China Coronavirus

[Never beat the deeler]

I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Yes, but most of that it seems is because their health service has collapsed. So at low levels you are probably at 1.5% mortality but when it goes out of control and you crash your health service, you get 6%. Moral of story, act before the thing gets out of control.

I don't know if this would be enough to affect the mortality rate, but i heard somewhere that Italy has one of the oldest populations in Europe. Would mean more people susceptible

[Mourne Red]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

[seafoid]

I thought I heard on the news last night that Italy had a 6% mortality rate, now I had only flicked over and could have picked it up wrong, but if true is very concerning.

Yes that is correct. 6% in Italy

Yes, but most of that it seems is because their health service has collapsed. So at low levels you are probably at 1.5% mortality but when it goes out of control and you crash your health service, you get 6%. Moral of story, act before the thing gets out of control.

600 dead/10,000 cases exposed
It depends on how they count the cases. If they leave out less serious cases exposed the  mortality rate would be lower

For ages over 80 the mortality rate so far is 15%

[outinfront]

Basically both correct.  Measures weren't taken quick enough, the virus was in Northern Italy for a long time before it was detected and I think Italy has a large percentage of elderly people in it's population.  This means the healthcare service is on it's knees as it is unable to cope with the sheer volume of people needing Intensive Care (on top of what would already be a challenging time of year). 
Italy have a superior healthcare system to here.  In fact at any one time 95% of NI ICU beds are occupied.  So you can imagine that it wouldn't take too much to tip our system over the edge.  Hence the call to take stricter precautions now in the hope to delay the peak of the epidemic to the summer when hopefully the healthcare system can handle it better.

[LeoMc]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?

[Mourne Red]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?

Like this wasn;t happening before the virus.. Idiot

[APM]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly. 

[LeoMc]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn;t called a country lockdown for UK

I dont think (hope) you arent saying it isnt much to worry about that its mostly killing older people considering that would directly impact millions of people who have older relatives......you also forgot to mention the high volume of those sick that arent 'old' that it will also kill off.

All things considered if it hits these shores with the ferocity it has hit China & Italy then the old, sick and their relatives have plenty to worry about

Not to sound like a troll but you all realize people don't live forever? over 80+ has 16% mortality rate whereas 60 and under is less than the average of 3%

The health system is on its knees atm and in US they are wanting parts of it already and its in the shit - You obviously don't know how profitable healthcare is and that investing in a broken system and making it private would make someone extremely weathly.

Look at shares in pharmaceutical companies since the virus broke $$$

So basically, "we all have to die sometime Granda, it may as well be now in this hospital corridor because there are no Ventilators available"?

Like this wasn;t happening before the virus.. Idiot

Ah well, that's all right then. Health service is buckled so nothing we can do, eh.

[seafoid]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

The NHS has been run down over a a decade. It is way behind the Lombardy Health system in Italy.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/prepared-britain-coronavirus-pandemic-sophisticated-analysis/

Covering 195 countries, the GHS Index assesses countries' preparedness in six areas: prevention, detection, rapid response, strength of the health system, compliance with international norms, and the overall risk environment. It is in the latter three that the UK faces real challenges.Like many other high-income countries, the UK also has a large older population – 18.4 per cent of people in the UK are over 65, more than double the global average. In any public health emergency, older adults are especially vulnerable, but only Scotland and Wales have publicly available plans that address this issue.
When an outbreak does occur, the strength of a country's healthcare system and health workforce determine its ability to adequately treat the sick and protect health workers. And on this measure, the UK woefully underperforms thanks to chronic under-investment in the NHS.
While number two overall, the UK ranks 60th on healthcare access in the GHS Index. Among high income European countries, only Poland has fewer doctors per capita. Germany has almost half again as many at 419 doctors for every 100,000 people, compared to only 283 in the UK. The country also has less than half the hospital beds per capita of France, and only a third of what's available in Germany
in the past week, there have been indications that the government might be considering withdrawal from important mechanisms for information sharing with its neighbours, including the EU's Early Warning and Response System (EWRS).
This platform allows for the timely exchange of information to enable coordinated public health action, and played an important role in the response to outbreaks of Sars and bird flu. Simply put, diseases don't respect borders. The decisions made today will have direct and profound effects on the ability of the UK to respond to Covid-19 and future outbreaks.
Boris Johnson will be judged on whether or not his administration allows avoidable decimation of the elderly – and the not so elderly – and whether the National Health Service buckles in catastrophic institutional failure.
Korea has six times as many intensive care (ICU) beds per capita, and Germany four times as many. What we know so far from Lombardy is that 13pc of infected patients require ICU treatment, typically for two to three weeks.
The outbreak is already overwhelming the system in Italy's best equipped region. ICU patients are being sent to Tuscany because beds have run out

[APM]

By the way - I think you are right about Johnston and the NHS.  I'm sure they won't waste this crisis and this virus and the associated recession will give them the cover to have the hardest of hard Brexit - burn it all down and start again. 

[Solo_run]

So the virus is most contagious before anyone feels unwell. It is believed contagious people shed the virus for up to 5 days before the feeling unwell. I don't think it is going to be manageable anymore and would expect it to be deep rooted into society both in Ireland and UK.

[J70]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Old people aren't people.

Or something...

[BennyCake]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Yes you're right.

When it comes down to it, politicians and governments don't give two fiddlers f**k about any of us. Looking after their cronies in the banks and big businesses comes first.

[Keyser soze]

My own 2 cents, I don't think its much too worry about - It is mostly killing older people which if you see mortality rates in China/Italy compared to Germany (lower age population) is why deaths are so high in those countries. The stockpiling which has started is causing people to panic to get out to the shops so they have necessities, although the 10 bags of pasta the man infront of me had this morning was taking the piss a bit.

I do think the NHS will collapse (be allowed too) under the stress and it will be sold off privately why BoJo hasn't called a country lockdown for UK

I can't really square what you are saying here.  You say not too much to worry about and then you say that the NHS will collapse. 
Your post shows a terrible disregard for older people.  This disease is essentially spread by the fit and healthy population and the old and sick are like sitting ducks, waiting for someone to bring it into them.  Think about the fairness in that! 

This might seem a bit extreme, but I see parallels between this disease and the famine where ideology is put before the health of a whole cohort of people.  In the 1840s it was laissez faire economics was the order of the day and the British refused to intervene in the market despite the fact that Irish people were dying of hunger.  In the last few weeks we have seen Dublin and London put wealth before the health of the old and the sick with the governments prioritising free movement of people, lifestyle and convenience and an idealogical refusal to conduct proper restrictions and controls on people moving into the country. 

If the government doesn't lead, they can hardly be surprised when businesses don't put in place the appropriate controls and individuals behave irresponsibly.

Old people aren't people.

Or something...

And there is a negligible difference in the aged population percentage between Italy and Germany but both are much higher than China.

Hardly surprising that someone with such a callous and repugnant attitude towards the elderly would be basing their opinion on made up bullshit. 

[thewobbler]

People love to take it all back to money. Like somehow the world can turn without it.

Have you considered that in Italy - now being lauded here for its action - that the reason for the Italian delays, then regionalised lockdown, then full lockdown were also entirely related to money?

You just cannot shut a country down on a whim. There has to be an implicit trust between the population and the government that if the former follows the rules, the latter will protect them.

For 90% of us that means money can't run out (for mortgages and essential bills) and food channels remain open.

I'd fully expect that the Italian government started talking to the banks weeks ago.

Conversation 1, early days, went something like this: "you want us to freeze mortgage payments because a few people are sneezing in China?.... go and f**k yourselves"

Conversation 2, a while later went something like: "you want us to freeze mortgage payments because of some virus up north that isn't killing anyone?.... go and f**k yourselves".

Conversation 3: "yes we have seen the Walking Dead and we know there's no point in having the deeds to property if civilisation is coming to an end, but we are taking our chances anyway... so go f**k yourselves".

Conversation 4: "so you're basically saying we have to freeze mortgages or you'll force through emergency legalisation, then remove all banking perks and destroy us in paperwork forever, and let the world know the banks were behind all the delays ?.... well okay then, we freeze mortgages. But get ready for a lawsuit".

And with that final conversation, Italy can begin shutting down.

I'd be pretty certain the UK and Ireland are in the same boat now. Somewhere around conversation 3. But until mortality rates increase exponentially, nobody is going to number 4.

Call it greed, call it what you like. It's just how the world works. It's much easier to get the banks to agree than to force legislation upon them.