Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 233975 times)

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3375 on: April 27, 2021, 09:09:47 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

The Protocol is a huge move towards a United Ireland. It essentially keeps North & South in same customs union, while Britain moves another way. That's the beginning of an economic UI no matter what way you look at it. I've said before: some of these Loyalist agitators are not stupid, they see the way the wind is blowing. Other previous moves like all-island electricity grid further set the infrastructure in place. Still a long way to go, but even export/import results are starting to show greater economic integration on the island. Think it's more important for governments to this behind the scenes stuff, just like with Brexit when Irish government did begin to set-up alternative shipping routes to the Continent, rather than scrambling to do that now. They also had all EU partners agree that North gets automatic entry into EU in event of unification. That might sound obvious, but Scotland won't get automatic entry, as other EU countries still fret about secession. That kind of work rarely gets appreciated, but surely shows Irish government is thinking about unification and being prepared for it.

I would summarise the activity of the Irish government as;
a) Delivering on its GFA requirements and trying its best to ensure other do likewise
b) Trying to protect the 26 county economy. Which has a direct and largely positive impact on the NI economy
c) Trying to be good EU members

I see no evidence of planning for a UI

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3376 on: April 27, 2021, 09:22:42 PM »
I would summarise the activity of the Irish government as;
a) Delivering on its GFA requirements and trying its best to ensure other do likewise
b) Trying to protect the 26 county economy. Which has a direct and largely positive impact on the NI economy
c) Trying to be good EU members

I see no evidence of planning for a UI

However b) is a necessary, if not sufficient, condition for an UI. It is the one that takes longest to achieve. A plan for a UI can be brought about in 5 years, getting the economy sorted took decades. When a UI comes about it will not be because of Gerry Adams but because of T.K. Whittaker, it will not be the IRA that brought it about but the IDA.
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RadioGAAGAA

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3377 on: April 27, 2021, 09:24:29 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

The Protocol is a huge move towards a United Ireland. It essentially keeps North & South in same customs union, while Britain moves another way. That's the beginning of an economic UI no matter what way you look at it. I've said before: some of these Loyalist agitators are not stupid, they see the way the wind is blowing. Other previous moves like all-island electricity grid further set the infrastructure in place. Still a long way to go, but even export/import results are starting to show greater economic integration on the island. Think it's more important for governments to this behind the scenes stuff, just like with Brexit when Irish government did begin to set-up alternative shipping routes to the Continent, rather than scrambling to do that now. They also had all EU partners agree that North gets automatic entry into EU in event of unification. That might sound obvious, but Scotland won't get automatic entry, as other EU countries still fret about secession. That kind of work rarely gets appreciated, but surely shows Irish government is thinking about unification and being prepared for it.

Indeed. Fair play to Coveney et al - they've played the long game very f**kin well.

As opposed to Arlene and co who it seems couldn't think beyond the next soundbite on TV.
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6th sam

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3378 on: April 28, 2021, 03:45:04 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

The Protocol is a huge move towards a United Ireland. It essentially keeps North & South in same customs union, while Britain moves another way. That's the beginning of an economic UI no matter what way you look at it. I've said before: some of these Loyalist agitators are not stupid, they see the way the wind is blowing. Other previous moves like all-island electricity grid further set the infrastructure in place. Still a long way to go, but even export/import results are starting to show greater economic integration on the island. Think it's more important for governments to this behind the scenes stuff, just like with Brexit when Irish government did begin to set-up alternative shipping routes to the Continent, rather than scrambling to do that now. They also had all EU partners agree that North gets automatic entry into EU in event of unification. That might sound obvious, but Scotland won't get automatic entry, as other EU countries still fret about secession. That kind of work rarely gets appreciated, but surely shows Irish government is thinking about unification and being prepared for it.

Indeed. Fair play to Coveney et al - they've played the long game very f**kin well.

As opposed to Arlene and co who it seems couldn't think beyond the next soundbite on TV.

Coventry has been very impressive throughout and seems to have a genuine empathy with the North

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general_lee

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3381 on: May 01, 2021, 11:35:43 AM »
Irish Independent/Kantar poll.
Doesn't say anything about readers.
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PadraicHenryPearse

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3382 on: May 01, 2021, 12:12:54 PM »
I have no real affinity with the north, understanding of what its like in the north or want to pay more taxes for a united ireland but when it comes to voting i will 100% vote fot it.

Generations of Irish men and women have suffered, wanted, campaigned, fought, gave their lifes for a united Ireland for me to have a chance to vote for it and vote no as i might be a bit worse off financially is unconscionable.

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3383 on: May 01, 2021, 12:59:59 PM »
UI will be great economically long term, inevitable short term pain, we don't bring as much to the table as the south does. It has to and will happen

Itchy

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3384 on: May 01, 2021, 01:15:58 PM »
I have no real affinity with the north, understanding of what its like in the north or want to pay more taxes for a united ireland but when it comes to voting i will 100% vote fot it.

Generations of Irish men and women have suffered, wanted, campaigned, fought, gave their lifes for a united Ireland for me to have a chance to vote for it and vote no as i might be a bit worse off financially is unconscionable.

Even it made me poor id vote for it. However, I believe it will make iteland much stronger to be united.

general_lee

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3385 on: May 01, 2021, 01:29:19 PM »
Irish Independent/Kantar poll.
Doesn't say anything about readers.
No, but certainly the headlines they chose have been done so with their readership in mind.

“The findings emerge in a Belfast Telegraph poll, run in conjunction with Kantar“

Angelo

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3386 on: May 01, 2021, 01:41:20 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

Are you genuinely stupid or are you just pretending to be? If you seriously have not seen any attempt by Micheal Martin to pour cold water on any talk or discussions on a UI then you have been living under a rock for the past year.
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Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3387 on: May 01, 2021, 01:58:20 PM »
Irish Independent/Kantar poll.
Doesn't say anything about readers.
No, but certainly the headlines they chose have been done so with their readership in mind.

“The findings emerge in a Belfast Telegraph poll, run in conjunction with Kantar“
Why not discuss the results?
Or are you and rest of the SFers waiting for word from HQ?
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general_lee

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3388 on: May 01, 2021, 02:27:03 PM »
Irish Independent/Kantar poll.
Doesn't say anything about readers.
No, but certainly the headlines they chose have been done so with their readership in mind.

“The findings emerge in a Belfast Telegraph poll, run in conjunction with Kantar“
Why not discuss the results?
Or are you and rest of the SFers waiting for word from HQ?
Oh f**k up. Is that all you have?

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3389 on: May 01, 2021, 03:20:22 PM »
Touched a raw nerve did we? ;D
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