Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 233975 times)

johnnycool

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3360 on: April 19, 2021, 08:30:59 AM »
A United Ireland hinges on when and why "Sid" stopped being a PIRA supporter  ;D

If Sinn Fein really want a poll on a united Ireland why did Michelle O"Neill refuse to meet Boris Johnson recently?

I can understand why Boris refused to meet Mary Lou as she's not in government in the republic, but what was Michelle's excuse?

Because she wanted a meeting of substance, not just a walk on part in a Boris photoshoot.

Is that the official reason Boris wanted to meet Michelle and Arlene. How exactly do SF expect to convince Boris then to call a border poll? 

By not meeting Boris all SF did was give Arlene/DUP a chance to tell him whatever they want without question and made their chances of a border poll weaker.

There was no meeting on offer. It was a photo op for Boris at a vaccination centre. They wouldn't have had any real opportunity to talk.
Michelle was entirely right.

Rossfan

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johnnycool

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3362 on: April 21, 2021, 11:08:44 AM »
43/49 "up there"
51/27 "down here"

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/north-would-vote-against-united-ireland-but-republic-overwhelmingly-in-favour-poll-40338256.html

North would vote against a UI???

Of those surveyed, 49 per cent said they would vote to stay in the UK while 43pc would support a united Ireland. The remainder were undecided.

I'd say that's not entirely sure from the actual figures quoted.




pbat

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3363 on: April 21, 2021, 12:06:48 PM »
As Chris Hazard stated earlier 43% is a great base to start from, that's with no planning or laid out proposals as to what unification will look like. He also made the point that 1 year out from the Scottish Independence vote the vote to leave was in the low 20% and by the time of the election had moved to 44.7%.

Also the Southern numbers would be skewed as the rioting was going on when the polling was carried out, would be very shocked if the real number would not be mid 70's.

JPGJOHNNYG

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3364 on: April 21, 2021, 12:16:20 PM »
As Chris Hazard stated earlier 43% is a great base to start from, that's with no planning or laid out proposals as to what unification will look like. He also made the point that 1 year out from the Scottish Independence vote the vote to leave was in the low 20% and by the time of the election had moved to 44.7%.

Also the Southern numbers would be skewed as the rioting was going on when the polling was carried out, would be very shocked if the real number would not be mid 70's.

Taking out the dont knows
its 47 UI - 53 UK in NI
and 65 UI - 35 in ROI which looks more healthy


armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3365 on: April 21, 2021, 08:21:48 PM »
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 08:23:25 PM by armaghniac »
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

balladmaker

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3366 on: April 21, 2021, 10:48:23 PM »
I hope our unionist countrymen enjoy the festivities around NI's centenary year, it ain't looking good for a 125th anniversary with the irrefutable direction of travel.  I could be 70 before it happens .... never thought it was going to take so long, but please God I'm around to see it!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 10:51:03 PM by balladmaker »

Main Street

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3367 on: April 22, 2021, 12:43:52 AM »
https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1384617955200278529
Under 45s NI 50% for UI.
The charm of Orange/Unionist/Prod/Brit supremacy loses slivers of its (heavily subvented ) lustre by the week.

Applesisapples

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3368 on: April 27, 2021, 12:53:51 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

Angelo

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3369 on: April 27, 2021, 02:39:09 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Applesisapples

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3370 on: April 27, 2021, 03:37:13 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.
The point I am and continue to make is that just because you say in a poll you would vote for a UI is not an indication of what you would actually do. I want to see a UI, I would give that answer in an opinion poll. But I know that if push comes to shove and there are unanswered questions or uncertainty, even though it would go against my inclination I could not in conscience vote for a UI. There is much work that needs done before the majority of nationalists in the North are convinced, before you even start on the South or the light green SDLP or Alliance voter.

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3371 on: April 27, 2021, 03:41:46 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

Applesisapples

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3372 on: April 27, 2021, 04:06:16 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?
Supression is not how I would describe it but there is an undeniable aversion to any talk of a UI from many in the Southern state and government. Their idea of unity is aspirational as opposed to actually doing something that might contribute to it.

weareros

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3373 on: April 27, 2021, 04:29:02 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?

The Protocol is a huge move towards a United Ireland. It essentially keeps North & South in same customs union, while Britain moves another way. That's the beginning of an economic UI no matter what way you look at it. I've said before: some of these Loyalist agitators are not stupid, they see the way the wind is blowing. Other previous moves like all-island electricity grid further set the infrastructure in place. Still a long way to go, but even export/import results are starting to show greater economic integration on the island. Think it's more important for governments to this behind the scenes stuff, just like with Brexit when Irish government did begin to set-up alternative shipping routes to the Continent, rather than scrambling to do that now. They also had all EU partners agree that North gets automatic entry into EU in event of unification. That might sound obvious, but Scotland won't get automatic entry, as other EU countries still fret about secession. That kind of work rarely gets appreciated, but surely shows Irish government is thinking about unification and being prepared for it.

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3374 on: April 27, 2021, 09:04:56 PM »
It does not matter what these polls say, there will not be a UI unless and until all the economic issues have been identified and addressed. People harp on about the NHS, it is currently no better than the Health Service in the south and might even be worse. But how do you begin to address the disparity in income standards between North and South without losing jobs as the North is a low pay economy. How do you prevent loyalist unrest? How do you address concerns from the South? I haven't seen any attempt as yet to address these and the other issues in any serious way.

I would put the political inclination to opening a dialogue on a UI like this

Strongly for - SF
Open to: SDLP, Alliance, PBP, Greens, Social Democrats,
Strongly against: DUP/UUP/TUV, FF, FG, Labour

The ones who want to suppress any talk or discussion on a UI are those who have controlled each state for the past 100 years.

What suppression is actually taken place?

What have ideas have been formulated but suppressed by others?
Supression is not how I would describe it but there is an undeniable aversion to any talk of a UI from many in the Southern state and government. Their idea of unity is aspirational as opposed to actually doing something that might contribute to it.

Well Angelo did use the term suppression which is an absolutely incredible allegation.

An aversion is something different as you know. But why would there not be an aversion. My guess is that most political parties in the south would happily make moves towards a united ireland if they thought it would a problem free or nearly problem free option. Its a million miles away from that. There is nothing actually wrong with that