Author Topic: Karadzic; genocide conviction  (Read 3242 times)

Bord na Mona man

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2016, 02:18:35 PM »
Agreed. When you look at the leaders who were tyrannical but actually managed to keep a lid on things in hotspot countries - Tito, Gadaffi, Saddam Hussein. Their misdemeanours were small buttons in comparison to the carnage that followed their exit. Deposing them is the easy bit...

Hussein used poison gas on his citizens, his misdemeanours were substantial.
Of course, but the sanctions on Iraq and the subsequent war killed far more people and seriously de-stabilised the country.

shark

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2016, 02:58:48 PM »
It's been festering for Centuries. I took a notion a few years back and read 3 or 4 books on the Balkans, fascinating and terrible stuff. If you come back in another hundred years the tensions will still be simmering.

Any recommendations for books on the Balkans?

Love Thy Neighbour by Peter Maass is a page turner. You won't be able to put it down.

Farrandeelin

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2016, 03:03:27 PM »
Must do a bit of reading on Eastern European history myself. Cheers for those recommendations folks.
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seafoid

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2016, 06:56:49 PM »
Must do a bit of reading on Eastern European history myself. Cheers for those recommendations folks.
microcosm, the history of breslau/wroclaw by norman davies  is very good as is after the war is over by giles mcdonogh.
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seafoid

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2016, 07:01:39 PM »
Eastern Europe has always lagged behind the west and always gets shafted eg the eastern front in ww2, the holocaust, the sex trafficking in ukraine today
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armaghniac

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2016, 07:23:16 PM »
microcosm, the history of breslau/wroclaw by norman davies  is very good as is after the war is over by giles mcdonogh.

Davies book is on my list, Polish history is an interest and I spent several weeks in Wrocław as a student. Where do you get so much time to read Seafoid, given that you are on here all the time?

Eastern Europe has always lagged behind the west and always gets shafted eg the eastern front in ww2, the holocaust, the sex trafficking in ukraine today

Not all of the Warsaw Pact was "Eastern" though, the concept of MittelEuropa has largely been lost.

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Main Street

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2016, 07:26:32 PM »
It's been festering for Centuries. I took a notion a few years back and read 3 or 4 books on the Balkans, fascinating and terrible stuff. If you come back in another hundred years the tensions will still be simmering.

Any recommendations for books on the Balkans?
Balkan Express by Slavenka Drakulic
Jesus i can hardly remember! The only book I have left in my possession is Kosovo - What everybody needs to know, by Tim Judah.  Fall of Yugoslavia by Misha Glenny. There's another I had and i cant for the life of me remember the name of it, swopped it for a book about Chechnya (to cheer myself up).
A well researched and accurate novel set in WW2 Sarajevo   The Pale House by Luke McCallin  is excellent,
´German intelligence officer Captain Gregor Reinhardt has been reassigned to the Feldjaegerkorps—a new branch of the military police in sarajevo.´
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-pale-house-luke-mccallin/1117225037

After that I wanted to read more but then I got distracted.





seafoid

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2016, 08:07:59 PM »
microcosm, the history of breslau/wroclaw by norman davies  is very good as is after the war is over by giles mcdonogh.

Davies book is on my list, Polish history is an interest and I spent several weeks in Wrocław as a student. Where do you get so much time to read Seafoid, given that you are on here all the time?

Eastern Europe has always lagged behind the west and always gets shafted eg the eastern front in ww2, the holocaust, the sex trafficking in ukraine today

Not all of the Warsaw Pact was "Eastern" though, the concept of MittelEuropa has largely been lost.
Mitteleuropa went with the hapsburgs and the jews and germans I think. The East lost too much ground after ww2. Germany was trashed in 1945 but look at it now compared to say hungary.
I read those books a while ago.
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Owenmoresider

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2016, 09:17:31 PM »
The BBC documentary Death of Yugoslavia is up on Youtube, great documentary work but chilling.
That really belongs in the great documentaries thread, an epic work.

Maguire01

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2016, 10:38:44 PM »
Great to see all these book recommendations - a subject i've always wanted to be better informed on, i'll be checking some of them out.

armaghniac

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2016, 01:28:16 AM »
The whole Austro-Hungarian empire is interesting, so many different groups and languages. The whole Balkan side is one aspect, but also the Polish/Ukranian side. I read a book by Anne Applebaum called ,Between East and West about that part of the world and she has also written some stuff on the Iron Curtain that is on the list.
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seafoid

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2016, 09:38:02 AM »
Konin is a good book about Jewish life in Poland
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Bord na Mona man

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2016, 03:03:09 PM »
The BBC documentary Death of Yugoslavia is up on Youtube, great documentary work but chilling.
That really belongs in the great documentaries thread, an epic work.
Another vote for this one.
This was great documentary series. Thankfully it had little of the lurid sensationalism that infects far too many latter day documentaries.
Also they were done at a great time, before Milosevic was charged, therefore he spoke fairly freely and also when the 2 other major protagonists Tudman and Izetbegovic were still alive.
What struck me about the Yugoslav war was the Milosevic and Karadzic were on our tv screens every night as quasi-statesmen, yet all during this time they were right in the middle of the butchering and ethnic cleansing directing matters.
What was also depressing was that it also highlighted how weak and ineffective the UN can be when pitted against a force that doesn't want to play nice.

StGallsGAA

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2016, 05:47:25 AM »
Quote
Agreed. When you look at the leaders who were tyrannical but actually managed to keep a lid on things in hotspot countries - Tito, Gadaffi, Saddam Hussein. Their misdemeanours were small buttons in comparison to the carnage that followed their exit. Deposing them is the easy bit...

Hussein used poison gas on his citizens, his misdemeanours were substantial. Tito certainly employed political repression, but after the WW2 chaos had settled nothing on the scale of Saddam.

For all his faults Saddam Hussein established the only secular society in the Middle East where women could enjoy 3rd level education and every citizen was free to practise their own religion. As dictators go he was nowhere close to some of the psychopaths the yanks put in power.  In Iraq the US destroyed the only non-Islamic state in the Middle East they now advocate throughout the region. t**ts.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 05:52:52 AM by StGallsGAA »

armaghniac

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Re: Karadzic; genocide conviction
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2016, 11:47:44 AM »
I think Jordan has made a reasonable effort without the excesses of Saddam.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B