Author Topic: ANTRIM HURLING  (Read 5403215 times)

johnnycool

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39600 on: August 25, 2021, 04:01:45 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment

We's struggle for numbers more years than not and regularly would be delving deep into the next agegroups down to get 15 on the field, for instance our U17's will have eight U15's on it later this evening. That's the reality of small rural clubs year on year but what I tell our coaches when we meet a team made up solely 16 and U17 yo's  is that there's not a lot you can do about how a 14 or 15yo performs against a 17yo so long as our 17yo's are the best hurlers on the pitch then never worry about the scoreboard..


Milltown Row2

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39601 on: August 25, 2021, 04:24:06 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment

We's struggle for numbers more years than not and regularly would be delving deep into the next agegroups down to get 15 on the field, for instance our U17's will have eight U15's on it later this evening. That's the reality of small rural clubs year on year but what I tell our coaches when we meet a team made up solely 16 and U17 yo's  is that there's not a lot you can do about how a 14 or 15yo performs against a 17yo so long as our 17yo's are the best hurlers on the pitch then never worry about the scoreboard..

Exactly ....
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

burdizzo

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39602 on: August 25, 2021, 04:38:04 PM »
In the past I would have agreed, Milltown, that amalgamating is the easy - and worse - option. However, having been involved at underage myself, and in a club that DID amalgamate at underage, there's another side. On our own, we had barely had enough, and were always in the bottom half of the 'B' leagues. Now we have players from a nearby football club (who have no adult hurling outlet), and we're got to an 'A' championship shield final. So, it's about raising standards, too - and simply having numbers in the field at training can help in that regard, as well.

imtommygunn

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39603 on: August 25, 2021, 04:40:33 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment

We's struggle for numbers more years than not and regularly would be delving deep into the next agegroups down to get 15 on the field, for instance our U17's will have eight U15's on it later this evening. That's the reality of small rural clubs year on year but what I tell our coaches when we meet a team made up solely 16 and U17 yo's  is that there's not a lot you can do about how a 14 or 15yo performs against a 17yo so long as our 17yo's are the best hurlers on the pitch then never worry about the scoreboard..

JC maybe you should amalgamate with some of your neighbours  ;) I am sure Portaferry / Ballycran (delete as appropriate) would be glad to have you  ;D

Jonkunlon

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39604 on: August 25, 2021, 04:51:37 PM »
This isn't exact and I'm sure there are others, but in West Belfast alone there is:

Lower Falls  (2 clubs)
Upper Falls (1 club)
Glen Road (1 club)
Shaws Road (3 clubs)
Monagh Road/bypass (1 club)
Andersonstown Road (1 club)
Springfield Road  (0 clubs)
Stewartstown Road (1 club)
Finaghy Road (0 clubs)
Whiterock Road  (2 clubs)
Hannahstown/Old Springfield Road (1 club)

Would less clubs mean more clubs fielding 15 at under age? Given that many playing members are families with historical ties to the club, as opposed to players who live in the area (of which there are some). It's not clear cut.

johnnycool

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39605 on: August 25, 2021, 04:56:02 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment

We's struggle for numbers more years than not and regularly would be delving deep into the next agegroups down to get 15 on the field, for instance our U17's will have eight U15's on it later this evening. That's the reality of small rural clubs year on year but what I tell our coaches when we meet a team made up solely 16 and U17 yo's  is that there's not a lot you can do about how a 14 or 15yo performs against a 17yo so long as our 17yo's are the best hurlers on the pitch then never worry about the scoreboard..

JC maybe you should amalgamate with some of your neighbours  ;) I am sure Portaferry / Ballycran (delete as appropriate) would be glad to have you  ;D

whoever suggests that would be burned out of the parish FFS   ;D

imtommygunn

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39606 on: August 25, 2021, 05:14:42 PM »
 ;D

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39607 on: August 25, 2021, 06:53:26 PM »
This isn't exact and I'm sure there are others, but in West Belfast alone there is:

Lower Falls  (2 clubs)
Upper Falls (1 club)
Glen Road (1 club)
Shaws Road (3 clubs)
Monagh Road/bypass (1 club)
Andersonstown Road (1 club)
Springfield Road  (0 clubs)
Stewartstown Road (1 club)
Finaghy Road (0 clubs)
Whiterock Road  (2 clubs)
Hannahstown/Old Springfield Road (1 club)

Would less clubs mean more clubs fielding 15 at under age? Given that many playing members are families with historical ties to the club, as opposed to players who live in the area (of which there are some). It's not clear cut.

Far too many clubs

podge

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39608 on: August 25, 2021, 10:26:38 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment 
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment 

Extremely lazy analysis to imply that all amalgamations are people / clubs taking the easy option and shows an ignorance of the very real and genuine numbers in many small parishes and clubs.  There are amalgamations that most certainly are not the easy option, there are the only option.

Jonkunlon

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39609 on: August 25, 2021, 11:16:23 PM »
It is great to see another club wanting to grow, but is there not a wider question needing to be asked when we are seeing more and more clubs amalgamating up through the ages groups. Clubs that would be considered to be well established clubs and cant even get 15 of their own kids out to field a team?

does this not exacerbate this specific situation even further?

The work is just not being done at underage to keep young people interested. Based on the Belfast population alone there should be far more clubs, not less.

Then why are there so many amalgamated clubs at underage level?

I honestly think its easier to amalgamate than put the effort in and find the kids to be involved. If you have 12 kids and 12 kids from another club sure that's a team ready made with two coaches from each club at the ready. 

Now I'm saying that and we have a team mixed with another at juvenile hurling, and great hurling lads looking after it, I can go back a few years and I remember looking after our underage, Id at least three age groups for under 12, I'd lads at 9 10 and 11 all looking to get on, I was doing this by myself, running tournaments and heading to tournaments, the thought never entered my head about joining up with someone else, so I just ploughed on with that crowd, produced 4 or 5 seniors from that set up, one who have went on and played in Croke Park for the club in a hurling final and the other 4/5 have played in a county hurling final.

People look for success quicker, stick and develop what you have, you can't compete every year, the bigger picture is enjoyment

Bit of self awareness MR2. The decline of small clubs, especially in rural areas is a common trend up and down the country. Amalgamations are do or die in many cases. But it's ok you played players from 3 different age groups ........which is against the rules by the way.

Milltown Row2

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39610 on: August 25, 2021, 11:42:03 PM »
Wasn’t against the rules when I was looking after these teams, so you’re wrong on that part. I’ve also said that we have a current amalgamation at my own club, these are my views, I still believe you can make the numbers with hard work.

Nothing lazy about the effort I put in, at the time I made it work, the rules were different granted but the talent pool at proper age level was about 7/8 lads next grade down 5/6 lads and a couple of munchkins…

No one got hurt no one was being over worked the kids enjoyed it, the age rule has certainly brought on more amalgamations since it was introduced.

Was Sean Stinsons a needed amalgamation? Using them as a successful team that produced successive minor teams.. they looked to have plenty subs
Anything I post is not the view of the County Board!! Nobody died in the making of this post ;-)

Jonkunlon

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39611 on: August 25, 2021, 11:49:34 PM »
Wasn’t against the rules when I was looking after these teams, so you’re wrong on that part. I’ve also said that we have a current amalgamation at my own club, these are my views, I still believe you can make the numbers with hard work.

Nothing lazy about the effort I put in, at the time I made it work, the rules were different granted but the talent pool at proper age level was about 7/8 lads next grade down 5/6 lads and a couple of munchkins…

No one got hurt no one was being over worked the kids enjoyed it, the age rule has certainly brought on more amalgamations since it was introduced.

Was Sean Stinsons a needed amalgamation? Using them as a successful team that produced successive minor teams.. they looked to have plenty subs

I'm sure the coaches, players and parents of players at your club, working hard with their amalgamation, will be delighted that you think they are not working as hard as you did when you were a top coach......again practice a little self awareness.

Milltown Row2

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39612 on: August 26, 2021, 07:20:06 AM »
Top coach? If you can point out where I said that please? That’s 2 bits you’ve made up.

We didn’t win too many games, it wasn’t about winning and that’s my point. Amalgamations in Belfast for ‘big’ clubs shouldn’t be happening, clubs need to be doing what they years ago, working closely with schools.

As for own club and close friends coaching an amalgamation team that’s up to them, they’ve a vested interest with their own kids, my nephew also on the team, but I feel we could have still got 20 kids.

I’ve said this countless times on here that we still have too many clubs in Belfast.

Take a look at the Antrim website and the fixtures/results page, how many games at juvenile level are played weekly compared to soccer games? Where is the consistency, how can you develop and keep kids interested if there are only a few games a season?
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Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39613 on: August 26, 2021, 09:15:12 AM »
I think the games to training ratio at all levels in the GAA is something we need to consider but as Milltown says, for our kids it is the biggest barrier. Kids are being offered 6 or 7 competitive games in a year. Yet the soccer club up the road is able to provide a game every week for about 30 weeks on the trot for A, B and C teams.
Only for families rooted in clubs we’d be daffy ducked.

Agreed with games thing , only thing about soccer is that most lads stop in teens , massive drop out , worse than gaa

BigBallWeeBall

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Re: ANTRIM HURLING
« Reply #39614 on: August 26, 2021, 09:28:13 AM »
IMHO what Belfast hurling needs is a scheme or project to get more kids involved and provide coaching on the ground via primary schools etc... Sorry we had this and Gaelfast turned out to be a disaster show and consequently Antrim hurling will suffer and I'm sure eyes roll in Croker when Gaelfast is mentioned. From an outside of Belfast hurling fan I suppose with the correct people in charge this can be fixed.... MR2 are you interested...you have a good knowledge of the game and certainly have a good opinion of yourself.. Lol