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What's the craic with Ballycastle? Have they no football at all anymore?

There is not 4k playing Gaelic football, where u get that?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-60164401

Its a few years old now but around 4k is probably close to it.

That's the Derry City and Strabane council area. Not even remotely the same numbers as the city, and a large number not even in the same county.

What, the GAA heartlands of Newbuildings? Or Artigarvan with a population of about 200. There are almost 5k playing Gaelic football in the council area- shave off about 1k outside of the city. It isn't as if the areas have massive populations and Strabane would be primarily a soccer town as well.

I can't believe you've attempted to double down on that to be honest.

Just to clarify you think there are 4x more playing gaelic football in Derry City than in Strabane, Newtonstewart, Castlederg, Owen Roes, Glenelly, Clann na nGael, Ardmore, Slaughtmanus, Claudy, Craigbane and half of Banagher combined?

Fair enough my Maths is out. Way out.

Just on the chat about Derry City, what is the craic with Culmore Cú Chulainns? They were founded fairly recently in the city weren't they? Were they a break away from another club, or how did they come about?

The hurlers never really got going last week against Kildare, and are in all likelihood now destined to be relegation to Division 2.

Kildare took their chances when they got them, and despite Down having a much more competitive second half, it wasn't enough.

The last of the 'big games' tonight, away to Dublin. Dublin have cemented themselves as a top team in the country, and are not a second class team, shown by how they knocked Limerick out of the all Ireland, and whilst it's hard to see Down getting the win tonight, I'm looking forward to seeing how competitive down can be after a relatively good performance in Clare, and a great one against Wexford in Ballycran.

I do believe that in the coming decades, with the right work put in, Down can aspire to replicate what Dublin have done.

A couple injuries sustained to key players last week will make this harder than it has to be, but it is good to see McGrattan making his return.

The U20s were well enough beat by Antrim in the Ulster Final during the week. To me this emphasises the fact that we need an entire systematic change to try and bridge the gap between ourselves and the noisy neighbours.

Down hurlers shifted to Liatroim on Sunday at 12.45.

Not winning this v Kildare will all but diminish any hopes of avoiding relegation.

Kildare are going well so a big ask for the Down lads.

Antrim beating Carlow has really thrown a spanner in the works for Down avoiding relegation to Div 2.

This is a must win game today, and one I assume Down would have been targeting- but you could probably say the same about Kildare.

Kildare are in very good form, but Down put up a respectable enough performance against Clare the last day out- despite losing heavily.

Some of the Down players showed there were more than fit to compete with a team full of All Ireland winners, and I think it was a positive performance overall.

Not sure why the game is in Liatroim today but it certainly is a welcome change.

Good result for the senior hurlers at the weekend and a more than decent performance by the U.20 hurlers against Antrim. A shame for the minors and hopefully only an early season blip against Wicklow. Pity there's no chat about hurling, but only talk about Derry City and Limavady United over the last few days. 

Strong agree with this Squareball.

U20s had a good win against Wicklow yesterday.

Regarding the minors, Wicklow had a convincing win over Down yesterday, so perhaps this is a particularly strong side.

Congratulations to University of Ulster, Magee on winning the Fergal Maher Cup convincingly. See they had players from across the North and beyond on their panel, but a significant Derry representation.

I read they went undefeated this season, winning  by an average of 10+ per game. Some achievement for any team.

A huge task for Down today, away to the 2024 All Ireland Champions.

Best of luck to them, and to the Abbey in the MacCrory Final.

Best of luck to Aquinas in the MacLarnon Final tonight.

They won

Won convincingly. Fair play to them.

Best of luck to Aquinas in the MacLarnon Final tonight.

Considering the Abbey takes its colours from the Down county colours, it is fair to say it is a Down institution.

St Colman's similarly another Down institution.

Of course, goes without saying that both accommodate for those who come to them from the Armagh side of the Clanrye.

Interesting splash
Abbey play in red black and amber
Down play in red and black
Armaghs original colours up to the junior all Ireland  1926 were black and amber
So I think you will find that the abbey take its colours from the original county colours of both counties

Interesting observation. But the colours of a neighbouring county are not that relevant to the colours.

The black and yellow was originally taken as tribute towards Edmund Rice and his native county of Kilkenny.

The red was added for Down.

So I'll think you find this is where the Abbey take their colours from.

A great performance from Down today.

Heartbroken for them in the end.

Really, really, could have won that.

Not the same Wexford side that will go up against Galway and Kilkenny this summer, I'm sure, but for Down to put up the fight they did, was amazing.

It's well worth remembering, not that long ago, Down couldn't get near Meath in a Christy Ring Final. Today they were level with Wexford at the 69th or 70th minute.

Thought it was noticeable the speed at which Wexford operated at. If Down can maintain their status Div 1, exposure to that type of playing will benefit them no end in the long run.

Can't remember Ballycran being packed like that in a long time. Thought it was a good atmosphere.

I am obviously biased, but I did think Down couldn't get a free at times. Thought there was a momentum shift towards the end of the second half when Down had a clear 65, which was changed to a Wexford free out (for reasons I'm still not sure of). The momentum was well with Down at that stage, and the break give Wexford a chance to regroup a little.

Nonetheless, it was a great performance, and a great day for it. Clare in Ennis next week is a different beast, but there's plenty to be hopeful for about the year ahead after today's performance.

I know many were expecting a bit of a hiding today- not least myself. Pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. Well done to everyone involved today.

A massive test tomorrow, when Down welcome Wexford to Ballycran.

I would say the team named is about just as strong a team as Down could possibly put out.

Wexford were the last team outside Kilkenny to win the Leinster Championship, and it is great to see a team of that calibre coming to An Dún.

Whilst it'll no doubt be a tough day, it's great to see Down competing with the big teams again.

I understand that that is a fair bit longer than your average post, and it probably won't be read.

But I hope that it can answer the Wobbler's question as to why hurling people are into hurling. 

100%. He lost me after a couple of lines!!

Need to be more concise Mr Splash!

😎

Absolutely.

It was a very specific post; I would be more concise and avoid such a post in a typical discussion.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply Splash. Genuinely I'm not trying to wind our hurling fraternity up. Well, maybe only a little!

But I would explain that anytime I encounter suggestions for "forced" hurling, it does light a little fire inside me. You're very careful above to propose that what you would like to see is in no way compulsory, in no way forced through. So I'll not refer to it in those terms again, only to say that I still cannot help  interpreting "every primary school" as something that would require a dogmatic approach pressed hard from on high. It would require a stick, per se, rather than a carrot.

Why does this light a fire inside me?

Well I'll explain it from my current perspective. I'm entering my third consecutive season of under-14 football coaching. In that time I've worked with upwards on 60 boys across every ability range, from 5 distinct school years, the vast majority of them having started school life in Ballyholland PS.

Of those young players, north of 50 of them play competitive soccer.

Bear in mind these things. They don't get exposed to soccer in their primary school.  For the overwhelming majority of them, the same applies in post primary school. There are as good as no soccer facilities for them in Newry: all the clubs lean on GAA school AstroTurf for training. Even our biggest and most successful teams, with the exception of Newry City, have no club rooms for younger players. Every Saturday morning in life there's a procession of Newry parents heading to Lisburn, Belfast, Moira, Crumlin and Craigavon to play matches against teams of lads from many miles away, who they don't know, and as such don't have anything approaching a rivalry / bragging rights. Every season it seems half or more of them change clubs, often for a lesser challenge / guaranteed spot in a team. I've watched first hand that some of the coaching is very good, but game day messages, well they almost invariably applaud getting rid of it. Personally I find it hard to applaud a young lad for kicking a ball over a sideline but I'd guess my feelings on soccer are similar to yours on Gaelic Football; I do enjoy it but not that much. 

And to top all that, as a predominantly winter sport, they play most of their season in awful weather on heavy pitches.

Yet despite all these disadvantages (for boys in the Newry area), the lure of soccer actually seems to be growing year on year, even among the rural fringes where clubs like ourselves, Saval, Glenn, Drumgath are the cornerstones of the community.

So much so that we are a point that I would expect over half of the lads I've worked with would pick soccer every single day over Gaelic Football.

And while not ignoring the fact that the bright lights and marketing of the Premier League play a significant role, I fundamentally believe this growth is being driven by families. Parental influence is key.

Hence, I understand and even admire your determination that hurling can and will grow across our County with a sustained effort on influencing /recruiting players at a young age. But if Gaelic Football - even with all the advantages we've created for ourselves in these areas over the past 100 years -  finds it difficult to secure the hearts and minds of these young people, then the sceptic in me, just can't see it being the springboard for hurling that you can see.

Mainly because if parents aren't interested in hurling, then their children are unlikely to give the game the focus required to being them up to (anywhere near) the level of those who come from hurling families.

Even though it initially seems back to front, if you really want to change the culture of hurling in Down it has to be to find ways to cajole, snare, interest young parents and those about to become parents. Then the children have a half a chance.

——

Footnote 1: By adulthood, soccer is a hobby and Gaelic Games are a vocation. But our sports are becoming more vocational at an earlier age these days, which means may kids are naturally going to sway against, and I acknowledge I'm part of this problem.

Footnote 2: Gaelic football has two extraordinary advantages over soccer in the Newry area. The first being that we enjoy a summer sport, which far from guarantees the weather but it's miles above what soccer goes through. The second being that we provide proper home matches in the heart of our communities. It's a stepping stone for young lads to become important parts of their community.

This season our clubs have approved a calendar that sees under-14 football taking place every other week. Which means one home game a month over the summer for all these young lads. They might as well go to Lisburn every week.

Somebody please make sense of why this is happening, for I can't.

No problem, Wobbler. Happy to discuss.

When I say every school, I do mean every school, including those in Bangor, Donaghadee, Hillsborough, and other regions of the county.
But that is very much a discussion for another time.
Although I do think it would very much be a doable thing- if given the right preparation.
And very much the carrot rather than the stick, even if not everyone likes carrot...

I admire your dedication towards the Ballyholland underage setup. Fair play.

I am still not entirely sure why offering the opportunity to more kids to play hurling is lighting the fire in you, as you say.

I do appreciate the difficulties football has when competing with soccer in Newry.
I personally have zero interest in soccer, and wouldn't watch the World Cup if it was in my garden.

Regarding the status of soccer clubs in County Down, and the decisions made by soccer players regarding where to play and who to play for, I have no opinion.

I do appreciate Ballyholland in particular seems to find itself competing with soccer more than most.
My own club, of course, has players interested in soccer, but it would be nowhere near the same numbers as you describe in Ballyholland; I'd be very confident most would choose the GAA if asked.

Nonetheless, I don't see how this has any real relevance to the expansion of hurling. I appreciate it is another distraction, but I don't think that the presence of soccer is any more relevant to the expansion of hurling than the existence of basketball or tennis.

Football has any number of advantages- it has the tradition, it doesn't require much equipment, there are more outlets, etc.
But this does not mean hurling has no chance to grow.

It's also worth pointing out, there are folks who couldn't care less if football was forgotten about, and hurling took centre stage. They're in the minority, without doubt, but there are people out there with no interest in football who would love the opportunity to play hurling.

I agree that one of the key things is to encourage hurling in adults, not just children.
This is, if anything, an even bigger challenge.

It's challenging, but in Antrim over the past few years, the likes of Larne, Wolfe Tones, Lough Mór, and Loughbeg have all introduced senior hurling.
It's not easy, but it is incredibly beneficial and worthwhile, and funnily enough, it is easier done when a number of clubs introduce adult hurling at once.

Ultimately, I don't think anyone believes that hurling will grow rapidly or easily.
But as Johnny Cool said, I'm not sure how denying kids the chance of playing hurling at school will impact the Ballyholland U14s choosing between football and soccer.

I understand your frustrations if soccer were to overtake football in Ballyholland, but I don't think that because soccer is getting more popular in the area, that that's a good reason to prohibit hurling.
I believe Newry needs another sort of Archdeacon Hugh Esler figure to reinvigorate football in the region, but that is another discussion altogether.

I'm still not sure where you draw the connection between providing the chance to play the game to forcing it onto people, nor where you find enjoying hurling to be counter to human instinct. I assume 'us folks to take a wee step back,' as you put it, is a way of saying you don't want hurling to be an additional distraction, alongside soccer.
I'm still not really sure why the thought of people having a go at hurling lights a fire in you, as you say.
However, I understand that you are passionate about your club and your game, and I'm aware that there are challenges, obstacles, and distractions which you encounter.
And I wish you the best of luck in keeping the football going strong.

Hurling can and will grow, if given the chance and support, as we are currently seeing across Ireland (and beyond) at the moment.
It does not need to be, and should not be, to the detriment of anyone, any club, or any team. Least of all, the Wobbler's U14s.

I firmly believe growing hurling in Down would do the county a world of good. It never seemed to do Dublin much harm in the 2010s, anyway.
I believe even more that everyone should have a chance to try this great game of ours.

I understand that that is a fair bit longer than your average post, and it probably won't be read.

But I hope that it can answer the Wobbler's question as to why hurling people are into hurling. 

Despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary, I'll give the Wobbler the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're genuinely curious, and not trying to get a snipe in at the small ball code and its followers.

Firstly, I never said every Irish person would adore hurling if only they were exposed to it from a young age. That's a quare statement. Where did you pull that from?

I said we should be making efforts to introduce hurling into the primary schools in the county.

As it stands, out of the half a million people living in County Down, only those that are  born into an area serviced by 14 established clubs will have the opportunity to play hurling. Doesn't seem like great exposure, does it?

I'm not for forcing footballers to drop the big ball and make them play hurling, as some seem to fear may be the case. I'm for giving people the opportunity to play hurling. I never understood why people were so offended and disturbed by that idea, and I hardly think I'll ever understand it now. Unless you would be able to explain it to me, Wobbler?

In my opinion, every child should have the opportunity to play both games- hurling and football. Will every person who lifts a hurl and drives a ball fall in love with it? No chance. Should they be denied the opportunity to play as a result of predetermined geography? Sounds ridiculous to me.

The most important thing is to give everybody the opportunity to play hurling and camogie. Not to win All Irelands, not to win Championships, not to replace football. To have the chance to play the game.

In regards to success though (because we all surely want to see Down win, or we wouldn't be here on this board), there are, no doubt, many talented hurlers out there, but we'll never know, because they'll never have the chance to try it.

Shamrock's best player was a Burren man.
Warrenpoint's most influential player is a Rostrevor man.
Ballyvarley's main man is a Glenn man.
Even one of Ballygalget's key players is a Downpatrick man.

There are no doubt people who could do great things for Down Hurling, but becuase they happen to live in an area that doesn't hurl, we will never see it.

And say what you will, that if people want it they can seek it out, but you know fine rightly that it isn't as simple as that. Some of Down's most promising young hurlers are from Carryduff. If Carryduff hadn't introduced hurling in 2003, do you think all the parents of those players would have took them into Bredagh or further into Belfast? I doubt it, somehow.

No one is forcing people to play hurling. It is about giving people an opportunity to play hurling. But you seem obsessed that a stick will be forced into people's hands, so I'm not sure if I can change your mind on that.

You seem particularly upset with the idea of introducing it to EVERY primary school, as you say.

Yes every school. How many primary schools are in County Down? I don't know, but it isn't exactly hard to do, is it? Would you prefer it kept confided to the schools on the southern tip of the Ards Peninsula? I'm not sure why the idea of hurling being spread has upset you to this extent. Nobody has asked you to personally visit each school and give hurling sessions. 

You said hurling should grow organically. I can't think of a much more organic way of doing so that planting the seeds of hurling development at a young age and watching it grow.

This clearly has upset you. I'm not sure why. It is a perfectly reasonable idea that hurling may grow and it should be more widespread.

In regards to you other point as to 'hurling folk choosing to be chased around with sticks' and this not being a 'natural human instinct,' but 'normalised in Kilkenny and Waterford.'

I'm sure this is just another jab and an attempt to try and provoke hurling folk, but once again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you genuinely are struggling to understand the game of hurling.

The idea of hitting a ball with a stick is in no way unique to the people of Munster, Kilkenny, and the Ards Peninsula.

Iterations of stick and ball games have been played across the world, by humans, for millennia.

Hurling, hockey, shinty, and bandy are probably the ones that spring to mind. But the Native Americans in North America have their own versions of stickball.  On the other side of the world, in India they have Gilli Danda. In Inner Mongolia, in China, you will find Beikou. In South America, the Native population were playing a game called Palin, which the Spanish colonialists noted was similar to the game Chueca that they had in Spain. If you travel to Athens, you can go to the museum and see Ancient Greek artwork, depicting the game of kerētízein, and other, archeological records show stick and ball games being played in Egypt, Persia, and Ethiopia, a long, long time ago. 

To try and infer that the act of striking a ball with a stick is no more human nature than trying to drive a ball with your boot, is misinformed, lacking awareness, and ignorant.

Although I'd be happy to, I'm not going to get into an anthropological discussion about where hurling came from, and the relation of stick and ball games to the human nature. That is not what this board is for. No one here wants to read that, and I highly doubt you're interested in engaging in such a discussion.

But to say to take to the field and get chased by 15 people with hurls, is not human instinct, demonstrates two things; firstly, you don't understand the game of hurling if you think it is being chased by 15 people, and secondly, you don't understand human nature. To suggest people are obsessed with forcing a pigskin into a goal, as opposed to a ball of leather and cork, and one is natural behaviour and one is absurd, is ridiculous. My dog will chase a sliotar if I puck it, and will similarly chase a football if given the opportunity. That would tell me it's a highly natural animalistic behaviour, as opposed to solely a human instinct.

To say the stick-equivalent of these games do not share the same participation levels, is a meaningless comment. It is more effort to craft an appropriate camán, and can be even more effort to learn how to use one to any great effect.

To try and paint hurling as some ludicrous, unnatural behaviour, whilst you post on the internet, is ironic.

To try and portray the people of Kilkenny and Waterford as being desensitised to unnatural behaviour, for partaking in Irish traditional and culture, is disrespectful.

Nobody mentioned a single hour a week of coaching from a guest 'bumming and blowing' as you so elegantly put it.  Freudian slip? Maybe this is the type of coaching you were exposed to, but I'd like to strive for something better.

I would like to assume, if it was done, it would be done properly, and at the very least, introduced in a PE type format, and ideally, in a format similar to that which Dublin used to get to the stage they are now at.

I wouldn't call that an attempt to reverse human instincts. I've heard some daft anti hurling rhetoric before- but to call it unnatural to human instinct is going to take some going to beat.

Im sure you're aware that football wasn't really a thing until 1884-1885, when the game was created to act as a Gaelic alternative to soccer and rugby. Of course, 'caid' and various forms of football have been played in Ireland for hundreds of years, but to pretend that they are the same as the modern game is foolish.

Of course, hurling has changed greatly over the years, and is not the game it was when it was played millennia ago. However, it seems to have a better tradition on this island than football, with the modern rules of football ironically being influenced by the previously established rules of hurling.

I am not going to bash football. I quite like it. I've had some great days following the Down Footballers, and some not so great ones. But to try and act as though it is the most natural of human behaviour, and the act of anyone picking up a hurl could place it under threat, is a wild statement to make.

To try and chastise hurling people, ordering they 'take a wee step back,' and 'accept hurling is not a natural human instinct,' is a quare take. What do you think gives you the right to tell hurling people to know their place?

It's been 32 years since Down won an All Ireland. Which is sickening. But it's not like the footballers are in much of a better position than the hurlers as of late. Granted they won the Tailteann Cup, but the hurlers won the Christy Ring in that space of time, too.

At the end of the day, Down are Division 1 in the hurling, and Division 3 in the football. Even if you want to say Div 1B is a second division, that's still a level above the footballers at the moment.

Do you think that by denying people the privilege and the opportunity to play hurling, Down are going to win the Sam Maguire this year as a result?

Your own club has a proud camogie tradition, and has produced some fine camogs. I would be proud of all that they have achieved, including winning the Intermediate Championship this year. I wouldn't be slagging it off as unnatural behaviour.

I'm not sure why the idea of giving more people the opportunity to play hurling has upset you so much, Wobbler. I assume that maybe it's just one of those days.

Nobody is trying to force you to either play hurling, or enforce it, but I don't see why you think you should deny others the opportunity to be involved with it.

I would highly recommend you travel to Ballycran on Sunday to support the Down hurlers against Wexford. You may see how much hurling means to some people in County Down. I understand that Ballycran is a bit of a trek, and it all likelihood Down will get well beat.

Down will play Antrim in Páirc Esler on the 21st of March. It should be a competitive game and Down really do have a chance to win. It is our biggest hurling rivalry, too, if we're being honest. I'd highly suggest you go down for an hour to not only support the county in a local derby, but to see the work that is put in, to see the skill of some of our hurlers, and to see how much it means to the hurling people of An Dún. You'd be more than welcome.

And don't take that as someone trying to force you to enjoy hurling or indoctrinate you or demand you fall in love with the game. No one is trying to force your conversion to a hurling-supporter.

But I fail to see why you think we should be denying other people the opportunity to hurl, and why effort should be spent trying to stop those who are looking to grow the game and develop hurling in Down.