We have a lad in our club - Birthday is the 1st of January. To add to this he is a big lad also. He is every year playing with and against lads the guts of a year younger than him.
I have seen lads in our area thrive from Community Games Gaelic football - which has a August 1st start of point.
I have always thought that the GAA should have a competition where the cut off/Start off point that is the 1st July.
The underage groupings are a cluster f**k.
July 1st makes much more sense and for the majority it means playing against people in their own year group at school
Derry have gone that way this year. u7.5/u9.5/u11.5
Jan 05 playing a Dec 06 very hard on lads underage, especially u14-16
School years make far more sense. Think Armagh did it couple of years ago. 12.5, 14.5 etc.
Not saying to get rid of 1st Jan.
More to have another competition for 1st July.
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 07, 2021, 10:59:03 AM
School years make far more sense. Think Armagh did it couple of years ago. 12.5, 14.5 etc.
Did the Ulster GAA not stop them doing it? I think it should go by school years, Down have done it up to U11.5 now too. It makes an awful difference for lads to be able to play with their class mates at least to that age. I'd be up for it changing right through and the perfect opportunity was when the grades went to odd numbers. Could of reset the whole thing and held on to another few lads at 17s that maybe got lost in the switch over
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 07, 2021, 11:05:35 AM
Not saying to get rid of 1st Jan.
More to have another competition for 1st July.
Surely that's the perfect answer . U11 April-June , u11.5 July-September
I was born the 2nd of January, so getting those extra years playing at juvenile level when you are the oldest certainly has its advantages, but there will always be a date that someone will be feeling left out, I much prefer the school years myself, but benefited hugely on the fact of my birthday being the 2nd of Jan.
I thought there was a ruling coming in or a thinktank looking at this ?
Armagh moved to U13, U15 and U17 last year as that is the push from GAA Headquarters I believe? For me it is awful to split lads who are friends and in the same year in school.
Armagh have continued with the 1st of July in the primary school ages running with the U11.5, U9.5 and the U7.5.
Of course some kids are going to gain an advantage no matter where the line is drawn. I just feel that it is less pronounced when it runs along school year groups.
School years make more sense when considering keeping kids together.
But reality is no matter what date is picked there'll be someone nearly a year older than someone else. Doesn't matter if it's Jan or July. Changing the date won't fix that.
One could make an argument that the big kid born on 1 Jan has an easier time finding his feet in the game than the small kid born on 31 December. But one could also argue that the 31 Dec child would benefit from laying at a higher level and having to adapt more quickly.
I think natural size and natural athleticism are more important than birth dates to be honest.
The Book, Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell looks into this question based on a couple of underage teams in different sports. Bottom line wherever you start your "year" the older children will get the most benefit, because law of averages suggest the will be bigger, faster, more powerful than peers 6-12 months younger than them.
On which is the best model... School year for primary kids is a no brainer, kids want to play with their friends...
If I recall correctly there's a chapter in Soccernomics on this issue, with the entry point being why so many top soccer players were born in the same month(s). The authors' take was that being the older kid in your cohort meant you were (typically) bigger and stronger, which helped you stand out. As the kids move up through the years, stand-out kids get better coaching, and even moved on to better teams.
Quote from: City Dweller on June 07, 2021, 02:38:58 PM
The Book, Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell looks into this question based on a couple of underage teams in different sports. Bottom line wherever you start your "year" the older children will get the most benefit, because law of averages suggest the will be bigger, faster, more powerful than peers 6-12 months younger than them.
On which is the best model... School year for primary kids is a no brainer, kids want to play with their friends...
It should also work better in essence for secondary school kids as well?
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2021, 02:40:23 PM
If I recall correctly there's a chapter in Soccernomics on this issue, with the entry point being why so many top soccer players were born in the same month(s). The authors' take was that being the older kid in your cohort meant you were (typically) bigger and stronger, which helped you stand out. As the kids move up through the years, stand-out kids get better coaching, and even moved on to better teams.
The older lad gets more game time earlier. More game time earlier means getting familiar with match situations. Familiarity will bring on composure and confidence.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 07, 2021, 02:58:37 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on June 07, 2021, 02:40:23 PM
If I recall correctly there's a chapter in Soccernomics on this issue, with the entry point being why so many top soccer players were born in the same month(s). The authors' take was that being the older kid in your cohort meant you were (typically) bigger and stronger, which helped you stand out. As the kids move up through the years, stand-out kids get better coaching, and even moved on to better teams.
The older lad gets more game time earlier. More game time earlier means getting familiar with match situations. Familiarity will bring on composure and confidence.
Yep, that too.
Quote from: Taylor on June 07, 2021, 02:58:05 PM
Quote from: City Dweller on June 07, 2021, 02:38:58 PM
The Book, Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell looks into this question based on a couple of underage teams in different sports. Bottom line wherever you start your "year" the older children will get the most benefit, because law of averages suggest the will be bigger, faster, more powerful than peers 6-12 months younger than them.
On which is the best model... School year for primary kids is a no brainer, kids want to play with their friends...
It should also work better in essence for secondary school kids as well?
Yeap.. would dovetail into college sports well doing that...
I found it was for me. I wasn't great but was big for my age so I always got game time in my last year because I was bigger than most lol.
I personally think it is a nonsense rule tbh. Should be school years but then I guess how do you align the south and the north may be an issue.
Quote from: Taylor on June 07, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
The underage groupings are a cluster f**k.
July 1st makes much more sense and for the majority it means playing against people in their own year group at school
This currently happens in Down. You go from P£, P5, P7 to U13 where the maturity levels are somewhat more evolved and the peer groups are broken up slightly by going to different secondary schools.
Up to each county to implement their own strategy.
It's been statistically proven in soccer that being born in early months of the years gives a child a significant advantage. Appears to be stronger so gets more attention from coaches, easier to get on development squads etc. One of 1st things a coach should do is very aware of the dob of kids they train.
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2021, 05:05:57 PM
It's been statistically proven in soccer that being born in early months of the years gives a child a significant advantage. Appears to be stronger so gets more attention from coaches, easier to get on development squads etc. One of 1st things a coach should do is very aware of the dob of kids they train.
I always look at DOB of my players. It's essential to know.
Being born in Jan confers a significant advantage in any sport
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2021, 05:05:57 PM
It's been statistically proven in soccer that being born in early months of the years gives a child a significant advantage. Appears to be stronger so gets more attention from coaches, easier to get on development squads etc. One of 1st things a coach should do is very aware of the dob of kids they train.
In soccer, I thought the advantage was a September birthday as the youth cut off is 1st September?
Quote from: The PRO on June 07, 2021, 06:30:53 PM
Quote from: Itchy on June 07, 2021, 05:05:57 PM
It's been statistically proven in soccer that being born in early months of the years gives a child a significant advantage. Appears to be stronger so gets more attention from coaches, easier to get on development squads etc. One of 1st things a coach should do is very aware of the dob of kids they train.
In soccer, I thought the advantage was a September birthday as the youth cut off is 1st September?
In most countries that is the case, yes. In Outliers, Gladwell points out the skew of pro soccer players born in the last 4 months of the year, compared to the other 8.
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 07, 2021, 09:55:04 PM
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
"It's not the size of the dog in a fight that counts. It's the size of the fight in the dog."
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 07, 2021, 10:36:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 07, 2021, 09:55:04 PM
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
"It's not the size of the dog in a fight that counts. It's the size of the fight in the dog."
Ah yes, but some dogs have to fight harder than other dogs!
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 07, 2021, 09:55:04 PM
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
what you are describing is someone succeeding despite being 'disadvantaged' due to their birth month. It's not the same as saying there isn't an advantage. Nobody is saying you can't succeed if you are born in December - sure Steven Cluxton did ok for himself
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 07, 2021, 11:34:57 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 07, 2021, 10:36:14 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 07, 2021, 09:55:04 PM
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
"It's not the size of the dog in a fight that counts. It's the size of the fight in the dog."
Ah yes, but some dogs have to fight harder than other dogs!
Arra, how can they fight harder if they have don't more fight in them than in the other dog to begin with?
(Or something like that... I think. ;D)
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 07, 2021, 09:55:04 PM
I agree with thewobbler on this one. Natural athleticism and size are important, so too is the 'drive' to want to succeed. My cousin was born in December and managed to play hurling for Dublin due to all three of these - even though he wasn't the tallest either - he had that inner drive to succeed.
Anecdotal evidence I know, but that's what I tell those who have children who are born late in the year.
I think lots of things are important. But statistically the time of year you are born has a significant effect on your ability to "make it". The only point of that statistic is to make coaches aware of it so that they check out the dobs of kids they coach, in theory you could have 2 kids on same team 11/12 months between their ages and we all know how much kids can grow and develop in 1 year.
My brother was born on 1st January and I'd say it helped him a lot. He was significantly bigger, even for the older age groups, but having that extra year at underage was a benefit. He didn't stick at it much in senior but at underage he was outstanding. I was the end of the year, a week before Christmas, and I would have loved the extra year. The thing is though I still played 2 years above me so the flip side was that by playing with older players I got better myself. Once again, like my brother, I was very big for my age so was able to physically handle it so the skill development happened easier as I wasn't being buffeted about
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 08, 2021, 08:17:49 AM
My brother was born on 1st January and I'd say it helped him a lot. He was significantly bigger, even for the older age groups, but having that extra year at underage was a benefit. He didn't stick at it much in senior but at underage he was outstanding. I was the end of the year, a week before Christmas, and I would have loved the extra year. The thing is though I still played 2 years above me so the flip side was that by playing with older players I got better myself. Once again, like my brother, I was very big for my age so was able to physically handle it so the skill development happened easier as I wasn't being buffeted about
My story is similar to this. I was born early in January and won 4 G1 championships simultaneously winning POTY in 3/4 years. I have nothing to show for it now however as the alcohol and drugs got the better of me.
Spare a thought for a lad I coached who's birthday is on the 31/12.
Quote from: Rudi on June 08, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Spare a thought for a lad I coached who's birthday is on the 31/12.
You'd curse your Mum!!! FFS mum, all ya had to do was hold out!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 08, 2021, 03:06:26 PM
Quote from: Rudi on June 08, 2021, 03:04:51 PM
Spare a thought for a lad I coached who's birthday is on the 31/12.
You'd curse your Mum!!! FFS mum, all ya had to do was hold out!!
I used to curse her for not crossing the legs for a fortnight!
A friend of mine's brother was born in January and he was born in December of the same year! They played underage on the same teams the whole way up! My mate is mildly bitter of having this disadvantage the whole way through his underage playing days!
I was always very skinny growing up and being born in November just made things worse for soccer and Gaelic.
I filled out a bit in my early 20s but looking back, it cost me playing time for underage teams.
The cut off point has to be somewhere and if it's moved to July the people with May or June birthdays will face the same issues. However, I agree with playing in their school years and the half a season at each half an age group idea would be something that could help development.
I'm nearly sure that I heard something on the radio about this in the GAA a few years ago.
From what I remember someone doing a post-grad or a phd or something had looked at birthdays of intercounty squads and there was significantly more born at the start of the year versus those born at the end of the year.
Listen, it is a huge advantage being born regardless of the date.
The GAA should make it compulsory that everyone be born on the same date