China Coronavirus

[JoG2]

Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.

You've had the 2 jabs, take all precautions, adhere to all regs Ballad and go for it.

[Hectic]

But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing if over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for this coronavirus.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.

[Hectic]

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/

Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Reid also said 40% of people in hospital with Covid are below the age of 65 and of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.

I wonder how many are obese, have alcohol/liver issues and other underlying issues both self inflicted and as a result of poor luck.

As I said before these are the people who have been failed by advice, or rather lack of, about risk profiles.

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.axios.com/bmi-obesity-severe-risk-factors-covid-19-cdc-063fb142-234c-4654-98b1-de357fb8df87.html

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

[armaghniac]

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.

They were, we all told them to get vaccinated but they did not.

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

It is proper for society to act to protect the vulnerable, whether they be adults or children.

[sid waddell]

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?

[Hectic]

Perhaps if they were better informed they would have made different choices.

They were, we all told them to get vaccinated but they did not.

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

It is proper for society to act to protect the vulnerable, whether they be adults or children.

Sounds like a man who would burn his house down to get rid of a mouse in the kitchen.

[Hectic]

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?

Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.

[Hound]

But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing of over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for Covid.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.

You're the picking out a very small part of the document and ignoring every other part of it which contradicts your theory!

Can you confirm you were completely wrong and false saying unders 30s who are no vaccinated have lower positivity rates?

The data in the lower part of table 2 is not positive but is easily explained. One, unfortunately as a significant amount of people did not get vaccinated, Covid has not been eliminated, so the vaccine effectiveness in older age groups is waning, therefore boosters are needed. Also and impacting more on the stats is that the table only covers a specific 3-week period, so it does not take account of the unvaccinated who already tested positive.

But clearly as outlined in Tables 3, 4 and 5, the hospitalisation and death rate figures indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, and nobody with a brain who has reviewed these figures could conclude that vaccines are not a good idea.

As it states in black and white in the report:

The rate of hospitalisation within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age and is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to vaccinated individuals.

The rate of death within 28 days or within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and again is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to fully
vaccinated individuals.

[Hound]

Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.

The thing is everyone reacts differently. You could have zero protection or you could have loads.
You could get a blood test to see what your antibody level was like. That might bring some re-assurance but will probably cost money. Note though that a blood test / antibody test understates your protection level as it does not measure T cells, which is an important part of your immunity.

I think the airlines say that the air circulation in planes means that they are a safe environment. Not sure if that stands up or not. If the airline still insists on masks that would reduce risk. Also there'd obviously be a big difference to sitting directly beside a stranger for the duration rather than a relative who's in your bubble anyway.

[sid waddell]

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?

Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.

Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?

[Hectic]

But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

So you don't accept the data in table 2 showing of over 30 and vaccinated, significantly more likely to test positive for Covid.

However, you like the data confirming what I posted about positive impact on hospitalisations and deaths.

All contained within the same report but not all fitting your narrative.

Ladies and Gentlemen (and others), I give you confirmation bias.

You're the picking out a very small part of the document and ignoring every other part of it which contradicts your theory!

Can you confirm you were completely wrong and false saying unders 30s who are no vaccinated have lower positivity rates?

The data in the lower part of table 2 is not positive but is easily explained. One, unfortunately as a significant amount of people did not get vaccinated, Covid has not been eliminated, so the vaccine effectiveness in older age groups is waning, therefore boosters are needed. Also and impacting more on the stats is that the table only covers a specific 3-week period, so it does not take account of the unvaccinated who already tested positive.

But clearly as outlined in Tables 3, 4 and 5, the hospitalisation and death rate figures indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, and nobody with a brain who has reviewed these figures could conclude that vaccines are not a good idea.

As it states in black and white in the report:

The rate of hospitalisation within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age and is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to vaccinated individuals.

The rate of death within 28 days or within 60 days of a positive COVID-19 test increases with age, and again is substantially greater in unvaccinated individuals compared to fully
vaccinated individuals.

I said over 30s who are unvaccinated have lower positivity rates.  As confirmed by the data.

And as for all your waffle about how this might be.  Well we are comparing rates per 100,000 population by vaccination status so even if effectiveness is lowering it does not read well for the impact of vaccination on cases. 

You would want vaccinated cases to be much lower across all age groups. Not significantly higher.

And I didn't ignore the rest.  I was clear from the start about the positive impact on hospitalisations and death.

Look reading a few pages of this there is a noisy minority that seem to be affixed on the idea that the world should be vaccinated and the vaccine does everything from stopping you from dying to cooking your dinner.

It is this simple.  Vaccination has more or less peaked.  Do you want to find solutions for people who could benefit from risk profile advice and indeed vaccination or do you want to smash on with shameful vaccine apartheid and screaming about the unvaccinated.

Anyway I actually didn't come on here to go round in circles with the noisy minority.  My previous posts are all there so I am not going round on circles any more.

[Hectic]

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?

Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.

Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?

I am not against vaccination.  Rather I am for appropriateness, choice and an informed public. 

Anyway as with my last post.  Lot of what I am saying appears lost on some who seem intent on a pointless exercise of forcing people towards vaccination so will leave it at that and they can gang up on the next person who tries to propose an alternative solution to reducing pressure in our hospitals.

[Eire90]

so nothings change today

[sid waddell]

And to think we have people shouting for vaccination of children to protect adults.  Aside from being completely counter intuitive for humans to use children as a shield it is the adults themselves, in most cases, who could protect themselves.

You realise that we already vaccinate babies for lots of things, yes?

What is the ideological objection to vaccinating children of all ages for Covid if and when the vaccines are approved for children of all ages?

I can only think it would be an ideological objection to vaccinating children for anything?

Sorry I thought this thread was about the Coronavirus that has been encroaching on all our lives with its specific vulnerable groups.

Are you ideologically opposed to vaccinating children for everything, or just for Covid?

I am not against vaccination.  Rather I am for appropriateness, choice and an informed public. 

Anyway as with my last post.  Lot of what I am saying appears lost on some who seem intent on a pointless exercise of forcing people towards vaccination so will leave it at that and they can gang up on the next person who tries to propose an alternative solution to reducing pressure in our hospitals.

You're engaging in meaningless sloganeering. What you posted here literally doesn't mean anything.

If you're not against vaccination for children for everything there's literally no valid reason at all to be against it for Covid when it is approved for 11 and under.

[Hectic]

🙄