Rule Change Needed to Stop Puke Keep-Ball

[tonto1888]

Time to resurrect this topic after the ulster final fiasco.

1) shot clock
2) no backpass over half way line
3) at least 5 players on the offensive half at all times
4) managers that consider entertainment and not just results.

Full credit to Derry but for a neutral that was brutal to watch its time for change

lets be honest, it wasnt a fiasco

[Wildweasel74]

Hard game to watch but it was a contest to the very last second. Running late home to watch the Kildare game and it was dusted after 15mins, Dublin didnt have to do anything 2nd half. Kerry scored 28pts on Limerick, that unheard off, that game was shocking. Ulster have had 5 different winners in 10yrs and every county been in a final, maybe down south need look at why they so bad provincial wise.

[tiempo]

Hard game to watch but it was a contest to the very last second. Running late home to watch the Kildare game and it was dusted after 15mins, Dublin didnt have to do anything 2nd half. Kerry scored 28pts on Limerick, that unheard off, that game was shocking. Ulster have had 5 different winners in 10yrs and every county been in a final, maybe down south need look at why they so bad provincial wise.

In Leinster and Munster everyone has become subservient to Dublin and Kerry. The provincials don't need to change, counties need to get their house in order and up their game. The populations size is there in a lot of counties, and its not like they've a 50% unionist population that inherently tend not to play the games.

Monaghan is the fifth least populated county and they're at the top table, there's no excuse for the likes of Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Wicklow, Tipp, Meath, Down and Cork.

Kevin McStay has some cheek on him calling it hard to watch, he managed a St Brigid's team that played Cross in All-Ireland club and they refused to play football, they got the win they craved and fair play, but there's no point him virtue signaling about rule changes and the state of the game.

[onefineday]

It's now been a decade long problem. And the club game is still in the mire (in my county anyway). County game looked like it was moving forward but today will set it back again. It's the easy out for coaches. Being able to set up a team, within the rules of the game, to limit their opponents with no real requirement for skill, technique or intelligence, is such an easy out.

I don't blame coaches. I blame the rule book.

The balance of territory vs possession is not balanced in our sport. It needs realigned. Our sport will prosper when it happens.

Absolute agreement, rules need changed. I like the backpass rule, maybe combined with 2/3 players from each team in each half at all times.
It's worse at club than intercounty, where yesterday's problem was that unusually both teams were trying to do the same thing, leaving no opportunity to break at speed like Derry had done in their earlier games.

[general_lee]

I think what most people who want rules changes really want is a time machine back to the 1960s.

[thewobbler]

I think what most people who want rules changes really want is a time machine back to the 1960s.

No. The football of the noughties. That's where we need to get to. Not the 60s.

Those who don't wish rules to evolve are either a) from a county that is successful under the current rules and doesn't want a reset, even if it's for the best, or b) so institutionalised after a decade of utterly crap football that they now confuse a tight match as entertainment.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

I think what most people who want rules changes really want is a time machine back to the 1960s.

No. The football of the noughties. That's where we need to get to. Not the 60s.

Those who don't wish rules to evolve are either a) from a county that is successful under the current rules and doesn't want a reset, even if it's for the best, or b) so institutionalised after a decade of utterly crap football that they now confuse a tight match as entertainment.

Its a results business. Not an entertainment business and Derry are now good at the first

[tbrick18]

The Ulster final was a tactical masterclass.
What a lot of people seem to want is 15v15 playing in their named positions with a individual battles dictating the game.

From I was a child we were always taught that playing as a team would get better results than playing as individuals. The tactics yesterday were testament to that. It might not have been visually a classic on TV, but at the game it was exciting, it had drama, it had skilful scores and tackling alongside some amazing individual performances. Derry full back, marking arguably one of the best footballers in the country in the last 10 years in Michael Murphy scored 3 points from play.

For me, it feels like it is people who don't understand the tactical side of the game who are calling for the rule changes so that the game can be watched without thinking.

The Kerry and Dublin victories were more of a bore fest than the Derry one.
Why are people not looking at rule changes there to level the playing field. Maybe they should be looking at handicaps for Div1 teams v Div2 teams?
An absolutely ridiculous idea of course, but the point is there are so many "experts" complaining and calling for change after watching Ulster, but the same "experts" don't mind Dublin or Kerry winning their province in a nothing 20pt victory. Where is the balance?

One could feel that opinions are slightly biased.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

The Ulster final was a tactical masterclass.
What a lot of people seem to want is 15v15 playing in their named positions with a individual battles dictating the game.

From I was a child we were always taught that playing as a team would get better results than playing as individuals. The tactics yesterday were testament to that. It might not have been visually a classic on TV, but at the game it was exciting, it had drama, it had skilful scores and tackling alongside some amazing individual performances. Derry full back, marking arguably one of the best footballers in the country in the last 10 years in Michael Murphy scored 3 points from play.

For me, it feels like it is people who don't understand the tactical side of the game who are calling for the rule changes so that the game can be watched without thinking.

The Kerry and Dublin victories were more of a bore fest than the Derry one.
Why are people not looking at rule changes there to level the playing field. Maybe they should be looking at handicaps for Div1 teams v Div2 teams?
An absolutely ridiculous idea of course, but the point is there are so many "experts" complaining and calling for change after watching Ulster, but the same "experts" don't mind Dublin or Kerry winning their province in a nothing 20pt victory. Where is the balance?

One could feel that opinions are slightly biased.

People are, ie the end of provincial championships

[general_lee]

I think what most people who want rules changes really want is a time machine back to the 1960s.

No. The football of the noughties. That's where we need to get to. Not the 60s.

Those who don't wish rules to evolve are either a) from a county that is successful under the current rules and doesn't want a reset, even if it's for the best, or b) so institutionalised after a decade of utterly crap football that they now confuse a tight match as entertainment.

60s/00s same thing. I'm going to assume you don't actually play any more. I can tell you here and now there is not one senior county footballer who gives a fiddlers about how entertaining their matches are. Club players ditto, and I'm from neither a successful club or county. It's all well and good proposing rule changes but any realist (ie anyone still playing) will tell you that it will not result in the actual changes you want - just ask Jarlath Burns and anyone else with a fetish for highcatching how the mark are working out. If you need to satisfy your insatiable nostalgic cravings perhaps stick to watching your club's reserve side

[thewobbler]

A "tactical masterclass"?

You need your head seen to.

A game between evenly matched sides, ended in a draw, and the younger fitter team that is on an upward curve, won in extra time.

Without managers, without tactics, this would have been a close match, but it would have been entertaining.

So what have we (spectators, supporters, club people) gained from this "tactical masterclass"? I'll tell you what..... absolutely f**k all squared.

Outcomes haven't changed since Jimmy ruined football. It's just become exceptionally boring to reach the same conclusion.

Stick your "tactical masterclass" where the sun doesn't shine.

[tbrick18]

The Ulster final was a tactical masterclass.
What a lot of people seem to want is 15v15 playing in their named positions with a individual battles dictating the game.

From I was a child we were always taught that playing as a team would get better results than playing as individuals. The tactics yesterday were testament to that. It might not have been visually a classic on TV, but at the game it was exciting, it had drama, it had skilful scores and tackling alongside some amazing individual performances. Derry full back, marking arguably one of the best footballers in the country in the last 10 years in Michael Murphy scored 3 points from play.

For me, it feels like it is people who don't understand the tactical side of the game who are calling for the rule changes so that the game can be watched without thinking.

The Kerry and Dublin victories were more of a bore fest than the Derry one.
Why are people not looking at rule changes there to level the playing field. Maybe they should be looking at handicaps for Div1 teams v Div2 teams?
An absolutely ridiculous idea of course, but the point is there are so many "experts" complaining and calling for change after watching Ulster, but the same "experts" don't mind Dublin or Kerry winning their province in a nothing 20pt victory. Where is the balance?

One could feel that opinions are slightly biased.

People are, ie the end of provincial championships

Ok, let me re-phrase that then.
How does ending the provincial championship change the way teams are going to set up and play?
The only thing it will do is remove the chance of teams like Derry winning any silverware and move games like yesterday to a latter part of the championship. How does that improve anything for anyone?

[Estimator]

Any rule changes being mooted on here will easily be worked around by any decent manager or be v difficult to monitor, putting more pressure on referees.. The 'rules' would probably turn it into an even more negative encounter.

Shot Clock: Right lads every one back to defend when they have the ball. Force them to use up the time.

No back pass across the half way: Defenders in a line just inside their half, hit and isolate players force them to pass back

Keeping offensive players in opposition half: who is going to look at this, an extra match official?? Also gives a huge advantage to the other team when attacking, they can have 3 extra men who can attack across the half way line without anyone tracking them back.. ridiculous stuff.

Was at the game and it was a tight, tense encountered. Barely noticed the time passing. Plenty of atmosphere and noise where I was. I'd say that those at the game and not being influenced by the negativity from some of the commentary, would be amazed at peoples opinion on the match.

[thewobbler]

I think what most people who want rules changes really want is a time machine back to the 1960s.

No. The football of the noughties. That's where we need to get to. Not the 60s.

Those who don't wish rules to evolve are either a) from a county that is successful under the current rules and doesn't want a reset, even if it's for the best, or b) so institutionalised after a decade of utterly crap football that they now confuse a tight match as entertainment.

60s/00s same thing. I'm going to assume you don't actually play any more. I can tell you here and now there is not one senior county footballer who gives a fiddlers about how entertaining their matches are. Club players ditto, and I'm from neither a successful club or county. It's all well and good proposing rule changes but any realist (ie anyone still playing) will tell you that it will not result in the actual changes you want - just ask Jarlath Burns and anyone else with a fetish for highcatching how the mark are working out. If you need to satisfy your insatiable nostalgic cravings perhaps stick to watching your club's reserve side

Woah lad.

When you're older you'll realise that every generation of athletes tells themselves that they train harder , play harder, and are more dedicated than the ones before. They might even be right too... but the gap is never as big as imagined.

No successful team in ANY sport has put entertainment ahead of results.

But sports themselves don't become successful or sustain interest unless they provide entertainment. And where we ended up in Clones yesterday, for long periods of the match, was no more interesting or stimulating than watching men taking turns to carry a concrete pillar around a yard.

If the rules aren't changed soon by your dinosaurs, the players themselves will start calling for it to happen. The reason being? Empty stadia.

This will happen.

[tbrick18]

A "tactical masterclass"?

You need your head seen to.

A game between evenly matched sides, ended in a draw, and the younger fitter team that is on an upward curve, won in extra time.

Without managers, without tactics, this would have been a close match, but it would have been entertaining.

So what have we (spectators, supporters, club people) gained from this "tactical masterclass"? I'll tell you what..... absolutely f**k all squared.

Outcomes haven't changed since Jimmy ruined football. It's just become exceptionally boring to reach the same conclusion.

Stick your "tactical masterclass" where the sun doesn't shine.

So what you're saying is, regardless of tactics we'd have had the same result yesterday? Or in any game for that matter? Better footballers will always win?
If we make the comparison to the 00s as you've already stated you'd like to get back to, the widely held perception of Tyrone (and to a lesser extent Armagh) was that their tactics of a blanket defence (or puke football) resulted in victories against better players.

Just saying.