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The reason they would not have made deadline is because the Tories let it drag on after initially committing to funding it, by the time Labour came along, it was already too late.

The Tory government didn't just "let it drag". Instead they baulked when the saw the scale of the GAA's demands, which seeing as the GAA felt they could milk the Euro2028 cash cow for every last drop, was WAY over what was reasonable. While the succeeding Labour government agreed - hardly surprising since we were talking somewhere north of a third of a billion pounds!

The UK government spent £9 billion on hosting 2012 Olympics so it was peculiar suddenly there was no money for Casement. Euro 28 will be a big showcase for these two islands.

Dear God! Are you really drawing a comparison between Belfast's hosting a group in Euro28 and the Olympic Games?

The Olympics drew hundreds of thousands of visitors from overseas, with nearly 11,000 participating athletes alone. The facilities were then available to host the Paralympics which followed. The legacy included not just the Athletics Stadium, which incidentally has been drawing 60k spectators over 20 times a season to WHU games etc, plus major athletics meets and concerts etc; but also brand new state of the art facilities for cycling, swimming, canoeing, gymnastics, rowing, BMX etc. All of this was situated in a brand new Olympic Park, now a welcome green amenity for the locals, along with new Tube stations and other major public transport upgrades. Oh, and the Athletics Village was converted to provide nearly 4,000 flats for something like 8,000 local residents, all of which formed major regeneration for one of the poorer areas of London.

By contrast, Euro 28 would have seen Casement host 5 or 6 games, possibly for the likes of Bosnia, Denmark, Azerbaijan, Austria, Slovakia etc, with no guarantee that NI themselves would even qualify, and er, that would have been it. "Whoop-di-doo", as I think the phrase goes. (And I say all that as someone who would still have liked to see Casement host a Group - but not at any price, if only because it would have swallowed up the entire budget for all sports for the next 20 or 30 years.)

There would have been money if it did not become a political football. The DUP spoke out against it in Westminster, saying it was outrageous to spend money on Casement when hospitals and local
services were underfunded - as if that was Casement's fault. Chris Heaton-Harris wanted to appease Unionists after their anger over NI Protocol.

There was money - still is - but not the hundreds of millions the GAA were demanding over and above their own paltry £15m contribution, for something which would provide a legacy of precisely one sell-out football final a year.

(As for Unionist "anger", the Tories had a majority of over 80 seats in 2019, meaning they could blithely ignore it - which they did, btw, on that and just about every other issue.)

All in all it was the IFA that approached GAA for Casement and government committed to making it happen. That they pulled the plug is the reason it did not happen.

Of course the IFA wanted it, if only because it wouldn't have cost them anything, while generating extra revenue for the game in NI, plus home advantage (possibly), prestige and the chance to rub shoulders with the Big Boys at UEFA etc.
But while both governments, Tory and Labour were supportive in principle, neither could or would sign a blank cheque.

North has a 17 billion deficit every year. A few hundred million on a stadium that would bring investment over next 20 years was good use of public money. The NI deficit not caused by Casement will cost UK taxpayer 340 billion over next 20 years. That's one thing you won't hear Unionist talk about in Westminster.

Er, a deficit like that is cause NOT to waste more money unnecessarily, rather than add to it, thereby necessitating cuts elsewhere to rather more vital services.

None of which is to say that Casement doesn't deserve significant government support to get built - it quite clearly does. But the sums which were originally envisaged and ringfenced should have been more than adequate to provide a suitable stadium, had it not been for the GAA's hubris, arrogance, waste and incompetence, qualities which I'm pleased to see are recognised by a number of reasonable posters on this forum.

Finally, had the government and GAA somehow agreed a figure to get the project started at some stage, do you have any confidence that the GAA would have brought the project home on time and within budget? Or how far do you think they'd have got before the begging bowl came out again?

Euro28 should never have been in the conversation. A millstone.

Except it was just the GAA's last chance to screw an extra huge wedge out of the Brits, even if it always was pretty hopeless - a "Hail Mary", if you like.

You can't put that on GAA. The IFA wanted to be part of the UK/Ireland 2030 World Cup bid and Casement was their only hope. This was initially a WC bid that got switched to Euro 2028, as it was believed at time there was a better chance of securing that. In any case the UK and Irish gov both backed it and all Football Associations backed it. Then NI football supporters, Bryson and the likes objected, and Tories got cold feet even though every country that hosts competitions like this invest in big infrastructure projects. This was scuppered by a section of Unionists.

The objections from NI fans - not all of them btw - Bwyson and a few Tory backbenchers etc was absolutely NOT what scuppered the deal, since Westminster could easily have ignored them.

Rather it was because the GAA were saying that it would take £300m or £400m, depending on whose figures you believe, to build a Euro-compliant stadium*. So that it was actually the Labour government which in September 2024 finally pulled the plug on it as being unaffordable, despite their NI Secretary Hillary Benn being otherwise broadly sympathetic:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7899k921ko

Or do you imagine that even at the lower estimate, £242m** of government funding would have been justified?


* - Long experience tells us that even had the funding somehow been available, it would still have been very doubtful that the GAA could have had the new Casement ready by the summer of 2027 i.e. UEFA's deadline for the first test event for any newly-built stadium.

** - That is £300m  minus Dublin's £43m and the GAA's own £15m. Or up to £342m of government funding were the £400m total cost to be accurate.

Euro28 should never have been in the conversation. A millstone.

Except it was just the GAA's last chance to screw an extra huge wedge out of the Brits, even if it always was pretty hopeless - a "Hail Mary", if you like.

I'd like a 10,000 all-seater with seats completely all the way around.

Plus seats that are not making you squash up like sardines. I'm not that big but I finf the seats in the AG Armagh tight enought.

A nice tidy compact stadium that when 3/4 full would create a great atmosphere. 

I wouldn't.

You can have your seats.

But please don't force that on those that prefer to stand.

I can't comment on the merits of seating vs terracing in the original plan (though iirc the GAA were opting for all-seater from the beginning?).

Anyhow, by the time the GAA were hoping that Euro2028 soccer would save them (by justifying extra government funding), that could only ever have been all-seater, since that is/was a mandatory UEFA requirement.

While a nice, tidy 10,000 (County-standard) ground would NEVER have qualified as a "regional" stadium to receive government funding from the original Maze money.

It does strike me more a problem of dysfunctional government in the basket case state.

Basket case or no, both Soccer and Rugby managed to get their affairs in order in time, with the former even having to build a new Kop stand which hadn't been in the original plan (thanks to the adjacent BCC Leisure centre having been badly built).

And all that with SF/SDLP holding the Sports Minister's portfolio for the great majority of the time.

[Please use every last penny available to build the best atmospheric stadium for whatever number of seats money will buy these days, and hand it back to Antrim GAA.]

Very few come out this saga looking well including but not limited to successive GAA presidents, Ulster Council, the Casement residents and Sinn Fein.

Why Sinn Fein didn't take Communities when Stormont was restored is beyond me. The GAA and Irish language are getting an absolute kicking and there's nothing SF can do about it.

A farce for all concerned!!

Bunch of amateurs, and throw in an ample amount of 'big talk' as well along the way, with nothing to back it up only farcical photoshoots.
Please use every last penny available to build the best atmospheric stadium for whatever number of seats money will buy these days, and hand it back to Antrim GAA.

That's fine, but why should money from Stormont only go to Antrim? Are each of the 6 counties not entitled to a shake, although not necessarily an equal one.

Building a small Antrim/county-sized stadium of, say, 15k capacity would very possibly not qualify for government funding, Westminster or Stormont.

You need to go back to the origins of the whole scheme, whereby Westminster's £62.5m funding was the GAA's share of the Maze Stadium money after that project collapsed.

So that instead of a shared National Stadium for all three codes, the money was to be divided up for each to build their own "national" stadium. (I say "national", though when the GAA objected to the term, it became "regional").

Anyhow, this was the basis for the GAA's whole plan for Casement, even though it was a bit of a stretch to demonstrate that the GAA actually needed such a stadium, since Clones was considered adequate for Ulster purposes (back then, at any rate), meaning Belfast/Antrim didn't really need something so big and shiny. Which latter point was reflected in the GAA's own plans, whereby they envisaged that a 34k stadium would be filled for precisely ONE game a year, the Ulster Mens Football Final.

Nonetheless, the new Casement could (just about) be represented as the equivalent of the IFA's Windsor and UR's Ravenhill, thereby justifying their share of the Maze money distribution.

Then as we know, Westminster later came up with an additional £50m (I think) to try to get things going after it became bogged down.

Anyhow, I suspect that while a fudge might get the original £62.5m from Stormont over the line, Westminster could well argue that the additional £50m is no longer needed/justified, on the basis that the new, scaled-down plan could still be built for £127.5m (i.e. original £62.5m + £15m GAA's original contribution + £50m* Irish Government grant).


* - Or was it €50m? (Unsure)

[It doesn't say that the players got the 100 guineas]

It doesn't say that the players got the 100 guineas. And Tipp were always likely to have won.

No doubt and no comment.

It will most likely have been staged for gambling purposes. It is similar to Steeplechasing, first recorded in Co. Cork in 1752, where (I think) two wealthy landowners each put a large stake on their best horse and jockey in a cross-country race between two landmarks (church steeples) on a winner-takes-all basis.

Abd it was very common in England around that time for wealthy landowners to raise a cricket team from the village they owned to challenge the village team of a neighbouring landlord on a similar basis.

Indeed, gambling on cricket was so prevalent that the Courts risked being overwhelmed with disputes, meaning the government was forced to make gambling a private contractual matter between participants, so that you couldn't sue someone for not paying out etc, a situation which afaik continued until an Act of Parliament in 2005 which gave legal recognition to regulated betting.

(I'm open to correction on the above by better informed posters than me, btw).

Don't ask me how I came across this, but an entry in The Dublin Gazette, No. 2854, covering Tuesday 27 September 1774 to Thursday 29 September 1774 notes the following:

"On Thursday last, there was a very great Hurling Match for an Hundred Guineas between the principal Hurlers in the County of Tipperary and the County of Galway, at Ballingarry, near this Town, which was won by the former."
https://virtualtreasury.ie/item/DGZ-1774-2854

Amateur sport, eh? 
 

My understanding of government funding is that if money is allocated to project X the recipent cannot choose to spend it on project Y. Soccer got less money for Windsor Park and the balance of the allocation went to regional stadium funding.
GAA and governments would need to go back to the drawing board to redistribute Casement money elsewhere. But as Duine says it is so long ago I could be talking ballix.

Not quite.

On realising that HMG owned a site at The Maze which was going spare, some rocket scientist* at Westminster came up with a whizzo scheme to build a sports stadium out there, which would be shared equally between GAA, Soccer and Rugby. This would kick start the redevelopment of the whole site with other uses etc, and need a budget of £140m.

Then when it was realised that it could never pay its way, but would instead be a financial drain, they eventually decided to reallocate the money to the three governing bodies, each to build their own "Regional" stadium. This was divided £62.5M to GAA and IFA each, plus £15m to Rugby. (Think those figures are correct, if not they're ballpark. Sorry  )

Rugby was happy enough with it's share to tart up Ravenhill, ditto GAA for Casement, to which they were going to add £15m of their own. When it came to Soccer however, the IFA argued that it didn't need the full whack for Windsor, so instead they got a dispensation to use £26.5m there, and dedicate the balance of £36.5m for "Sub-Regional Stadia".

This last might have been after the money was devolved from Westminster to Stormont (unsure?), either way it was effectively determined that the £36.5m could not be disbursed until after the 3 Regional stadia were completed. Which is why Soccer has been kept waiting all this time, until the latest DCAL Minister broke the logjam.

Now as it happens, I suspect that if Ulster GAA were to decide that their original plan for Casement simply isn't going to fly, then they could probably renegotiate a scheme whereby some could be diverted towards other County grounds, as with soccer, though only amongst the six NI counties. But if so, that raises a further problem, namely that Hilary Benn could decide to reduce, or even pull entirely, the additional £50m allocated from Westminster, since that was dedicated towards an all-singing, all-dancing super stadium at Casement which, if not built, then wouldn't justify any extra.

While the Dublin government might decide that their €50m, originally allocated to get Casement over the line, shouldn't really be diverted elsewhere. I suspect they could, at least if some of it went to the three counties in ROI, but it shouldn't be taken for granted, since Dublin money for a big new Ulster Stadium is one thing, but propping up a few county stadia elsewhere in NI might play out differently, from a political pov at least?


* - Or do I merely mean "rocket"?

Soccer is based on an sectarian entity, any of the above is mere mitigation.

The thing is, Soccer was always an all-Ireland sport, until the Partitionist 26 Counties seceded and formed their own, separatist entity.

The game was based in Belfast. Bohemians and Shelbourne won the Cup. 8 out of 10 teams were from Belfast.  Soccer is partitionist. Rugby and GAA aren't. 

Even if I took your and Armaghniac's fairly witless simplifications at face value - which I obviously don't - I still cannot see what any of it has to do with the demographic problems facing the GAA.

You know, the subject of this thread, on this GAA forum?

Unless you have nothing better by which to avoid addressing the Elephant in the Room?

Antrim poor here, even given its demographics.

Interesting one.

As it happens, it's just been announced that Oran Kearney has been appointed manager of Ballymena United FC. And while I know you cannot always go by names, it is nonetheless interesting to see some of those who make up the squad he inherits:
Declan Breen, Jack O'Reilly, Daire O'Connor, Kian Corbally, Patrick McEleney, Sean O'Neill, Donal Rocks, Stephen O'Connell, Danny Lafferty and Daithi McCallion. (This last, who has represented NI at under-age level, is the son of former Sinn Fein MP Elisha btw).
https://ballymenaunitedfc.com/the-playing-squad

Of course this should give no cause for comment - and indeed it doesn't - even in the "Buckle on Ulster's Bible Belt"!

But I list it here for the contrast it provides to eg the current Antrim Senior squad, where there isn't a Kyle or a Victor about the place:
https://antrim.gaa.ie/teams/senior-football

But heyho, so many on this Board insist that Soccer is the code with the problem of not being so inclusive as it might be, not the GAA, that it must be true. 

Enniskillen Santos, total facepalm every time i seen it in print

I suspect they chose that name since the town is fast running out of alternatives, such is the turnover of clubs there. And I believe that Santos themselves no longer exist.

Anyway, Enniskillen currently has four clubs participating in the Fermanagh & Western: Ekn Town United, Ekn Rangers, Ekn Rovers and Ekn Galaxy, though in previous times they've had five, or maybe even six? 

Curiously enough for a predominantly Nationalist town (just about), it only has one GAA club and one Rugby club, despite St.Michaels and Portora schools respectively both being strong in those two codes.

Maybe because Unionists are told by their immature twats of leaders that the GAA is the IRA at play and other such ridiculous shite which they believe!

When it comes to matters of recreation, leisure time and sporting activities, how many people in the Nationalist community take their cue directly from what SF or SDLP politicans tell them?

I'm guessing that it's virtually none and why do I suppose that? Because it's the exactly the same for their Unionist equivalents.

But I would also guess that you (specifically) may also take your cue on such matters, and much else besides, from your own immature twats of leaders. At least if the political slant of your posting is anything to go by.

Theres loads of clubs available to unionists. Bout the same as the amount of clubs available to people of a nationalist perspective.

Aye, but how proactive/successful are they in making that availability attractive to Unionists?

With the risk of engaging in whataboutary, I suppose the same could be said for how the NI support still only pulls from one side as well. Complete failure to properly engage with half the population of NI. A damning failure.

Soccer in NI is about a hell of a sight more than the NI national team. There are literally hundreds of clubs, at all levels, with many thousands of regular participants in all aspects of the game.
And these clubs are very representative of both main communities throughout the entirety of NI. Why only earlier today, the 5th Round draw for the Irish Cup (note the name  ) threw up eg Strabane Athletic vs Glentoran, Glenavon vs Newington, Dungannon vs Ards and Cliftonville vs Dundela.

So your "complete failure" is nonsense. 

P.S. Even when comnfined to the senior NI team, the current Manager is from a Nationalist/GAA Background, as is the Captain, as are several of the Board members, many of the staff both non-playing and playing (O'Neill's Assistant Manager is Dubliner Diarmuid O'Carroll). While the CEO is an Englishman whose family background hails from both parts of Ireland. I can confidently claim that there is no GAA equivalent, nor anything even close to it, anywhere in NI.

P.P.S. There's no "risk" about it, you are engaging in Whataboutery. Still, i suppose it's a lot easier than actually addressing the real point at issue, namely the demographic problems facing the present-day GAA. All of the problems, that is.

Evil Genius is being a tad disingenuous. Unionism has traditionally been hostile towards the GAA. Was it the boul Sammy that called us "The IRA at play?"

In the same way as Nationalism was traditionally hostile towards "Garrison games".

Was it the boul Sammy that called us "The IRA at play?"
Even renowned "moderate" Doug Beattie got his knickers in a twist a few years ago when *checks notes* St Paul's Lurgan had the audacity to put goal nets up in their club colours. Poor ol Doug thought that the local IRA training camp GAA club were trying to "mark territory". One can only imagine the privately held views if this is the nonsense an MLA is daft enough to come out with.

Only this week a gentleman from Braniel was found guilty of placing pipe bombs at the grounds used by arguably Ulster's most progressive GAA club. This is the backdrop with which GAA clubs have had to operate and continue to have to operate under.

It's all well and good criticising the GAA for not attracting enough Unionists, but it's easier said than done when you're up against such an archaic mentality.

Whatever the historical difficulties (both sides), or the gauldering of a few bucket-mouthed present-day politicians pandering to their vote etc, the fact is that nowadays Soccer on all levels receives widespread participation from the Nationalist population in all parts of NI, in direct converse to participation by Unionists in GAA, which remains at pitiful levels.

Yet the Report which is the subject of this thread completely ignores this.