Messages

Derry absolutely are going to cause Down problems.

I think beating Down, Kildare, and Kerry, will be a step too far for them, but they're more than capable of beating those teams, and if I was McGarvey, I would absolutely be targeting the Down game.

I might be wrong, but the last time Derry came to Ballycran, Down were lucky to get out with the draw, as far as I can recall.

Still though, I think if Down are going well they're a bit ahead of Derry still.

Meath don't seem to be where they were a few years ago, but they'll not be any push overs.

Mackessy will be a big loss to Kerry, and I am very hopeful about what Down can do in that game, but there's still a number of other very skilled hurlers in Kerry-Mackessy never carried Kerry and I wouldn't sleep on them.

Hoping Down should have enough for Donegal and Tyrone, but it's probably worth giving Donegal the credit they beat Down in the McGurk final last year. But for obvious reasons I wouldn't look too much into that.

Anyway, a lot depends on whether Down start on a good foot or not. Hopefully they get the year off to a good start.

Down's league campaign starts this week at home to Kildare. Due to the restructuring of the league, two teams will be promoted to Division 1 next year- with Down, Kerry, and Kildare all favourites to go up.

Division 1 would be a big boost to the county hurlers, and it should be a very realistic target this year.

Kildare in Ballycran is the best we could have hoped for. Kildare have been something of a bogey team for Down this decade, but Down are well fit to handle them. Winning this game would really set things off in the right direction, particularly since I'd say our Ulster rivals in Derry, Donegal, and even Tyrone would be looking to make a big statement against us.

Kildare are really flying through the motions, and are doing a lot of things right. They will have similar ambitions to us.

Interested to see who is involved.

Some experienced heads in the likes of Kieth, Sheehan, and Conlan are still involved, which will be what we need against the likes of Kerry and Kildare. The Irish News says Ronan Beatty of Carryduff has committed to the hurling, and Niall McFarland of Bredagh is available after being injured last year.

Beatty is a great addition- he is like glue and the ball just seems to stick to him. McFarland is a top defender and very glad to see him back.

McGrattan from Portaferry was very good this year I thought and could be our most dangerous forward.

It has been a while since Down went into a league campaign as favourites, so will be interesting to see how they deal with that. I have no doubt they won't buy into it, anyway. There is no secret there will be a target on our back. This league very much is a mini Ulster Championship of sorts.

Regardless of who the opposition is, there is no one in this league Down hasn't beaten in the past few years in the league, championship, or preseason competitions. It's a big opportunity this year, but let's not get too far ahead. Kildare are a very good side and are constantly improving. Hopefully Down are able to turn Ballycran into a fortress once again and come out the right side of this one.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

I could be wrong, but the last time an intermediate winner went straight up to the senior championship was when Liatroim won it in 2022. Before that, Newry Shamrocks went up as winners in 2021.

Liatroim obviously are thriving at senior, and whilst it was a step too far for Newry, I don't recall any slaughter matches.

I understand why you're saying the winner of a group game being promoted seems too easy, but the problem is the two senior clubs coming down to contest a final.

If this didn't happen, the chances are this year Warrenpoint and Shamrocks would have played the final. Surely winning an intermediate final should give a team the chance to go up? But whilst there is this insistence of having senior teams slot in to play the intermediate final, it's going to effectively put a glass ceiling on our true intermediate teams.

I do understand where you're coming from. For me the solution is to remove the caveat of the bottom senior teams coming down.

I really don't see the benefit of the current system. It just makes things more difficult for the intermediate clubs. Neither the current system nor the proposed one seems like the best available one.

Off the top of my head, the most obvious would be An Riocht/Clann Mhúrn. Have a good underage set up by the looks of things, already camogie in the club, and there isn't a single hurling outlet for lads in that region of Down. Closest club for the area would probably be the Point or Hilltown which could be near a half hour drive each way.

Downpatrick would be another one.  Massive population and no hurling outlet in the town. Same could be said for Bryansford, but Downpatrick has the logistical benefit of being in a closer proximity to the majority of hurling clubs in the county, which would make things a lot easier. The Red High won a Mageean Cup a few years ago, so it wouldn't be that hard surely to build links with schools, etc.

I would say Darragh Cross. They had a relatively strong hurling team until fairly recently. Also field a camogie team. Wouldn't have the resources of other clubs, but there is a hurling tradition there I  think could be revived.

St Paul's in Holywood has an ever growing membership, and it appears to me that clubs in North Down are generally more receptive to introducing hurling than South Down clubs. Actually was having this conversation with a man from St Paul's about a year ago, and Holywood hurling is maybe not as far away as it seems.

St Kevin's is a club that exclusively field in camogie. I see no reason why they shouldn't also be a hurling club. I do remember hearing they wanted to start a hurling team a couple years ago, but the County Board said no.

On top of this, any club that has a camogie team I think really should have the ability to get 15 lads together to hurl. To the best of my knowledge, Mayobridge, Ballyholland, and Kilcoo all play in the senior camogie championship. Im not saying next year they could put out strong hurling teams, but the work is obviously being done at underage with the girls- surely it could be offered to lads too? Goes for every club with a camogie team.

Think there are a couple other clubs where hurling could be introduced- Glenn, Saval, Drumgath, etc.- but I think those clubs would be the easiest to immediately target first.

You'd be bound to get hurling going in at least a few of them with right work put in I'd say.

I agree with you, but I think Clonduff, Warrenpoint, and Newry Shamrocks might not be the greatest places to go because they depend on other clubs like Burren, Ballyholland, Mayobridge, Rostrevor, etc. Kilcoo players, would contribute significantly to Liatroim hurling .In a few years, Clann Mhurn ought to play senior hurling. To encourage hurling, coaches should be dispatched to the primary schools in Downpatrick, Newcastle, and Holywood.

Do Kilcoo men contribute heavily to Liatroim? Knew they had Kilcoo men hurling for them, along with a few from other places, but thought that by and large it was heavily Liatorim men.

Hurling clubs are always going to draw players in from non hurling clubs. I suppose you could make an argument that if enough lads are leaving a parish to hurl, there's enough interest to provide it in the home club.

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes Clann Mhúrn and Saul to actually field at senior. Hopefully it's not in the too distant future.

You're bang on, Truth. Coaches need to be dispatched to schools in Downpatrick, Newcastle, Holywood, etc. It's the only way to actually grow the game. You'd have to ask, what will actually make the County Board start to do this?

Obviously money, numbers, etc., are an obstacle, but there's surely a way to overcome these problems.

The work that Clann Mhúrn seem to be putting into underage is encouraging. They have come a long way in a short space of time. I see on social media Fergal was in Kilkeel taking a session for secondary school students over the weekend. I'm not sure if this a regular occurrence, but it's good to see more ages being offered a chance to try hurling, and whilst we're still a long, long way off a Clann Mhúrn senior team, things are looking bright for hurling in the Mournes at the moment.

East Belfast Seniors have been a very welcome addition to the hurling world and are going from strength to strength. Underage is obviously still not where it needs to be to be self sufficient, but they have been at blitzes in other clubs according to fellas I know coaching underage teams.

Obviously the challenges in promoting hurling in Clann Mhúrn v East Belfast are quite different, but who knows what way it'll go. 10 years ago if you'd have said there would be any underage hurling in East Belfast or Kilkeel you'd probably have laughed. We will have to wait and see.

Unfortunately agree with you about Shamrocks and the Point. You need some sort of conveyor belt. I believe we do have an Urban Development Officer now in Down- so hopefully there is some drive to promote hurling in the two towns.

Castlewellan seem to be the best poised to make a break through. Not only do they have a good squad at the moment, and indeed, an even better underage setup, but they seem to have created a real hurling culture around the club. This could well prove the difference.

Clonduff seem to be massively struggling at senior, but I'd say a year in Div 2 will do them well. Whilst hurling seems to have come on lots in recent years, I'm still not sure how close they are to making the break to senior. They seem to be in a limbo. Too strong for the junior championship, but not yet ready for the intermediate. I do think though they have a lot of potential to kick on yet.

The Ballela/Ballyvarley amalgamation seems strong, too, and I think it's interesting to see who reaps the benefits of that in the coming years.

You're spot on regarding commitments from coaches. They are often spread too thin. It's a lot of commitment and most clubs just don't have enough coaches.

Off the top of my head, the most obvious would be An Riocht/Clann Mhúrn. Have a good underage set up by the looks of things, already camogie in the club, and there isn't a single hurling outlet for lads in that region of Down. Closest club for the area would probably be the Point or Hilltown which could be near a half hour drive each way.

Downpatrick would be another one.  Massive population and no hurling outlet in the town. Same could be said for Bryansford, but Downpatrick has the logistical benefit of being in a closer proximity to the majority of hurling clubs in the county, which would make things a lot easier. The Red High won a Mageean Cup a few years ago, so it wouldn't be that hard surely to build links with schools, etc.

I would say Darragh Cross. They had a relatively strong hurling team until fairly recently. Also field a camogie team. Wouldn't have the resources of other clubs, but there is a hurling tradition there I  think could be revived.

St Paul's in Holywood has an ever growing membership, and it appears to me that clubs in North Down are generally more receptive to introducing hurling than South Down clubs. Actually was having this conversation with a man from St Paul's about a year ago, and Holywood hurling is maybe not as far away as it seems.

St Kevin's is a club that exclusively field in camogie. I see no reason why they shouldn't also be a hurling club. I do remember hearing they wanted to start a hurling team a couple years ago, but the County Board said no.

On top of this, any club that has a camogie team I think really should have the ability to get 15 lads together to hurl. To the best of my knowledge, Mayobridge, Ballyholland, and Kilcoo all play in the senior camogie championship. Im not saying next year they could put out strong hurling teams, but the work is obviously being done at underage with the girls- surely it could be offered to lads too? Goes for every club with a camogie team.

Think there are a couple other clubs where hurling could be introduced- Glenn, Saval, Drumgath, etc.- but I think those clubs would be the easiest to immediately target first.

You'd be bound to get hurling going in at least a few of them with right work put in I'd say.

Sorry Splash but surely it's not ridiculous to have your 6 best teams getting into the SHC. That's what the current system provides for. It also provides a pathway for the intermediate group teams to get there. That is how Carryduff got there- by beating a team that dropped down. If the intermediate group team is good enough, they will qualify.

No of course not- it's great we now have 6 teams in our senior championship.

However I do think it would ultimately benefit from having more teams, but we need at least 2-4 more hurling clubs in Down before that becomes realistic.

In regards to Carryduff managing to go through this system to senior, whilst youre obviously correct, the Carryduff/Shamrocks situation was not a fair reflection in my honest opinion.

Carryduff, for a wide array of reasons, were and are a stronger team than Shamrocks, particularly in the 2023 season. I would be very surprised if we ever see a senior team be so well beat by an intermediate team again any time soon.

(This is not to take away from Shamrocks, they are a good team but Carryduff are just further along).

Carryduff also got annihilated by Bredagh in that final, who also dropped down, which could be used to fit the narrative of 'if the intermediate team was good enough to come up, they'd beat the senior team in a playoff,' and say that they deserved another year in the intermediate. But instead Carryduff came up and beat Bredagh in the championship in 2024 and had a very competitive debut season of Senior Hurling.

Now obviously, most teams will not adapt to the Senior Championship as well as Carryduff have, but you have to give them the chance at least.

My biggest issue with the set up is the two senior teams dropping down to the intermediate. I wouldn't agree with letting one team drop down, let alone two. This essentially pre-determines the final.

I don't see why we don't have a straight promotion/relegation system. In the football, Longstone were relegated from the SFC, whilst Drumgath were promoted to it. No play offs, no senior teams entering the intermediate championship. I understand obviously the football championships have the luxury of 50 teams to draw from, but fundamentally it's the same idea.

I see the draw backs to it, and the obvious potential of teams yo-yoing, but I think the system in place at the moments leaves too many hoops for the intermediate teams to jump through.

It's incredibly frustrating because either way comes at a cost.

Teams like Carryduff need time to settle into the senior championship and develop, and them  having a few poor days and being relegated won't help.

On the other side, teams like Warrenpoint need a goal to strive towards, and significantly lowering their chance of winning a championship by having one of Bredagh/Liatroim/even Ballycran coming down to contest an intermediate final effectively stagnates the IHC.

It's a difficult issue to resolve.

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

It's not an ideal situation but the current Intermediate Championship system simply does not work.

Incredibly disheartening for the likes of Warrenpoint/Shamrocks to top a group only to have senior teams come down and play the intermediate final. The 3 players nominated for player of the intermediate championship played at most, 2 games each.

 I'm not saying that the intermediate clubs should be upset their players were not nominated for player of the championship, I'm just saying it reflects how the championship on a whole is received.

Shamrocks, the Point, Clonduff and Kilclief all played an intermediate round robin only for the final to be contested by Bredagh and Carryduff.

This is not to blame Carryduff and Bredagh- they are rightly taking their opportunities and the other teams need to try and get to their level, but it must be incredibly disheartening for players knowing two senior teams will in all likelihood be in the final.

The proposed system isn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting. It is the most even intermediate championship we've had in a while- the Point have massively closed the gap to Shamrocks, Clonduff will be looking to get back to where they were, and Ballela seem to be rejuvenated.

The only way any of these teams will continue to progress to the next level is more game time against higher quality opponents. Of course, any of those teams against Portaferry or Ballygalget will in all likelihood be a very lopsided affair, but in the long run, more exposure to higher quality level hurling should be beneficial.

It will lead to yo yo teams but we have that at the moment, and I think it's in the greater interest of the county's hurling scene to have these teams be yo yo teams as opposed to Carryduff and Bredagh.


It's not an ideal system, but the one we have at the moment is ridiculous and needs to be changed.

It must be very disheartening to go out and play an intermediate championship at the moment.

I understand how that might feel for the likes of Warrenpoint, Newry etc but winning a Down IHC might make you feel better until you go into the Ulster championship and get an absolute booting.

The other side of this conversation is that we need to be sending competitive teams into the Ulster championship, that's the level these intermediate teams need to get to or else they're realistically junior teams.

Would the non top 6 teams be better in the one level of championship, maybe two groups of 4 where the top one from each group meet the bottom two from the senior and the 2nd placed teams play off for a junior title?

Are Warrenpoint, Newry, Kilclief and Clonduff much higher of a standard than Ballela, Castlewellan, East Belfast and Ballyvarley?

Absolutely spot on about Down clubs performances in Ulster, but I would rather see us try and raise the standard of our Intermediate clubs to that of Carey, Carrickmore, Castleyblaney, etc.

Now how you do it is a complicated task, but ideally it would be great to get our clubs to that level.

On top of this, I'd argue it's not outside the realms of possibility our Intermediate clubs would struggle to win an Ulster Junior Championship. This is something we need to find a solution for.

I have heard a similar idea proposed before for the non top 6 clubs, and to be honest, there's a lot of merit in it.

We don't really have any real intermediate clubs in Down. Perhaps Shamrocks and Warrenpoint, but there's a massive gulf between senior and everyone else.

Armagh run a similar sort of idea I think, but we have probably too many teams for it to be run smoothly.

A few more clubs would do wonders for restructuring to be honest.

In regards to the standard of those clubs, Newry and Warrenpoint are in general a good bit above those clubs (Castlewellan beat Newry in the league and Clonduff gave Warrenpoint a scare in the championship but to be honest they are more exceptions than the norm).

I would actually argue East Belfast and Castlewellan are currently stronger than Kilclief and Clonduff. Both EB and CW will be in Div 1 this year whilst Kilclief and Clonduff will be in Div 2. CW beat Clonduff in Div 1 last year, EB beat Kilclief well in Div 2 to go up.

Ballyvarley are a bit off again, but they are capable of matching those teams on their day, although they took heavy beatings to both EB and CW in this years championship.

Ballela are very hard to place. Won the Junior Championship, but you never know. Rely very much on a few key players and their availability has a real impact. With everyone available, would probably be a dark horse for intermediate, but also wouldn't be a massive surprise if they were unable to field.

It's a very difficult set up to try and structure, but I still think the reward of promotion should be there for any team who wins their respective championship, regardless of how big the step is.

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

It's not an ideal situation but the current Intermediate Championship system simply does not work.

Incredibly disheartening for the likes of Warrenpoint/Shamrocks to top a group only to have senior teams come down and play the intermediate final. The 3 players nominated for player of the intermediate championship played at most, 2 games each.

 I'm not saying that the intermediate clubs should be upset their players were not nominated for player of the championship, I'm just saying it reflects how the championship on a whole is received.

Shamrocks, the Point, Clonduff and Kilclief all played an intermediate round robin only for the final to be contested by Bredagh and Carryduff.

This is not to blame Carryduff and Bredagh- they are rightly taking their opportunities and the other teams need to try and get to their level, but it must be incredibly disheartening for players knowing two senior teams will in all likelihood be in the final.

The proposed system isn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting. It is the most even intermediate championship we've had in a while- the Point have massively closed the gap to Shamrocks, Clonduff will be looking to get back to where they were, and Ballela seem to be rejuvenated.

The only way any of these teams will continue to progress to the next level is more game time against higher quality opponents. Of course, any of those teams against Portaferry or Ballygalget will in all likelihood be a very lopsided affair, but in the long run, more exposure to higher quality level hurling should be beneficial.

It will lead to yo yo teams but we have that at the moment, and I think it's in the greater interest of the county's hurling scene to have these teams be yo yo teams as opposed to Carryduff and Bredagh.


It's not an ideal system, but the one we have at the moment is ridiculous and needs to be changed.

It must be very disheartening to go out and play an intermediate championship at the moment.

Are there any challenge games arranged for this weekend or next week?

I think they're playing Laois next Saturday in Laois.

Any word how the hurlers got on?

Best of luck to Liatroim man Peter Owens refereeing the All Ireland Final today between St Lachtain's and Russell Rovers.

Great to see a Down man getting the nod.

This will be going back a long time now, but I'm sure someone here will know something.

Does anybody know the story about Clann Uladh and Faugh-a-Ballagh in Newry?

Obviously the clubs are long gone, but would be interesting to know the stories about them back in the early days.

Where did they play out of? Where did they draw players from? What areas of the town did they serve?

Did they ever exist alongside Shamrocks/Bosco/Mitchells?

And what happened to them?

To the best of my knowledge, Clann Uladh eventually either morphed into, or amalgamated with someone else, to form Shamrocks in about the 50s.

Faugh-a-Ballagh seem to have disappeared about the 40s or 50s.

Anyone know much about them? Assuming no one here ever played for them, but anybody have any relations or know anybody that was involved with them?

Did they just rebrand as Shamrocks or Mitchells or what was the story?

See they were very dominant in the early days of the GAA in both codes- be interesting to know the story behind them.

Am I right in saying there was also a camogie team in Newry called St Bridget's in the 1940s?

Newry has changed a lot in ten years, let alone 100 years, but old stories like these are certainly interesting.

Be tough for Slaughtneil to take today. Came agonisingly close.

Realistically, winning the league is very feasible, and gaining promotion to Division One should be the bare minimum.

Having Kildare at home is probably beneficial to Down. Kildare have been a bit of a bogey team in recent years, and it will realistically be between us, Kildare, and Kerry for who goes to Division One.

Derry should be tough- be interesting to see what happens Slaughtneil further into the season, and how this impacts the county team.

Donegal and Meath could be well fit to spring a surprise on us.

Be good to see Tyrone in Ballycran. I would imagine they have another wee bit to go before they can compete with the next level of teams in Ulster, but they do seem to be going in the right direction.

I know the league has been restructured, but it's great to see 4 Ulster teams in Div 2.

Will be an important year for Down as this is the first time in a while they will probably be favourites to win a league, with Antrim, Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, and Carlow all playing in Div One.

National Hurling League Fixtures, 2025:

25/01/2025- Round 1: Down v Kildare, Ballycran

01/02/2025- Round 2: Down v Derry, Owenbeg

08/02/2025- Round 3: Down v Donegal, Ballycran

23/02/2025- Round 4: Down v Meath, Trim

02/03/2025- Round 5: Down v Tyrone, Ballycran

08/03/2025- Round 6: Down v Kerry, Tralee