Should Leo stand down until investigation complete?

[Itchy]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

[weareros]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

My own opinion on this is when it goes to DPP, and if DPP thinks there is a case to answer, then he should step aside. But I think it's a bit extreme to ask a politician to step aside as Gardai investigate a complaint. Gardai can only investigate and send to DPP. They won't even be making a recommendation on whether charges need to be filed, just presenting the facts. The DPP will decide. Anyone who is following can see that there's no love lost between Tainiste and the gentleman who made the complaint. Likewise I think Village Magazine's reading of Official Secrets Act is flawed. I know Angelo disagrees. But this is the magazine that gave us Gemma O'Doherty, so I won't be taking their word as gospel either. The pols and commentators need to let Gardai investigate. I think what they will find is that he was within his rights to share. The pay contract was impacting all GPs, not just the GPs in the IMO Union. The IMO had already announced the package before he met the other Union President. His judgement was poor not to talk to Harris first. I think the bigger crime is why taxpayers money to a Union that was able to give their CEO a 9 million retirement package was an "Official Secret" in the first place, in particular when the pay was impacting all GPs. We'll see.

[GAABoardMod5]

As suggested, let's keep all Sinn Fein comments on the "Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know." thread.

Posts not complying will be pulled.

[Angelo]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

My own opinion on this is when it goes to DPP, and if DPP thinks there is a case to answer, then he should step aside. But I think it's a bit extreme to ask a politician to step aside as Gardai investigate a complaint. Gardai can only investigate and send to DPP. They won't even be making a recommendation on whether charges need to be filed, just presenting the facts. The DPP will decide. Anyone who is following can see that there's no love lost between Tainiste and the gentleman who made the complaint. Likewise I think Village Magazine's reading of Official Secrets Act is flawed. I know Angelo disagrees. But this is the magazine that gave us Gemma O'Doherty, so I won't be taking their word as gospel either. The pols and commentators need to let Gardai investigate. I think what they will find is that he was within his rights to share. The pay contract was impacting all GPs, not just the GPs in the IMO Union. The IMO had already announced the package before he met the other Union President. His judgement was poor not to talk to Harris first. I think the bigger crime is why taxpayers money to a Union that was able to give their CEO a 9 million retirement package was an "Official Secret" in the first place, in particular when the pay was impacting all GPs. We'll see.

Village magazine's line is backed up by a senior counsel though. Their editor is lawyer as far as I know. So I think they are probably in a much stronger position to argue that case than you or I.

Poor judgement doesn't come to it. The Minister for Health couldn't even get his hand on the contract at the time Varadkar was leaking, the contract had not been agreed, Varadkar clarified in his messages to his friend that it was subject to amendment and not to take it as gospel, watermarked at the front was "confidential, not for circulation".

All those matters would seem to contradict your viewpoint.

Then there is the matter of Varadkar deleting the Whatsapp messages he was obliged to keep under FOI purposes. What person deletes Whatsapp messages and conversations? What kind of motivation would you need to do so for that - particularly when there was a legal requirement for him to keep them in line with his role.

[straightred]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Why should anybody forget about Sinn Fein now when any time the PIRA are brought up you bring up the old IRA?

Shinners created these rules

Don't complain about the rules - you created them

SF and SF supporters like you have zero moral authority to complain about the misdeeds of any other politicians because SF for years has been about corruption and murder

Whatever has gone on in FF and FG for decades, SF are far, far worse

Because this issue has nothing to do with SF and despite some us of trying to redirect you and others to the 520 page SF bashing thread you and your buddies just keep coming back.

SF aren't speaking for me when they are calling for his resignation. I'm speaking for myself any only for myself when I say that he should step aside. I'm not asking for him to give up his seat or anything like that but rather I'm simply saying that while he is under criminal investigation for leaking a document (which he admits leaking) then it is completely inappropriate for him to hold the office of Tainiste or any other Ministerial job.

The thread title is "Should  Leo stand down until investigation complete?"
In a word... Yes

It's a fair enough opinion to believe Varadkar should stand aside, taken alone on the merits of the case

The point is, it's would be a totally ludicrous opinion for any SF supporter to believe Varadkar should stand aside after denying that O'Neill and Adams should stand aside when they were under criminal investigation

And that's the view SF supporters here seem to hold

So that total hypocrisy naturally becomes a focus of discussion

SF supporters continually defend SF by invoking things which are nothing to do with SF

They are the masters of illegitimate and trolling whataboutery

But bringing up Adams and O'Neill's refusal to stand aside when under criminal investigation is perfectly legitimate - it is to demonstrate that SF have no moral standards

The thing is that the more SF whine about this, the more they are actually driving public sympathy for Varadkar from a place where he might not have had it

SF's interventions very much help Varadkar in the court of public opinion

Nothing more was needed after the first sentence

That would be the case if any party or political group made the claim and not SF. The very fact it was SF is what makes the rest of the post relevant

Oh FFS. How many times has this to be explained. You just can't help yourself.

This has nothing to do with SF. This is Chay Bowe's story which the Village Magazine ran with. SF or (indeed any other political party) had nothing to do with it so I've no idea what you mean by "made the claim". SF have the same relevance to the story as Paul Murphy or anyone in the Social Democrats or the Labour party has, i.e. none.

I think i'll bow out. Reminder to self: never try to moderate on a forum again

Mary Lou was on national radio this morning demanding Leo resign. I've no idea if Paul Murphy, the Social Democrats  or the Labour Party think he should resign as I didn't hear or see anything from them in the media in recent days.

Now if you think Mary Lou went on national radio specifically to say Leo should resign in her own personal capacity and not as the leader of SF you can't expect anyone to believe that.

I suppose one way SF can deny accusations of hypocrisy is to deny all knowledge or claim it never happened.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-needs-go-mary-23724545

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/mary-lou-mcdonald-calls-for-leo-varadkar-to-resign

And this thread started long before Mary Lou went on the radio so you'll have to try harder to twist the story. For what its worth I didn't support SFs vote of no confidence in November but I did think that Varadkar should have stepped aside back then. If anything the case for that is now stronger given that this has been upgraded to a criminal investigation. That SF and other parties are seeking to gain political gain is irrelevant. That's was opposition do and frankly its what they are expected to do so i'm not interested in that noise.

The self proclaimed party of law and order have been found badly wanting. Back after the banking crisis they were promising to clean irish politics up. Then they got behind the wheel and it didn't take long for them to become as bad as FF ever were.

[dublin7]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

I don't think Leo should stand aside. If the DPP decide to press charges then that's a different story. I also don't think Michelle O'Neill should have stood down either.

It's the total hypocrisy of SF who backed MON in the North but are demanding Leo resign that I find infuriating. You can understand that can't you?

[Itchy]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

I don't think Leo should stand aside. If the DPP decide to press charges then that's a different story. I also don't think Michelle O'Neill should have stood down either.

It's the total hypocrisy of SF who backed MON in the North but are demanding Leo resign that I find infuriating. You can understand that can't you?

Yes I can understand it but it is tiresome when every thread resorts to what SF did at some earlier time.

[straightred]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

I don't think Leo should stand aside. If the DPP decide to press charges then that's a different story. I also don't think Michelle O'Neill should have stood down either.

It's the total hypocrisy of SF who backed MON in the North but are demanding Leo resign that I find infuriating. You can understand that can't you?

There's a massive difference. Leo was caught red handed. Photos, text messages the lot. The timeline doesn't work. His excuse doesn't work. The dogs in the street know his excuse his rubbish but for whatever reason that I can't honestly understand he is allowed to stay in his position. You don't need to look at SF to draw comparisons. Francis Fitzgerald was forced out of Justice for a lot less. Alan Shatter, another FG minsters was forced out for less (admittedly that happened under Kenny). There was no Garda investigation into those never mind a DPP intervention. FF lost 2 agriculture ministers last year for less. Again no need to wait for the DPP.

By his own admission Leo leaked a confidential document. Why is he not held to the same standards as all the others listed above ?

[Angelo]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

And a coverup.

The one thing that was notable in the vote of confidence in Varadkar was that FG turned the whole thing into a mud slinging contest at SF. This is the kind of political discourse (or lack of) FG engage in.

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

I don't think Leo should stand aside. If the DPP decide to press charges then that's a different story. I also don't think Michelle O'Neill should have stood down either.

It's the total hypocrisy of SF who backed MON in the North but are demanding Leo resign that I find infuriating. You can understand that can't you?

There's a massive difference. Leo was caught red handed. Photos, text messages the lot. The timeline doesn't work. His excuse doesn't work. The dogs in the street know his excuse his rubbish but for whatever reason that I can't honestly understand he is allowed to stay in his position. You don't need to look at SF to draw comparisons. Francis Fitzgerald was forced out of Justice for a lot less. Alan Shatter, another FG minsters was forced out for less (admittedly that happened under Kenny). There was no Garda investigation into those never mind a DPP intervention. FF lost 2 agriculture ministers last year for less. Again no need to wait for the DPP.

By his own admission Leo leaked a confidential document. Why is he not held to the same standards as all the others listed above ?

[dublin7]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

I don't think Leo should stand aside. If the DPP decide to press charges then that's a different story. I also don't think Michelle O'Neill should have stood down either.

It's the total hypocrisy of SF who backed MON in the North but are demanding Leo resign that I find infuriating. You can understand that can't you?

There's a massive difference. Leo was caught red handed. Photos, text messages the lot. The timeline doesn't work. His excuse doesn't work. The dogs in the street know his excuse his rubbish but for whatever reason that I can't honestly understand he is allowed to stay in his position. You don't need to look at SF to draw comparisons. Francis Fitzgerald was forced out of Justice for a lot less. Alan Shatter, another FG minsters was forced out for less (admittedly that happened under Kenny). There was no Garda investigation into those never mind a DPP intervention. FF lost 2 agriculture ministers last year for less. Again no need to wait for the DPP.

By his own admission Leo leaked a confidential document. Why is he not held to the same standards as all the others listed above ?

Clearly SF supporters see things differently. I think what SF did in the North around the height of Covid was a serious threat to peoples health and well being and far worse. It'll probably work out in Leos favor ironically the SF calls for him to resign as the DPP are unlikely to go ahead with any prosecution based on the difficulty of proving the case.

[sid waddell]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Why should anybody forget about Sinn Fein now when any time the PIRA are brought up you bring up the old IRA?

Shinners created these rules

Don't complain about the rules - you created them

SF and SF supporters like you have zero moral authority to complain about the misdeeds of any other politicians because SF for years has been about corruption and murder

Whatever has gone on in FF and FG for decades, SF are far, far worse

Because this issue has nothing to do with SF and despite some us of trying to redirect you and others to the 520 page SF bashing thread you and your buddies just keep coming back.

SF aren't speaking for me when they are calling for his resignation. I'm speaking for myself any only for myself when I say that he should step aside. I'm not asking for him to give up his seat or anything like that but rather I'm simply saying that while he is under criminal investigation for leaking a document (which he admits leaking) then it is completely inappropriate for him to hold the office of Tainiste or any other Ministerial job.

The thread title is "Should  Leo stand down until investigation complete?"
In a word... Yes

It's a fair enough opinion to believe Varadkar should stand aside, taken alone on the merits of the case

The point is, it's would be a totally ludicrous opinion for any SF supporter to believe Varadkar should stand aside after denying that O'Neill and Adams should stand aside when they were under criminal investigation

And that's the view SF supporters here seem to hold

So that total hypocrisy naturally becomes a focus of discussion

SF supporters continually defend SF by invoking things which are nothing to do with SF

They are the masters of illegitimate and trolling whataboutery

But bringing up Adams and O'Neill's refusal to stand aside when under criminal investigation is perfectly legitimate - it is to demonstrate that SF have no moral standards

The thing is that the more SF whine about this, the more they are actually driving public sympathy for Varadkar from a place where he might not have had it

SF's interventions very much help Varadkar in the court of public opinion

Nothing more was needed after the first sentence

That would be the case if any party or political group made the claim and not SF. The very fact it was SF is what makes the rest of the post relevant

Oh FFS. How many times has this to be explained. You just can't help yourself.

This has nothing to do with SF. This is Chay Bowe's story which the Village Magazine ran with. SF or (indeed any other political party) had nothing to do with it so I've no idea what you mean by "made the claim". SF have the same relevance to the story as Paul Murphy or anyone in the Social Democrats or the Labour party has, i.e. none.

I think i'll bow out. Reminder to self: never try to moderate on a forum again

Mary Lou was on national radio this morning demanding Leo resign. I've no idea if Paul Murphy, the Social Democrats  or the Labour Party think he should resign as I didn't hear or see anything from them in the media in recent days.

Now if you think Mary Lou went on national radio specifically to say Leo should resign in her own personal capacity and not as the leader of SF you can't expect anyone to believe that.

I suppose one way SF can deny accusations of hypocrisy is to deny all knowledge or claim it never happened.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-needs-go-mary-23724545

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/mary-lou-mcdonald-calls-for-leo-varadkar-to-resign

And this thread started long before Mary Lou went on the radio so you'll have to try harder to twist the story. For what its worth I didn't support SFs vote of no confidence in November but I did think that Varadkar should have stepped aside back then. If anything the case for that is now stronger given that this has been upgraded to a criminal investigation. That SF and other parties are seeking to gain political gain is irrelevant. That's was opposition do and frankly its what they are expected to do so i'm not interested in that noise.

The self proclaimed party of law and order have been found badly wanting. Back after the banking crisis they were promising to clean irish politics up. Then they got behind the wheel and it didn't take long for them to become as bad as FF ever were.

Actually the Irish governments over the last decade are widely looked upon abroad as a rare beacon of common sense in a sea of populist lunacy internationally

Very far from perfect for sure but up until the pandemic, under any reasonable analysis you'd have to say they did a pretty decent job overall of stabilising the country and giving it a decent platform to thrive, while helping to advance major reform of social policy

And I've never voted FG in me life, and never will

Meanwhile Sinn Fein supporters are on here literally boasting about the party trying to run Northern Ireland and its society into the ground

Given the calibre of poster who supports Sinn Fein here, you'd have to say NI has the government it deserves

The mindset of the SF supporter is that they genuinely believe that they could waltz into the Dail in the morning and fixing everything would be a piece of cake

Reminds me of Homer Simpson running for sanitation commissioner

[weareros]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

My own opinion on this is when it goes to DPP, and if DPP thinks there is a case to answer, then he should step aside. But I think it's a bit extreme to ask a politician to step aside as Gardai investigate a complaint. Gardai can only investigate and send to DPP. They won't even be making a recommendation on whether charges need to be filed, just presenting the facts. The DPP will decide. Anyone who is following can see that there's no love lost between Tainiste and the gentleman who made the complaint. Likewise I think Village Magazine's reading of Official Secrets Act is flawed. I know Angelo disagrees. But this is the magazine that gave us Gemma O'Doherty, so I won't be taking their word as gospel either. The pols and commentators need to let Gardai investigate. I think what they will find is that he was within his rights to share. The pay contract was impacting all GPs, not just the GPs in the IMO Union. The IMO had already announced the package before he met the other Union President. His judgement was poor not to talk to Harris first. I think the bigger crime is why taxpayers money to a Union that was able to give their CEO a 9 million retirement package was an "Official Secret" in the first place, in particular when the pay was impacting all GPs. We'll see.

Village magazine's line is backed up by a senior counsel though.

I still have not been able to make sense of the solicitors argument. And I hate to point out that I think he was a SF candidate, because I don't want to be accused of the SF word. He seems to be saying that if official information worked on by a public official is confidential (eg the draft pay agreement), when it gets into the hands of a member of government (eg Leo), it remains confidential, and thus Leo is not exempt from OSA. That seems a good argument except for one fact - a public official is not authorised to share confidential information unless authorised by a Minister (eg Member of Govt) or State Authority (eg Attorney General); a Minister (ie a member of Government per Act), is authorised. So the official information is passing into the hands of someone who is not authorised, to the hands of someone who is authorised. The Village solicitor is making the claim that it carries its confidentiality as it passes hands from a public official to a Minister. Is that what he is saying? If so, I think it's interesting logic but flawed logic.

[straightred]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Why should anybody forget about Sinn Fein now when any time the PIRA are brought up you bring up the old IRA?

Shinners created these rules

Don't complain about the rules - you created them

SF and SF supporters like you have zero moral authority to complain about the misdeeds of any other politicians because SF for years has been about corruption and murder

Whatever has gone on in FF and FG for decades, SF are far, far worse

Because this issue has nothing to do with SF and despite some us of trying to redirect you and others to the 520 page SF bashing thread you and your buddies just keep coming back.

SF aren't speaking for me when they are calling for his resignation. I'm speaking for myself any only for myself when I say that he should step aside. I'm not asking for him to give up his seat or anything like that but rather I'm simply saying that while he is under criminal investigation for leaking a document (which he admits leaking) then it is completely inappropriate for him to hold the office of Tainiste or any other Ministerial job.

The thread title is "Should  Leo stand down until investigation complete?"
In a word... Yes

It's a fair enough opinion to believe Varadkar should stand aside, taken alone on the merits of the case

The point is, it's would be a totally ludicrous opinion for any SF supporter to believe Varadkar should stand aside after denying that O'Neill and Adams should stand aside when they were under criminal investigation

And that's the view SF supporters here seem to hold

So that total hypocrisy naturally becomes a focus of discussion

SF supporters continually defend SF by invoking things which are nothing to do with SF

They are the masters of illegitimate and trolling whataboutery

But bringing up Adams and O'Neill's refusal to stand aside when under criminal investigation is perfectly legitimate - it is to demonstrate that SF have no moral standards

The thing is that the more SF whine about this, the more they are actually driving public sympathy for Varadkar from a place where he might not have had it

SF's interventions very much help Varadkar in the court of public opinion

Nothing more was needed after the first sentence

That would be the case if any party or political group made the claim and not SF. The very fact it was SF is what makes the rest of the post relevant

Oh FFS. How many times has this to be explained. You just can't help yourself.

This has nothing to do with SF. This is Chay Bowe's story which the Village Magazine ran with. SF or (indeed any other political party) had nothing to do with it so I've no idea what you mean by "made the claim". SF have the same relevance to the story as Paul Murphy or anyone in the Social Democrats or the Labour party has, i.e. none.

I think i'll bow out. Reminder to self: never try to moderate on a forum again

Mary Lou was on national radio this morning demanding Leo resign. I've no idea if Paul Murphy, the Social Democrats  or the Labour Party think he should resign as I didn't hear or see anything from them in the media in recent days.

Now if you think Mary Lou went on national radio specifically to say Leo should resign in her own personal capacity and not as the leader of SF you can't expect anyone to believe that.

I suppose one way SF can deny accusations of hypocrisy is to deny all knowledge or claim it never happened.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-needs-go-mary-23724545

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/mary-lou-mcdonald-calls-for-leo-varadkar-to-resign

And this thread started long before Mary Lou went on the radio so you'll have to try harder to twist the story. For what its worth I didn't support SFs vote of no confidence in November but I did think that Varadkar should have stepped aside back then. If anything the case for that is now stronger given that this has been upgraded to a criminal investigation. That SF and other parties are seeking to gain political gain is irrelevant. That's was opposition do and frankly its what they are expected to do so i'm not interested in that noise.

The self proclaimed party of law and order have been found badly wanting. Back after the banking crisis they were promising to clean irish politics up. Then they got behind the wheel and it didn't take long for them to become as bad as FF ever were.

Actually the Irish governments over the last decade are widely looked upon abroad as a rare beacon of common sense in a sea of populist lunacy internationally

Very far from perfect for sure but up until the pandemic, under any reasonable analysis you'd have to say they did a pretty decent job overall of stabilising the country and giving it a decent platform to thrive, while helping to advance major reform of social policy

And I've never voted FG in me life, and never will

Meanwhile Sinn Fein supporters are on here literally boasting about the party trying to run Northern Ireland and its society into the ground

Given the calibre of poster who supports Sinn Fein here, you'd have to say NI has the government it deserves

The mindset of the SF supporter is that they genuinely believe that they could waltz into the Dail in the morning and fixing everything would be a piece of cake

Reminds me of Homer Simpson running for sanitation commissioner

And i probably wont be popular for admitting it but I have voted FG on more than one occasion. I wouldn't dream of voting for them under Varadkar though as in my opinion he has set them back years with his populist nonsense, constant undermining of FF and social media antics. Coveney, as shown in his strong work on Brexit, would have been a much better choice but the ship has probably sailed for him now.

[straightred]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Michelle O'Neill didn't stand aside when under investigation and in fact refused to, so why should Leo?

It wasnt addressed to you  but even so you tried to answer but couldn't get by the first line. Never mind.

My own opinion on this is when it goes to DPP, and if DPP thinks there is a case to answer, then he should step aside. But I think it's a bit extreme to ask a politician to step aside as Gardai investigate a complaint. Gardai can only investigate and send to DPP. They won't even be making a recommendation on whether charges need to be filed, just presenting the facts. The DPP will decide. Anyone who is following can see that there's no love lost between Tainiste and the gentleman who made the complaint. Likewise I think Village Magazine's reading of Official Secrets Act is flawed. I know Angelo disagrees. But this is the magazine that gave us Gemma O'Doherty, so I won't be taking their word as gospel either. The pols and commentators need to let Gardai investigate. I think what they will find is that he was within his rights to share. The pay contract was impacting all GPs, not just the GPs in the IMO Union. The IMO had already announced the package before he met the other Union President. His judgement was poor not to talk to Harris first. I think the bigger crime is why taxpayers money to a Union that was able to give their CEO a 9 million retirement package was an "Official Secret" in the first place, in particular when the pay was impacting all GPs. We'll see.

Village magazine's line is backed up by a senior counsel though.

I still have not been able to make sense of the solicitors argument. And I hate to point out that I think he was a SF candidate, because I don't want to be accused of the SF word. He seems to be saying that if official information worked on by a public official is confidential (eg the draft pay agreement), when it gets into the hands of a member of government (eg Leo), it remains confidential, and thus Leo is not exempt from OSA. That seems a good argument except for one fact - a public official is not authorised to share confidential information unless authorised by a Minister (eg Member of Govt) or State Authority (eg Attorney General); a Minister (ie a member of Government per Act), is authorised. So the official information is passing into the hands of someone who is not authorised, to the hands of someone who is authorised. The Village solicitor is making the claim that it carries its confidentiality as it passes hands from a public official to a Minister. Is that what he is saying? If so, I think it's interesting logic but flawed logic.

Surely you can't authorise yourself ?

[sid waddell]

Trailer - try and forget about Sinn Fein for a minute

do YOU think that the Tanaiste should be allowed work in his role when he is under Garda investigation for leaking confidential information to his friend?

Why should anybody forget about Sinn Fein now when any time the PIRA are brought up you bring up the old IRA?

Shinners created these rules

Don't complain about the rules - you created them

SF and SF supporters like you have zero moral authority to complain about the misdeeds of any other politicians because SF for years has been about corruption and murder

Whatever has gone on in FF and FG for decades, SF are far, far worse

Because this issue has nothing to do with SF and despite some us of trying to redirect you and others to the 520 page SF bashing thread you and your buddies just keep coming back.

SF aren't speaking for me when they are calling for his resignation. I'm speaking for myself any only for myself when I say that he should step aside. I'm not asking for him to give up his seat or anything like that but rather I'm simply saying that while he is under criminal investigation for leaking a document (which he admits leaking) then it is completely inappropriate for him to hold the office of Tainiste or any other Ministerial job.

The thread title is "Should  Leo stand down until investigation complete?"
In a word... Yes

It's a fair enough opinion to believe Varadkar should stand aside, taken alone on the merits of the case

The point is, it's would be a totally ludicrous opinion for any SF supporter to believe Varadkar should stand aside after denying that O'Neill and Adams should stand aside when they were under criminal investigation

And that's the view SF supporters here seem to hold

So that total hypocrisy naturally becomes a focus of discussion

SF supporters continually defend SF by invoking things which are nothing to do with SF

They are the masters of illegitimate and trolling whataboutery

But bringing up Adams and O'Neill's refusal to stand aside when under criminal investigation is perfectly legitimate - it is to demonstrate that SF have no moral standards

The thing is that the more SF whine about this, the more they are actually driving public sympathy for Varadkar from a place where he might not have had it

SF's interventions very much help Varadkar in the court of public opinion

Nothing more was needed after the first sentence

That would be the case if any party or political group made the claim and not SF. The very fact it was SF is what makes the rest of the post relevant

Oh FFS. How many times has this to be explained. You just can't help yourself.

This has nothing to do with SF. This is Chay Bowe's story which the Village Magazine ran with. SF or (indeed any other political party) had nothing to do with it so I've no idea what you mean by "made the claim". SF have the same relevance to the story as Paul Murphy or anyone in the Social Democrats or the Labour party has, i.e. none.

I think i'll bow out. Reminder to self: never try to moderate on a forum again

Mary Lou was on national radio this morning demanding Leo resign. I've no idea if Paul Murphy, the Social Democrats  or the Labour Party think he should resign as I didn't hear or see anything from them in the media in recent days.

Now if you think Mary Lou went on national radio specifically to say Leo should resign in her own personal capacity and not as the leader of SF you can't expect anyone to believe that.

I suppose one way SF can deny accusations of hypocrisy is to deny all knowledge or claim it never happened.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/leo-varadkar-needs-go-mary-23724545

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/mary-lou-mcdonald-calls-for-leo-varadkar-to-resign

And this thread started long before Mary Lou went on the radio so you'll have to try harder to twist the story. For what its worth I didn't support SFs vote of no confidence in November but I did think that Varadkar should have stepped aside back then. If anything the case for that is now stronger given that this has been upgraded to a criminal investigation. That SF and other parties are seeking to gain political gain is irrelevant. That's was opposition do and frankly its what they are expected to do so i'm not interested in that noise.

The self proclaimed party of law and order have been found badly wanting. Back after the banking crisis they were promising to clean irish politics up. Then they got behind the wheel and it didn't take long for them to become as bad as FF ever were.

Actually the Irish governments over the last decade are widely looked upon abroad as a rare beacon of common sense in a sea of populist lunacy internationally

Very far from perfect for sure but up until the pandemic, under any reasonable analysis you'd have to say they did a pretty decent job overall of stabilising the country and giving it a decent platform to thrive, while helping to advance major reform of social policy

And I've never voted FG in me life, and never will

Meanwhile Sinn Fein supporters are on here literally boasting about the party trying to run Northern Ireland and its society into the ground

Given the calibre of poster who supports Sinn Fein here, you'd have to say NI has the government it deserves

The mindset of the SF supporter is that they genuinely believe that they could waltz into the Dail in the morning and fixing everything would be a piece of cake

Reminds me of Homer Simpson running for sanitation commissioner

And i probably wont be popular for admitting it but I have voted FG on more than one occasion. I wouldn't dream of voting for them under Varadkar though as in my opinion he has set them back years with his populist nonsense, constant undermining of FF and social media antics. Coveney, as shown in his strong work on Brexit, would have been a much better choice but the ship has probably sailed for him now.

Fine Gael/Labour has usually worked well enough - though I'd much prefer Labour/Fine Gael/Green

For a long time Vincent Browne talked about a Fine Gael/Sinn Fein coalition - part of me would like to see it happen - that would be a real case of senior hurling for Sinn Fein

As it is they're playing Junior D