Landlordism 2.0

[Angelo]

https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/state-invested-in-cuckoo-fund-that-snapped-up-hundreds-of-maynooth-homes-b11f56ca

Not a good look for FFG.

[seafoid]

SF are also neoliberal
Go bhfóire Dia orainn.

[Angelo]

I'm bringing the above post to the moderator's attention.

It's a classic case of the same posters trying to turn every thread into the same debate ad nauseam.

[seafoid]

I'm bringing the above post to the moderator's attention.

It's a classic case of the same posters trying to turn every thread into the same debate ad nauseam.

Go ahead.
You can't diss FF/FG about neoliberalism when SF are neoliberal.
It's the same rancid system. It's why Tyrone is so negelcted as well.

[dublin7]

A big problem is the planning laws and NIMBYism from people/politicians. Several housing projects originally approved for planning permission have been overturned in the courts recently. You also have politicians claiming more homes/apartments have to built and the likes of Eoin O'Broin and Leo Varadkar objecting to planning applications in their own constituencies. It seems everyone wants more homes built just not around them

[seafoid]

A big problem is the planning laws and NIMBYism from people/politicians. Several housing projects originally approved for planning permission have been overturned in the courts recently. You also have politicians claiming more homes/apartments have to built and the likes of Eoin O'Broin and Leo Varadkar objecting to planning applications in their own constituencies. It seems everyone wants more homes built just not around them

There are no controls on bank liquidity. Asset bubbles are driven by bank lending and interest rates. The latter are far too low. Combined with bank behaviour prices go through the roof.
When it crashes it will be exactly the same as 2009. The last ones in will get hosed.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien said on Tuesday that he did not approve of investment funds purchasing almost entire new estates.

"Do investors have a role here, in housing in Ireland? Yes, they do as they do in most western European countries."

No they f**king don't.

When the price of rent is equivalent to a mortgage, if not more - then they absolutely have no business near domestic property.

If I were in charge, the simple rules would be:
- a house must be owned by an individual.
- no individual can own more than 2 houses (with a 5 exemption year period for inheritance matters).

Simple and to the point.

I'm sure folks will point toward student housing etc - to which I'd respond - so what? There will be enough people willing to invest their "second" house as a student house and rent it to sort that out - without requiring investment companies etc.

[Angelo]

Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien said on Tuesday that he did not approve of investment funds purchasing almost entire new estates.

"Do investors have a role here, in housing in Ireland? Yes, they do as they do in most western European countries."

No they f**king don't.

When the price of rent is equivalent to a mortgage, if not more - then they absolutely have no business near domestic property.

If I were in charge, the simple rules would be:
- a house must be owned by an individual.
- no individual can own more than 2 houses (with a 5 exemption year period for inheritance matters).

Simple and to the point.

I'm sure folks will point toward student housing etc - to which I'd respond - so what? There will be enough people willing to invest their "second" house as a student house and rent it to sort that out - without requiring investment companies etc.

Agree with fully.

It has been FFG policy to make housing a commodity for investors. Many FFG TDs are landlords though and really should be banned from voting on housing legislation.

[thewobbler]

Minister for Housing Darragh O'Brien said on Tuesday that he did not approve of investment funds purchasing almost entire new estates.

"Do investors have a role here, in housing in Ireland? Yes, they do as they do in most western European countries."

No they f**king don't.

When the price of rent is equivalent to a mortgage, if not more - then they absolutely have no business near domestic property.

If I were in charge, the simple rules would be:
- a house must be owned by an individual.
- no individual can own more than 2 houses (with a 5 exemption year period for inheritance matters).

Simple and to the point.

I'm sure folks will point toward student housing etc - to which I'd respond - so what? There will be enough people willing to invest their "second" house as a student house and rent it to sort that out - without requiring investment companies etc.

I want to agree with you, but the logistics involved in a housing chain (if sale A falls through, then sale B falls too, so sale C can't happen, and sale D has to come off the market) would make your proposal one of extraordinary stress, luck,  and legal intervention.

If you refer to my earlier post about increasing capital gains tax to the point that only rental companies would aspire to own multiple properties, I think it achieves the same goals, but more efficiently

[Hound]

I think there needs to be a bit of realism too, in that property is hardly affordable in other successful cities. Trying buying a house in Paris, London, Madrid. Or Stockholm, Copenhagen, Vienna.

It was mentioned earlier that Irish people are quite unusual in a European context in wanting to own houses. One of the biggest reasons for that is that it was couple of generations earlier when 'ordinary people' in such cities realized they couldn't afford to buy houses in the big cities! But someone owns them!

Dublin was late to the game in a European context in terms of high property prices. When it came, it came big. There was a great chance for a rebase and change of policy after the 2008 crash. But instead all we got from the media and the opposition parties was how terrible it was that property prices had fallen!  'Negative equity' was the buzzword of all opposition politicians, when really that was a small problem - so long as you could afford the mortgage repayments.

So instead of us embracing low(ish) property prices and put in policies to try and keep it that way, incentives were put in to ignite the property market, to encourage outside investors, to help everyone who owned a property to push those prices up, but make it really hard for future potential house buyers to get into the property market! 

The biggest problem with politics is how the system makes everyone short sighted. The only thing that matters is getting elected in the next election. So politicians on all sides lumped into the need to help those in negative equity, regardless of the long term consequences.

[Angelo]

I think there needs to be a bit of realism too, in that property is hardly affordable in other successful cities. Trying buying a house in Paris, London, Madrid. Or Stockholm, Copenhagen, Vienna.

It was mentioned earlier that Irish people are quite unusual in a European context in wanting to own houses. One of the biggest reasons for that is that it was couple of generations earlier when 'ordinary people' in such cities realized they couldn't afford to buy houses in the big cities! But someone owns them!

Dublin was late to the game in a European context in terms of high property prices. When it came, it came big. There was a great chance for a rebase and change of policy after the 2008 crash. But instead all we got from the media and the opposition parties was how terrible it was that property prices had fallen!  'Negative equity' was the buzzword of all opposition politicians, when really that was a small problem - so long as you could afford the mortgage repayments.

So instead of us embracing low(ish) property prices and put in policies to try and keep it that way, incentives were put in to ignite the property market, to encourage outside investors, to help everyone who owned a property to push those prices up, but make it really hard for future potential house buyers to get into the property market! 

The biggest problem with politics is how the system makes everyone short sighted. The only thing that matters is getting elected in the next election. So politicians on all sides lumped into the need to help those in negative equity, regardless of the long term consequences.

What's rental like in these places relative to a price of a mortgage?

The issue seems to be that people are struggling to buy a house in Dublin, but the rental market is probably even more expensive than repaying a mortgage couples can't get.

A FFG created problem, more by design than accident.

[seafoid]

the only rational thing for first time buyers  to do now is stay out of the market.
When prices fall interest rates will rise. A double sucker punch.

A 500K flat in the arsehole of Meath at 1% will be worth 200-250k at 5%.
But the mortgage will be based on 500K. So the monthly cost will be considerably higher along with negative equity.

[Angelo]

the only rational thing for first time buyers  to do now is stay out of the market.
When prices fall interest rates will rise. A double sucker punch.

A 500K flat in the arsehole of Meath at 1% will be worth 200-250k at 5%.
But the mortgage will be based on 500K. So the monthly cost will be considerably higher along with negative equity.

What's the alternative?

Most annual rental payments will top the mortgage of an equivalent property.

[Angelo]

Have a look here.

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-rent/dublin-city/houses?showMap=false

You're looking at monthly rental prices starting at 2k per month in Dublin for an apartment/house.

A 400k 30 year mortgage is €1,600 per month via a quick google search

For someone under 40 who does not hail from money then you cannot win.

>25k on rent is absolutely insane but when you have FFG landlords voting on housing and rental legislation then it's hardly by accident.

People can't save the deposits to get a mortgage so they fleeced on rental properties by private investors who can afford the houses and make massive profits off the rental market. The game is rigged, it's been rigged by the policies and legislation introduced by FFG.

Another example here.

Property goes on the market, 2 bed house at 305k.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/new-to-market/latest-dublin-15-scheme-has-two-bed-houses-from-305-000-1.4005323

The same property is now on the rental market at €1,975 pm.

A thirty year mortgage of 270k with a 35k deposit has monthly repayments of almost half of the rent - €1,075 pm.

To say what Hound has said is just completely disingenuous.

People can't save the deposits for mortgages because they are being fleeced by landlords and vulture funds on the rental market.

[johnnycool]

the only rational thing for first time buyers  to do now is stay out of the market.
When prices fall interest rates will rise. A double sucker punch.

A 500K flat in the arsehole of Meath at 1% will be worth 200-250k at 5%.
But the mortgage will be based on 500K. So the monthly cost will be considerably higher along with negative equity.

What's the alternative?

Most annual rental payments will top the mortgage of an equivalent property.

Decentralising of the job market really needs to happen.

Gov bodies need their headquarters moved out of Dublin and shared around the country and ensure there's more on offer to entice new industries to locate in Cork, Galway, Sligo, Ennis, Wexford, Kilkenny and the likes.

The demand for housing in the Greater Dublin area is based on the need to be near the job market to a larger extent.