Author Topic: Oisin on talkback  (Read 2803 times)

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2021, 09:04:29 PM »
Dropping the flag and anthem as a tactic to increase the chances of a United Ireland kind of misses the point

Does it?

Do you think it wouldn't be a 32 county Ireland under a different flag and national anthem?

What were the United Irishmen and all others fighting for before 1916 then? Was it less of a 32 county Ireland?
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smelmoth

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2021, 09:08:14 PM »
Middle class unionists probably won't have a huge problem with the anthem as they are likely to also be rugby fans and are down in Dublin for a lot of International games.

A few sweeping generalisations there. We will have to do better than that.

Anyway AmhrŠn na bhFiann is played half a dozen times a year at the rugby. Itís used a bit more often in GAA and in a lot of locations unlike a D4 day out.

Also I think we can aim a little higher than things people donít have a huge problem with

However, if there was to be a UI Unionists are going to be expected to drop GSTQ and I suppose the same would have to happen with AmhrŠn na bhFiann - regardless of whether it represents 90%+ of the island of Ireland.
Why is this being linked to a United Ireland at all? And I guess we are talking about making an effort before a United Ireland?

I suspect there would have to be a discussion about a flag that best represents a UI.

Again all this isnít about or after a UI. Why any need for a flag at all?



smelmoth

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2021, 09:17:07 PM »
Dropping the flag and anthem as a tactic to increase the chances of a United Ireland kind of misses the point

Does it?

Do you think it wouldn't be a 32 county Ireland under a different flag and national anthem?

What were the United Irishmen and all others fighting for before 1916 then? Was it less of a 32 county Ireland?

I donít think that what is talking about is a UI of any description. Thatís a separate issue. This is a question about GAA on the island of Ireland. Are the games to be bound to nationalism and identity or about sport and reaching out to the peoples of the island.

The offer to Protestants who be generous and genuine. And not a tactic to help engineer a UI. It should be about depoliticising rather than further politicising GAA

BennyCake

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2021, 09:31:12 PM »
What about his point about encouraging Protestants to participate in Gaelic games?

This isnít something that will change quickly but comments like Oisinís will hopefully open up discussion so that we can build a broad base of gaels who think this is a good idea. The second step is come up with practical options on how to achieve it and then to get going with those solutions

Probably refine that to Northern Protestants.


Its a very interesting one. When you think of the discussion about a United Ireland in the "General" area - and think of how unionists might be persuaded that in a UI they won't be trampled over and they will be a welcome party on the island - which may mean moderate "unionists" could vote for a UI if it was a compelling economic case - then the GAA is probably one of the cornerstones in making the case.


Would folks accept dropping the tricolour and national anthem if they knew it increased the chances of a UI within 20 years? Would that be against the charter of the GAA? Or would it be very much in keeping with what Michael Cusack et al were aiming for when founding the GAA?

I donít think thereís any need for the anthem at any match, expect maybe All Ireland finals, as thatís the national final. The tri colour isnít needed at any GAA ground, even Croke Park. The GAAís own flag should be flown.

The GAA promotes Irish identity, sport, culture, language, music etc. We donít need the flag. We already know who and what we are.

Solo_run

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2021, 09:39:47 PM »
Middle class unionists probably won't have a huge problem with the anthem as they are likely to also be rugby fans and are down in Dublin for a lot of International games.

A few sweeping generalisations there. We will have to do better than that.

Anyway AmhrŠn na bhFiann is played half a dozen times a year at the rugby. Itís used a bit more often in GAA and in a lot of locations unlike a D4 day out.

Also I think we can aim a little higher than things people donít have a huge problem with

However, if there was to be a UI Unionists are going to be expected to drop GSTQ and I suppose the same would have to happen with AmhrŠn na bhFiann - regardless of whether it represents 90%+ of the island of Ireland.
Why is this being linked to a United Ireland at all? And I guess we are talking about making an effort before a United Ireland?

I suspect there would have to be a discussion about a flag that best represents a UI.

Again all this isnít about or after a UI. Why any need for a flag at all?

Ok fair enough it did get a little political there.

However, I do agree with RadioGAAGAA there is an issue with flags and anthem used in the GAA that would be off-putting to protestants in GAA. Flags and anthems, will always divide rather than unite and more so in the North. If the GAA were to remove this, making itself a neutral and inclusive organisation to all people on the island of Ireland then I would suspect there would be an uptake in the sport amongst protestants. However, I would question how significant the impact would be.

imtommygunn

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2021, 09:44:20 PM »
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.

Solo_run

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2021, 09:59:05 PM »
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.

There would be a benefit in appeasing them because you are disarming them from having any sort of anti-GAA agenda. Once these issues they raise (mainly politicians) disappear you might see protestants think "They have done this to make us feel welcome in their organisation so let's give it a go".

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2021, 10:01:53 PM »
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.

Possibly, especially the grounds named after more recent republicans. But against that - many of the grounds are named after Protestants who fought for a United Ireland.

Whether the average Billy on the street will bother to make the distinction is a different matter...
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armaghniac

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2021, 10:04:33 PM »
Most grounds are not named after anyone contentious.
There is a broader issue, one of the strengths of the GAA is strong family connections. I used to send my 90 year aunt some clips on Cross' Rangers and point out that she knew the grandparents of those playing. In general, some clubs are a bit clannish. In addition, in the 6 counties the GAA has almost internalised the role it is given and while it would not tuen away someone going to state school or the like, it wouldn't attempt promotion in such places. In my opinion it should never assume the role of representing one community only, it might not get large numbers, it will rebuffed by bigots,  but the point should be made on every occasion .
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BennyCake

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM »
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome,  intimidated or offended or might think, well Iíll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.

Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA

6th sam

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2021, 11:16:13 PM »
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome,  intimidated or offended or might think, well Iíll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.

Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA

How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didnít have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.

That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but whatís it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism)  , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and itís one of its strengths . Welcome  everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin   Why did outstanding athlete con Oícallaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 11:18:13 PM by 6th sam »

Rossfan

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2021, 11:38:01 PM »
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?
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tiempo

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2021, 12:17:32 AM »
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?

Yes

From the Bunker

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2021, 12:37:17 AM »
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC7Xv7kHiZ4

6th sam

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Re: Oisin on talkback
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2021, 08:03:14 AM »
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?

Lol. Iím not saying that at all.
Iím just saying (The North, and Dublin GAA are the best examples of this) , a proportion of gaa members go the extra mile because of the ďIrish ď ethos of the GAA. There is a concern that if you dilute that, you may lose more than you gain . That said, In a new ireland all trappings should be up for debate- tradition/uniqueness versus inclusiveness .
As a popular sport GAA punches above its weight currently , despite not having the global marketing attractiveness and simplicity of soccer. There is a fear that if GAA had to compete against soccer purely as a sport, soccer has too many aces. However GAA has a USP ( unique selling point) that other sports envy. We should always look to improve our inclusiveness but should be careful about diluting the Irish dimension.