The Empire is finished, no foreign lands to seize....

Started by johnnycool, June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM

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johnnycool

Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Eamonnca1

Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Oh he'll get his historical comeuppance too. WWII is sacred in the UK, but that might not last forever. Peter Hitchens, hardly a pinko leftie, has written about how the UK went into WWII not to save the world (and certainly not to save the Jews, if anything they did nothing to stop the holocaust when they could have) but to preserve Britain's status as a great power. Germany was bemused when the Brits joined in. They were like "WTF has this got to do with you?" WWII was originally an eastward-looking conflict. Hitler wanted to conquer lands to his east in order to feed the German industrial machine. Knocking France out of action was a prerequisite for his main objective which was capturing Eastern Europe.

The Western campaign was a distraction for the Nazis, and it ended up costing Britain it's great power status rather than securing it. It took Suez to get it into their heads that they'd lost it, although I'm not sure if it ever fully sunk in.

Main Street

I had a look at the list of statues monuments around Dublin city to see if an argument could be made for pulling them down or blowing them up as the case may be. There is only one that stands out  -The Wellington Monument -  dedicated to that  imperialist pond scum,  vassal to the East India Trade Company  the Duke of Wellington.   
Instead of knocking it down though,  I think we could make a few small adjustments and rename it "The Duke Ellington - BLM"

Orior

But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

johnnycool

Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.

Main Street

Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.
Welllington finally agreed to catholic emancipation in Britain and Ireland after O'Connell's party won all the seats and public opinion changed in favour in Britian. After passing the act they raised the bar for voting eligibility to vote, 

johnnycool

Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2020, 09:56:45 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.
Welllington finally agreed to catholic emancipation in Britain and Ireland after O'Connell's party won all the seats and public opinion changed in favour in Britian. After passing the act they raised the bar for voting eligibility to vote,

don't know much about Wellington but if what you're saying is correct then after passing the catholic emancipation bill upped the property threshold for those allowed to vote then he did so because he was forced to do so and like all good British diplomats attempted to circumvent the rules he'd put in place to give the air or decency when there was none.

I'd pull it down then.

Orior

Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.

I don't like it when we apply today's fashions to yesteryear. Bell bottoms and handlebar moustaches were great for the 1970's but not now.

In the same way, it was okay for sapiens to wipe out the neanderthals (albeit a few still left in Tyrone) but has anyone ever apologised?
Cover me in chocolate and feed me to the lesbians

Main Street

Quote from: Orior on June 10, 2020, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.

I don't like it when we apply today's fashions to yesteryear. Bell bottoms and handlebar moustaches were great for the 1970's but not now.

In the same way, it was okay for sapiens to wipe out the neanderthals (albeit a few still left in Tyrone) but has anyone ever apologised?
Only a few??

On Mitchel, he just didn't just avidly support slavery but the worst aspects of it, he was beyond the pale even in the deep dark South.
And just look at what happened to the Magheracloone Mitchells.








johnnycool

Quote from: Orior on June 10, 2020, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.

I don't like it when we apply today's fashions to yesteryear. Bell bottoms and handlebar moustaches were great for the 1970's but not now.

In the same way, it was okay for sapiens to wipe out the neanderthals (albeit a few still left in Tyrone) but has anyone ever apologised?

His views back then were detested by some of his fellow Young Irelanders so we're hardly looking upon his beliefs now with any more insight that his contemporaries.

red hander

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Oh he'll get his historical comeuppance too. WWII is sacred in the UK, but that might not last forever. Peter Hitchens, hardly a pinko leftie, has written about how the UK went into WWII not to save the world (and certainly not to save the Jews, if anything they did nothing to stop the holocaust when they could have) but to preserve Britain's status as a great power. Germany was bemused when the Brits joined in. They were like "WTF has this got to do with you?" WWII was originally an eastward-looking conflict. Hitler wanted to conquer lands to his east in order to feed the German industrial machine. Knocking France out of action was a prerequisite for his main objective which was capturing Eastern Europe.

The Western campaign was a distraction for the Nazis, and it ended up costing Britain it's great power status rather than securing it. It took Suez to get it into their heads that they'd lost it, although I'm not sure if it ever fully sunk in.

Never understood sacredness of WWII to Brits. They sell it as great fight against fascism, which is ironic considering they behaved like utter fascists in their empire. Red Army won WWII in Europe, nine out of 10 Nazi troops killed in war died on eastern front. More people were killed under the British empire than killed by Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot combined, with still plenty to spare. Don't forget who invented the concentration camp either. Bastards.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: red hander on June 10, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Oh he'll get his historical comeuppance too. WWII is sacred in the UK, but that might not last forever. Peter Hitchens, hardly a pinko leftie, has written about how the UK went into WWII not to save the world (and certainly not to save the Jews, if anything they did nothing to stop the holocaust when they could have) but to preserve Britain's status as a great power. Germany was bemused when the Brits joined in. They were like "WTF has this got to do with you?" WWII was originally an eastward-looking conflict. Hitler wanted to conquer lands to his east in order to feed the German industrial machine. Knocking France out of action was a prerequisite for his main objective which was capturing Eastern Europe.

The Western campaign was a distraction for the Nazis, and it ended up costing Britain it's great power status rather than securing it. It took Suez to get it into their heads that they'd lost it, although I'm not sure if it ever fully sunk in.

Never understood sacredness of WWII to Brits. They sell it as great fight against fascism, which is ironic considering they behaved like utter fascists in their empire. Red Army won WWII in Europe, nine out of 10 Nazi troops killed in war died on eastern front. More people were killed under the British empire than killed by Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot combined, with still plenty to spare. Don't forget who invented the concentration camp either. Bastards.
You know how they never shut up about the 1966 World Cup because it's the last time they won anything worthwhile? It's a bit like that.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 12:04:44 PM
Quote from: Orior on June 10, 2020, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 10, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
Quote from: Orior on June 09, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
But the Duke was born in Dublin, and helped implement Catholic Emancipation albeit after huge struggle when he and others decided they could no longer resist.

His statue in Glasgow is always bedecked with a traffic cone, lol

A bit like the current debate over John Mitchel.

Should we ignore their misdeeds or odious beliefs because of the greater good they achieved here in Ireland?

I'm not so sure.

I don't like it when we apply today's fashions to yesteryear. Bell bottoms and handlebar moustaches were great for the 1970's but not now.

In the same way, it was okay for sapiens to wipe out the neanderthals (albeit a few still left in Tyrone) but has anyone ever apologised?

His views back then were detested by some of his fellow Young Irelanders so we're hardly looking upon his beliefs now with any more insight that his contemporaries.

They were too much for many in the Confederacy. He was waaaayyyy out there even then.

J70

Quote from: red hander on June 10, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Oh he'll get his historical comeuppance too. WWII is sacred in the UK, but that might not last forever. Peter Hitchens, hardly a pinko leftie, has written about how the UK went into WWII not to save the world (and certainly not to save the Jews, if anything they did nothing to stop the holocaust when they could have) but to preserve Britain's status as a great power. Germany was bemused when the Brits joined in. They were like "WTF has this got to do with you?" WWII was originally an eastward-looking conflict. Hitler wanted to conquer lands to his east in order to feed the German industrial machine. Knocking France out of action was a prerequisite for his main objective which was capturing Eastern Europe.

The Western campaign was a distraction for the Nazis, and it ended up costing Britain it's great power status rather than securing it. It took Suez to get it into their heads that they'd lost it, although I'm not sure if it ever fully sunk in.

Never understood sacredness of WWII to Brits. They sell it as great fight against fascism, which is ironic considering they behaved like utter fascists in their empire. Red Army won WWII in Europe, nine out of 10 Nazi troops killed in war died on eastern front. More people were killed under the British empire than killed by Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot combined, with still plenty to spare. Don't forget who invented the concentration camp either. Bastards.

Its amazing how little known this is, how such a large proportion of the war, the atrocities and death in Europe occurred on what would come to lie behind the Iron Curtain.

BennyCake

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 11, 2020, 08:16:18 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 10, 2020, 12:47:23 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 09, 2020, 03:15:00 PM
Now the BLM has gained a bit of momentum in the UK and the pulling down of that slave trader statue in Bristol the establishment there are now having to look at their wrongdoings in the past and face up to them of sorts except Winston, he's an all round good guy and off bounds for critical analysis of his various misdeeds.

This is a great wee website tracing those involved in the slave trade and were paid off by the British taxpayer to stop their evil deeds.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/

Prentices in Newry and Armagh feature.............

Oh he'll get his historical comeuppance too. WWII is sacred in the UK, but that might not last forever. Peter Hitchens, hardly a pinko leftie, has written about how the UK went into WWII not to save the world (and certainly not to save the Jews, if anything they did nothing to stop the holocaust when they could have) but to preserve Britain's status as a great power. Germany was bemused when the Brits joined in. They were like "WTF has this got to do with you?" WWII was originally an eastward-looking conflict. Hitler wanted to conquer lands to his east in order to feed the German industrial machine. Knocking France out of action was a prerequisite for his main objective which was capturing Eastern Europe.

The Western campaign was a distraction for the Nazis, and it ended up costing Britain it's great power status rather than securing it. It took Suez to get it into their heads that they'd lost it, although I'm not sure if it ever fully sunk in.

Never understood sacredness of WWII to Brits. They sell it as great fight against fascism, which is ironic considering they behaved like utter fascists in their empire. Red Army won WWII in Europe, nine out of 10 Nazi troops killed in war died on eastern front. More people were killed under the British empire than killed by Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot combined, with still plenty to spare. Don't forget who invented the concentration camp either. Bastards.
You know how they never shut up about the 1966 World Cup because it's the last time they won anything worthwhile? It's a bit like that.

They always go on about their rivalry/hatred of Germany too. It's all one way though. There is no rivalry. Germany consider Italy, Netherlands, Spain and even Argentina far bigger rivals than England.