Derry V Donegal Ulster final 2022

[JoeSoap]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

Yeah I agree that the hand-wringing over the final is a joke to be honest, we've all endured much much worse games than that, like you say the Monaghan Donegal finals in 2013 and 2015 I think were worse, I could list off a good chunk of games from the top of my head that were much worse than Sunday.

Hope I'm not coming across as sour grapes, it's the opposite for me I've great admiration for what Derry have done, and done the hard way. I'm just disappointed we didn't kick on when we got 2 points up as I felt we had managed the game pretty well to that point. Obviously Derry played their way back into it and some of the skills, running and hunger on display were brilliant, but it's natural enough after a loss to look internally about what went wrong for your own team I think. Don't mean it as sour grapes when I say things like "we should have kicked on" or "we had it and lost it" or things like that.

I agree with you on the atmosphere in Clones too, people complaining about it being quiet for periods, to be honest I don't know about anyone else but whenever I was quiet it was because I was sick to my stomach with the tension of it all, I couldn't take my eyes off the pitch which I heard Ciarán Murphy of Second Captains suggest - he said "you could literally go away and make yourself a sandwich and a cuppa tae and come back and nothing would have happened". Eejit.

[JoeSoap]

"Opinions are great but the reality is that Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh were all in Division One this year and Derry and Down, albeit they were relegated, in Division Two so that's six out of the province in the top two divisions.

"There's no other province that can boast that same record so it is competitive to say the least and that's grand to a certain extent but it's not great if you're beat in the first round. We've drawn Donegal and Tyrone I don't know how many times in the last decade and that makes things harder.

And Derry did it the hard way this year, beating three of those Division One teams McKaigue mentioned – Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal in the Ulster final. Meanwhile, Kerry cantered home in Munster by beating Cork by 12 points and Limerick by 23.


.

"Donegal have a reputation over the last number of years of being fantastic defensively but they don't get the credit for how well tuned-in tactically they are," he said.

"Their attacks are premeditated and very well structured and you get the feeling that everything they do, they know exactly who they want to shoot and how they want to orchestrate the shot.

"You look at the number of scores they've got in Division One over the last two or three years and they've averaged 17-18 points. That's not talked about much in the media. Look at the stats of how much teams are scoring in inter-county now in comparison to 10 years ago, it's day and night.

"There's a level of our game now tactically, physically... Look at the crowds now going to the games, I think the game is in really good health all the boys and girls that I know of want to be playing GAA. I think GAA in Derry and I do believe in Ulster and beyond is in really good health at the minute. I honestly do believe that."



Chrissy mc Keagues thoughts in today's Irish News.
Take not of his comments on Donegal and how their work is not appreciated.
It is not appreciated because we are listening to commentators like Marty Morrisey who really does not appreciat the entirety of Football

Thanks for sharing that, very interesting. I think from a Donegal POV what he says about us is actually part of supporters' frustrations and actually has made me even more worried about our game. You hear reports of players having individualness coached out of them all through the county down through the clubs, sticking to the process etc., to see it laid out from one of our intercounty rivals that that is the case and that we are extremely good at it... I mean of course it's effective but I don't think it will get us over the line in these big games, sometimes you just need an alternative to what you've been doing over and over. And if players are so well drilled on what they *should* do and who *should* be the shooter, when a player who isn't the "shooter" gets in position, is his first instinct to turn and look for the pass rather than take the shot on? That worries me a wee bit.

I was quite pleased to have Shane O'Donnell and Conor O'Donnell on the panel this year as they seemed to do things a little differently in the forward line, but unfortunately Conor hasn't had much gametime in championship. I think Shane had a good game against Derry, chipped in with 2 points.

[yellowcard]

"Opinions are great but the reality is that Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh were all in Division One this year and Derry and Down, albeit they were relegated, in Division Two so that's six out of the province in the top two divisions.

"There's no other province that can boast that same record so it is competitive to say the least and that's grand to a certain extent but it's not great if you're beat in the first round. We've drawn Donegal and Tyrone I don't know how many times in the last decade and that makes things harder.

And Derry did it the hard way this year, beating three of those Division One teams McKaigue mentioned – Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal in the Ulster final. Meanwhile, Kerry cantered home in Munster by beating Cork by 12 points and Limerick by 23.


.

"Donegal have a reputation over the last number of years of being fantastic defensively but they don't get the credit for how well tuned-in tactically they are," he said.

"Their attacks are premeditated and very well structured and you get the feeling that everything they do, they know exactly who they want to shoot and how they want to orchestrate the shot.

"You look at the number of scores they've got in Division One over the last two or three years and they've averaged 17-18 points. That's not talked about much in the media. Look at the stats of how much teams are scoring in inter-county now in comparison to 10 years ago, it's day and night.

"There's a level of our game now tactically, physically... Look at the crowds now going to the games, I think the game is in really good health all the boys and girls that I know of want to be playing GAA. I think GAA in Derry and I do believe in Ulster and beyond is in really good health at the minute. I honestly do believe that."



Chrissy mc Keagues thoughts in today's Irish News.
Take not of his comments on Donegal and how their work is not appreciated.
It is not appreciated because we are listening to commentators like Marty Morrisey who really does not appreciat the entirety of Football

I wouldn't argue with many of his points but he sees things totally through his prism as a player. In terms of the players preparation, physically, mentally, tactically and their overall skill level, the game has never been better. But that does not translate to a better spectacle.

For instance he says that Donegals attacks are premeditated and structured as though it is a positive. And maybe it is from a coaches perspective. And certain types of players like to be told exactly what to do, where to run, what to eat, how much to sleep in a game that is broken down into numbers and statistics. But from a spectator perspective I want to see a bit of spontaneity, risk taking, unpredictability and individual flair. It discourages creative thinking. We are in era of massive over coaching where the game leans heavily on GPS data, statistics, video analysis. What we seen on Sunday was a game of risk reduction and two teams trying to make the least amount of mistakes and in that case the fear of losing becomes greater than the desire to win.

It was great to see Derry win the match and there has probably been no more deserving winner of an Ulster championship in recent years considering the teams that they beat, but that shouldn't stop us from analysing the game the way we see it. If people disagree with that then just accept it as being a differing opinion as to what constitutes a good spectacle.       

[J70]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

[restorepride]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

Your inference is that Derry won because Donegal didn't play well. That detracts from Derry's win whether you fully realised/meant that or not. Lazy commentary, like RTÉ. Enjoying the win of course!! And forever! If it takes another 24 years, I'll not be around!!

[J70]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

Your inference is that Derry won because Donegal didn't play well. That detracts from Derry's win whether you fully realised/meant that or not. Lazy commentary, like RTÉ. Enjoying the win of course!! And forever! If it takes another 24 years, I'll not be around!!

That's YOUR inference.

I'm complaining about how Donegal are playing, not only in this match, but for months and months now. The tactical approach, not whether the team played well and how it executed the game plan on the day. Had we been developing a less negative approach, we might have won, but then again we might not and we might have lost more heavily. But I'm not talking about the RESULT of this game. I already said that even if we had won, it would have been a hollow victory for me (I said the same under Rory Gallagher when we lost that awful, if equally tight and tense, final to Tyrone in 2016 in the last kick of the 2012 team). I'm just fed up with our general, negative, fear-based approach, especially after the first couple of years under Bonner had been so promising. Which has nothing to do with Derry.

We were at the same shite down in Killarney in the league. Against Monaghan in the league. When we blew a healthy lead against Mayo in Sligo in the first game. All fear-based, risk-averse negativity.

[restorepride]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

Your inference is that Derry won because Donegal didn't play well. That detracts from Derry's win whether you fully realised/meant that or not. Lazy commentary, like RTÉ. Enjoying the win of course!! And forever! If it takes another 24 years, I'll not be around!!

That's YOUR inference.

I'm complaining about how Donegal are playing, not only in this match, but for months and months now. The tactical approach, not whether the team played well and how it executed the game plan on the day. Had we been developing a less negative approach, we might have won, but then again we might not and we might have lost more heavily. But I'm not talking about the RESULT of this game. I already said that even if we had won, it would have been a hollow victory for me (I said the same under Rory Gallagher when we lost that awful, if equally tight and tense, final to Tyrone in 2016 in the last kick of the 2012 team). I'm just fed up with our general, negative, fear-based approach, especially after the first couple of years under Bonner had been so promising. Which has nothing to do with Derry.

We were at the same shite down in Killarney in the league. Against Monaghan in the league. When we blew a healthy lead against Mayo in Sligo in the first game. All fear-based, risk-averse negativity.

Perhaps share your frustrations then on a Donegal thread rather than Derry v Donegal? You could even have you hollow victory sob without dragging Doire into it?

[screenexile]

Jesus restorepride give the man a break... we all look to our own teams failings when we're beat it's only natural.

He's said far less than most of the media in the south have been saying all week!!

[J70]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

Your inference is that Derry won because Donegal didn't play well. That detracts from Derry's win whether you fully realised/meant that or not. Lazy commentary, like RTÉ. Enjoying the win of course!! And forever! If it takes another 24 years, I'll not be around!!

That's YOUR inference.

I'm complaining about how Donegal are playing, not only in this match, but for months and months now. The tactical approach, not whether the team played well and how it executed the game plan on the day. Had we been developing a less negative approach, we might have won, but then again we might not and we might have lost more heavily. But I'm not talking about the RESULT of this game. I already said that even if we had won, it would have been a hollow victory for me (I said the same under Rory Gallagher when we lost that awful, if equally tight and tense, final to Tyrone in 2016 in the last kick of the 2012 team). I'm just fed up with our general, negative, fear-based approach, especially after the first couple of years under Bonner had been so promising. Which has nothing to do with Derry.

We were at the same shite down in Killarney in the league. Against Monaghan in the league. When we blew a healthy lead against Mayo in Sligo in the first game. All fear-based, risk-averse negativity.

Perhaps share your frustrations then on a Donegal thread rather than Derry v Donegal? You could even have you hollow victory sob without dragging Doire into it?

How about you put me on ignore if my musings bother you so much?

There is no Donegal thread. There's only two or three of us on here at the very best of times.

[Silver hill]

"Opinions are great but the reality is that Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh were all in Division One this year and Derry and Down, albeit they were relegated, in Division Two so that's six out of the province in the top two divisions.

"There's no other province that can boast that same record so it is competitive to say the least and that's grand to a certain extent but it's not great if you're beat in the first round. We've drawn Donegal and Tyrone I don't know how many times in the last decade and that makes things harder.

And Derry did it the hard way this year, beating three of those Division One teams McKaigue mentioned – Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal in the Ulster final. Meanwhile, Kerry cantered home in Munster by beating Cork by 12 points and Limerick by 23.


.

"Donegal have a reputation over the last number of years of being fantastic defensively but they don't get the credit for how well tuned-in tactically they are," he said.

"Their attacks are premeditated and very well structured and you get the feeling that everything they do, they know exactly who they want to shoot and how they want to orchestrate the shot.

"You look at the number of scores they've got in Division One over the last two or three years and they've averaged 17-18 points. That's not talked about much in the media. Look at the stats of how much teams are scoring in inter-county now in comparison to 10 years ago, it's day and night.

"There's a level of our game now tactically, physically... Look at the crowds now going to the games, I think the game is in really good health all the boys and girls that I know of want to be playing GAA. I think GAA in Derry and I do believe in Ulster and beyond is in really good health at the minute. I honestly do believe that."



Chrissy mc Keagues thoughts in today's Irish News.
Take not of his comments on Donegal and how their work is not appreciated.
It is not appreciated because we are listening to commentators like Marty Morrisey who really does not appreciat the entirety of Football

I wouldn't argue with many of his points but he sees things totally through his prism as a player. In terms of the players preparation, physically, mentally, tactically and their overall skill level, the game has never been better. But that does not translate to a better spectacle.

For instance he says that Donegals attacks are premeditated and structured as though it is a positive. And maybe it is from a coaches perspective. And certain types of players like to be told exactly what to do, where to run, what to eat, how much to sleep in a game that is broken down into numbers and statistics. But from a spectator perspective I want to see a bit of spontaneity, risk taking, unpredictability and individual flair. It discourages creative thinking. We are in era of massive over coaching where the game leans heavily on GPS data, statistics, video analysis. What we seen on Sunday was a game of risk reduction and two teams trying to make the least amount of mistakes and in that case the fear of losing becomes greater than the desire to win.

It was great to see Derry win the match and there has probably been no more deserving winner of an Ulster championship in recent years considering the teams that they beat, but that shouldn't stop us from analysing the game the way we see it. If people disagree with that then just accept it as being a differing opinion as to what constitutes a good spectacle.       

Great post. There needs to be some cognisance given to the state of the game as a spectacle. For a Derry man, it's only natural that the feeling is that, after 24 years, you don't really care how we won on Sunday. But that doesn't mean that once the dust has settled, we can't look at things objectively, and agree that the rules need to move with the game to improve the spectacle.
4 forwards inside the opposing 50 at all times would be a simple and effective start.

[JoG2]

"Opinions are great but the reality is that Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh were all in Division One this year and Derry and Down, albeit they were relegated, in Division Two so that's six out of the province in the top two divisions.

"There's no other province that can boast that same record so it is competitive to say the least and that's grand to a certain extent but it's not great if you're beat in the first round. We've drawn Donegal and Tyrone I don't know how many times in the last decade and that makes things harder.

And Derry did it the hard way this year, beating three of those Division One teams McKaigue mentioned – Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal in the Ulster final. Meanwhile, Kerry cantered home in Munster by beating Cork by 12 points and Limerick by 23.


.

"Donegal have a reputation over the last number of years of being fantastic defensively but they don't get the credit for how well tuned-in tactically they are," he said.

"Their attacks are premeditated and very well structured and you get the feeling that everything they do, they know exactly who they want to shoot and how they want to orchestrate the shot.

"You look at the number of scores they've got in Division One over the last two or three years and they've averaged 17-18 points. That's not talked about much in the media. Look at the stats of how much teams are scoring in inter-county now in comparison to 10 years ago, it's day and night.

"There's a level of our game now tactically, physically... Look at the crowds now going to the games, I think the game is in really good health all the boys and girls that I know of want to be playing GAA. I think GAA in Derry and I do believe in Ulster and beyond is in really good health at the minute. I honestly do believe that."



Chrissy mc Keagues thoughts in today's Irish News.
Take not of his comments on Donegal and how their work is not appreciated.
It is not appreciated because we are listening to commentators like Marty Morrisey who really does not appreciat the entirety of Football

I wouldn't argue with many of his points but he sees things totally through his prism as a player. In terms of the players preparation, physically, mentally, tactically and their overall skill level, the game has never been better. But that does not translate to a better spectacle.

For instance he says that Donegals attacks are premeditated and structured as though it is a positive. And maybe it is from a coaches perspective. And certain types of players like to be told exactly what to do, where to run, what to eat, how much to sleep in a game that is broken down into numbers and statistics. But from a spectator perspective I want to see a bit of spontaneity, risk taking, unpredictability and individual flair. It discourages creative thinking. We are in era of massive over coaching where the game leans heavily on GPS data, statistics, video analysis. What we seen on Sunday was a game of risk reduction and two teams trying to make the least amount of mistakes and in that case the fear of losing becomes greater than the desire to win.

It was great to see Derry win the match and there has probably been no more deserving winner of an Ulster championship in recent years considering the teams that they beat, but that shouldn't stop us from analysing the game the way we see it. If people disagree with that then just accept it as being a differing opinion as to what constitutes a good spectacle.       

Great post. There needs to be some cognisance given to the state of the game as a spectacle. For a Derry man, it's only natural that the feeling is that, after 24 years, you don't really care how we won on Sunday. But that doesn't mean that once the dust has settled, we can't look at things objectively, and agree that the rules need to move with the game to improve the spectacle.
4 forwards inside the opposing 50 at all times would be a simple and effective start.

Maybe a laser beam across the 50, linked to a loud horn which alerts the masses when one of the 4 players steps over the line by an inch waiting on a ball to reach his length? I'd watch

[Silver hill]

"Opinions are great but the reality is that Monaghan, Tyrone, Donegal and Armagh were all in Division One this year and Derry and Down, albeit they were relegated, in Division Two so that's six out of the province in the top two divisions.

"There's no other province that can boast that same record so it is competitive to say the least and that's grand to a certain extent but it's not great if you're beat in the first round. We've drawn Donegal and Tyrone I don't know how many times in the last decade and that makes things harder.

And Derry did it the hard way this year, beating three of those Division One teams McKaigue mentioned – Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal in the Ulster final. Meanwhile, Kerry cantered home in Munster by beating Cork by 12 points and Limerick by 23.


.

"Donegal have a reputation over the last number of years of being fantastic defensively but they don't get the credit for how well tuned-in tactically they are," he said.

"Their attacks are premeditated and very well structured and you get the feeling that everything they do, they know exactly who they want to shoot and how they want to orchestrate the shot.

"You look at the number of scores they've got in Division One over the last two or three years and they've averaged 17-18 points. That's not talked about much in the media. Look at the stats of how much teams are scoring in inter-county now in comparison to 10 years ago, it's day and night.

"There's a level of our game now tactically, physically... Look at the crowds now going to the games, I think the game is in really good health all the boys and girls that I know of want to be playing GAA. I think GAA in Derry and I do believe in Ulster and beyond is in really good health at the minute. I honestly do believe that."



Chrissy mc Keagues thoughts in today's Irish News.
Take not of his comments on Donegal and how their work is not appreciated.
It is not appreciated because we are listening to commentators like Marty Morrisey who really does not appreciat the entirety of Football

I wouldn't argue with many of his points but he sees things totally through his prism as a player. In terms of the players preparation, physically, mentally, tactically and their overall skill level, the game has never been better. But that does not translate to a better spectacle.

For instance he says that Donegals attacks are premeditated and structured as though it is a positive. And maybe it is from a coaches perspective. And certain types of players like to be told exactly what to do, where to run, what to eat, how much to sleep in a game that is broken down into numbers and statistics. But from a spectator perspective I want to see a bit of spontaneity, risk taking, unpredictability and individual flair. It discourages creative thinking. We are in era of massive over coaching where the game leans heavily on GPS data, statistics, video analysis. What we seen on Sunday was a game of risk reduction and two teams trying to make the least amount of mistakes and in that case the fear of losing becomes greater than the desire to win.

It was great to see Derry win the match and there has probably been no more deserving winner of an Ulster championship in recent years considering the teams that they beat, but that shouldn't stop us from analysing the game the way we see it. If people disagree with that then just accept it as being a differing opinion as to what constitutes a good spectacle.       

Great post. There needs to be some cognisance given to the state of the game as a spectacle. For a Derry man, it's only natural that the feeling is that, after 24 years, you don't really care how we won on Sunday. But that doesn't mean that once the dust has settled, we can't look at things objectively, and agree that the rules need to move with the game to improve the spectacle.
4 forwards inside the opposing 50 at all times would be a simple and effective start.

Maybe a laser beam across the 50, linked to a loud horn which alerts the masses when one of the 4 players steps over the line by an inch waiting on a ball to reach his length? I'd watch

All sports evolve to improve their game.
Look at the back pass in soccer, the shot clock in basket ball or 5 points for a try in rugby.
They all do it...are we so arrogant that we think our game, in its current format, doesn't need to evolve with the tactics that are being employed currently?
Believe it on not, but there is an obligation on our administrators and delegates to make the game entertaining.

[restorepride]

In terms of management I suppose Rory Kavanagh would be touted but people complaining about our style of play would want to be worried about the club game as well. Rochford I'm not convinced has brought anything since 2019. It's gotten very stale unfortunately, I thought Bonner was a breath of fresh air and the drawn game v Kerry in Croke Park 2019 was one of my most enjoyable days following Donegal in many a year. We played brilliant stuff that day.

But I suppose circumstances have meant we've not had a proper run since that year and in the intervening championships we seem to have become much more conservative and cautious in those big games. The Cavan defeat in 2020 I think was hugely damaging to the team and to Bonner.

I have heard those rumblings about Murphy before and I think maybe it's the case that he likes to drift out but if he was getting a clear instruction from management to stay inside for a certain amount of team in each game, from knowing his personality I would be very surprised if Murphy would just ignore that.

Fair point about the club game and how players in Donegal are developing, but surely that cycle has to break soon as well? I've been away for years, but I'm not sure I'd be too bothered sending my kids down to the local club if all they were learning was tactical blanket defense shite instead of just learning and playing the man-on-man game I grew up with. Surely people on the ground must be getting tired of this?

Back to Sunday, I don't think I've ever been as disillusioned about watching Donegal as I was during that game. Was texting about this with a mate from Cavan during it (he was in Clones and he thought it was awful shite!), and even if we had managed to sneak it, it would have been possibly the least satisfying Ulster win I'd ever experienced. Because I think it would have just papered over the cracks. Even as Ulster champions, we'd be going nowhere in the AI series. We're too easy to shut down, and we're far too fearful and risk-averse to compete with any of the leading contenders.

Whoever we get in the qualifiers, I'd love to see Bonner just take it as a free hit, make Murphy stay up on front with McBrearty and Brennan, and f**king go for it. Start pumping in some fast, long ball along with the running. Because what we're doing now has to end. We're not winning an AI anyway, so if we go out in the qualifiers instead of the QF, so what?

More shite on here than in Clones. And some very sour grapes because Derry outfoxed Donegal. I mean like, how dare we beat Donegal using the tactics Donegal used for years?! It actually was quite an enjoyable game overall and the atmosphere in Clones was brilliant. Much of the play and defensive blocking and dispossession was top class stuff - Paul Cassidy and Niall Loughlin. Some of the points Donegal scored were excellent - Murphy, McHugh, Mogan and Thompson. Some of Roger's runs were as exciting as any I've seen. Get off the players' backs or go watch Limerick v Kerry next year. Sunday was no different than a few Monaghan v Donegal finals in recent years. Also higher scoring so take off the blinkers.

I didn't say a word about Derry in that post. In other posts I've only congratulated them and expressed that I'm pleased they're finally back. I'm talking about Donegal and how poor they've been for 18 months. So enjoy your win and stop looking for offense where it doesn't exist.

Your inference is that Derry won because Donegal didn't play well. That detracts from Derry's win whether you fully realised/meant that or not. Lazy commentary, like RTÉ. Enjoying the win of course!! And forever! If it takes another 24 years, I'll not be around!!

That's YOUR inference.

I'm complaining about how Donegal are playing, not only in this match, but for months and months now. The tactical approach, not whether the team played well and how it executed the game plan on the day. Had we been developing a less negative approach, we might have won, but then again we might not and we might have lost more heavily. But I'm not talking about the RESULT of this game. I already said that even if we had won, it would have been a hollow victory for me (I said the same under Rory Gallagher when we lost that awful, if equally tight and tense, final to Tyrone in 2016 in the last kick of the 2012 team). I'm just fed up with our general, negative, fear-based approach, especially after the first couple of years under Bonner had been so promising. Which has nothing to do with Derry.

We were at the same shite down in Killarney in the league. Against Monaghan in the league. When we blew a healthy lead against Mayo in Sligo in the first game. All fear-based, risk-averse negativity.

Perhaps share your frustrations then on a Donegal thread rather than Derry v Donegal? You could even have you hollow victory sob without dragging Doire into it?

How about you put me on ignore if my musings bother you so much?

There is no Donegal thread. There's only two or three of us on here at the very best of times.

You could always start one? Nothing on here really bothers me - bit of an anonymous play ground - but the "awful shite" comment is an over reaction. Derry players deserve more respect than that as do those Donegal players who have given so much to the jersey at a higher level than Derry for many years. To call their efforts "pure shite" is really disloyal imo.

[Silver hill]

Restore, give it a rest man. For someone who 'doesn't really get too bothered' you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time trawling back over threads looking to rub the noses of anyone who has had the temerity to slight you or give an alternative opinion.
Only one think worse than a sore loser and that's a sore winner.
As a Derry man, brilliant that we won, but we are all allowed to have an opinion on the state of the game in general and if it was boring to watch or not.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Humbleness is what we need.

Brendan Rogers epitomises that