China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Hectic

Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Of course those are just the numbers and don't actually put the meat on the bones as to the reasons why.  Of which there may be many.  Perhaps including being cosied into restaurants etc with other vaccinated individuals.

The arguments for vaccination revolve around lowering risk of hospitalisation and indeed death and again the data backs this up at face value.  And again there needs to be meat on the bones as hidden factors such as contraindications due to already poor health may be at play.

So it looks like there is not a huge volume of unvaccinated winding up in hospital due to the profile of the unvaccinated (mostly young and healthy).

However a hospital bed is a hospital bed and preventing someone using one up is always the ideal approach.

As such I would advocate more emphasis on risk profile of the individual.  Because, in the age groups the majority of the unvaccinated belong, those winding up in hospital are often obese, have alcohol issues or other underlying health conditions.

I believe if anyone needs to be targeted it is the high risk individuals who are unvaccinated but do not understand their risk profile.

The vaccine passport and the salivating for it has confirmed what I have known for a long time re modern Ireland and where many within it are with regards where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for.

Hound

Quoterecent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

This would be news to most people that getting the vaccine increases the chances of you catching Covid! I don't want to outright call you a liar, so can you put up some reputable links to support this recent data?

When vaccines were not widely available, they were targetted at the high risk groups as you suggest. That made absolute sense.

However, now that vaccines are widely available, it's important that everyone is vaccinated, to both reduce risk of Covid, and thus and very importantly provide additional and very needed protection for the high risk groups.

Those who choose not to get vaccinated and thus increase their own risk of catching Covid which increases the risk of them spreading Covid to their friends and neighbours are selfish and certainly must have forgotten "where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for".


imtommygunn

Quoterecent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Do you have a source for that?

It the above is true it would be pretty major news...

lenny

#16593
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Of course those are just the numbers and don't actually put the meat on the bones as to the reasons why.  Of which there may be many.  Perhaps including being cosied into restaurants etc with other vaccinated individuals.

The arguments for vaccination revolve around lowering risk of hospitalisation and indeed death and again the data backs this up at face value.  And again there needs to be meat on the bones as hidden factors such as contraindications due to already poor health may be at play.

So it looks like there is not a huge volume of unvaccinated winding up in hospital due to the profile of the unvaccinated (mostly young and healthy).

However a hospital bed is a hospital bed and preventing someone using one up is always the ideal approach.

As such I would advocate more emphasis on risk profile of the individual.  Because, in the age groups the majority of the unvaccinated belong, those winding up in hospital are often obese, have alcohol issues or other underlying health conditions.

I believe if anyone needs to be targeted it is the high risk individuals who are unvaccinated but do not understand their risk profile.

The vaccine passport and the salivating for it has confirmed what I have known for a long time re modern Ireland and where many within it are with regards where they came from and what their ancestors fought and died for.

So you've decided to add more absolute drivel. Vaccination doesn't prevent you from getting covid-19 but it reduces your chances significantly. It also significantly reduces your chances of requiring hospital treatment if you do get covid. It is absolute nonsense to say that being vaccinated increases your chances of getting covid in a particular cohort.

Taylor

Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

It is generally accepted that vaccination does not stop infection and in fact recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.


Unless you can back this statement up with scientific facts I think its safe to say we can file it under 'drivel filling up pages'.

Hectic

So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.

lenny

Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.

Lol, around 80% of people over 30 have been vaccinated. That means that they're the vast majority of the population. That also means because there's way more of them there might even be more vaccinated people in that age bracket who've got Covid. That doesn't equate to someone who's vaccinated being more likely to get Covid. It's the complete opposite.

Hectic

In the absence of knowing how to share data shots here is a one stop shop from the UK:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

May I refer you to tables 2, 3, 4 from page 13.

And just for a bit of fun here are a few quiz questions.

Which county in Ireland has the highest vaccination rate?

Which county in Ireland has the highest infection rate?

Which county in Ireland has the 2nd highest vaccination rate?

Which county in Ireland has the 2nd highest infection rate?

The clue is there are only two answers.

And anyway back to my main point and that is this.  Those who remain unvaccinated have already made their mind up so you are not going to change their mind by shouting at them or discriminating against them.

Many of these unvaccinated will be at an extremely low risk of hospitalisation and many will already have natural immunity.

So for me the argument rests on impact on services.

We know the younger part of population is more likely to be unvaccinated and also be lowest risk.  But we know this is general and there will be high risk among the unvaccinated and of these many might not even know they are high risk.

So why have we not approached risk profile and steps to mitigate such a losing weight?  FFS have you seen the weight some people have put on during this while they should have been focusing hard the other way? And don't be peddling widely available vaccines as reason everyone should just go and get vaccinated.  That is a lazy argument at best and as already mentioned you are not going to change these individuals minds easily.

Oh and I think it is great that we now have so many unselfish people in society.  So much so I wonder why we have a housing crisis.  Surely all these virtuous unselfish citizens should be easily able to accommodate the homeless and some.

Hectic

Quote from: lenny on October 18, 2021, 06:26:46 PM
Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
So presumably you big blouses like data that shows vaccination reduces hospital risk and death risk but don't like data showing that those vaccinated and aged over 30 are more likely to test positive?

Apologies for my lack of familiarity with this site but someone remind me how to share screenshots.

Thanks.

Lol, around 80% of people over 30 have been vaccinated. That means that they're the vast majority of the population. That also means because there's way more of them there might even be more vaccinated people in that age bracket who've got Covid. That doesn't equate to someone who's vaccinated being more likely to get Covid. It's the complete opposite.

Apologies.  I should have said per 100,000 population but good to see you are sharp onto that as would of course be a very relevant point in the absence of detail from me.

general_lee

Quote from: red hander on October 18, 2021, 11:33:19 AM
See that bastard Hutchings has contracted Covid. Good chance he got if off one of those loyalist scumbags he kept hugging on his way into court. Oh, the irony.
Brown bread. Shame he didn't live to see out the rest of his trial

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 06:27:31 PM
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1019992/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_38.pdf

May I refer you to tables 2, 3, 4 from page 13.

Look at column 2 of table 2. Notice the inversion when comparing to column 2 of tables 3 and 4?

... and obviously look at columns 8 and 9 of tables 3 and 4.

Vaccines are (unfortunately) not bullet proof, but they do markedly reduce risk of serious illness.

Is that good enough? Probably not. But without giving people a mix up of vaccines to see if targeting different aspects gives better immune responses, we don't really have anything else.
i usse an speelchekor

seafoid

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1254185/

Speaking on RTÉ's This Week, Mr Reid also said 40% of people in hospital with Covid are below the age of 65 and of those in ICU 65% are unvaccinated.


"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Hound

Quote from: Hectic on October 18, 2021, 03:59:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on October 18, 2021, 10:21:25 AM
But people who are unvaccinated are more likely to catch Covid than people who are vaccinated, therefore, you are much safer eating in a restaurant that only allows vaccinated to attend.

Been a long time away and should probably have stayed away given this sort of drivel filling up pages.

recent data shows that out with those under 30 (the group at an almost zero risk of death from Covid) the vaccinated are significantly more likely to catch Covid.

Just to confirm that the link the drivelmeister put up himself proves this is completely and utterly false (table 2 page 13), as we all knew anyway.

But he did perform a very useful service.  Tables 3, 4 and 5 on pages 14-16 show clearly and indisputably just how valuable vaccines are, with hospitalization and death rates for the unvaccinated being multiples times in excess of the vaccinated.

Rossfan

Is yer man just a Gemmaroidbot who's been tasked with spreading anti vaccination sh1te?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

balladmaker

Due to travel international in a few weeks time.  The fact that I'll be 6 months since second vaccine then concerns me given what appears to be increasing discussion ref. the waning immunity within this timeframe.  Effectively I could be on an long haul flight with limited immunity ... a booster jab before then would be good, but that is a long way off.  So I've a decision to make ref. going or not.