Author Topic: Oisin on talkback  (Read 2787 times)

imtommygunn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2021, 03:52:55 PM »
I do think you are right on that BC. The siege mentality is being created as we speak and the DUP are going to be nothing more than loyalist paramilitary puppets.

befair

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 232
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2021, 05:03:43 PM »
Equating nationalists with catholics is an error. Nationalists are increasingly secular

Solo_run

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 604
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2021, 05:11:39 PM »
The flag is an insecurity thing. It makes me laugh now tbh. When younger and I was brought up in a nationalist only area I'd not have seen them so for a wee bit they annoyed me but you grow out of it. Sure look at the crown roundabout in Larne. How could you do anything but laugh?

I would be in England / Scotland a good bit. You'd be lucky to see one flag on any visit never mind streets bedecked in them.

I have seen more Union Jack's in the North than I have living in England.

6th sam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 875
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2021, 06:32:57 PM »
There is a sense of identity you get with the GAA which you don't get with soccer. It's part of parish, who you are etc. Flying tricolours / playing national anthems has nothing to do with this.

very much so and that's the biggest selling point for the GAA. The community aspect.

Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.

It's what they've been fed for years by their political leadership unchallenged but once they do attend an event or go inside a GAA club they're apprehensive at first but once they see the walls aren't adorned with tricolours or posters of the proclamation at every cut and turn.
We run various weight loss initiatives and dementia workshops who pull in from all sections of the local community and you can almost see the surprise from the local protestants and ones moved into the area that the walls have pictures and of various teams on them and that the nationalist agenda isn't a big thing but irish culture like the sport, language, dance and music are more important.


For me a UI is more important than retaining a tricolour or AmhrŠn na bhFiann if it came to that.

Genuine question. If the volunteerism in the gAA is just down to community, why do community based soccer clubs usually struggle more with volunteers .
Gaa strength is not purely down to patriotism but I do think it has an effect in most clubs, It would be a high risk strategy to dilute that. We have had members from a perceived ďunionistĒ background in our club for years, we are proud of our irishness but itís not ďin your faceĒ, and is nothing to do with religion or politics. We welcome everybody , their background is irrelevant . It seems to work very well. Surely we need to embrace and respect difference rather than move to a neutral blandness . By way of analogy , are we asking for   A change of name of the ďRoyal Victoria HospitalĒ ? : obviously not, itís an historic name and is irrelevant to most people . If itís threatening and exclusive get rid of it, if itís historical , unique and non threatening , why remove it?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 06:35:00 PM by 6th sam »

imtommygunn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12402
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2021, 06:54:20 PM »
Tbh with the patriotism point and why soccer clubs struggle I do think you maybe have a point. I don't know what makes the GAA the kind of hub of the community as opposed to soccer but where I grew up and where family etc have grown up that's the way it has been. How it started like that I don't know but think there is probably historical reason for it.

Another factor is ownership of grounds too which adds to identity IMO. (We had no soccer setup where I am from so hard to compare why it hasn't the impact).

I don't find anything in the GAA threatening but not really about what I find. It's all about perception etc. There has never really been any move to get rid of royal type naming from anything.

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1713
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2021, 09:28:05 PM »
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome,  intimidated or offended or might think, well Iíll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.

Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA

How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didnít have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.

That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but whatís it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism)  , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and itís one of its strengths . Welcome  everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin   Why did outstanding athlete con Oícallaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!

If GAA canít thrive on its own merits then itís bucked either way.

Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they canít be arsed. Itís sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.

If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then thatís the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just donít think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1713
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2021, 09:33:01 PM »
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.

Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted

6th sam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 875
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2021, 09:54:57 PM »
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.

Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted

Would agree.
All ďProtestantsĒ I know either donít care , admire the GAA or are members of the GAA

johnnycool

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2890
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2021, 10:12:22 PM »
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.

Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted

I've had that said to me by a former boss from Larne but there is a certain level of ignorance within some of the protestant population as to what the GAA is about.
 

6th sam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 875
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2021, 10:25:16 PM »
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome,  intimidated or offended or might think, well Iíll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.

Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA

How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didnít have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.

That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but whatís it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism)  , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and itís one of its strengths . Welcome  everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin   Why did outstanding athlete con Oícallaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!

If GAA canít thrive on its own merits then itís bucked either way.

Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they canít be arsed. Itís sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.

If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then thatís the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just donít think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport

Being patriotic has nothing to do with a flag or an anthem for me, and doesnít have to be threatening . I think one of the mistakes being promoted in the North , is that everything must be neutralised , and if youíre not neutral youíre some sort of bigot , as opposed to respecting diverse identities and viewpoints. I follow GAA and soccer but only volunteer for GAA as I feel itís a positive manifestation of irishness and what makes us unique. Iím not saying thatís the case for everyone but many of the best GAA volunteers I know, commit partly because of irishness.
In my opinion itís simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA with the Orange order. As a prominent journalist once said ďthe difference is the GAA wants to include , the OO wants to exclude.Ē A unionist can be a GAA member , a Catholic canít join the OO.
The GAA is a unique organisation that thrives in this country , as an indigenous sport and community organisation. We should be wary of diluting those elements which have us punching above our weight. Positive uniqueness and cultural protection is important in any society .

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9124
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2021, 12:52:44 PM »
Is the interview available anywhere?

Tried Radio 6 counties podcasts on phone but no sign.

ardtole

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 791
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2021, 01:06:37 PM »
There is a link on the opening post.

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1713
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2021, 01:32:48 PM »
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome,  intimidated or offended or might think, well Iíll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.

Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA

How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didnít have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.

That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but whatís it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism)  , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and itís one of its strengths . Welcome  everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin   Why did outstanding athlete con Oícallaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!

If GAA canít thrive on its own merits then itís bucked either way.

Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they canít be arsed. Itís sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.

If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then thatís the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just donít think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport

Being patriotic has nothing to do with a flag or an anthem for me, and doesnít have to be threatening . I think one of the mistakes being promoted in the North , is that everything must be neutralised , and if youíre not neutral youíre some sort of bigot , as opposed to respecting diverse identities and viewpoints. I follow GAA and soccer but only volunteer for GAA as I feel itís a positive manifestation of irishness and what makes us unique. Iím not saying thatís the case for everyone but many of the best GAA volunteers I know, commit partly because of irishness.
In my opinion itís simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA with the Orange order. As a prominent journalist once said ďthe difference is the GAA wants to include , the OO wants to exclude.Ē A unionist can be a GAA member , a Catholic canít join the OO.
The GAA is a unique organisation that thrives in this country , as an indigenous sport and community organisation. We should be wary of diluting those elements which have us punching above our weight. Positive uniqueness and cultural protection is important in any society .

I agree that it is simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA and OO. Which is why I am doing expressly the opposite.

In my experience the driver around an interest in Gaelic sports is an interest in sports generally and specifically the ones you played. Nationalism will certainly be a driver for some but just donít see the evidence that this is a key driver.

There isnít really any need for flag, anthem etc.

I recall a number of years back a sponsor who operated in NI used a map of NI showing their outlets in the promotion of a county club championship. A few of our less forward looking citizens were outraged at the tangential use of a map of NI in anything promoting GAA. Most people just thought they were assholes. It was sport. A sponsor was helping. Just get on with things.

The assholes involved just kept repeating the mantra of ď32 county organisationĒ. There was no need for that politicisation and from what I could see most nationalists agreed
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 01:36:41 PM by smelmoth »

Rossfan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17943
  • Ballaghaderreen CO ROSCOMMON
    • View Profile
    • Roscommon County Board official website
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2021, 01:58:35 PM »
I got savaged by  2 doctrinaire types here sone time ago for expressing an opinion on national flags at sports grounds in the 6 Counties.
That same 32 County line was forcibly expressed.

In the 26 I'd estimate nearly 100% of Gaelic games players/volunteers etc are there because of an interest in sport and in many places gaelic games are the only serious sport played.
In many places young lads dabble at all sports as long as possible.
The patriot stuff went out from the 1960s onwards due to influence of TV and the end of the Ban.

Would I be right in guessing that Protestants playing Gaelic games in the 6 would be from apolitical not particularly unionist families??
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

smelmoth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1713
    • View Profile
Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2021, 04:44:42 PM »
I got savaged by  2 doctrinaire types here sone time ago for expressing an opinion on national flags at sports grounds in the 6 Counties.
That same 32 County line was forcibly expressed.

In the 26 I'd estimate nearly 100% of Gaelic games players/volunteers etc are there because of an interest in sport and in many places gaelic games are the only serious sport played.
In many places young lads dabble at all sports as long as possible.
The patriot stuff went out from the 1960s onwards due to influence of TV and the end of the Ban.

Would I be right in guessing that Protestants playing Gaelic games in the 6 would be from apolitical not particularly unionist families??

That last bit is probably right. There wonít be any hard evidence either way.

The 32 county organisation is just a line that gets trotted out. Itís not an answer to a question but a failure to answer. Itís a bit like the ďcommunity spokesmenĒ in loyalist areas up here and their frequent calls for a ďmulti agencyĒ response to crime, deprivation and lack of opportunity in loyalist areas. You ask which agencies they are thinking of and they are flummoxed. They use the phrase but have no clue what it is they are actually arguing. It must be addressed my ďagenciesĒ and there must be 2 or more. Leaves you with the distinct impression that multi agency means a fair share of the financial spoils between UDA and UVF so that there wonít be any falling out