INLA - Undefeated Army?

Started by sid waddell, May 15, 2021, 12:29:01 PM

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trueblue1234

Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 11:16:44 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:47:56 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:45:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
His full descent into Angelo is now complete. You are all hypocrites, hypocrites I tell you and I am going to show up every last one of you. It's the same as Angelo on the corona virus thread. Topic irrelevant tbh.
To be fair I think they were a bit annoyed when Angelo of all posters showed them up on the old Ira v new ira threads. It's triggered a few of them.
He didn't though, and the proof of that is in how the pro-Provo posters have resorted to nothing except furious name calling lately

The pro-Provo posters have clearly lost their argument

That's not to say the old IRA were very nice people - they weren't - and I don't think they're particularly worthy of celebration - but they were not mindless, they did not carry on for 27 years in a futile, mindless campaign, they had a plan to win, did win, and had much more regard for the lives of the general public who had to live through their campaign, a general public which largely supported them

So I think it's clear that the old IRA and the PIRA are very much not morally equivalent

Whereas the PIRA and the INLA are morally equivalent
I wonder who I was talking about when I said they were triggered. Maybe Angelo has his benefits.
Caliing somebody "triggered" is not an argument

It's an escape hatch used by somebody who has no argument

It's what right-wing internet trolls do
Don't worry. You don't need to be annoyed. His views are more or less in line with your own previous views. Another week or two and you'll prob flip back in line with him. An Angelo/ Sid alliance would be something to behold.
You're looking for an escape hatch again

Are you of the view that the PIRA were noble heroes and the INLA were scum?

Could you set out as you see it, why the PIRA were morally superior to the INLA?
You were unable to do that for the old Ira over the provos and it's really knocked you. How many pages of posts and Angelo was still running rings around ya.
You're resorting to his lowest common denominator tactics now

It's quite sad to see that happen

You just left out "RAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR" from your post there

This is sort of debating strategy children use!

Maybe it's in tribute to the children murdered by the PIRA?
And the innocent victims of the old Ira. Don't forget them too.
See again, you're resorting to crude reductionism

You're saying that all armed campaigns which killed any civilians, no matter the number, are exactly equivalent morally to each other

But that would be to say that the Khmer Rouge were equivalent to the ANC

Which would be a bit mental, wouldn't it

Your argument necessitates the absolute destruction of critical thinking - a bit like the Khmer Rouge actually!

The modus operandis of the PIRA and the INLA were the exact same however

And yet you refuse to compare them morally

Smacks of a poster who wants to hide the truth

No your right I agree there is innocent victims in all wars. Some targeted more innocents than others. And some disappeared many more than others as as well.
Yes and I think that's a crucial distinction as to why the PIRA could not be classed as a legitimate fighting force - because a key, primary modus operandi of theirs was the consistent targetting of totally unconnected civilians over the course of 27 years

They admit this themselves

As was the case with the INLA

I don't think this was the case at all in the War of Independence

Thanks for your opinion.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

sid waddell

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 16, 2021, 11:25:52 AM
So no innocent people died in the WOI? Righty O
That isn't the argument being made, only a fool would make that argument, and you know full well nobody argues that

The argument being made is that the PIRA consistently targetted civilians unconnected to the conflict as a key, primary modus operandi, as did the INLA

And the PIRA did it for a quarter of a century

The War of Independence IRA didn't do that

Therefore, whatever the moral failings of the old IRA, and only a fool would say the old IRA did not have moral failings, in the round the two campaigns are not morally comparable

There are a whole host of reasons, all of which involve critical thinking, to demonstrate why

But I suppose on this forum they will always be up against it when there is a considerable cohort of posters who are dogged and determined in their pursuit of crude reductionism at all costs

dec


tonto1888

Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:47:56 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:45:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
His full descent into Angelo is now complete. You are all hypocrites, hypocrites I tell you and I am going to show up every last one of you. It's the same as Angelo on the corona virus thread. Topic irrelevant tbh.
To be fair I think they were a bit annoyed when Angelo of all posters showed them up on the old Ira v new ira threads. It's triggered a few of them.
He didn't though, and the proof of that is in how the pro-Provo posters have resorted to nothing except furious name calling lately

The pro-Provo posters have clearly lost their argument

That's not to say the old IRA were very nice people - they weren't - and I don't think they're particularly worthy of celebration - but they were not mindless, they did not carry on for 27 years in a futile, mindless campaign, they had a plan to win, did win, and had much more regard for the lives of the general public who had to live through their campaign, a general public which largely supported them

So I think it's clear that the old IRA and the PIRA are very much not morally equivalent

Whereas the PIRA and the INLA are morally equivalent
I wonder who I was talking about when I said they were triggered. Maybe Angelo has his benefits.
Caliing somebody "triggered" is not an argument

It's an escape hatch used by somebody who has no argument

It's what right-wing internet trolls do
Don't worry. You don't need to be annoyed. His views are more or less in line with your own previous views. Another week or two and you'll prob flip back in line with him. An Angelo/ Sid alliance would be something to behold.
You're looking for an escape hatch again

Are you of the view that the PIRA were noble heroes and the INLA were scum?

Could you set out as you see it, why the PIRA were morally superior to the INLA?
You were unable to do that for the old Ira over the provos and it's really knocked you. How many pages of posts and Angelo was still running rings around ya.
You're resorting to his lowest common denominator tactics now

It's quite sad to see that happen

You just left out "RAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR" from your post there

This is sort of debating strategy children use!

Maybe it's in tribute to the children murdered by the PIRA?
And the innocent victims of the old Ira. Don't forget them too.
See again, you're resorting to crude reductionism

You're saying that all armed campaigns which killed any civilians, no matter the number, are exactly equivalent morally to each other

But that would be to say that the Khmer Rouge were equivalent to the ANC

Which would be a bit mental, wouldn't it

Your argument necessitates the absolute destruction of critical thinking - a bit like the Khmer Rouge actually!

The modus operandis of the PIRA and the INLA were the exact same however

And yet you refuse to compare them morally

Smacks of a poster who wants to hide the truth

The Old IRA didn't win. They didn't achieve their goal. A free Ireland.

Your point about saying the Khmer Rouge and the ANC is daft.

As for your question, I have no idea why. Could simply be down to the Wolfe Tones, i can't think of any INLA songs they have

Eire90

what about the historic ira

sid waddell

Quote from: tonto1888 on May 16, 2021, 01:53:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:11:59 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 11:07:04 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 11:04:08 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:47:56 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:45:40 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 16, 2021, 10:43:39 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 16, 2021, 10:36:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
His full descent into Angelo is now complete. You are all hypocrites, hypocrites I tell you and I am going to show up every last one of you. It's the same as Angelo on the corona virus thread. Topic irrelevant tbh.
To be fair I think they were a bit annoyed when Angelo of all posters showed them up on the old Ira v new ira threads. It's triggered a few of them.
He didn't though, and the proof of that is in how the pro-Provo posters have resorted to nothing except furious name calling lately

The pro-Provo posters have clearly lost their argument

That's not to say the old IRA were very nice people - they weren't - and I don't think they're particularly worthy of celebration - but they were not mindless, they did not carry on for 27 years in a futile, mindless campaign, they had a plan to win, did win, and had much more regard for the lives of the general public who had to live through their campaign, a general public which largely supported them

So I think it's clear that the old IRA and the PIRA are very much not morally equivalent

Whereas the PIRA and the INLA are morally equivalent
I wonder who I was talking about when I said they were triggered. Maybe Angelo has his benefits.
Caliing somebody "triggered" is not an argument

It's an escape hatch used by somebody who has no argument

It's what right-wing internet trolls do
Don't worry. You don't need to be annoyed. His views are more or less in line with your own previous views. Another week or two and you'll prob flip back in line with him. An Angelo/ Sid alliance would be something to behold.
You're looking for an escape hatch again

Are you of the view that the PIRA were noble heroes and the INLA were scum?

Could you set out as you see it, why the PIRA were morally superior to the INLA?
You were unable to do that for the old Ira over the provos and it's really knocked you. How many pages of posts and Angelo was still running rings around ya.
You're resorting to his lowest common denominator tactics now

It's quite sad to see that happen

You just left out "RAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR" from your post there

This is sort of debating strategy children use!

Maybe it's in tribute to the children murdered by the PIRA?
And the innocent victims of the old Ira. Don't forget them too.
See again, you're resorting to crude reductionism

You're saying that all armed campaigns which killed any civilians, no matter the number, are exactly equivalent morally to each other

But that would be to say that the Khmer Rouge were equivalent to the ANC

Which would be a bit mental, wouldn't it

Your argument necessitates the absolute destruction of critical thinking - a bit like the Khmer Rouge actually!

The modus operandis of the PIRA and the INLA were the exact same however

And yet you refuse to compare them morally

Smacks of a poster who wants to hide the truth

The Old IRA didn't win. They didn't achieve their goal. A free Ireland.

Your point about saying the Khmer Rouge and the ANC is daft.

As for your question, I have no idea why. Could simply be down to the Wolfe Tones, i can't think of any INLA songs they have

I live in a free Ireland that came into being because of the old IRA

So you're wrong in a basic factual sense

Germany is much smaller now than it used to be yet it would obviously be ludicrous to say a free Germany does not exist

Similarly it's ludicrous to say a free Ireland does not exist

It's not enough to say a point is "daft" - you have to say why

Northern Ireland is a free society by the way

I don't think it's a particularly successful society but it is a free society

tonto1888

Typical free state response. I'm free, sod the rest.

Time for ignore

sid waddell

#37
Quote from: tonto1888 on May 16, 2021, 03:17:23 PM
Typical free state response. I'm free, sod the rest.

Time for ignore
Just because you do not live in a free Ireland does not mean a free Ireland does not exist

What you are saying is that unless a state exists to the maximum possible boundary of what it could historically be considered to have any sort of claim over, that that state does not exist

That's why I brought up Germany, because Germany used to be much bigger than it is now - I don't think it would be a good idea for there to be a Greater Germany movement which seeks to get back East Prussia, now Kaliningrad, or parts of Poland, such as Wroclaw, formerly Breslau

Armenia would be another example, historic Armenia was much bigger than the current day state of Armenia

Serbia is another example

Salonika in Greece used to be Turkish, should Turkey say "there is no such thing as Turkey until Salonika is reconquered"?

I don't think that would be a good idea

Even historic Israel was bigger than current day Israel

The attitude that says modern day Israel must control everything from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan is the same attitude that says the state of Ireland has an inherent right to own the six counties

The reality is that there are many competing historical claims over pieces of land worldwide, and some will inevitably be disappointed

The important thing is that those of the ethnicity or nationality which does not own these disputed pieces of land are treated as any other citizens would be

That's what NI should focus on, building a good society for all, and let the cards fall where they may in any putative border poll 15-20 years down the line


charlieTully

They took out Billy Wright so not all bad.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: charlieTully on May 16, 2021, 04:03:44 PM
They took out Billy Wright so not all bad.

They loved a bloody internal feud every so often
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

johnnycool

Quote from: imtommygunn on May 16, 2021, 10:27:40 AM
His full descent into Angelo is now complete. You are all hypocrites, hypocrites I tell you and I am going to show up every last one of you. It's the same as Angelo on the corona virus thread. Topic irrelevant tbh.

It's certainly the same MO.

bombardment of nonsense on anyone with a contradictory viewpoint to the stage where they give up in exasperation and then claim some sort of internet victory and feel good about yourself.

Dag Dog

The INLA would be the hipsters' choice.

MoChara

Quote from: Dag Dog on May 17, 2021, 01:14:30 PM
The INLA would be the hipsters' choice.

Rollie fags, unpronounceable bottles of vino coupled with strong moustachios

smelmoth

2 points

1. There is no doubt that Sid has created the thread to stir the pot.
2. Irrespective of who created the thread or what their motivation there are those who do apply a double standard between PIRA and INLA. That does deserve to be exposed.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: smelmoth on May 17, 2021, 03:38:36 PM
2 points

1. There is no doubt that Sid has created the thread to stir the pot.
2. Irrespective of who created the thread or what their motivation there are those who do apply a double standard between PIRA and INLA. That does deserve to be exposed.

I've never seen a post on here (maybe you can highlight it) that says PIRA good INLA bad.

As far as I'm aware they splintered into different bodies and their goals were the same.

How they went about their jobs is up for discussion but for me a campaign to kill someone in guerrilla warfare, be it 25 years ago or 100 years ago is no different.   
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea