A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.

Started by winghalfback, May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

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ashman

The big thing in this  will be what will happen When Sinn Fein enter government in the 26 counties.

If it goes well then a UI is a real probability .

If it goes badly then it will be put back by 50 years . 

armaghniac

Quote from: ashman on January 17, 2016, 10:59:13 PM
The big thing in this  will be what will happen When Sinn Fein enter government in the 26 counties.

If it goes well then a UI is a real probability .

If it goes badly then it will be put back by 50 years .

Sadly, Sinn Féin give nationalism a bad name. Let's hope they do not enter government in the 26 counties soon as their immature policies would do real damage.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

ashman

#347
SF policies are geared to a certain demographic ( like all parties) .  They are at a certain point in their "domestication cycle" in this state and have to play to that.

They will be a different animal if they get in to government because simply they will have to be .


armaghniac

No doubt SF can do U turn when in government. The "make someone else pay for everything" brigade might not be happy with this and they might not be in the next government.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

Quote from: armaghniac on January 18, 2016, 12:53:58 AM
No doubt SF can do U turn when in government. The "make someone else pay for everything" brigade might not be happy with this and they might not be in the next government.
It might take a few iterations. Politics is often about luck.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Applesisapples

I think it is fair to say that around the time of the Rising not many people on this Island would have supported either the rising or complete separation from Britain. British handling of the rising accelerated what was to become the war of independence and eventually partition. If NI is to be reunited with the ROI it is going to take some time and some persuasion, not least of those of us who would designate as broadly nationalist. It will take outside events to accelerate this. Tony waxes lyrical about the divergence between North and South in cultural terms and assertion I don't thinks stands up. But no one has mentioned the very real divergence between NI and "the rest of the UK". This is happening at all levels, culturally unionists are not British but a bit of a hybrid between Scots Gaelic culture, lowland scots and marching, politically and economically there is a widening gulf and as English and Scottish Nationalism rises where exactly will that leave NI? There a regional differences in culture throughout this Island that make all of us slightly different and from observation I would say that North Monaghan and South Armagh are culturally closer than North and South Armagh. But the basis is culturally Irish, unless you are an Ulster Unionist of course. The difficulty with Tony's NI identity is that the identity and culture of both communities would have to be reflected and as we can from the Somme/Rising debate that's a one way street.

general_lee

Quote from: Applesisapples on January 19, 2016, 09:49:06 AM
from observation I would say that North Monaghan and South Armagh are culturally closer than North and South Armagh. But the basis is culturally Irish, unless you are an Ulster Unionist of course.
Now now. There is still protestant land for sale in monaghan that wouldn't change hands into that of a Catholic. Big wealthy unionist farmers. A few small but staunch orange halls. Sounds just like north Armagh!

I get the point though. For instance someone like Kilcoo in County Down is a world apart from somewhere like Hillsborough which could be no more than 15 miles away.

T Fearon

I suppose you dont grow up in the likes of Portadown without absorbing a lot of unionist culture,particularly in the pre troubles era when there was no segregated housing etc.I remember attending 11th night bonfires,which I found exciting as a child,and orange parades were in those days non contentious and synonomous with summer, school holidays.Northern Irish culture and identity is of course hugely influenced by all that is good in Irish Nationalist and Ulster Unionist culture.

T Fearon

Apples I have repeatedly said we are culturally different from both the UK and 26 counties and also that the people of these areas recognise this and class us as fundamentally different.


armaghniac

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2016, 11:31:50 AM
Apples I have repeatedly said we are culturally different from both the UK and 26 counties and also that the people of these areas recognise this and class us as fundamentally different.

You have repeatedly said this, which doesn't make it so. Of course we are different from Britain, but please give us some examples of the cultural differences between the people of Middletown and Glaslough, or Cullaville and Inniskeen? If these differences are so great then some examples should be easy to find.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

imtommygunn

To prove your point you compared Killarney and the shankill road. That said it all...


general_lee

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2016, 11:28:37 AM
I suppose you dont grow up in the likes of Portadown without absorbing a lot of unionist culture,particularly in the pre troubles era when there was no segregated housing etc.I remember attending 11th night bonfires,which I found exciting as a child,and orange parades were in those days non contentious and synonomous with summer, school holidays.Northern Irish culture and identity is of course hugely influenced by all that is good in Irish Nationalist and Ulster Unionist culture.
My family are (were) from Portadown. They moved out before they were forced out. Family business was a sitting duck on the edge of the  nationalist part of town so it was a case of early retirement and bye bye Portadown. Probably a wise move, but sad that it had to happen.

T Fearon

#358
Strange when many businesses in town centre thrived,and continue to do to the present day.Winnies,Bennetts,Knox,McQuillan,Morgans etc.

Applesisapples

Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2016, 11:28:37 AM
I suppose you dont grow up in the likes of Portadown without absorbing a lot of unionist culture,particularly in the pre troubles era when there was no segregated housing etc.I remember attending 11th night bonfires,which I found exciting as a child,and orange parades were in those days non contentious and synonomous with summer, school holidays.Northern Irish culture and identity is of course hugely influenced by all that is good in Irish Nationalist and Ulster Unionist culture.
The Tunnel???? was always contentious, Garvaghy road became contentious as the population changed. Your blissful view of the 60's is not how I would have remembered them.