Does anyone know when working from is been brought into legislation? Our company is bringing everyone back in August. 200 in the building with no option to WFH.
Consultation only finished beginning of May macker so I'd imagine it's not happening anytime soon although I did see something about it being introduced in September.
As well as that you've no idea what will be in it. There may be an obligation for the Employee to demonstrate they can reasonably complete their job description from home but the Employer may still have final say as to whether they will allow it to happen or not.
It's a tough call good luck with it.
Seems a very shortsighted approach in many ways. I doubt we've seen the end of Covid surges, even with Vaccines I'd say social distancing and WFH will be the cheap options employed to help combat surges.
What line of work is it?
I think in general from what I've been hearing and what is applicable to myself - is that companies are open to being a lot more flexible. There used to be the argument that you almost couldn't be trusted to work from home, but that's been proven wrong for the majority over the past year.
If companies want to hold on to staff, they'll have to be flexible with their approach. Some people actively want to go back to the office, whereas others are the opposite.
Quote from: screenexile on May 19, 2021, 10:16:20 PM
Consultation only finished beginning of May macker so I'd imagine it's not happening anytime soon although I did see something about it being introduced in September.
As well as that you've no idea what will be in it. There may be an obligation for the Employee to demonstrate they can reasonably complete their job description from home but the Employer may still have final say as to whether they will allow it to happen or not.
It's a tough call good luck with it.
Thanks 👍
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 19, 2021, 10:59:55 PM
What line of work is it?
I think in general from what I've been hearing and what is applicable to myself - is that companies are open to being a lot more flexible. There used to be the argument that you almost couldn't be trusted to work from home, but that's been proven wrong for the majority over the past year.
If companies want to hold on to staff, they'll have to be flexible with their approach. Some people actively want to go back to the office, whereas others are the opposite.
Food Co. The building would be sales and admin. Can understand certain people need to be in but to have no flexibility regarding WFH is frustrating . I think they may be waiting on the legislation?
Quote from: macker15 on May 19, 2021, 11:05:13 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on May 19, 2021, 10:59:55 PM
What line of work is it?
I think in general from what I've been hearing and what is applicable to myself - is that companies are open to being a lot more flexible. There used to be the argument that you almost couldn't be trusted to work from home, but that's been proven wrong for the majority over the past year.
If companies want to hold on to staff, they'll have to be flexible with their approach. Some people actively want to go back to the office, whereas others are the opposite.
Food Co. The building would be sales and admin. Can understand certain people need to be in but to have no flexibility regarding WFH is frustrating . I think they may be waiting on the legislation?
Are they not entertaining it at all? Have you had a conversation with them?
In fairness to where I work they made provision for anyone who wanted to work from home and only one person per office for those who stayed. I live 5mins away and couldn't hack wfh with the wife and kids there but since the kids have been back I've been working from home a day a week and I'd say a 3 day in 2 day home split will start becoming the norm whenever we do get back to normal.
Been WFH since March last year - work in Financial Services in Belfast. Been told that the bosses are looking 50% back in within the next month and the remainder likely when the government start encouraging people to go back. Don't understand why they've taken this approach and not even allowed some flexibility for people to do a 3 day office week which would suit most. Ultimately, it's a factor for many now and people will leave.
Our place has already formalised a "telecommuting" policy which will allow everyone who can do so, to work some time at home. I think it will range from 4 in/1 home for more senior people to 2 in/3 home for others. Of course it won't please everyone but it has been well received.
Very lucky as I've been able to work from home since last March. A survey went round with most preferring 2-3 days in the office.
I had to go in for the full week recently and you don't get as much done to be honest and most people I know are working more hours these days, so you would think where possible employers would want to keep it that way.
Even for savings on heating offices and other services costs companies are saving money not having people in. I'd still like the odd day in just from a social point of view.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 20, 2021, 10:36:28 AM
Very lucky as I've been able to work from home since last March. A survey went round with most preferring 2-3 days in the office.
I had to go in for the full week recently and you don't get as much done to be honest and most people I know are working more hours these days, so you would think where possible employers would want to keep it that way.
Even for savings on heating offices and other services costs companies are saving money not having people in. I'd still like the odd day in just from a social point of view.
Ah come on now.....
The wife works for a mortgage company in derry, with a few hundred working there , the vast majority of which are in the call centre. Since the start of covid the whole shebang has been working from home, bar a small team of 20, that have to be on site, due to posting and receiving mail. Now this was a place where ones would have been able to take the piss with sick days, and leaving early and that. She was at a meeting with the directors a month or so ago, and what they were told to their surprise was that productivity had not dropped at all with people WFH. Targets were still being met without managers breathing down peoples neck, projects were being completed quicker and sickness had dropped off a cliff. The company don't intend to bring people back anytime soon, but have asked for feedback in what people want. Most people want to go in the office a couple of days a week. I don't now why any company that has WFH capability won't embrace this going forward. Some forward thinking companies were already on to this and reaping the rewards long before covid.
City/town centre economy will be hit long term if WFH becomes the norm.
Quote from: general_lee on May 20, 2021, 02:12:28 PM
City/town centre economy will be hit long term if WFH becomes the norm.
True. But local economies would benefit.
We have been told when we go back minimum expectation is one day per week in office. But its pretty flexible.
You boys are having a laugh. I've been in an office the whole time. Not a one got Covid.
You are all at it.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 20, 2021, 02:38:42 PM
You boys are having a laugh. I've been in an office the whole time. Not a one got Covid.
You are all at it.
🤫 Don't go ruining it for the rest of us! My garden has never looked better.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on May 20, 2021, 10:42:49 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 20, 2021, 10:36:28 AM
Very lucky as I've been able to work from home since last March. A survey went round with most preferring 2-3 days in the office.
I had to go in for the full week recently and you don't get as much done to be honest and most people I know are working more hours these days, so you would think where possible employers would want to keep it that way.
Even for savings on heating offices and other services costs companies are saving money not having people in. I'd still like the odd day in just from a social point of view.
Ah come on now.....
I'm not joking. Loads of shitetalk and stopping and starting going on. I like to blitz into things and then flute around a bit at home all truth be told.
Our place is talking about going back in for 3 days a week. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. I had the nicest balance at home - 8 hours work, 8 hours for myself and the family and 8 hours sleep. I found things to be more productive working from home. The travel to work will now make that (12-4-8). The departments in our office were all grouped together and it created a laager like mentality in some areas which meant it was hard to progress work sometimes. It's been far easier to get in contact with people and have the 2 min discussion you might need using Teams. They are also talking of hot desking which I think will remove one of the main benefits of the office which is knowing where the person you need is actually sitting. It means that you're probably going to end up using Teams even if the person is in the same block.
Your commute is two hours each way?
So, in recent zoom meeting my direct manager had laid out plans for our department to return to the office in some capacity starting from next week...it would be no more than 50% of the team in and would involve coming in 2 days one week and then 3 the next...so 2/3 day weeks for now. Words were chosen carefully and it almost felt that they were just assuming people would comply rather than tell them they had to come in. Manager also said any queries could be raised outside of meeting. I emailed that evening and advised I didn't want to come in until I had my 2nd vaccine and requested that I return in August for proposed plan. No response from my manager all day yesterday and they know I'm off all next week too. Come the Monday when I return, would I be in the right to continue to stay at home given they haven't actually responded?
I'd imagine you'll have to get the go ahead from them first.
I'm sure you're not the only one with concerns, so it might take them a few days to sort through the requests.
Next thing the teachers will be asking to work from home. Chancers.
And after that the housewives
Quote from: JimStynes on June 05, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Next thing the teachers will be asking to work from home. Chancers.
Sure they spent half of last year working from home and the other half on holidays!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 05, 2021, 01:39:18 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on June 05, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Next thing the teachers will be asking to work from home. Chancers.
Sure they spent half of last year working from home and the other half on holidays!
They'll be looking to keep it that way. Bastards
Quote from: JimStynes on June 05, 2021, 12:44:13 PM
Next thing the teachers will be asking to work from home. Chancers.
🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏
Quote from: tintin25 on June 05, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
So, in recent zoom meeting my direct manager had laid out plans for our department to return to the office in some capacity starting from next week...it would be no more than 50% of the team in and would involve coming in 2 days one week and then 3 the next...so 2/3 day weeks for now. Words were chosen carefully and it almost felt that they were just assuming people would comply rather than tell them they had to come in. Manager also said any queries could be raised outside of meeting. I emailed that evening and advised I didn't want to come in until I had my 2nd vaccine and requested that I return in August for proposed plan. No response from my manager all day yesterday and they know I'm off all next week too. Come the Monday when I return, would I be in the right to continue to stay at home given they haven't actually responded?
Go in on the Monday you are due back and chat about it rather than not turning up and getting their back up or at the very least ring them first thing Monday morning and say as you hadn't heard back from them before going off, you weren't sure what the situation was. It sounds like your company are taking a reasonably safe approach which would be hard to argue with unless you have a clear reason for staying at home ie you are vulnerable and waiting on your second jab. Making a special case for you and not others might create ill feeling between management and other employees.
Moving to Tyrone soon but continuing to work in the outskirts of Belfast. Managed to negotiate 1, possibly 2 days a week from home. It's not the kind of job where wfh 5 days is possible due to the practical nature of some elements of it.
My commute is going to be about 55mins and there's a baby on the way so I'm delighted to cut the days down. Was working out, each day of the week where I work from home saves about £500 on fuel over the year.
Been reading elsewhere about how productivity is higher at home. Even the manager said this who tends to do a few days a week themselves. Have others found this?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 05, 2021, 06:38:24 PM
Quote from: tintin25 on June 05, 2021, 12:02:07 PM
So, in recent zoom meeting my direct manager had laid out plans for our department to return to the office in some capacity starting from next week...it would be no more than 50% of the team in and would involve coming in 2 days one week and then 3 the next...so 2/3 day weeks for now. Words were chosen carefully and it almost felt that they were just assuming people would comply rather than tell them they had to come in. Manager also said any queries could be raised outside of meeting. I emailed that evening and advised I didn't want to come in until I had my 2nd vaccine and requested that I return in August for proposed plan. No response from my manager all day yesterday and they know I'm off all next week too. Come the Monday when I return, would I be in the right to continue to stay at home given they haven't actually responded?
Go in on the Monday you are due back and chat about it rather than not turning up and getting their back up or at the very least ring them first thing Monday morning and say as you hadn't heard back from them before going off, you weren't sure what the situation was. It sounds like your company are taking a reasonably safe approach which would be hard to argue with unless you have a clear reason for staying at home ie you are vulnerable and waiting on your second jab. Making a special case for you and not others might create ill feeling between management and other employees.
I'll probably sent a follow up email later in the week, but the manager should really have been getting back to me. Like I say, I have no issue returning in some capacity but given personal circumstances concerning elderly parent I'd rather delay it until 2nd vaccine. Thing is, I don't see how it would create any ill feeling...there have been plenty of people in our place who have been happy to go back to the office and actually prefer it. I don't see why they couldn't have taken the approach of letting people decide for now. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle with regards WFH now. Question for any legal heads, if you were to request flexible working in some form and company rejected this (which is likely), do they have to have proper justification? I mean, surely if the last 18 months shows you can do a job from home and are as productive with no effect on business performance then you have a solid enough argument? Such a grey area it seems.
tintin25 - even when you get 2nd vaccine you can obviously still get Covid and transmit it, I assume your elderly parent is fully vaccinated ?
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 06, 2021, 08:03:35 AM
Moving to Tyrone soon but continuing to work in the outskirts of Belfast. Managed to negotiate 1, possibly 2 days a week from home. It's not the kind of job where wfh 5 days is possible due to the practical nature of some elements of it.
My commute is going to be about 55mins and there's a baby on the way so I'm delighted to cut the days down. Was working out, each day of the week where I work from home saves about £500 on fuel over the year.
Been reading elsewhere about how productivity is higher at home. Even the manager said this who tends to do a few days a week themselves. Have others found this?
Definitely higher at home for me as I work in an open plan area at work so more distractions. I have also been working longer hours and from chatting to people at work most people seem to be working to the time they used to get home at, not the time they left at.
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 06, 2021, 09:56:35 AM
tintin25 - even when you get 2nd vaccine you can obviously still get Covid and transmit it, I assume your elderly parent is fully vaccinated ?
Yes, they have both vaccines.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 06, 2021, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 06, 2021, 08:03:35 AM
Moving to Tyrone soon but continuing to work in the outskirts of Belfast. Managed to negotiate 1, possibly 2 days a week from home. It's not the kind of job where wfh 5 days is possible due to the practical nature of some elements of it.
My commute is going to be about 55mins and there's a baby on the way so I'm delighted to cut the days down. Was working out, each day of the week where I work from home saves about £500 on fuel over the year.
Been reading elsewhere about how productivity is higher at home. Even the manager said this who tends to do a few days a week themselves. Have others found this?
Definitely higher at home for me as I work in an open plan area at work so more distractions. I have also been working longer hours and from chatting to people at work most people seem to be working to the time they used to get home at, not the time they left at.
Definitely get more done at home myself but everyone is different. Others can't differentiate between work/home and need to be the office. I'd rather work until 6pm in my own home than be an office until that time in the city centre, that's for sure.
Quote from: tintin25 on June 06, 2021, 10:51:36 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 06, 2021, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 06, 2021, 08:03:35 AM
Moving to Tyrone soon but continuing to work in the outskirts of Belfast. Managed to negotiate 1, possibly 2 days a week from home. It's not the kind of job where wfh 5 days is possible due to the practical nature of some elements of it.
My commute is going to be about 55mins and there's a baby on the way so I'm delighted to cut the days down. Was working out, each day of the week where I work from home saves about £500 on fuel over the year.
Been reading elsewhere about how productivity is higher at home. Even the manager said this who tends to do a few days a week themselves. Have others found this?
Definitely higher at home for me as I work in an open plan area at work so more distractions. I have also been working longer hours and from chatting to people at work most people seem to be working to the time they used to get home at, not the time they left at.
Definitely get more done at home myself but everyone is different. Others can't differentiate between work/home and need to be the office. I'd rather work until 6pm in my own home than be an office until that time in the city centre, that's for sure.
Absolutely more productive from home. I clock in and clock out at the same time as I would in work but take a shorter lunch break. Converted the garage to an office so my work and home life are differentiated. Still have the water cooler chats but as it's over MS teams I can i ignore the call and then arrange a time for the chat. More control over the day. We are currently slowing reintegrating back to the office but my plan is to go max 2 days a week. I'm in hearings 2-3 days a week anyway so wouldn't be in the office anyway.
I have been working from home since March 2020.
Productivity is better. If meetings are pointless you don't have to stay in a meeting room. You can get other work done.
Making your own lunch is another advantage. I don't miss the crisps.
One disadvantage is that I only talk to people in my team or in management calls. I used to chat to other people in real life pre WFH.
I'm lucky to have a job suited to WFH
.i feel sorry for people working in airlines, the hotel sector etc.
Leo push for earlier return to office
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-pushing-for-early-returnto-officesin-august-40513640.html
Quote from: macker15 on June 08, 2021, 09:09:00 AM
Leo push for earlier return to office
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-pushing-for-early-returnto-officesin-august-40513640.html
Office block landlords need people back in their buildings, that's the big driving force there
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on June 08, 2021, 09:50:31 AM
Quote from: macker15 on June 08, 2021, 09:09:00 AM
Leo push for earlier return to office
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-pushing-for-early-returnto-officesin-august-40513640.html
Office block landlords need people back in their buildings, that's the big driving force there
I think shops in City Centres could be doing with footfall. Landlords won't really care. Office space will be repurposed if it becomes vacant.
Personally I think working from home is shite. You be bored stiff. Don't get me wrong a day a week is grand... but long term no chance.
Quote from: trailer on June 08, 2021, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on June 08, 2021, 09:50:31 AM
Quote from: macker15 on June 08, 2021, 09:09:00 AM
Leo push for earlier return to office
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tanaiste-leo-varadkar-pushing-for-early-returnto-officesin-august-40513640.html
Office block landlords need people back in their buildings, that's the big driving force there
I think shops in City Centres could be doing with footfall. Landlords won't really care. Office space will be repurposed if it becomes vacant.
Personally I think working from home is shite. You be bored stiff. Don't get me wrong a day a week is grand... but long term no chance.
I'd agree. It didn't do it for me either but I don't have much of a commute. If I was still doing an hour each way I might be looking at it differently.
Last couple of points are the main crux of this whole debate.
There needs to be that flexibility for those who want to return to the office and for those that dont.
Most people have proved that the work can actually be done remotely and there is no real need for the office full time at least. But there are also people who need the office for more than just work purposes, it is their social life and they need the interaction.
Employers need to work with staff to accommodate both as far is possible.
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Quote from: gallsman on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Your commute is two hours each way?
I live in Newbridge and work in Ballsbridge - leave the house at 7 to drive to the railway station - get 7.20 train to Grand Canal Dock - get into work about 08:40. Leave at 5 and get home at 6:50 so essentially 12 hours away from home.
We'll be returning in July and going foward it will be a minimum of 1 day or a maximum of 3 days in the office. Permanently going forward.
Survey in my place again and it's 2/ 3 days max in the office for the vast majority.
Anyone who had a big commute would prefer 2 days at home. Even if it was all midweek in work and Monday and Friday at home. The micro-managers probably don't like it though.
Was just chatting too re workplace bullying. Surely it is down as the little aggressions tend to be face to face and they can't do that online as freely.
Like if you can do your job well wherever you are that's the main thing.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 09, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Your commute is two hours each way?
I live in Newbridge and work in Ballsbridge - leave the house at 7 to drive to the railway station - get 7.20 train to Grand Canal Dock - get into work about 08:40. Leave at 5 and get home at 6:50 so essentially 12 hours away from home.
In fairness my commute is 5-7 mins. I did do a 1hr commute for years but couldn't do it now. Anything over 30mins is too much I'd say if you have family.
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 09, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Your commute is two hours each way?
I live in Newbridge and work in Ballsbridge - leave the house at 7 to drive to the railway station - get 7.20 train to Grand Canal Dock - get into work about 08:40. Leave at 5 and get home at 6:50 so essentially 12 hours away from home.
I'd say you're happy enough wfh!
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
not just public sector. Jobsworths in manager positions basically make it a problem.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
not just public sector. Jobsworths in manager positions basically make it a problem.
Managers are so 1990s.
Flat teams / structures, treat people as grown ups. If they don't perform, manage them out of the business. The more you empower and expect from people the more they will surprise you and achieve.
If someone in our business wants to work 4 or 5 days from home then no problem. If there is a drop off in their productivity they can expect to be asked why and to up their game. But we're a really socialable crew and many of the team actually asked to come back into the office. I have a few marketing and admin people and they'll be WFH for as long as they want.
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 09, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 09, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Your commute is two hours each way?
I live in Newbridge and work in Ballsbridge - leave the house at 7 to drive to the railway station - get 7.20 train to Grand Canal Dock - get into work about 08:40. Leave at 5 and get home at 6:50 so essentially 12 hours away from home.
I'd say you're happy enough wfh!
Some of the commutes into our place are crazy - they-re 4-5 people doing the same as me from Newbridge. At least we all had seats on the train since it starts in Newbridge. It's standing room only from the next station in Sallins. There was one lady in our Dept coming in daily from Edenderry and another fellow coming in from Virginia
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 09, 2021, 11:58:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 09, 2021, 11:01:25 AM
Quote from: tc_manchester on June 09, 2021, 09:50:54 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Your commute is two hours each way?
I live in Newbridge and work in Ballsbridge - leave the house at 7 to drive to the railway station - get 7.20 train to Grand Canal Dock - get into work about 08:40. Leave at 5 and get home at 6:50 so essentially 12 hours away from home.
I'd say you're happy enough wfh!
Some of the commutes into our place are crazy - they-re 4-5 people doing the same as me from Newbridge. At least we all had seats on the train since it starts in Newbridge. It's standing room only from the next station in Sallins. There was one lady in our Dept coming in daily from Edenderry and another fellow coming in from Virginia
It's mad how it just seems normal when you're at it too. I did on average 1 hr 20 mins each way for 13 years then got a job 15 minutes away. Couldn't do that sort of driving again. I'm about 25 minutes now and happy with that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
not just public sector. Jobsworths in manager positions basically make it a problem.
Individual managers shouldn't be able to set policy in any decent sized company. Re. the travel piece we are also telling them that if they choose to travel and get caught out with quarantine on return and are required to be onsite any isolation time is annual leave. I dont see any issue with that.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
not just public sector. Jobsworths in manager positions basically make it a problem.
Individual managers shouldn't be able to set policy in any decent sized company. Re. the travel piece we are also telling them that if they choose to travel and get caught out with quarantine on return and are required to be onsite any isolation time is annual leave. I dont see any issue with that.
That's absolutely fine in my book. You can't remotely build someone's house for example. In my example, my father in law can 100% do his job from home. The only reason for a manager to try up prevent someone from doing so under those circumstances is because the manager is a p***k.
I'd agree Gallsman. If it literally has no impact on the employer then I don't see their issue.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
I'd agree Gallsman. If it literally has no impact on the employer then I don't see their issue.
But it is up to employer to determine if it has an impact and not the employee. The employer has the final say. He / She pays the wages.
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
I'd agree Gallsman. If it literally has no impact on the employer then I don't see their issue.
But it is up to employer to determine if it has an impact and not the employee. The employer has the final say. He / She pays the wages.
This is true, but the employee also provides a service that the employer needs/ values. Neither is irreplaceable. If an employer is hold fast refusing to consider flexible working arrangements then they will be more susceptible to losing talent, especially now when many other companies are moving more towards that approach. Of course it doesn't work for all roles but when it can be an option, employers should be considering it for their own sake as much as the employees.
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 03:43:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
I'd agree Gallsman. If it literally has no impact on the employer then I don't see their issue.
But it is up to employer to determine if it has an impact and not the employee. The employer has the final say. He / She pays the wages.
And if they do that completely unreasonably then they should be taken to task for it.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 02:21:18 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 09, 2021, 02:02:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
not just public sector. Jobsworths in manager positions basically make it a problem.
Individual managers shouldn't be able to set policy in any decent sized company. Re. the travel piece we are also telling them that if they choose to travel and get caught out with quarantine on return and are required to be onsite any isolation time is annual leave. I dont see any issue with that.
That's absolutely fine in my book. You can't remotely build someone's house for example. In my example, my father in law can 100% do his job from home. The only reason for a manager to try up prevent someone from doing so under those circumstances is because the manager is a p***k.
I don't know about the NICS, but in the Freestate the government specifically said that any public servant travelling had to take leave, whether they were working from home or not. They didn't want people travelling in general and did not want it to be easy for people in certain roles but not in others.
It was nothing to do with people travelling, his manager decided of her own accord that he couldn't work his quarantine period for absolutely no reason other than being an arsehole. HR policy at the minute perfectly entitles him to work from home.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 06:50:38 PM
It was nothing to do with people travelling, his manager decided of her own accord that he couldn't work his quarantine period for absolutely no reason other than being an arsehole. HR policy at the minute perfectly entitles him to work from home.
I think I'd ask my employeees to take it as leave as well. It goes against the essential travel only idea. Take it as leave and sure he'll be grand.
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 06:57:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 06:50:38 PM
It was nothing to do with people travelling, his manager decided of her own accord that he couldn't work his quarantine period for absolutely no reason other than being an arsehole. HR policy at the minute perfectly entitles him to work from home.
I think I'd ask my employeees to take it as leave as well. It goes against the essential travel only idea. Take it as leave and sure he'll be grand.
Why?
You'd look a right twat after HR undermine your position.
Whether or not it's essential travel or not has absolutely nothing to do with you as an employer. Try to pull that sort of shit and it'd be you out of a job.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 08:47:02 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 06:57:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 06:50:38 PM
It was nothing to do with people travelling, his manager decided of her own accord that he couldn't work his quarantine period for absolutely no reason other than being an arsehole. HR policy at the minute perfectly entitles him to work from home.
I think I'd ask my employeees to take it as leave as well. It goes against the essential travel only idea. Take it as leave and sure he'll be grand.
Why?
You'd look a right twat after HR undermine your position.
Whether or not it's essential travel or not has absolutely nothing to do with you as an employer. Try to pull that sort of shit and it'd be you out of a job.
Because it's impossible to predict if he can do his job from home. He's completely unavailable to go to his place of work. If he was needed he can't go. That'd be a problem and if you do bend the rule for one you have to do it for everyone and if you're trying to run a business and the staff are making up the rules well it's an issue. What next just saying you're working from home and go on a holiday? It has to be fair to both the employer as well as the employee IMO.
WTF are you talking about? HR policy is that he can work from home during the pandemic. No rules are being bent. You, as the manager, would be trying to impose your own ruleset on someone for no other reason than to be a complete p***k.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:14:39 PM
WTF are you talking about? HR policy is that he can work from home during the pandemic. No rules are being bent. You, as the manager, would be trying to impose your own ruleset on someone for no other reason than to be a complete p***k.
From an employers perspective he's unavailable to go to work. Regardless if HR are letting people work from home. What if he needs to go his place of work? It's not about this one individual case, it's about all the possible cases across the business. Some lad who's needed in the office but can't come in? I think you need to look at it from the employers perspective and what is best for the business.
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:14:39 PM
WTF are you talking about? HR policy is that he can work from home during the pandemic. No rules are being bent. You, as the manager, would be trying to impose your own ruleset on someone for no other reason than to be a complete p***k.
From an employers perspective he's unavailable to go to work. Regardless if HR are letting people work from home. What if he needs to go his place of work? It's not about this one individual case, it's about all the possible cases across the business. Some lad who's needed in the office but can't come in? I think you need to look at it from the employers perspective and what is best for the business.
You understand that HR are part of the business, yes? They represent the employer. So what are you on about "from the employer's perspective"?
His job is deemed capable of being performed from home, and under the protocols in place during the pandemic, he can work from home as required. His manager tried to stop this happening. I've no idea what two bit operation you work for, but good luck to you insisting employees have to be in the office in contravention of company policy.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:14:39 PM
WTF are you talking about? HR policy is that he can work from home during the pandemic. No rules are being bent. You, as the manager, would be trying to impose your own ruleset on someone for no other reason than to be a complete p***k.
From an employers perspective he's unavailable to go to work. Regardless if HR are letting people work from home. What if he needs to go his place of work? It's not about this one individual case, it's about all the possible cases across the business. Some lad who's needed in the office but can't come in? I think you need to look at it from the employers perspective and what is best for the business.
You understand that HR are part of the business, yes? They represent the employer. So what are you on about "from the employer's perspective"?
His job is deemed capable of being performed from home, and under the protocols in place during the pandemic, he can work from home as required. His manager tried to stop this happening. I've no idea what two bit operation you work for, but good luck to you insisting employees have to be in the office in contravention of company policy.
You're getting fierce worked up about this. Relax.
I run my own business so fortunately I can make the rules.
Facebook are not only going to let people work from home, but will allow them to work remotely from outside Ireland!
IT companies shouldn't care where you work - with the only caveat being timezone.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
Facebook are not only going to let people work from home, but will allow them to work remotely from outside Ireland!
They have to be careful with that though due to tax.
Quote from: gallsman on June 10, 2021, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
Facebook are not only going to let people work from home, but will allow them to work remotely from outside Ireland!
They have to be careful with that though due to tax.
I reckon this will be much tighter than they are letting on. Will be available for a limited number of specific roles.
Quote from: shark on June 10, 2021, 02:03:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 10, 2021, 01:46:36 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 10, 2021, 01:10:53 PM
Facebook are not only going to let people work from home, but will allow them to work remotely from outside Ireland!
They have to be careful with that though due to tax.
I reckon this will be much tighter than they are letting on. Will be available for a limited number of specific roles.
For sure. It's a great headline but the reality will be far stricter.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
That's crazy. If she hadn't known he was going to Barcelona then it wouldn't have been an issue. His honesty is being exploited. I'd refuse to take leave if I was him.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2021, 02:37:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
That's crazy. If she hadn't known he was going to Barcelona then it wouldn't have been an issue. His honesty is being exploited. I'd refuse to take leave if I was him.
The point is that working from home may be a concession, in that people in jobs may be required to come to the office from time to time, some more than others. A lot of employers would not want a class of worker who can refuse to come to the office, although they might be at home 95% of the time. This precludes people deliberately putting themselves in a position where they must work from home. Also there are equity considerations if person A can head off abroad on holidays, while person B who does work in the office cannot do this as they would need the leave for the quarantine.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 10, 2021, 01:14:20 PM
IT companies shouldn't care where you work - with the only caveat being timezone.
and in some cases it is beneficial to have the different timezones! We (east coast australia) regularly deal with planners that are in Canada. WE can give them a task, they work on it overnight and we have it back first thing in the morning. We can use the day review and make changes and send it back to them.
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:26:06 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 09, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 09:14:39 PM
WTF are you talking about? HR policy is that he can work from home during the pandemic. No rules are being bent. You, as the manager, would be trying to impose your own ruleset on someone for no other reason than to be a complete p***k.
From an employers perspective he's unavailable to go to work. Regardless if HR are letting people work from home. What if he needs to go his place of work? It's not about this one individual case, it's about all the possible cases across the business. Some lad who's needed in the office but can't come in? I think you need to look at it from the employers perspective and what is best for the business.
You understand that HR are part of the business, yes? They represent the employer. So what are you on about "from the employer's perspective"?
His job is deemed capable of being performed from home, and under the protocols in place during the pandemic, he can work from home as required. His manager tried to stop this happening. I've no idea what two bit operation you work for, but good luck to you insisting employees have to be in the office in contravention of company policy.
It's a hard one mate. There could be something in the small print. Working from home during the pandemic is one thing, travelling abroad and returning may fall under something else. That said, I've sympathy for his situation
Quote from: armaghniac on June 10, 2021, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on June 10, 2021, 02:37:24 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 09, 2021, 10:26:43 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2021, 09:31:25 AM
The ones that won't are the ones with too manay managers who just want to try and control their workers... Needs to be trust. It's harder to micro manage too when people are WFH. (Though can be done no doubt)
Hello NI public sector.
Farther in law has both doses and works, let's just say in higher education, and is coming here next Tuesday to see his 9 month old granddaughter for the first time. Has to quarantine on return. Manager said he couldn't work from home (as had been done successfully throughout the pandemic) during his quarantine and he'd have to use annual leave. Spoke to HR about it and they said it absolutely wasn't a problem.
That's crazy. If she hadn't known he was going to Barcelona then it wouldn't have been an issue. His honesty is being exploited. I'd refuse to take leave if I was him.
The point is that working from home may be a concession, in that people in jobs may be required to come to the office from time to time, some more than others. A lot of employers would not want a class of worker who can refuse to come to the office, although they might be at home 95% of the time. This precludes people deliberately putting themselves in a position where they must work from home. Also there are equity considerations if person A can head off abroad on holidays, while person B who does work in the office cannot do this as they would need the leave for the quarantine.
It opens the whole business up to everyone going on holidays and quarantining/ working at home. This can only lead to operational issues. If Johnny can do it why can't I? As usually the employee sees it entirely from his perspective and thinks they're the only consideration.
If Johnny can do it, then anybody else whose job gets categorised the same way can do it, of course. Bob, the building security guard's job, has been assessed as impossible to do from home, therefore he goes into the office. It's really, really simple.
What don't you understand about the fact that these aren't builders or plumbers or electricians? It has already been assessed that allowing someone to work from home either does not cause an operational issue, or that any operational issue arising is within tolerable limits.
This was the specifics of my example. An organisation with a HR department that writes official policy for the employees of the organisation. You decided to with in with your completely different example of "well I employ two men and a dog where I need them to be on site and I wouldn't allow it". Not remotely the same like.
Anyone based in Barcelona are on the pigs back so to speak.
Unions make employers lives intolerable - the other side of the coin is they are super for employees
Will they delay in indoor dining result people returning to offices later in year?
https://www.newstalk.com/news/reopening-of-indoor-dining-set-to-be-delayed-by-at-least-two-weeks-1217708
Quote from: Taylor on June 11, 2021, 02:38:20 PM
Unions make employers lives intolerable - the other side of the coin is they are super for employees
I've worked in a lot of unionised environments and have never found them to be super for employees. They are super for the bottom quartile of performers, and pretty meh for the rest.
The wife works in HR in a very large company and is saying they are starting to have a lot of issues with employees, at various levels, who are just not present online and the sooner they get back to the office the better for her sanity as she is sick asking people why they're not online.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 09:15:39 AM
The wife works in HR in a very large company and is saying they are starting to have a lot of issues with employees, at various levels, who are just not present online and the sooner they get back to the office the better for her sanity as she is sick asking people why they're not online.
Think you can set your MS Teams status to whatever you want it to appear like, can imagine that function will be getting disabled fairly sharpish.
Not much use if you don't reply though.
Put yourself to green
Download the teams app to your phone
Pour beer
Go out and sit in the sun
*until they realise you've done f**k all and get fired. Then you'll have all the time you want outside!
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 29, 2021, 09:15:39 AM
The wife works in HR in a very large company and is saying they are starting to have a lot of issues with employees, at various levels, who are just not present online and the sooner they get back to the office the better for her sanity as she is sick asking people why they're not online.
Always best to have a big document to review that requires you to be away from the machine for a while ;). Do Not Disturb. Although the oricks in our work try ringing anyway as they just assume everyone has a bluff status on. Keep your powder dry and don't reveal the 👁