024, 12:16:39 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 11:14:36 AMhttps://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Easy solution, let the masses, teams etc get on with the leagues, and Shane and yourself can switch off until the Championship starts?
I still like the league but I don't think it reflects football reality.
You give off an awful lot about it for someone who likes it. The lower divisions reflect the reality a lot more.
The GAA has devalued the league with the new system. I am sure they wanted just to improve things.
"History is a record of "effects" the vast majority of which nobody intended to produce."
― Joseph Alois Schumpeter
What should have been obvious to anyone from the 2023 season:
Mayo made hay in the league playing what was very unstructured football, safe in the knowledge they wouldn't have to face Dublin at all, let alone in Croke. Then through a combination of injuries (the story of their past 5 years), lack of midfield strength (the story of their past 3 years), and a tendency to self-implode and doubt themselves when championship games are in the mix (the story of their past 75 years), they weren't good enough to win the championship.
Dublin's tails went up during the championship, largely because a group of seasoned winners one-by-one regained their hunger and their match fitness. At which point the championship outcome was all but a foregone conclusion.
——-
How this seems to have been interpreted by managers of D1 and top D2 teams, apart from Dublin:
Dublin are back and they're going to win the All Ireland again whether we like it or not, so let's spend the entire season complaining about the schedule, fighting phoney wars, and blaming everything but ourselves until our inevitable exit. Where's my envelope?
——
So wouldn't it be better for the players and counties to win a league title en route to their inevitable championship exits?
Or am I going soft in the head?