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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM

Title: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM
Just read an article in the Atlantic about so-called "rough rides." Apparently there's a plethora of nicknames for the practice of cuffing someone, throwing him in the back of a van, not strapping him in, and then driving around like a maniac to rough the victim up. "Bringing him to the front" is the act of sudden braking to slam him against the front panel, also known as a "screen test." In Philly they call them "nickel rides" after amusement park rides. If they've got that many names for it then it's a good bet that it's a fairly common practice.

For all this talk of condemning the rioting in Baltimore, which you have to do, I feel a bit uncomfortable with this American culture of hero worship for anyone in a uniform. If someone serves in the military you have to refer to them as a "hero" and thank him for his service, even if you know nothing about him or what he did when he was on tour. You don't know if he spent his time as a mechanic in the base or shooting up civilians on the street. And I certainly don't get this habit some people have of saying "I support the police." As far as I'm concerned I'll be grateful for when they do a good job the same way I'm grateful to the waitress who gives good service that I'm paying for.

I'd make an exception maybe for the likes of firemen since they're not generally armed and not in much of a position to abuse any power. But this doctrine of porcine infallibility makes me very uncomfortable and it will be America's undoing if they don't do a better job of policing the policemen.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 08:06:24 AM
If you feel uncomfortable about the heroes in uniform then is it better to leave?
The Baltimore mayor is bang out of order for her comments on allowing rioters space to destroy.
What sort of message does that send? Liquor stores being looted ain't gonna solve issues.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: illdecide on April 28, 2015, 09:14:04 AM
Ye wouldn't get that behaviour in Lurgan ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 28, 2015, 09:19:14 AM
Sounds pretty similar to a lot of the things that happened here for years.  There is also the favourite of lying the guy on the floor and using him as a foot stool.  This is common in many police forces as they have a serious power trip and are dealing in circumstances that the 'rules' go out through the gate.  Not nice.  As far as hero worshiping them well that's people's preference.  The US and the British love their armies so they do and see them as the extension of their 'empires', physical and psychological.  It's just the way of the world and it will never change for as long as there are 'baddies' and 'goodies'.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 09:26:19 AM
Porcine infallibility? That says a lot right there.

Cops do a very important job, and to say you appreciate them the same way you appreciate a good waitress is a stupid comment and beneath you Eamonn, to be fair. If there were no cops on the streets of San Francisco (hey that would be a great name for a TV programme) you'd soon want them back.

Of course there are bad cops, and of course there are bad practices that have a blind eye turned to them because the higher echelons decide it's worth it, or even encourage it, to throw a few digs at a sc**bag they are arresting. But that does not mean that the job they do is any less important or valuable.

As for this whole 'I appreciate the job you do, and Thank you for your service', of course it's another media driven, establishment driven agenda to ensure they get a never ending stream of young lads and girls to join the meat grinder so they can send them to Iraq, Iran, or a plethora of 'stans' at some stage in the future. It makes me sad that the American people, a people I like a lot, cannot see that they are being force fed this shite and lapping it up, with almost every broadcast, TV program and sporting event they go to or see. Major sports in America are particularly bad for this, and I don't believe it's because they really believe it, I think it's because they want to keep the government onside for any decisions they need in the future around stadiums etc.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Whether you agree with it or not, the military is one of the pillars upon which the country is built and as a result is interwoven into pretty much every facet of society.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 28, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
Some very disturbing recent(ish) articles on policing in the U.S. 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/08/12/taken (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/08/12/taken)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 28, 2015, 01:09:05 PM
If you have the time, this piece "Don't Talk to Police"  is well worth the watch.  The first speaker, a lawyer, is very engaging, and makes a great case as to why you should never speak to the police.  Scarily, the second speaker, a detective, agrees with everything the lawyer says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 01:52:08 PM
Whether you agree with it or not, the military is one of the pillars upon which the country is built and as a result is interwoven into pretty much every facet of society.

Most of the country is oblivious to the true costs of war as most people don't serve or don't have to serve. It's poor people and people from rural areas with no other options. The "I support the troops" ribbons and the rest is just meaningless lip service to the people who suffer the real costs for shit pay and a veterans' welfare system that is ridiculously inadequate. For a country like the US which has to stick it's nose in all over the world to "protect freedom", there should be some kind of compulsory service. Might be a few less sabre - rattling chicken hawks around then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 01:56:51 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.

Wonder how it would have all went down had Gore prevailed.  Would the GOP, Fox News, Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing have spent those years beating the war drums and bullying everyone into submission on Iraq and freedom fries and Hans Blix?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 01:56:58 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.

3/4 of my wifes nephews served recently...2 in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq. 2/3 are college graduates from good 4 year colleges and went in as officers (their dad served several tours in Vietnam and I guess that was their motivation) The third barely made it through high school and was in all types of trouble before using the Marines as a way out of a sticky situation.

The men and women who served are under no illusions that the whole thing is a crock. You send them off to fight a war woefully under equipped, then have minimal support systems in place for them when they come back. 

One of my wifes nephews fought in Marjah and commanded a team there. (1) He got shot, but was relatively unscathed due to the body armor he was wearing. When he came back stateside he had to turn in all his equipment, and was "charged" ($$) for damaging military property because his body armor was destroyed.

(2) Same guy was in a Humvee that got hit by a roadside bomb and completely screwed up his back. I dont know the ins and outs, but lets just say the medical treatment he qualified for as a veteran went nowhere near covering his needs.

I douby 1% of people in Ireland know anyone who ever fought in a war.

Id say 90%+ of people in the US know someone who fought in a war in the past 15 years.

I wouldnt call it faux patriotism...I just think the average American views the military through a completely different lens than the average Irish person

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 02:23:49 PM
whitey, the faux patriotism I'm referring to is the gestures and 'recognition days' you see in all the major sports and major corporations. I have no doubt that most individuals have genuine patriotic feelings, but they are at least 'stoked' by the ads, the NFL armed forces weekends, the 'just back from Afghanistan surprises for parents at MLB and NHL etc etc etc'.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 02:40:09 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:07:30 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda

Of course, and anyone that doesn't agree with you fits into that category.

It must be obvious at this stage, even to you, that many of these incidents are indefensible. Cops make mistakes and errors of judgement everywhere. Pointing this out is not left wing propaganda.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm  referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is viewed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:17:55 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:25:53 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

Tillman was killed by friendly fire.

That more than anything should convey the pointlessness of war.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:27:02 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

I know an Irish-American lad, right wing zealot, proud ex- Marine and otherwise nice guy, who proudly told me how he kicked some Irish cousins out of his house, never to speak to them again,  around the time of the Iraq war build-up for having the nerve to say that US foreign policy may have contributed to 9/11.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:28:29 PM
Possibly, but most were going to be conscripted anyway. Secondly, many  were earning the average industrial wage-they weren't the highly paid superstars of today. Thirdly comparing Wolverhampton Wanderers circa 1939 to 2011 AZ Cardinals is a stretch to say the least
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

He claimed that no one from Ireland could even comprehend his decision, as if it were some sort of higher function. We could point to any number of Irish people who gave up their lives for their country. Presumably his celebrity makes him better than others.

But I prefer to highlight the complete pointlessness of it. He died a young man, killed by those he volunteered to serve.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

I know an Irish-American lad, right wing zealot, proud ex- Marine and otherwise nice guy, who proudly told me how he kicked some Irish cousins out of his house, never to speak to them again,  around the time of the Iraq war build-up for having the nerve to say that US foreign policy may have contributed to 9/11.

Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:42:53 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

He claimed that no one from Ireland could even comprehend his decision, as if it were some sort of higher function. We could point to any number of Irish people who gave up their lives for their country. Presumably his celebrity makes him better than others.

But I prefer to highlight the complete pointlessness of it. He died a young man, killed by those he volunteered to serve.

I think I've addressed the fact that only Americans could think like that. And I agree about how ironically futile it was to throw away a young life. My point is that the American public are all the time being encouraged to follow his lead, and others, in order to fulfill American foreign policy. That's why I say it's a cynical sort of 'appreciation for your service'.

I think a good example is the cover up of how he died actually. They really didn't want it to come out that not only was it a waste of life, but it was wasted by themselves.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:43:55 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

This is exactly it.

Thank you for your service but now f*ck off for yourself.




Whitey actually emphasised the poor treatment of ex-servicemen earlier.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:59:29 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

To be honest, I think we've had enough of this tangent. It's not really relevant to the point anymore. You said it simply wouldn't occur, I pointed out that it has occured in the past. Now you speak about Premiership Footballers, so I'll ask about NBA players, any other NFL players, MLB players etc etc.

Pat Tillman did something that was unusual, but it is not representative of all American Athletes, nor is it unique to just Americans.

That's it as far as I'm concerned.

Now as for why your average Joe in the states appears to be so in thrall to the uniform, I still believe it is because he is told to be that way every single where he looks. Even his heroes of the gridiron or the diamond tell him. It would be hard *not* to be with all that going on. And that is the cynicism I refer to, because as we have all pointed out, despite the lip service, the US treats its Vets deplorably.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:59:38 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.
[/quote

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:02:45 PM
Jaysus whitey, we're jumping around like fleas on a blanket here :) You're on about Noraid now? What's that got to do with whether Americans are being brainwashed into a sham of support for their servicemen and women?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:04:53 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

While I respect the Irish peacekeeping missions you're not seriously making that comparison are you? LOL.  A good few served in the FCA too while you're at it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:05:06 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

In fairness, I don't like having a go at Pat Tillman per se. I hope it's not coming off as that. I watched Tillman play, and I remember him in ASU. He was an iconic figure in Arizona before he ever went to join the Marines. What he did was extremely principled, and brave. While I question a lot of the US foreign policy, and the reason he found himself in that situation, I don't think I want to question his own personal motivation or bravery. And in terms of sacrifice, what he gave up financially, even if he returned home 100% fine, was a massive statement.

So I'd prefer not to linger on Pat, other than to say that while what he did was definitely brave and noteworthy, plenty of other people have served in Armies around the world having been professional sportsmen or sportstars of note.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:06:58 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

Please show me an example of  'this complete insistence that you're right all the time'. I am simply making my points like everyone else.

If you disagree with them, fine. But your post above is reads exactly of what you accuse me of.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:09:32 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.

I don't think the people who got arms and money from America recognized "Ireland" either-and they seems to me to be the loudest in their condemnation of US foreign policy
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 04:14:47 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

As long as other people's kids are lining up to go and die or be hideously maimed, Americans will keep supporting US foreign policy. Because Soviets/Saddam/AL Qaida/ISIS/Ebola are coming to American shores...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:16:17 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

He is from Mayo afaik.

Suggesting that because Noraid existed, it somehow prohibits us from having an opinion on Israel is, even if we didn't support Noraid is........well I'd better not say or MacDanger will get offended.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:17:50 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:25:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.

Yes, I would stand by that opinion.  Let's just say that I personally know a well known, High profile Sinn fein member who was Stateside before the peace process started up. He is now an Elected representative. Let's just say, I had some very interesting conversations with him
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

That may be true AZ but the numbers are overwhelming even if you take into account population we are talking over 100 years for the UK and 1 month for the US!!

Of course it isn't just the fault of the police force for all these killings and the Gun Culture accounts for a hell of a lot of death by cop in the US but even still it's enormous!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:29:30 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Is that you Hannity??!!!!?!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on April 28, 2015, 04:32:24 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

I'd say if you trawled through enough stats you'd find that more Cops in the US have been gunned down that the police in the UK, so its no wonder some of the Cops in certain situations are prepared to shot first and ask questions later.

Whilst I can understand that, with that comes an acceptance that the Police have a difficult and dnagerous job to do, so the legislators seemingly turn a blind eye to all indiscretions irrespective if the Cop was in any danger or not and the cops themselves are taking liberties.

There's no easy solution especially when every nut job can get their hands on a gun of one kind or other, legally or otherwise.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:59:56 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?

Ah Jaysus were so far into the weeds here we'll never get out

AZ made some accurate statements about the military hoopla which goes on at US sporting events. The point which I tired (unsuccessfully it would seem) to make was when you view this hoopla through the eyes of the fans who attend such events, they would most likely have a different view of the military than say most people in Ireland (who probably wouldn't know a single person who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan) Most would think it's great (or at least he ones I know do)

Pat Tillman is relevant to the conversation, because here you have a real time real life hero who gave up a multi million dollar contract and endorsements to serve his country in an elite special forces unit. AZ Cardinals fans would most likely not  view a tribute to the military as hoopla in any way shape or form





Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:00:32 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Fear, uncertainty & doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:01:54 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Don't mind Trump. He will say anything to get in the news, especially stuff to endear him to the Fox watching tinfoil hat crowd. And Fox, well, what else would they say given the demands of their audience?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:03:16 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

LOL!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 05:04:13 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2015, 05:10:51 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:13:36 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.

There is no doubt some of these guys shoot first and ask questions later out of fear. I would imagine some of these neighbourhoods are not places you would want to find yourself so yes it is understandable to a degree. But better resources and training might help.

That and scrapping the NRA and FOX.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

...and Nappies for all!!


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 05:18:34 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.

Having seen what I have seen and now that I know what I know....I would be all in favor of compulsory military service with no waivers and a separate line item on your pay stub showing a "war tax". Those fvcking idiots may not be as fast to start a war next time around if people truly knew the cost...both human and financial
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...
Title: !!
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:26:49 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Nappies for all!!




 ;D Fair enough.

Should be easy enough to ID all those people however.
Title: Re: !!
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:35:02 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

What do you think will happen if the police and the national guard go in guns blazing against Baltimore street gangs?

And what is wrong with sending a representative to that funeral?

Black protests are happening because a tipping point was reached in the killing of unarmed black males, not because of Obama. Obama is irrelevant. The internet and the ubiquitousness of smart phones allowing people to film everything are what is happening. These cases went uninvestigated/whitewashed until recently. Now that is no longer possible because everything hits the news and You Tube and the publicity is emboldening black people to resist, albeit not without being coopted by criminal elements. But go ahead and blame the mighty, evil Obama if you want. What will you right wingers do in two years when he's gone and the other evil incarnate, Hillary, doesn't win. Who will you blame for all of society's ills then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: CSC on April 28, 2015, 05:38:22 PM
Throwing my 2 cents into the argument;

From my experiences with Americans, they are intelligent enough to draw a distinction between foregin policy makers / politicians, and the actual solder, and the sacrifices that solders make to serve the county.

So as big a mistake as Iraq and Vietnam was from a policy / strategy point of view, Americans view the sacrifices that the individual solder makes as the same as WWII in Europe on the beaches and in the Asia Pacific in the islands.

They also understand what war does to a man, i.e. the dehumanization of the enemy and morality, and so tend to respect the physical and physiological demands war places on solders.

So Americans do not think its a double standard when holding politicians accountable for bad leadership / policy, while respecting the solder who defends the policy which significant sacrifices.
Title: Re: !!
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:40:17 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/27/team-obama-to-respond-to-baltimore-rioting-requests-law-enforcement-restraint/
Title: Re: !!
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Title: Re: !!
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:49:45 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Not at all thats not what I'm saying.
Obama is not doing his job as a leader. He is the President. But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should. There is nothing wrong with sending a representative to the funeral if you at the same time tell the rioters to stand down. When you only do one as the leader of a country surely you are implying a message to one side of the argument - whether you intend to or not....
Title: Re: !!
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:53:58 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Not at all thats not what I'm saying.
Obama is not doing his job as a leader. He is the President. But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should. There is nothing wrong with sending a representative to the funeral if you at the same time tell the rioters to stand down. When you only do one as the leader of a country surely you are implying a message to one side of the argument - whether you intend to or not....

Given that you cannot click on even the link to Breitbart I posted above:

By 9:00 p.m., as fires were breaking out across the city, Hogan revealed during a press conference that that Obama called to thank him for declaring a state of emergency in response to the rioting and asked him to exercise “due restraint.”

“I assured him that we were,” Hogan explained to the press. “The last thing we want to do is escalate violence. I assured him we would not stand by and allow our city of Baltimore to be taken over by thugs.”

Hogan also indicated that Obama revealed that Lynch would visit Baltimore to help de-escalate the violence.

“He said that we need to get control of our streets, and he endorsed the action taken tonight,” Hogan explained.

White House officials confirmed to reporters that Obama spoke to Hogan this evening, but declined to share any details of the conversation.

By 9:00 p.m., Lynch also released a lengthy statement condemning the “senseless acts of violence” in Baltimore vowing that the Justice Department “stands ready to provide any assistance that might be helpful.”

“As our investigative process continues, I strongly urge every member of the Baltimore community to adhere to the principles of nonviolence,” she said, promising to work with Baltimore leaders to “protect the security and civil rights of all residents.”

“I will bring the full resources of the Department of Justice to bear in protecting those under threat, investigating wrongdoing, and securing an end to violence,” she added.


The highest law enforcement official in the administration not enough for you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 06:00:38 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Because the AG, his law enforcement representative, has done so and its her job?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

Quote
But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

Quote
But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

Quote
But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:22:53 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

Quote
But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.

On the flip side of all that Muppet as a husband and father, looking at these shootings, looking at the riots, the looting, the descent into chaos when either people are pissed off about something or a natural disaster strikes, like a hurricane and there is a shortage of food or water - what choice do I have, faced with all of this? Other than to arm myself and be willing to protect my family?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:26:46 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

Quote
But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.

On the flip side of all that Muppet as a husband and father, looking at these shootings, looking at the riots, the looting, the descent into chaos when either people are pissed off about something or a natural disaster strikes, like a hurricane and there is a shortage of food or water - what choice do I have, faced with all of this? Other than to arm myself and be willing to protect my family?

If it was happening outside my door, I think I would agree with you.

But we all know that will only throw fuel on the fire and who knows where it could end up?

We took the gun out of the politics of the 6 counties, someone needs to find a way to do it in The States.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:35:34 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Actually I think I understand you better now on Obama. Rather that it being a politically motivated criticism, you hope it might actually help things, is that right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:36:47 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
I left NJ right after Hurricane Sandy. I've never felt as helpless as a husband and parent. I was down through Baltimore a few times and never really cared for it. NJ was chaos for Sandy.
I relocated to Seattle and live 10 mins from any town. But there was a school shooting in Seattle late last year. There are constant shootings in the City itself all the time.
We're slowly working on a plan to make it back home to Ireland.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 06:46:37 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.

I'm surprised you didn't take a trip down to "The Block".....a must do for all tourists

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/booze_news/prostitution-and-other-allegations-but-no-police-officer-to-testify/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:56:00 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.

I'm surprised you didn't take a trip down to "The Block".....a must do for all tourists

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/booze_news/prostitution-and-other-allegations-but-no-police-officer-to-testify/

I didn't know that was there! But it was years ago when I was there, it mightn't have existed then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 07:16:19 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:20:55 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Yes that ship has sailed, long ago.

The problem is that the NRA constituency sees even the most minor nod towards gun control legislation as a sellout and the beginning of Obama coming for their guns and big government repression of citizens. And the fact that politicians and lobbyists hype this all out of proportion for donations doesn't help either, despite the issue being fairly settled, minor controls aside, at this point.

I've no issue with someone owning a gun, but why they need a combat- level armory is nothing but deluded paranoia, similar to much of the right wing discourse.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?




And that proves what?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2015, 09:13:38 PM
Just read an article in the Atlantic about so-called "rough rides." Apparently there's a plethora of nicknames for the practice of cuffing someone, throwing him in the back of a van, not strapping him in, and then driving around like a maniac to rough the victim up. "Bringing him to the front" is the act of sudden braking to slam him against the front panel, also known as a "screen test." In Philly they call them "nickel rides" after amusement park rides. If they've got that many names for it then it's a good bet that it's a fairly common practice.

For all this talk of condemning the rioting in Baltimore, which you have to do, I feel a bit uncomfortable with this American culture of hero worship for anyone in a uniform. If someone serves in the military you have to refer to them as a "hero" and thank him for his service, even if you know nothing about him or what he did when he was on tour. You don't know if he spent his time as a mechanic in the base or shooting up civilians on the street. And I certainly don't get this habit some people have of saying "I support the police." As far as I'm concerned I'll be grateful for when they do a good job the same way I'm grateful to the waitress who gives good service that I'm paying for.

I'd make an exception maybe for the likes of firemen since they're not generally armed and not in much of a position to abuse any power. But this doctrine of porcine infallibility makes me very uncomfortable and it will be America's undoing if they don't do a better job of policing the policemen.

Did the guy arrested look like he couldn't walk before he was put in the van?
Is there any video of him before this to see what happened to him ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:14:11 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
I left NJ right after Hurricane Sandy. I've never felt as helpless as a husband and parent. I was down through Baltimore a few times and never really cared for it. NJ was chaos for Sandy.
I relocated to Seattle and live 10 mins from any town. But there was a school shooting in Seattle late last year. There are constant shootings in the City itself all the time.
We're slowly working on a plan to make it back home to Ireland.

Can't blame you for moving back, there's so many shottings around here these days that it doesn't make the news anymore. I just take it for granted that everyone is carrying a weapon. Its sad when I have to tell my 6 year old to stop playing cops and robbers in the playground because I'm afraid of what might happen.
Cops are generally overly aggressive over here but if you witnessed the crap they put up with you might understand why.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.
 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:43:06 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

Wouldn't move back if you paid me!

Many more options in the US.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:54:07 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!

You should spend a summer here, it's brutal.A typical summers day is like one if those hot and hazy days that you get in NJ during the summer but its everyday for 6 months. But on the plus side you have lower property taxes, no state or local tax and you get a lot more for your money when buying property and of course the winters are beautiful. If you like heat its the place to live.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

I agree, I hope to have the family back before my eldest is 10 years old. Even if I was to stay in the U.S I would leave Florida.   
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

I agree, I hope to have the family back before my eldest is 10 years old. Even if I was to stay in the U.S I would leave Florida.

Too many rednecks?  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 12:32:13 AM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!

You should spend a summer here, it's brutal.A typical summers day is like one if those hot and hazy days that you get in NJ during the summer but its everyday for 6 months. But on the plus side you have lower property taxes, no state or local tax and you get a lot more for your money when buying property and of course the winters are beautiful. If you like heat its the place to live.

I've spent time there in summer (I've a retired parent there). I love the heat! Like the seasons though too, so I don't know if I could take year around living there, despite the financial advantages. Plus the wife can't stand the place for longer than a few days.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 29, 2015, 12:37:11 AM
that will be the last of my Mrs family - he Da and brother are down there his wife and kids so we'll put in a few years in FL, My hope is to keep a house there when we leave and have it to rent out or use ourselves in winter or whatever. I think after 3 years of FL heat we'd be sick of it and Ireland would be appealing (thats the plan anyway).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
that will be the last of my Mrs family - he Da and brother are down there his wife and kids so we'll put in a few years in FL, My hope is to keep a house there when we leave and have it to rent out or use ourselves in winter or whatever. I think after 3 years of FL heat we'd be sick of it and Ireland would be appealing (thats the plan anyway).

There's a good market for so-called snowbird rentals. In some cases you can make as much renting to them just for the winter as renting to a family all year around (and a lot less hassle too as no kids to wreck the place!).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 29, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Plenty of rednecks and snowbirds, most of the snowbirds are heading back up north at the moment. I lived in New York for 8 years and enjoyed it a lot more, so much more to do up there. It will be a good experience to live here for 3 years, by the time you settle in you will be on your way to Ireland.
J70, we have a few wild Donegal men down here so you would be right at home ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 29, 2015, 04:24:21 AM
So by the same token, white police officers shooting/choking black men is unequivocal proof of police racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 05:05:04 AM


Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.

And we're off again...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:08:27 AM


Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.

And we're off again...

Aw come on, you enjoy the banter...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2015, 06:38:38 AM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

Had a good chuckle at that Im in Socal and while I wouldn't say their PC exactly they are very non confrontational or something, can be bizzare.

In saying that tho.. I had a couple come out and shout the odds at me for parking my car in front of their house the other day. The old dude fired insults at me up the street. If I was at home I would have had a good ole barney with them... but over here you never know who or what your getting involved with so I told them it was a public street and walked on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on April 29, 2015, 09:46:48 AM
America....lovely place....unfortunately full of Americans...wouldn't live there for all of Donald Trump's money..
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

 But maybe that's just me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
I have lived in the US for 11 out of the last 14 years. I moved back to Ireland for 3 years in there but found myself coming back here due to opportunities. I'm glad I moved back home and got it out of my system but can't see myself moving back again as there are much more opportunities for my kids here. We live in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley) and while it's a lot different than the rest of the U.S. it can still be a crazy place. There are many other positives that will keep me here, much more than the negatives.
The Police do a great service to the community, a job I wouldn't do for any money. It very easy to sit on the other side of a screen and talk about it but none of us know the stress they are under every time they go to work in a society that allows guns to be easily got. The military are put on a pedestal also, some of it because of beliefs but some of it is seeing neighbors kids coming home crippled or in body bags. Every country has their own social problems but in this country its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:20:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.

That's the best thing I've seen in ages. This lady is a shining example.
That should be shown on repeat on every channel. Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:57:09 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

I often say "f**k the Democrats".

If only there were a serious,  viable alternative. The GOP is an utter joke at this stage.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!




There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Of course he should be prosecuted if they can prove he stole the stuff.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2015, 07:32:52 PM
Quote
President Obama Condemns Both the Baltimore Riots and the Nation’s ‘Slow-Rolling Crisis’
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and MATT APUZZOAPRIL 28, 2015 New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Obama responded with passion and frustration on Tuesday to the violence that has rocked Baltimore and other cities after the deaths of young black men in confrontations with the police, calling for a period of soul-searching about what he said had become a near-weekly cycle of tragedy.

Speaking from the White House Rose Garden, Mr. Obama condemned the chaos unfolding just 40 miles north of the White House and called for “full transparency and accountability” in a Department of Justice investigation into the death of Freddie Gray, the young black man who died of a spinal cord injury suffered while in police custody.

He said that his thoughts were also with the police officers injured in Monday night’s unrest in Baltimore, which he said “underscores that that’s a tough job, and we have to keep that in mind.”

But in a carefully planned 14-minute statement during a news conference with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, Mr. Obama made clear that he was deeply dismayed not only by the recent unrest in several cities but also by the longstanding yet little-discussed racial and societal forces that have fed it.

“We have seen too many instances of what appears to be police officers interacting with individuals, primarily African-American, often poor, in ways that raise troubling questions,” Mr. Obama said. “This has been a slow-rolling crisis. This has been going on for a long time. This is not new, and we shouldn’t pretend that it’s new.”

He spoke as Loretta E. Lynch, the new attorney general, dispatched two of her top deputies to Baltimore to handle the fallout: Vanita Gupta, her civil rights chief, and Ronald L. Davis, her community-policing director. The unrest there and the epidemic Mr. Obama described of troubled relations between white police officers and black citizens have consumed Ms. Lynch’s first two days on the job and could define her time in office.

They have also raised difficult and familiar questions for Mr. Obama about whether he and his administration are doing enough to confront the problem, questions made all the more poignant because he is the first African-American to occupy the White House.

The president struggled for balance in his remarks. He pushed back against critics who have said he should be more aggressive in his response to questionable practices by the police, saying: “I can’t federalize every police department in the country and force them to retrain.”

Mr. Obama also made clear that he had no sympathy for people rioting in the streets, calling them “a handful of people taking advantage of the situation for their own purposes,” who should “be treated as criminals.”

And he said that law enforcement officials and organizations that represent them must also admit that “there are some police who aren’t doing the right thing.”

The day after chaos erupted across Baltimore, people who were assembled near a looted CVS drugstore discussed the violence.

But he emphasized that the problem went far beyond the police, who he said are too often deployed to “do the dirty work of containing the problems that arise” in broken urban communities where fathers are absent, drugs dominate and education, jobs and opportunities are nonexistent.

The president had initially avoided commenting on the unrest in Baltimore, allowing only still photographers into the Oval Office on Monday afternoon as he held an unscheduled meeting with Ms. Lynch, thus denying reporters the chance to ask him questions about the chaos then unfurling one state away. The issue dominated Ms. Lynch’s first day on the job, and her response to it will be watched closely. As he prepared to swear her in, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said that Ms. Lynch, the first black woman in the post, was uniquely qualified to bridge the divide between minority neighborhoods and police officers clashing over the use of deadly force. Within hours, Baltimore was in flames.

Ms. Lynch’s predecessor, Eric H. Holder Jr., the first black attorney general, was the face of the Obama administration’s response to unrest in Ferguson, Mo., last year after a white police officer killed an unarmed black teenager there, and he relished the opportunity to talk about policing and race relations.

It made him a hero of the civil rights movement, but drew sharp criticism from police groups who said the attorney general did not do enough to support them.

Ms. Lynch, a career prosecutor, came into office promising to strike a new tone and planned to visit police groups this summer. But the riots in Baltimore after the death of the 25-year-old Mr. Gray have overtaken that timeline. Almost as soon as she had taken her oath, there were signs that Baltimore was about to erupt.

As mourners gathered for Mr. Gray’s funeral, the police announced that three street gangs had pledged to work together to “take out” police officers. The University of Maryland shut down its Baltimore campus early, saying it had been warned that the area could soon turn violent.

At the Justice Department, Ms. Lynch was met by Ms. Gupta and Mr. Davis for a lengthy update on Baltimore. It was her first meeting as attorney general, and it led to the unscheduled trip to the White House to meet with Mr. Obama.

In one meeting on Tuesday, Ms. Lynch told officials that while in Baltimore, they should meet not only Mr. Gray’s family but also the officers who were most seriously injured. “When officers get injured in senseless violence, they become victims as well,” she said, a Justice Department official told reporters.

As night set in on Monday, chaos reigned on Baltimore’s streets. Rioters burned and looted businesses. Others hurled rocks. Police officers were injured, and the police commissioner said his department was outnumbered in its own city.

Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland activated the National Guard, sending hundreds of soldiers into the city after dawn on Tuesday.

Ms. Lynch issued a statement in which she condemned “the senseless acts of violence by some individuals in Baltimore that have resulted in harm to law enforcement officers, destruction of property and a shattering of the peace in the city.”

It was a message that Mr. Obama echoed on Tuesday, as he bristled at what he argued was the news media’s habit of focusing on dramatic images of brutality and chaos rather than on what have been mostly peaceful protests in Baltimore and other cities.

“One burning building will be looped on television over and over and over again, and thousands of demonstrators who did it the right way, I think, have been lost in the discussion,” Mr. Obama said.

He said the that “overwhelming majority” in Baltimore protested peacefully and went back into the streets Tuesday to clean up after “a handful of criminals and thugs who tore up the place.” Ms. Lynch, a child of the segregated South and the daughter of a local civil rights leader, has spoken of the need for police officers — because they wield the power — to repair broken relationships. But she has also spoken repeatedly about the police as a force for good in minority neighborhoods.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 08:05:29 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

Talk radio/Fox News fake outrage and drooling aside,  what does this have to do with Obama?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 29, 2015, 11:09:59 PM
Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Stew, you are understandably outraged at what you believe is a crime against people like yourself and you want something done about it. Fair enough.

This is exactly how the protestors feel when they see unarmed men, like themselves, shot. Is that not understandable too?

That is not to endorse the law-breaking looters. TBH the far right must be delighted with the looting as it shines the spotlight away from the real issue.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 11:43:08 PM
Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Stew, you are understandably outraged at what you believe is a crime against people like yourself and you want something done about it. Fair enough.

This is exactly how the protestors feel when they see unarmed men, like themselves, shot. Is that not understandable too?

That is not to endorse the law-breaking looters. TBH the far right must be delighted with the looting as it shines the spotlight away from the real issue.

Too right muppet. First thing I would think of when someone I don't actually know gets killed by the authorities is which store do I need to loot from.
To be fair CVS have a good range of items. Don't even need the key to the pharmacy cabinets either...smashy smashy!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on April 30, 2015, 01:38:22 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:50:27 AM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

See, eventually you've come around to my way of thinking ;)

as for police control, you got me there. How far up the chain does it need to go. are their review boards enough? Certainly the people of ferguson didn't think so.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:59:37 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

 But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2015, 07:46:30 AM
Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

 But maybe that's just me.

Maybe it is.

So how many incidents will it take to satisfy you then? If black people were being abused / harassed / disproportionately imprisoned on a widespread and regular basis, would that qualify as a race war?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 30, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.

You could probably apply a similar rationale to young men in Derry in the early 1970s
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: guy crouchback on April 30, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 30, 2015, 10:01:52 AM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

 But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.

More f**king scaremongering!! Sure we may as well build bunkers for ourselves and  prepare for the apocalypse!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 10:53:18 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.

You could probably apply a similar rationale to young men in Derry in the early 1970s

That's exactly what has hit me here with regard to all those so quick to condemn the black community as a whole.

How quick have our own 'leaders' in the north been to speak out against protests in the past, is it acceptable when its religion just not when its skin colour?

Also hadn't realised CVS was a family run mom and pop store, aside from the fact that the photos in the thread (as far as I can see) prove nothing; has anyone asked to see a receipt?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: theskull1 on April 30, 2015, 11:20:27 AM
Mind being told a story about a lorry load of shop bound chickens stopped and emptied during a hunger strike protest in south Derry. People filled their freezers and ate for months on the fondly called the hunger strike hens. I'm sure it wasn't an isolated incident
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 01:50:50 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?


And that proves what?




I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

 But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.

The problems of cities like Baltimore and Detroit and others have existed for decades, as has the poor relationship between minorities and police. How that translates into a race war for which Obama Is responsible is beyond me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
The main reason these issues appear different now is the rise of smart phones and CCTV.

Anyone who is out of order in public runs the risk of very public scrutiny. In the past is would have been one cop's word against a dead criminal's word. Now we can watch a video and make our own minds up.

TBH I think this sort of thing will get worse for all of us. Anyone who has heard of the high profile GAA official's misfortune can only shudder at where we are going with the rise of the recording devices and youtube etc.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: JoG2 on April 30, 2015, 02:06:51 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?

Crane and Shore are primed and ready

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 02:09:55 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

I say fair play to her.

I wonder, however,  how much of the adulation she is receiving is discussing her stated motivation i.e. keeping her black teenage son away from police.

"That's my only son and I don't want him to be a Freddy Gray"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on April 30, 2015, 02:21:44 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

So the violence from the mother in slapping and punching her is good as she doesnt want him involved in the violence. but the violence from the protesters is bad because emmmm ... And the violence from the police is good because emmmmm....

 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on April 30, 2015, 02:25:20 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

I often say "f**k the Democrats".

If only there were a serious,  viable alternative. The GOP is an utter joke at this stage.

Yes it is, they are the NRA's bitch and they are leaderless and rudderless at this stage.

I cannot imagine Clinton as President, ffs Obamination would do a better job, she used to be a Republican before she me WJC, and now look at the aul dawg!

If ever a country needed more political options it is the good ole US of A.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on April 30, 2015, 05:47:56 PM
If only a few mothers of the bankers and Wall Street gangsters had given them a slap.

They have stole and destroyed more than those currently rioting in Baltimore could ever dream off
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!

So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 11:31:03 PM
It is sad to see some of our country thinking the way they do.

This was written about us:

......Little is cultivated and even less is sown. The problem here is not the quality of the soil but rather the lack of industry on the part of those who should cultivate it. This laziness means that the different types of minerals with which hidden veins of the earth are full are neither mined nor exploited in any way. They do not devote themselves to the manufacture of flax or wool, nor to the practice of any mechanical or mercantile act. Dedicated only to leisure and laziness, this is a truly barbarous people. They depend on their livelihood for animals and they live like animals........

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 30, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
Í presume the previous post was about Mayo!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 11:45:15 PM
Í presume the previous post was about Mayo!

The Brits didn't come near Mayo back then.  ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographia_Hibernica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographia_Hibernica)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 30, 2015, 11:53:56 PM
Quote
he spent most of this first visit in Waterford and Cork. During his second visit he visited Dublin, Wicklow, Meath, Kildare and, possibly, Athlone and Lough Derg


That explains a lot
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 04:57:18 AM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

I'm not, she was black, if she had been a cracker they would have hung her out to dry!!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 05:12:51 AM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!

So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

Eh no! I never suggested that at all at all, merely pointing a fact is all.

I grew up in the north and know all about policemen shooting to kill, the same rules need to apply to all citizens and they are upheld by the vast majority of cops, even the RUC had a few decent men in their ranks!

I do not know what the answer is here, I do know that men should not be dying in police custody and that policemen need to be retrained and go through rigorous training to ensure they have the tools to safely arrest citizens without harm to themselves or the person getting arrested, how you do that remains to be seen.

Looters are the scum of the earth and deserve to be harshly punished, as do cops that shoot citizens dead with no apparent reason other than the color of their sking, not near good enough!




Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:19:00 AM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Still clinging on to the whole slavery thing and using it as a tool to blame everything and everyone else for their circumstances.
and who doesn't like some five fingered discounts at your local CVS?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 07:22:38 AM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

When your talking about disproportionately, you will also know that there is a Disproportionately larger amount of young black men in organized crime gangs. Yes there are also Hispanic, Asian and other gangs and in this area (Bay Area) Hispanics are definitely targeted more by cops whether it be for Gang activity or legal status. Cops shouldn't kill people in their custody but likewise they need to be able to do their jobs without the fear that they could killed over a traffic violation.

One thing for sure there is much more tension in the air everywhere over here. Everyone has to be much more careful about what they say, the way things are worded, even down to the recruitment policies in companies. Looters are thugs whatever color and the Al Sharpens of the world need to cop on and stop defending this sort of stuff.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:06 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.

Tell that to my black friend who got a traffic ticket for failing to yield to some invisible pedestrians in a crosswalk.

Tell that to my black friends who get pulled over by the cops nearly every single day for no f***ing reason.

Tell that to my ex's BF who gets pulled over every day while driving his Lexus and is often asked "did you steal this?" (He's a former pro footballer. But as far as the local cops are concerned he's a suspect.)

Tell that to the black dude who keeps getting prosecuted for "trespassing" at the store where he works.

Tell that to the black professor who was arrested while walking up to the front door of his own house in a nice neighbourhood.

Quote
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

Yes, quite. Don't tell me. You're "not racist...?"

Quote
The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.


Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.

If only that were true...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius)

How is it so difficult to see the parallels with our own community not so long ago?

Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 08:25:26 AM
I was on a work course in Europe last week and one of the other attendees was an Irish guy who's based in our office in Seattle. We got to chatting about politics/race/religion etc (he loves getting to vent when working outside the States as all the topics taboo in the office). He's a very liberal, openly gay guy but when it came to talking about race relations and incidents like Freddie Gray and Michael Brown, I couldn't believe his position. Whether it's due to poor quality reporting or some other reason, his understanding of the Brown shooting was that Brown had committed an armed robbery and subsequently pointed a gun at the cop Darren Wilson, as a result of which "there wasn't anything dodgy about it at all." I was gobsmacked.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:51:55 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.

Tell that to my black friend who got a traffic ticket for failing to yield to some invisible pedestrians in a crosswalk.

Tell that to my black friends who get pulled over by the cops nearly every single day for no f***ing reason.

Tell that to my ex's GF who gets pulled over every day while driving his Lexus and is often asked "did you steal this?" (He's a former pro footballer. But as far as the local cops are concerned he's a suspect.)

Tell that to the black dude who keeps getting prosecuted for "trespassing" at the store where he works.

Tell that to the black professor who was arrested while walking up to the front door of his own house in a nice neighbourhood.

Quote
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

Yes, quite. Don't tell me. You're "not racist...?"

Quote
The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.


Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.

Oh yawn bloody yawn!
I suppose in your mind Freddie Gray was studying Greek Literature at Harvard and volunteered at the Animal Rescue shelter in his spare time.
 
As for the scenarios you might want to cut and paste a little better. One glaring error in there.
and don't forget to label ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:04 AM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:38 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...


You can just imagine a Thatcherite sitting in their living room in the 1970s drinking tea saying the exact same thing
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 09:19:32 AM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.

It is amazing to see some Irish people take the Trevelyan view. Particularly regarding a people who were brought there against their will, in slavery. Just like the Irish were sent in slavery to the Caribbean (http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Barbados-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870). And just like the aristocratic British viewed the Irish in Ireland as lazy, useless vermin, these Irish react in horror when the rodents have the nerve to challenge the foot on their throats. And of course it is 'their fault' for forcing us to put a foot on their throats.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on May 01, 2015, 09:38:36 AM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
+1

I'm shocked at some of the ignorant views posted on here. I must be naive but I always had the idea that as a people we would identify with the underdog or downtrodden due to our history, I was obviously wrong.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on May 01, 2015, 11:03:17 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on May 01, 2015, 11:17:32 AM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.


+1

I'm shocked at some of the ignorant views posted on here. I must be naive but I always had the idea that as a people we would identify with the underdog or downtrodden due to our history, I was obviously wrong.

The amount of mindless, vicious and mostly casual racism at large in this country is not widely understood, I think. And it's not just among the uneducated. I play tennis with group of middle-aged fellas, from many walks of life. Most of them would consider themselves educated. The amount of racist attitude revealed in casual conversation is surprising. The latest example was one of them saying he has specified that when he dies, his death must be certified by two doctors, one of whom must be white.

The good news is that these attitudes appear to be non-existent in the younger generation (at least the educated ones).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 01, 2015, 12:39:59 PM
Having lived in the USA for 7 years, and having travelled quite a bit around the world, I can honestly say that Australia and the USA are the 2 most racist countries that I have visited. How the descendants of immigrants treat fresh immigrants is horrible.

As the saying goes, "The cow soon forgot it was a calf"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 01, 2015, 12:47:03 PM
This is what Donald Rumsfeld had to say about looting in Iraq a few years ago:

"While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime," he said. "And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom."

Rumsfeld said in the United States there has been looting and riots and they eventually come under control.

"Think what's happened in our cities when we've had riots and problems and looting. Stuff happens!"


http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2003/04/11/Rumsfeld-Looting-is-transition-to-freedom/63821050097983/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9l73Yo9Pw

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 01:44:01 PM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.

Liberalism is pure and true and Republicanism is nasty and evil, so sayeth the majority of the gaaboard so it must be true!!!! :'(
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:33:42 PM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.

And it's all one way traffic? When are you moving to Oakland?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Denn Forever on May 01, 2015, 03:38:35 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or Ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Well the UDA have had tough since  the GFA.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or Ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Well the UDA have had tough since  the GFA.

Besides the tea parties at the Aras :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 04:56:18 PM
Officers charged with murder, misconduct and manslaughter.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 05:05:59 PM

Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.

Ehhh... He was in prison for Drug Dealing. His own Brother-in-law stated that he was a drug dealer still so not sure why your pretending he wasn't or distorting the truth.

It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hid that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 05:08:54 PM
It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hide that.

just so I'm clear what has the length of his rap sheet got to do with this?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 05:54:49 PM
It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hide that.

just so I'm clear what has the length of his rap sheet got to do with this?

If you put yourself into dangerous positions due to your activities there is a risk factor involved. If he had been shot or killed by another gang you would never have heard of him.

Take a look at this chicago website - have to say it's very impressive. The stats are very telling - now where is the daily news coverage?

http://heyjackass.com/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:03:02 PM
what do you make of the allegations made by another prisoner in the van who said Freddy was trying to injure himself?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:09:32 PM
what do you make of the allegations made by another prisoner in the van who said Freddy was trying to injure himself?

He has since clarified his remarks and said that the police mis-quoted him. He is adamant that Freddy Grey was not trying to injure himself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.

Here's the best part. Freddy Grey didn't even do anything illegal or anything wrong. All he did was made eye contact with an officer and took off running. Looks a little odd, but hardly illegal, no grounds for arrest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.

Oh yeah, what did Freddie Gray do?

And no, I am not nervous of black men. I've been in NYC for more than a decade straight now, and never, ever have I had any problems. I am careful not to go to certain areas at certain times, but that could apply in any town or city with any race of people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
I am careful not to go to certain areas at certain times, but that could apply in any town or city with any race of people.

and which neighbourhoods would these be?

Those hipster areas are very dangerous at nighttime.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 06:37:43 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

When your talking about disproportionately, you will also know that there is a Disproportionately larger amount of young black men in organized crime gangs. Yes there are also Hispanic, Asian and other gangs and in this area (Bay Area) Hispanics are definitely targeted more by cops whether it be for Gang activity or legal status. Cops shouldn't kill people in their custody but likewise they need to be able to do their jobs without the fear that they could killed over a traffic violation.

One thing for sure there is much more tension in the air everywhere over here. Everyone has to be much more careful about what they say, the way things are worded, even down to the recruitment policies in companies. Looters are thugs whatever color and the Al Sharpens of the world need to cop on and stop defending this sort of stuff.

What is the right wing fixation with Al Sharpton? You can't talk to any of them in the US without Sharpton coming up within a minute or two.

Is it fair that blacks are far more likely to go to prison and get longer prison sentences for the same drug offenses as white people?

Young black men are more than 20 times as likely to be killed by police as young white men. Is there any evidence that they're 20 times more likely to commit a crime or do something that warrants being killed by police?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:40:45 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.

So what you're telling me is that he wasn't a drug dealer
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:41:29 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.
he was hardly an angel Eamonn?
Granted he didn't deserve to die but he wasnt the model citizen you're championing either...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:46:23 PM
he was hardly an angel Eamonn?

Well, he was black, now that you mention it...
Quote
Granted he didn't deserve to die but he wasnt the model citizen you're championing either...

Ah, there's the "but" again. There's always a "but" isn't there?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
now you're twisting. You are suggesting he was lifted for nothing. You are suggesting he was put in to the bus and lifted just for looking at the police. You are suggesting he had a clean record and was a model citizen. His only crime was being black type shit.
You have already documented how you feel about the police and I think you're letting that sway your judgement in this case.

This lad did not deserve to die. No buts or ands about about it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 01, 2015, 06:55:41 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

Excellent post ET; well said.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:15:53 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.

Serious charges too.

Proveable? We will see.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:16:51 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
Quote
look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

That is fairly clear Whitey - even to people like me who are obviously cognitively challenged. But it is a red herring.

A man went whole into the back of a police vane and came out his spine snapped. No human being deserves that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:26:37 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.

Do a little research my friend.....it's called Cambridge Rindge and Latin School.....Ben Afleck and his brother both attended the same school.

As for it being brilliantly answered......brilliantly answered if you don't know your @rse from your elbow-Lol
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
True - you don't know your arse from your elbow. Thanks for admitting it, and we can both get on with our lives, as it is clear by your evasion you won't answer the thrust of either of my posts.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:30:58 PM
Quote
look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

That is fairly clear Whitey - even to people like me who are obviously cognitively challenged. But it is a red herring.

A man went whole into the back of a police vane and came out his spine snapped. No human being deserves that.

You are 100 percent correct and I sincerely hope justice will be served. If you have $20 spare, or get it in the library....read An Invisible Thread.....most people couldn't even comprehend what these inner city kids are faced with growing up

(Boston Marathon Bombing a very sore spot for me for a variety of reasons in case you can't tell)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 07:45:06 PM
now you're twisting. You are suggesting he was lifted for nothing. You are suggesting he was put in to the bus and lifted just for looking at the police. You are suggesting he had a clean record and was a model citizen. His only crime was being black type shit.
You have already documented how you feel about the police and I think you're letting that sway your judgement in this case.

This lad did not deserve to die. No buts or ands about about it

More twisting than Chubby Checker.
Any sign of that apology yet Eamonn?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:49:19 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.

Serious charges too.

Proveable? We will see.

Probably not provable, some sort of lesser charge will be proven, in due course.
But it needs to initiate some sort of official audit of people bouncing around in Black Marias.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:01:34 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
I said type of emigrant....I did not say that they were the typical emigrant.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:13:14 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
I said type of emigrant....I did not say that they were the typical emigrant.

Ok, one family went bad.  So what?



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:34:48 PM
Any sign of that apology yet Eamonn?

Quiet.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:43:32 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

Must be a pain in the neck to have such a short memory. I've highlighted your own racist words in your own post above.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:43:40 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.

Did you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

 You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.   

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but to flippantly dismiss the opinions of Irish immigrants as "wanting to pull up the ladder" behind them is disingenous to day the least

BTW...I used to live about 1/4 mile from where this happened

http://www.dotnews.com/2011/man-critical-following-shooting-nahant-avenue
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:46:00 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

Must be a pain in the neck to have such a short memory. I've highlighted your own racist words in your own post above.

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: Whitey
Did you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

 You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 08:58:46 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:06:42 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:08:38 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: Whitey
Did you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

 You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.

So you think that everyone who emigrates does that out of a sense of adventure.....you need to get out more

I actually helped out a lad from the North as best I could last year. Lost everything is the crash and as a self employed person qualified for about £30 dole per week if I recall correctly. (Some guy went belly up owing him about £200k)

Wife and 2 kids and about to lose his house back hime, he came out for 3 months to see if he could dig out of a hole, but without transport just couldnt make a go of it. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:11:12 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.

Here's the best part. Freddy Grey didn't even do anything illegal or anything wrong. All he did was made eye contact with an officer and took off running. Looks a little odd, but hardly illegal, no grounds for arrest.

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:25:15 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:35:14 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 01, 2015, 09:56:50 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
All these charges are that charges nothing else , the weak da and mayor did this to appease the rioters and we will see the final judgement later.


Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:02:05 PM

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.

Oh dear. You really only remember one word out of the whole sentence? Here are your words again:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Do you see it yet? No? Let's try again...

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Got it yet? How are you getting on? No? Still struggling? Allow me:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:04:05 PM

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

Doing back-breaking to pick food out of the fields to feed your ungrateful face isn't contributing to society?

Changing the sheets on your hotel room bed so you can stay overnight at bargain prices isn't making it a better place?

Working more hours than there are daylight isn't sacrificing for their families?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:06:16 PM

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

So on what grounds was he arrested then? On what charge, exactly? Come on, Matlock. Tell us!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 10:07:19 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?

You really need to read your own posts.

And tell me, if you are such a success, how come you are lecturing us on how dangerous it is where you live,?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:07:48 PM
Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

And what threat, prey tell, did Mr Grey present when cuffed and lying on the floor in the back of that van?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:12:07 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?

You really need to read your own posts.

And tell me, if you are such a success, how come you are lecturing us on how dangerous it is where you live,?

How did you do in English in the Junior Cert? Do you understand the difference between past, current and future tenses?    I pointed out where I USED to live..... 20 years ago ...ie the neighborhood where the guy from Conemara got murdered (and where that lad from the North I helped out last year lived for the 3 months he was out here trying to save his house)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:19:53 PM

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.

Oh dear. You really only remember one word out of the whole sentence? Here are your words again:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Do you see it yet? No? Let's try again...

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Got it yet? How are you getting on? No? Still struggling? Allow me:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Lazy, dishonest, entitled, drug taking, criminal. I think that would be a good starting point for describing the Tsarnaev family. Nowhere did I mention their race...which from what I can tell is the same as yours and mine. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:23:48 PM
Okay, porcine apologists. Let's hear you justify this. Girl gets drunk, gets abusive, how do you restrain her? Cuff her? Or slam her to the ground face first and break several bones in her face?

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor (http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor)

If the Guards acted like these jack-booted thugs you'd be up in arms.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 10:25:48 PM
It is not hard to understand the stresses of being a officer of the law in a country where there is almost universal availability of guns to those that want one. It is also not difficult to understand the heightened levels of stress in attempting to police areas where the police are in no way seen as welcome and where there is a very real threat of violence towards the police simply because of their occupation.

I do have a few questions.

why is the fact that Gray had a record relevant in his death? I genuinely don't understand why that is continually mentioned.

Where do you live that you are nervous riding the subway at night?


p.s. http://grammarist.com/usage/loose-lose/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.

So when do I get my apology?  I see you decided to change tack and attack whitey instead to deflect the fact that YOU'RE WRONG

see we can all do large font....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:40:57 PM

why is the fact that Gray had a record relevant in his death? I genuinely don't understand why that is continually mentioned.


I can't understand how you can't understand. Fairly obvious to me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

Unfortunately the expanded welfare state had has the unintended consqeuence of attracting people to come who dont want to work.......they want to work the system

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/20144530/2012/11/20/lawmakers-outraged-over-fed-welfare-ebt-push-for-immigrants

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2013/04/case-worker-illegal-aliens-got-food-stamps-by-the-vanload/

http://www.floppingaces.net/2012/04/24/obamas-welfare-nation-ebt-cards-now-being-used-for-bail-money/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:50:29 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.

So when do I get my apology?  I see you decided to change tack and attack whitey instead to deflect the fact that YOU'RE WRONG

see we can all do large font....

What apology?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:55:12 PM

Where do you live that you are nervous riding the subway at night?


p.s. http://grammarist.com/usage/loose-lose/
[/quote]

One of biggest Irish enclaves in Boston is Adams Village in Dorchester. Great neighborhood but you have to ride the Red Line to get there. Havent lived there for close to 20 years, but you had to be very cautious rising at night.....

Looks like not too much has changed

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/14/teen-charged-in-crime-spree-near-red-line-stations/

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/05/31/fights_break_out_at_carson_beach/

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/01/04/police-use-iphone-tracking-app-find-and-arrest-suspected-teenage-robbers/qFTS5YRZF8yIZVaWU9IlHN/story.html
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:58:37 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.
 
Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

An apology for saying this before you corrected yourself by saying he was dealing.

as Muck Savage pointed out you've just lost credibility
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 11:02:14 PM
Apparently, in the eyes of some people here, having the opinion that cops shouldn't murder the people they're employed to protect makes you "a left wing nut". I just give up altogether.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:24:45 PM

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

So on what grounds was he arrested then? On what charge, exactly? Come on, Matlock. Tell us!

First you say he was't a dealer, then you say he sold a "wee" bit of weed. Now your asking why a known drug dealer, who just ran from the cops for no reason was arrested. Your all over the place man, maybe they needed to do a cavity search.

My point is your making a known Drug dealer out to be a Saint when he's not, I say again he didn't deserve to die but do pretend he was a saint.
 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:35:42 PM
Okay, porcine apologists. Let's hear you justify this. Girl gets drunk, gets abusive, how do you restrain her? Cuff her? Or slam her to the ground face first and break several bones in her face?

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor (http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor)

If the Guards acted like these jack-booted thugs you'd be up in arms.

And she was WHITE - I'm heading to the City now, lets loot the shops around Market and O'Farrell tonight

What should we do Eamonn, abolish the Police force and let everyone police themselves?
Lets see what happens in Oakland in a few weeks if the Dubs win the NBA title...... Lets see what excuses are used then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 11:47:45 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?

You're right it is double standards but tbf, the guys who uphold the law have to be held to higher standards than the sc**bag you're talking about. From what I've read on this (and it's not that extensive) the story isn't that the cops were in some way scared for their safety in this case?

I get what you're saying (or at least what I think you're saying) that the cops in these type of situations (albeit not this one) shoot because they (rightly or wrongly) fear for their lives. And that has a certain logic to it when viewed from their side of things. But when viewed from the other side (non-white who may or may not have broken the law), it's basically an attack by the state based on your skin colour.  How to reconcile those two views is another matter,  it probably comes down to the acceptance of guns in American culture, the more people who have guns, the more likely someone is to get shot.

For me, the parallels with the British army / RUC in the north believing every second Catholic was an IRA gunman are hard to escape.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 11:56:29 PM
So maybe we should just have black cops police the black neighborhoods and white cops police the white neighborhoods.  That would solve everything
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 12:17:49 AM
Gil Scot Heron summed a lot up in this poem

Whitey On The Moon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 04:45:11 AM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!

Ain't that the truth...bleedin' heart liberals.
Drug dealers are scumbags. end of story. I don't care what colour they are.
ditto violent thieves.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:28:15 AM
Here's a sample of life in what conservatives call "post racial America":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:32:45 AM
What should we do Eamonn, abolish the Police force and let everyone police themselves?

Of course. The only alternative to bloodthirsty paramilitary cops shooting all around them is to abolish the police and let us live in a Mad Max environment. As is the case in the black-and-white binary world of the conservative mind, it has to be all or nothing. There's no happy medium. There's no such thing as police being professional or obeying the law while upholding it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 02, 2015, 06:34:37 AM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!

Ain't that the truth...bleedin' heart liberals.
Drug dealers are scumbags. end of story. I don't care what colour they are.
ditto violent thieves.

Thats all well and good, but the likes of gallwhatever and wee Eamon on here have you pegged as an idiot, right wing uncaring piece of shite, they complicate the fact that these guys they hold up are dope dealing mothafuckas or thugs that beat and steal for a living, guess what................... If you do neither you will have nothing to worry about regardless of race, color or creed!

Liberals like these gentlemen are accountable for nothing, they are apologists for the lazy and the inept and they throw dirt and twist the words of people who call a spade a spade, in all my time on here that Gallsman is the worst of the worst, the king sewer rat, he spews liberal bile and is the boards leading moral coward in my humble opinion!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 02, 2015, 06:38:03 AM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.

This is what I hate about you c***ts! Why cant you actually say what you mean, that right wingers are racist scumbags!

Stop effing around and say what you mean  for the love of all that is holy!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 07:23:37 AM

There's no happy medium.

Do you mean that you can't be SORT OF a drug dealer or SORT OF a violent thief.  ???

Keep making excuses for the ignorant.

You still haven't said when you are moving to Oakland to live in the ghettos. Such fancy talk from your ivory tower


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:29:18 AM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.

That's a different discussion entirely.

I was referring to people who are coming here LEGALLY....hence my use of the term "let in"......and then going on welfare, as opposed to previous generations who came LEGALLY and worked their way into the middle class. 

When I came, I had to sign a form that stated I was ineligible for any form of welfare.

(Of the 3 examples I gave on the abuse of welfare, I did used one example of illegals abusing the system, but that example was used to prove that despite what Democrats will tell you, immigrants DO  in fact get welfare)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

I know you play fast and loose with logic but given at no point when calling you out on your racism did I reference the cops in any way, I'm not sure how you think I've drawn that conclusion.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2015, 11:52:43 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

At least Stew can acknowledge a point. In fact I think Stew half agrees with most points, but feels obliged to attack what he thinks are 'liberals'. The polarised view of the world in the US (them and us) is a very hard box to think outside of.

The others can't make a coherent argument between them. They just rant idiotically. In fact they make the case against themselves better than anyone else.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: maigheo on May 02, 2015, 12:12:42 PM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.
Give it a rest GHD.Go start another thread about this subject and rant away to your hearts desire
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 01:26:59 PM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.

I'm sure the citizens of France, along with the poor bastards who were in the concentration camps would disagree with you on this point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

It does kinda F*** up the argument.
Or maybe they are uncle toms.

I see gall is calling names...what age is he?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
In fact I think Stew half agrees with most points,

The others can't make a coherent argument between them. They just rant idiotically. In fact they make the case against themselves better than anyone else.

I was wondering when you were going to stick your beak in...not like you to miss an opportunity to dish out your infinite wisdom on every f****** subject.

So you are now a mindreader as well Muppet? Or just want to talk for other people instead and what they *might* think...

If you want to read back on this thread I think its Eamonn who's had the flimsy case...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 09:54:33 PM
It's not rocket science, the police should go out and arrest drug dealers and  the like, if they have been committing crimes. Then should then bring them to the station promptly and charge them, not bounce them around in a van for an hour.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
It's not rocket science, the police should go out and arrest drug dealers and  the like, if they have been committing crimes. Then should then bring them to the station promptly and charge them, not bounce them around in a van for an hour.

Why is this opinion considered unreasonable or lily-livered pinko thinking?

How is killing the arrestee even arguable?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

You can be prejudiced towards people of the same race, especially when you're probably getting abused by some of them for being a black representative of a police force with a poor relationship with the community. You can embrace a institutional ethos that treats young males of your own race with heightened suspicion and brutality.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:46:32 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: Whitey
Did you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

 You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.

Was thinking of Mr Coll myself!

And what of all those ethnic organized crime groups?

Or the Irish draft riots and black lynchings in NYC during the Civil war.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:52:13 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?

Where is the double standard?

The suspect was killed. He did not escape justice.

And I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid if a cop had shot an armed suspect in the midst of a robbery. Happens every day.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:20:35 PM
I see a cop was shot in the head in New York yesterday. The 5th NYPD officer shot in the past 5 months. Reports that the police are going to start burning buildings in Time Square as as of yet unconfirmed.

Obviously I am being a smart arse, but this is the report. Every black man in America should be cursing this f**king idiot. This is exactly the sort of thing that cops point to when people rightly call them on over aggressive policing.

http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/ (http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 07:29:10 PM
I see a cop was shot in the head in New York yesterday. The 5th NYPD officer shot in the past 5 months. Reports that the police are going to start burning buildings in Time Square as as of yet unconfirmed.

Obviously I am being a smart arse, but this is the report. Every black man in America should be cursing this f**king idiot. This is exactly the sort of thing that cops point to when people rightly call them on over aggressive policing.

http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/ (http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/)

Everyone everywhere should be cursing the f**king idiot. He is a lowlife sc**bag and thankfully they seem to have caught him and he will face justice properly.

Hopefully Officer Moore makes a full recovery.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:32:09 PM
I mean in the context of what we are talking about here. The reason why some cops feel like they can shoot black men indiscriminately/feel nervous or threatened when dealing with 'suspicious' black men (delete as applicable) is precisely this. It's contributing to the whole vicious circle over there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 07:38:23 PM
I mean in the context of what we are talking about here. The reason why some cops feel like they can shoot black men indiscriminately/feel nervous or threatened when dealing with 'suspicious' black men (delete as applicable) is precisely this. It's contributing to the whole vicious circle over there.

I understand your point, but I think they are in the wrong job if they think they can just shoot first and and ask questions later. That is simply a return to The Wild West. I notice in some of the more extreme cases of cops shooting black men, where it is subsequently shown there was little or no threat, the cop is on his own. If things are so dangerous wouldn't it be better to have them working in pairs?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
"In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do."

Full article:

Quote
Only justice and equality will fix America’s race problem

BY GARY YOUNGE

On November 26, 2007, Brandon Moore, an unarmed 16-year-old, was shot in the back while running away from a security guard in Detroit. The guard made it look like sport. “[He] put one arm on top of the other arm and started aiming at us,” Brandon’s brother John Henry, who was with him at the time, told me. “Brandon wasn’t involved in anything. He was the last one to take off running, I guess.” The shooter was an off-duty policeman with a history of brutality. Sacked from the force after he was involved in a fatal hit-and-run accident while drunk-driving, he was reinstated a few years later on appeal. He went on to shoot dead an armed man in a neighbourhood dispute, and shot and injured his wife in a domestic fracas.

The story got a paragraph in Detroit’s two daily newspapers. Neither even bothered to print Brandon Moore’s name. The policeman was reassigned to a traffic unit until he was cleared by an “investigation”. The cold-blooded killing of Walter Scott, who was shot eight times in the back as he ran away from a policeman in North Charleston, South Carolina, is not news in the conventional sense. Such shootings are neither rare nor, to those who have been paying attention, surprising. Sadly, they are all too common. It is news because, thanks to the video footage, we have incontrovertible evidence at a moment when public consciousness has been heightened and focused on this very issue. While in this case the policeman involved has been fired and charged, such a degree of proof is no guarantee of justice. There was video evidence of police choking Eric Garner to death in Staten Island while he protested “I can’t breathe”, and his killers were acquitted; there was video of evidence of Rodney King’s beating in Los Angeles, and his assailants walked free. But in an era of 24-hour news and social media, video guarantees attention.

Black people have been dying for this kind of attention for years. Michael Brown died for it; Kajieme Powell died for it; Tamir Rice died for it ; Justus Howell died for it. The roll call could go on — and until something fundamental changes, not just with American policing but in the American psyche, it will get longer. The fact that Scott was killed on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King’s assassination makes stark the distinction between the reality of the post-civil rights era and pretensions to a post-racial era. The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. You wouldn’t have a hashtag that said #blackmencanplaybasketball or #blackmusicmatters, because only the most deluded would ever deny that. But the reason #blacklivesmatter has resonated is because it succinctly summarises the current contradictions. We can celebrate a black president, black professors, black astrophysicists and black tennis players all we want. But the issue of the sanctity of black life has still not been settled .

Brutality of the police

The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. And so Scott’s murder stands not simply as an outrageous and horrific incident in its own right but as an emblem for all the Brandon Moores who have gone down in a hail of bullets to deafening silence; a proxy for a reign of racial terror that has not been removed since the civil rights era but merely refined; a harsh illustration of a system that both systemically criminalises working-class black communities and, on occasion, cavalierly condemns those who live in them to summary execution. It lends a name and a moving image to those who have perished unnamed and unseen, and whose deaths could not move the nation’s conscience.

“I have witnessed and endured the brutality of the police many more times than once — but, of course, I cannot prove it,” wrote James Baldwin in 1966, in A Report from Occupied Territory . “I cannot prove it because the Police Department investigates itself, quite as though it were answerable only to itself. But it cannot be allowed to be answerable only to itself. It must be made to answer to the community which pays it, and which it is legally sworn to protect, and if African Americans are not a part of the American community, then all of the American professions are a fraud.” The fact that the country is at least recognising this issue is heartening. But what it took to get it there is sickening. For this is the standard of proof necessary to force a reckoning with contemporary racism.

This is what it takes to thwart a conversation about the ostensible shortcomings in black culture, from parenting to rap music, which — some claim — make such policing inevitable and instead concentrate on the pathology of state violence. If all young black men bought a belt and pulled their trousers up tomorrow, they still wouldn’t be able to outrun a trigger-happy cop’s bullet. The bar is so high, and the capacity for empathy so low, that apparently no amount of statistics and personal testimony can convince a critical mass of white Americans that the problem is not African-Americans claiming victim hood but their being victimised.

In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do. In The Audacity of Hope, US President Barack Obama recalls sitting in the Illinois senate with a white legislator watching a black colleague (whom he refers to as John Doe) explain why eliminating a certain programme was racist. “You know what the problem is with John,” the white senator asked him. “Whenever I hear him, he makes me feel more white.” “[His] comment was instructive,” Obama reflected. “Rightly or wrongly, white guilt has largely exhausted itself in America.”

Guilt, of any racial variety, never achieved much anyhow (even if it did, there are therapists for that). It won’t close the pay gap, the unemployment gap, the wealth gap or the discrepancy between black and white incarceration. It won’t bring back Walter Scott, Trayvon Martin or Brandon Moore. It’s not guilt that people are demanding but justice and equality. Only then will a tragic incident such as this be news for the right reason — because it is both rare and unexpected, not because someone was in the right place at the right time with a Samsung and a conscience.

— Guardian News & Media Ltd
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Eamonn, are people saying that all cops are racist, and targetting blacks? Or are they saying they are over zealous in their shoot to kill policy on black suspects, or black criminals that are known to them?

I can't accept that all cops are racist, even the black ones, nor can I accept that a large number of them are.

What I can accept is that a large number of cops would rather shoot a suspect if they felt in the slightest threatened of their own life. In many ways I can sympathise with that view, but it's not really a good outlook for someone who is supposed to 'protect and serve'.

Obviously I can also accept that there are a small number of cops who would just look for any excuse to shoot a black suspect, but I think they are in the minority.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 04, 2015, 12:09:18 AM
It's not as simple as are they racist or not, AZ.  A lot of the time cops are put into neighbourhoods that they have no connection to or understanding of.

I lived in East Harlem for 8 years, and one night, July 4th, I was having a party in my apartment.  Coming back from the shops, several cops pushed in behind me and got into the elevator, without asking.  They left one of their buddies behind.  These guys, it turned out, were not long out of the academy, and were from Long Island.  They had never set foot in the neighbourhood until that night, and were there for the overtime, it being Independence Day.  As the lift was going up, they were laughing about how they had thrown the guy left behind "to the wolves."  They kept asking why I lived here; they were amazed that a white guy would live in this part of the city.  They may have been decent enough types, but they were completely inappropriate for the neighbourhood.  They clearly had no experience of minority-white neighbourhoods, and going by their chat, not much experience of being around black/hispanic people.

I've no reason to think these guys were particularly racist, but given how nervous they were, I wouldn't have liked to see them have to handle any tense situation that night.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 09:54:11 PM
I know it's not as simple as that Jell, I'm just asking what the perception is among the people rioting or protesting against the police. My take on it is that the various PDs in the states are not inherently racist, but the societal issues over there are leading to a lot of tense scenarios where police officers are shooting unnecessarily, partly out of fear for themselves.

Other officers I'm sure are racist and are delighted to have a chance to act out on it, but I don't think that number is in any way high. That's why I'm curious about what the protestors really believe.

That cop in New York died by the way. An Irish American as well, not unusually in the NYPD. RIP to him. His name is Brian Moore.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
I know it's not as simple as that Jell, I'm just asking what the perception is among the people rioting or protesting against the police. My take on it is that the various PDs in the states are not inherently racist, but the societal issues over there are leading to a lot of tense scenarios where police officers are shooting unnecessarily, partly out of fear for themselves.

Other officers I'm sure are racist and are delighted to have a chance to act out on it, but I don't think that number is in any way high. That's why I'm curious about what the protestors really believe.

That cop in New York died by the way. An Irish American as well, not unusually in the NYPD. RIP to him. His name is Brian Moore.

Yes, its all over the news right now in NYC about Officer Moore.

As for what is driving the protests... surely it is the experience of the black communities at the hands of the police? The city of Baltimore, for example, has had to dish out millions of dollars in compensation to victims of police brutality in the past few years. And whether or not policies such as Stop and Frisk help drive down crime in poor neighbourhoods, they also antagonize and embitter the people who can't go about their lives without being repeatedly stopped and hassled by police for no reason other than their skin colour. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

Read the Blindside or The Invisible Thread and much will be revealed
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

But the cops, who get plenty of leeway if you talk to any of them, HAVE to follow the rules as agents of the law, surely?

And of course policies such as Stop and Frisk are based around poor neighbourhoods, which, in many US cities, happen to be predominantly black. But where does that leave the majority of black people who are law-abiding, yet are continually harrassed by cops when they've done nothing? Or see people they know go down for far more severe sentences than white people get for the same crimes?

I don't know what the answer is. But what is happening isn't working.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:27:21 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

But the cops, who get plenty of leeway if you talk to any of them, HAVE to follow the rules as agents of the law, surely?

And of course policies such as Stop and Frisk are based around poor neighbourhoods, which, in many US cities, happen to be predominantly black. But where does that leave the majority of black people who are law-abiding, yet are continually harrassed by cops when they've done nothing? Or see people they know go down for far more severe sentences than white people get for the same crimes?

I don't know what the answer is. But what is happening isn't working.

Of course they have to follow the rules, but that's my point. The frustration level must be huge when they are constrained and the opposition isn't. If the rules break down though, we'll be back to Wyatt Earp.

The bit in bold, I think we all agree :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 06, 2015, 01:57:55 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

What is a resist c***ts?

Tit, show me were I have been racist not resist you abomination of a human being!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 06, 2015, 02:04:02 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

I never said that they were there for the taking and I resist being called a resist you absolute tosser!!! )


Prove me a racist, I f**king dare ya you useless bastard!!

Ya cant because I am anything but!

You liberal piece of shite, prove me a racist Gallsman!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 08, 2015, 01:45:49 PM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.


The f**k he does, he is, apart from a certain Kerryman, the most ignorant hoor on this board!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 08, 2015, 02:28:07 PM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

I know you play fast and loose with logic but given at no point when calling you out on your racism did I reference the cops in any way, I'm not sure how you think I've drawn that conclusion.

Evidence of alleged racism please Gallbladder!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: LeoMc on May 21, 2015, 01:52:20 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 21, 2015, 01:56:14 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 




For some reason that photo reminds me of Junior football.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2015, 01:58:54 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 




I thought a few of the bikers WERE killed by the cops?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2015, 04:55:20 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 21, 2015, 06:11:44 PM
i think the surprising thing about gun crime in the US is that there is not more. when there are 89 guns per 100 (highest in the world)people in the country, and the incarceration rate is the highest in the world, with over 2.2 million prisoners you would expect this to happen more...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2015, 06:24:00 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.

Was reading about her.

Very sad.  :'(
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 21, 2015, 06:47:29 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.

Was reading about her.

Very sad.  :'(

Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on May 22, 2015, 03:20:05 AM
Really shocking and very sad

Highlights another issue in the US that affects many many people, and that is lack of Maternity Leave for mothers. This poor woman was working after giving birth because she wanted to spend her vacation time (or scant maternity leave) with her baby and not use it up while her baby was in hospital.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2015, 02:10:16 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on June 01, 2015, 06:42:57 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.
.

That's f**king terrifying.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 01, 2015, 08:27:44 AM
Loopers. Why were you thinking of me??. Oh I get in now. I didn't realise it was Phoenix. Not surprised.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: DuffleKing on June 01, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
Loopers. Why were you thinking of me??.

Islamophob
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 01, 2015, 09:09:50 AM
Is that like my Centra key fob that gets me points when I spend money?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 01, 2015, 04:09:46 PM
pure hatred right there.... too many extremists in this country.
I'm a big fan of the police. I'm happy they are on the streets out here. They get a bad rep but for the most part they do a great job. They can be heavy handed at times but they have a saying better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Given the same position with my life on the line,  I don't know if I would think any differently...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2015, 07:23:40 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.
.

That's f**king terrifying.

There are a lot of stupid people on the planet.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
http://mediatakeout.com/274988/neighbors-call-police-when-too-many-black-teens-show-up-to-a-pool-party-in-texas-and-cops-brutalize-the-teens-blacklivesmatter.html (http://mediatakeout.com/274988/neighbors-call-police-when-too-many-black-teens-show-up-to-a-pool-party-in-texas-and-cops-brutalize-the-teens-blacklivesmatter.html)

This cop should be jailed. A complete nut job. Thankfully he didn't fire his gun.

How does someone like this end up on a police force? Seriously?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-texas-police-pool-party-video-205421706.html (http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-texas-police-pool-party-video-205421706.html)

Cop on 'administration leave'.

The girl he threw on the ground is 15.

The neighbour who phoned the cops complaining that there were too many blacks there (if that is in fact what happened) should be done for a hate crime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/mckinney-texas-pool-video/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/mckinney-texas-pool-video/index.html)

Here is what another cop said: "But David Wagner said the officer's action was justified.

"Outside of being a little rough with the girl, I think the officer responded correctly," he posted on the page. "He was vastly outnumbered and the crowd was hostile. They could have overrun him and taken away his weapon. By drawing his weapon he was able to get the crowd to retreat.
"

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:17:04 PM
the first time I watched it a bunch of people did in fairness come rushing at him. On first pass one fella put his hand to his shirt line and it may have been judged at the time as going for a weapon. On second pass he was hitching them up or something but who knows in the heat of the moment?
I might be able to justify pulling the weapon when outnumbered and at risk of being taken but I can't justify his antics running around and handcuffing people and throwing a girl to the ground and detaining her like that.
They should have brought the K9 unit in. No need for guns - crowd will disperse very quickly and handlers are less highly strung than that idiot
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:43:09 PM
I've watched it a couple of time now. The cop is the problem. Look at everyone else in the video, including his colleagues. The scene is cam and the other kids even returned something that the cop dropped to another cop. It is all fine until our hero goes crazy. He is ordering all the black kids onto the ground, ignoring the white kids. The kids all seem to know each other and are talking be the cop is treating them completely differently. He then loses the plot completely shout ing obscenities before dragging the 14 year old girl and throwing her around.

There is no justification for his behaviour and he should not hold any position of authority.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:10:30 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.

 ::)

You asked the question. Failing to comply with an officer and giving backchat. If she was smart she'd have shut up and left the scene.
Now where's uncle Al and Rev Jesse??? This is NCAAP gold for TV propoganda.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.

 ::)

You asked the question. Failing to comply with an officer and giving backchat. If she was smart she'd have shut up and left the scene.
Now where's uncle Al and Rev Jesse??? This is NCAAP gold for TV propoganda.

We know, you would have shot her, and probably some of the others.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:19:48 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

He was shouting randomly 'get your ass out of here'. He had compellable lost his mind.

Hardly anyone left. He then grabbed the black girl, out of a group with white kids who hadn't left either, by the head and threw her on the ground and assault her.

I am shocked that anyone can defend this.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:20:51 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

Now now whitey - if you've forgotten already the police are supposed to stand back for fear of being labelled - just like the Baltimore riots recently

People like muppet seem to encourage that stance.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:21:42 PM
We know Fox, you would have shot her.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

He was shouting randomly 'get your ass out of here'. He had compellable lost his mind.

Hardly anyone left. He then grabbed the black girl, out of a group with white kids who hadn't left either, by the head and threw her on the ground and assault her.

I am shocked that anyone can defend this.

Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:25:57 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: theskull1 on June 08, 2015, 07:27:39 PM
How to raise a black son in America

http://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_how_to_raise_a_black_son_in_america?language=en (http://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_how_to_raise_a_black_son_in_america?language=en)

Surely this resonates with anyone who grew up in the north?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:28:52 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:29:02 PM
We know Fox, you would have shot her.

I don't think that's the correct solution

She should be tried by the courts if she was found guilty of an offence or the officer should be tried and dismissed if he's found to be in the wrong. It's quite simple.

You're quite hysterical muppet...


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:32:05 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

The other kids stood doing exactly what she did.

The video had nothing to do with a bar in Boston. It is kids on the street being policed by a rabidly racist cop. He ignored the white kids who were actually filming him, so he could handcuff the black kids for standing up. And you see nothing wrong with that naked racism?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
Meanwhile residents in the area put this up. Why were the cops called in the first place?


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:45:43 PM
Meanwhile residents in the area put this up. Why were the cops called in the first place?




Because some kid posted his pool party on social media and half the town showed up. This has happened in Ireland but we managed without any police brutality to the kids involved.

But of course you wouldn't be bothered if he shot her.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:48:34 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

The other kids stood doing exactly what she did.

The video had nothing to do with a bar in Boston. It is kids on the street being policed by a rabidly racist cop. He ignored the white kids who were actually filming him, so he could handcuff the black kids for standing up. And you see nothing wrong with that naked racism?

Direct quote from a black guy who lives in the neighborhood.

“This is not a racist neighborhood,” said Benét Embry, a local radio personality who lives in the area and witnessed the incident. “There are a lot of good people in this community. It’s unfortunate that an event like this brings the spotlight.”

Embry, who is black, said he appreciated the police officers’ speedy response in calming a rowdy situation.

“That’s what they are supposed to do: protect us. I don’t know any other way he could have taken her down or established order,” he said.

Embry said that teenagers who do not live in the neighborhood started jumping over the fence to get to the party and were causing a disturbance. He said Dajerria was talking back to Casebolt.

“She’s bringing more stress into an already volatile situation,” Embry said. “Out of a hundred kids, you probably had seven who are acting the fool. They totally spoiled it for everybody else.”
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 08:01:41 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

I wonder would muppet change his tune if hundreds of teens invaded his neighbourhood and were on his property.   ;)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 08:14:43 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.

keep changing the subject and youll end up back where you started
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:18:55 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.

keep changing the subject and youll end up back where you started

How have I changed the subject?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on June 08, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on June 08, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.

He has no business being in a position of authority and is unfit to be a policeman in my opinion, if I was black I could never have faith in this man, I have none and I am white!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 01:30:31 AM
He badly needs to learn how to deal with a crowd. It was a non-threatening situation and he made it into something more.

If he were in a genuinely difficult situation, he's likely to shoot someone imo
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 09, 2015, 03:34:54 AM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.

He has no business being in a position of authority and is unfit to be a policeman in my opinion, if I was black I could never have faith in this man, I have none and I am white!

Agree 100% Stew.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2015, 05:21:20 AM
What amazes me is how quickly everyone assumes, like the cop did, that it was the black kids who were "causing a disturbance."

So how do the klan grand wizards and chief dragons explain this...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 09, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
What amazes me is how quickly everyone assumes, like the cop did, that it was the black kids who were "causing a disturbance."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk)

Depends if you believe her side of the story. She states that everyone at the event were local or classmates but other reports talk of the party being advertised on facebook.
As Muppet stated earlier these kids were invading residents property and jumping fences - I think that could be deemed a disturbance.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 12:37:35 PM
Not sure where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread for it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0609/706833-albert-woodfox/

The bit about the state wanting to re-try him stinks of people not wanting to admit their mistakes
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 09, 2015, 12:41:34 PM
Not sure where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread for it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0609/706833-albert-woodfox/

The bit about the state wanting to re-try him stinks of people not wanting to admit their mistakes

"the judge also listed his "lack of confidence in the state to provide a fair third trial"

Wow. Some statement from the judge.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 10, 2015, 06:53:57 AM
Jumped fences, eh? Well that settles it. Shoot the blackguards!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 01:15:59 PM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

"He came into the call out of control and as the video shows was out of control during the incident," McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley told a news conference. Casebolt tendered his resignation on his own, Conley added.

"I had 12 officers on the scene, and 11 of them performed according to their training. They did an excellent job," Conley said.

Fair play to the Chief. I think he has called it correctly.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 02:39:31 PM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were fvckin Irish Americans, as white as you or I

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened when they didnt comply?

Youve got it....they had the handcuffs slapped on them!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on June 10, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
Did they all resign afterwards, then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 10, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

the officer should be tried and dismissed if he's found to be in the wrong. It's quite simple.


Screen - as above....

I understand why you may have missed that since Muppet and eamonn scream a little too loudly ...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 02:56:22 PM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were white

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened.....when they didnt comply they had the handcuffs slapped on them and they were as white as I am

I'm not even getting into the racist thing you guys were trying to say that the officer used appropriate force. . . the police chief doesn't think he did and obviously the officer upon reflection realised he didn't either.

Also as stated by the police chief there were another 11 officers on the scene who didn't have to resort to the 'takedown' of a 14 year old like their colleague did. She was a 14 year old girl in a bathing suit why on earth did the officer have to throw her around like a rag doll and rub her face in the pavement?!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:07:22 PM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were white

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened.....when they didnt comply they had the handcuffs slapped on them and they were as white as I am

I'm not even getting into the racist thing you guys were trying to say that the officer used appropriate force. . . the police chief doesn't think he did and obviously the officer upon reflection realised he didn't either.

Also as stated by the police chief there were another 11 officers on the scene who didn't have to resort to the 'takedown' of a 14 year old like their colleague did. She was a 14 year old girl in a bathing suit why on earth did the officer have to throw her around like a rag doll and rub her face in the pavement?!

You may not have been taking the rascist angle but others were

She was instructed to leave the area at least 4 times and failed to comply on each and every occasion.

If you or I did the same we would have had a similar or worse outcome than she did....I have seen it with my own eyes
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does? 

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 04:44:12 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Oh jesus he pulls out Hannity!!!!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/sean-hannity-mckinney-cop-had-to-defend-himself-from-being-shanked-by-pool-party-teens/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:08:27 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

LOL-so after watching that interview and hearing the questions directly (even from Hannity)  do you still stand by your previous assertion that it was an incident fuelled by rascism?  Yes or no
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:13:51 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

 Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

LOL-so after watching that interview and hearing the questions directly (even from Hannity)  do you still stand by your previous assertion that it was an incident fuelled by rascism?  Yes or no

I wouldn't watch Hannity if he was the last TV on earth.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:18:24 PM
How convenient
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:21:51 PM
How convenient

You go to Fox News chief right-wing lunatic Hannity to try to prove it wasn't racist!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You might watch that crap but don't expect the rest of us to.

Here is what the guy who took the video said:

Brandon Brooks, who posted the videos to YouTube, said in the original video’s description, “A fight between a mom and a girl broke out and when the cops showed up everyone ran, including the people who didn’t do anything. So the cops just started putting everyone on the ground and in handcuffs for no reason. This kind of force is uncalled for especially on children and innocent bystanders.”

.....

The teen who filmed the video, who is white, agreed. He can be seen in the video walking around and talking to the black teens, who are being forced to sit on the ground, without the Casebolt saying anything to him.

Brooks told Buzzfeed, “Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic. [The cop] didn’t even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible.”



Hannity me arse.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:35:45 PM
How convenient

You go to Fox News chief right-wing lunatic Hannity to try to prove it wasn't racist!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You might watch that crap but don't expect the rest of us to.

Here is what the guy who took the video said:

Brandon Brooks, who posted the videos to YouTube, said in the original video’s description, “A fight between a mom and a girl broke out and when the cops showed up everyone ran, including the people who didn’t do anything. So the cops just started putting everyone on the ground and in handcuffs for no reason. This kind of force is uncalled for especially on children and innocent bystanders.”

.....

The teen who filmed the video, who is white, agreed. He can be seen in the video walking around and talking to the black teens, who are being forced to sit on the ground, without the Casebolt saying anything to him.

Brooks told Buzzfeed, “Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic. [The cop] didn’t even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible.”



Hannity me arse.

LOL...changing the subject again....now trying to make it about Hannity

The guy did interviews all over the place....that one was the one that popped up first, probably due to view count. 

Heres one he did on CNN......or is it against your religion to watch CNN too??

Of course some people are going to say its racist, but theres a different POV from equallly credible sources saying the complete opposite but your completely ignoring them

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PClAOQ7ZMok

Oh, by the way hes now getting death threats for saying it wasnt rascist
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:19:23 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:30:09 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.

Well given that you wont watch the Hannity video, we may as well leave it there. 


I guess the "it" bikini girls dad is referring to could be construed as the entire incident not the incident specific to his daughter. If theyre quoting bikins girls dad, and Im going on the assumption that theyre referring to his daughters takedown

They spend significant time talking about and disceting the Casebolt incident on the Hannity video.

Im not defending his actions....Im just saying that they arent rascist....and several African American eyewitnesses say the same thing as me and several white witnesses have the same opinion as you
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:38:10 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.

Well given that you wont watch the Hannity video, we may as well leave it there. 


I guess the "it" bikini girls dad is referring to could be construed as the entire incident not the incident specific to his daughter. If theyre quoting bikins girls dad, and Im going on the assumption that theyre referring to his daughters takedown

They spend significant time talking about and disceting the Casebolt incident on the Hannity video.

Im not defending his actions....Im just saying that they arent rascist....and several African American eyewitnesses say the same thing as me and several white witnesses have the same opinion as you

Why was Casebolt only aggressive with the black kids?

As for Hannity.

I wouldn't watch FOX News if I was being tortured. It is a source of serious embarrassment to me that names like Hannity & O'Reilly, good Irish names, are so prominent on such a despicable channel.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

Wha?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

Wha?

Usually the only ID they will take from foreigners. It doesn't matter what age you are, even if you are obvious north of 80.

Haven't encountered it regularly anywhere other than Boston.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:40:38 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

Yeah, but you look like a Paddy. They probably thought you were collecting funds for Noraid :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

Yeah, but you look like a Paddy. They probably thought you were collecting funds for Noraid :)


If they'd asked, I'd have split the money with them.  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 11:44:12 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

You'd have just shot him straight away wouldn't you?

No need to bother with an boring arrest or a costly court process. Just shoot them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does in Fox News land. And maybe North Korea.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2015, 07:31:20 PM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.

Don't remember Boston being that bad TBF although I did get refused a couple of places (I wasn't 21 at that time)  May have got stricker since.

San Diego on the other hand was a total nightmare, I actually got refused a couple of places with a passport, not an acceptable form of ID apparently :D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 07:42:42 PM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.

Were ye drunk and roaring and shouting as you came up the street? Or were ye wearing wife beater tee shirts? 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2015, 08:59:44 PM

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

I think we actually have had a few campaigns over the last few thousand years #everyoneslivesmatter

some of the celeb sponsors have been #Jesus #Mohammed (#nopics!) #Gandhi #buddha and a few other well known commies and lefties.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 09:00:41 PM
So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Please quote where I stated that.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 09:21:30 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

Some of the worst atrocities against the Irish in Ireland were carried out by Irish people. But they were carried out on behalf of the British.

By your logic the Brits were never guilty of anything against the Irish.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 09:21:57 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

I think this is were we disagree. For me his innocence or guilt is irrelevant to his treatment while in police custody. Moreover, it seems to me it is irrelevant to the rest of the article. That line could read that he was a known drug dealer, as you put it, and the entire rest of the article would stand as written.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 09:38:03 PM
I think this is were we disagree. For me his innocence or guilt is irrelevant to his treatment while in police custody. Moreover, it seems to me it is irrelevant to the rest of the article. That line could read that he was a known drug dealer, as you put it, and the entire rest of the article would stand as written.

I agree with that. Should not have happened.
But the media portrayal and with your article saying that he was a random citizen being picked on by the police for no particular reason is misleading of the facts.
The police have a tough job to do to keep the streets safe. Without enforcing the law and catching criminals it wouldn't be liveable for everyone else. Look what happens in the streets when police don't intervene...riots and looting galore, and that would be just the start of it.

Maybe they need more social workers and can wheel out the "come from a broken home" excuse for the behaviour.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

Some of the worst atrocities against the Irish in Ireland were carried out by Irish people. But they were carried out on behalf of the British.

By your logic the Brits were never guilty of anything against the Irish.

Changing the subject again I see
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:10:01 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

Dog whistle....shmog whistle

Are some cops bullies?   Yes

Are some cops rascist? Absolutely

Are some cops thundering ar$eholes? Bet your life they are

But is EVERY incident between cop and a person of color rooted in Rascism-not on your life!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:14:19 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

I merely stated that the article failed to mention that he was a known offender (a drug dealer in this case), not picked on at random for his colour. But you can twist it whatever way you like if it suits you.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....if you're black

Yes, very easily fixed - did that for you.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 11:28:48 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It’s true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It’s not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

Dog whistle....shmog whistle - na,na,nana, na - playground stuff, ignore the point.

Are some cops bullies?  Yes - and this bullying is usually directed towards people of colour

Are some cops rascist? Absolutely - please, enough with the one bad apple defence, how much does "some" have to be before you describe the institution as racist rather than the indivduals?

Are some cops thundering ar$eholes? Bet your life they are - I'd rather they all be assholes on an equal opportunities basis than "some" being racist regularly

But is EVERY incident between cop and a person of color rooted in Rascism-not on your life!!! - Not every incident has to be based on racism for a lot of racist incidents to have taken place. If the standard for institutional racism to exist is that every arrest has to be based on that, then you're basing your argument on the exception rather than the rule, making it impossible to prove that there is any problem a all - but then you knew that, didn't you?

You nearly got there Whitey, nearly got there... but Roger Ailes would be proud of your logic towards the end.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2015, 11:55:42 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Probably highlights how alot of people misunderstand how police forces are setup in America

To answer Muppets point America is a much more diverse place than Ireland socially, economically, culturally and so based on these needs police coverage is a lot more fragmented in America than in Ireland. So many cities setup their own departments so they can have more control of the police force based on the localised requirements and expectations of law enforcement.

Where I live the beach cities have their own police force so that the police are well rehearsed in the needs of tourists and what is acceptable for tourists to do and maybe have a gradual escalation of enforcement. Whereas in the more urban areas police are straight in deal with things quickly and abruptly b4 a situation gets out of hand. If these standards were applied to the beach cities they would very quickly have no tourists. On the other hand if the Beach cities police standards were applied to south central they would be taken advantage of and do very little enforcement

I imagine Universities have them for similar reasons as a university campus is a unique environment with unique requirements for law enforcement
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Ah Jaysus Muppet you're losing the plot completely-LOL. I never said that the cops werent the problem-I said that every incident involving an officer and a person of color was not necessarily based on race. (And this article proves that point to a tee)

When  I did make  the point about the Boston cops hammering the $$hite out of a bunch of people (male and female I might add) outside a bar for failing to comply with an order, you jumped down my throat and said that that was t relevant to what happened in TX.

Now you're saying that not alone is police brutalityrelevant, but that's it's the crux of the issue.

So now you're actually agreeing with me


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:13:23 AM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Probably highlights how alot of people misunderstand how police forces are setup in America

To answer Muppets point America is a much more diverse place than Ireland socially, economically, culturally and so based on these needs police coverage is a lot more fragmented in America than in Ireland. So many cities setup their own departments so they can have more control of the police force based on the localised requirements and expectations of law enforcement.

Where I live the beach cities have their own police force so that the police are well rehearsed in the needs of tourists and what is acceptable for tourists to do and maybe have a gradual escalation of enforcement. Whereas in the more urban areas police are straight in deal with things quickly and abruptly b4 a situation gets out of hand. If these standards were applied to the beach cities they would very quickly have no tourists. On the other hand if the Beach cities police standards were applied to south central they would be taken advantage of and do very little enforcement

I imagine Universities have them for similar reasons as a university campus is a unique environment with unique requirements for law enforcement

In my area.....town police, State Police, County Sherrifs (really only do prisoner transport) Environmental Police (enforce fishing regulations) Harbormaster (enforces town bylaws as they pertain to leisure watercraft) MBTA Police (if I take the subway into Boston) Amtrak Police (if I take the train to Amtrak Train to NYC) Park Police (responsible for National Parks) Postal Police (at the Main post office downtown Boston. There's probably some other ones I'm missing
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Rossfan on June 12, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
What's " a person of color(sic)"?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:29:45 AM
What's " a person of color(sic)"?

Remember years ago Rossfan there used to be tinkers in Ireland.........and you wouldn't find a t**ker now to save your life........

Kinda the same thing here with the evolution from Negro to Colored person to black person and now (probably all Obama fault) were almost back to colored person again with "person of color". In case you didn't know American keyboards are missing the "U" key
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 03:12:15 AM
12 year-old black kid plays with a toy gun in a park. Cops show up and he's dead within two seconds. Let's hear your justification for this summary execution, you banjo-playing rednecks:

Quote
Tamir Rice: judge finds cause for murder charge over police killing of 12-year-old

A judge in Ohio said on Thursday he had found probable cause to charge a police officer with murder for the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice last year.

Judge Ronald Adrine of the Cleveland municipal court said there were grounds to prosecute officer Timothy Loehmann with murder, manslaughter, reckless homicide and negligent homicide.

Adrine also found there was probable cause for a charge of negligent homicide against officer Frank Garmback, Loehmann’s partner, who was present when Tamir was shot at a park on 22 November while holding a pellet gun.

Tamir Rice
 Tamir Rice. Photograph: Facebook
The judge’s recommendation, however, was brushed aside by Timothy McGinty, the Cuyahoga County prosecutor, who pledged to proceed as planned with having a grand jury decide on whether the officers should be charged.

“This case, as with all other fatal use of deadly force cases involving law enforcement officers, will go to the grand jury,” McGinty said in a statement. “That has been the policy of this office since I was elected. Ultimately, the grand jury decides whether police officers are charged or not charged.”

In a 10-page order, Judge Adrine wrote that after viewing surveillance video, which shows Tamir being shot dead within two seconds of Loehmann’s arrival, he was “still thunderstruck by how quickly this event turned deadly”.

The judge said Tamir was given “little if any time” to respond to any commands from the officers, that his arms were not raised, and that he made no “furtive movement”. Adrine wrote: “Literally, the entire encounter is over in an instant.”

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Adrine noted that his role remained “advisory in nature” and that any charges must be brought by prosecutors for the city of Cleveland or Cuyahoga County.

However, Walter Madison, an attorney for Tamir’s family, said on Thursday that he knew of no legitimate impediment to a prosecution and that Loehmann and Garmback should be arrested and arraigned in court.

“We are very much relieved and it is a step towards procedural justice and people having access to their government,” Madison told the Guardian.

The judge’s finding followed community leaders taking advantage of a little-known law to appeal directly to the judge to commence a prosecution of the officer, as is permitted in Ohio and a few other states.

The Counted: people killed by police in the United States in 2015 – interactive
The Guardian is counting the people killed by US law enforcement agencies this year. Read their stories and contribute to our ongoing, crowdsourced project
 Read more
“State law does provide an avenue for a private citizen having knowledge of facts to initiate the criminal process,” Adrine wrote in his order.

Madison said the judge’s finding showed “the police are public servants and not the public’s master”.

In a statement issued through their attorneys, the Rice family said the eight community leaders who filed affidavits to the judge accusing the officers of murder had “provided a blueprint for the nation to follow in addressing many of the relationship problems between African Americans and law enforcement”.

Loehmann shot Tamir dead while responding to a 911 call claiming Tamir was pointing his pellet gun. The caller noted the gun was “probably fake”, though it is unclear if that information was shared with the officers.

Adrine noted in his order on Thursday that the video shows the officers’ patrol car was “still in the process of stopping when Tamir is shot”, that for four minutes “neither officer approaches Tamir as he lies wounded on the ground”, and that they physically restrained Tamir’s sister when she tried to reach him.

An investigation into the shooting by the Cuyahoga County sheriff’s office has been completed and handed to the office of McGinty, the county prosecutor.

Clifford Pinkney, the county sheriff, said his office had conducted an “extensive, thorough and unbiased investigation” based on thousands of documents, multiple interviews and reconstructions of the incident.

The decision to proceed with a grand jury in Tamir’s case has prompted anxiety among his family’s supporters, who argue that the format lacks transparency and favours police officers in controversial cases.

A grand jury in St Louis, Missouri, last year declined to indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old in August. The following week, a grand jury in New York decided not to indict a police officer who caused the death of Eric Garner, an unarmed black man, by placing him in a chokehold.

Earlier this year Barack Obama’s White House policing taskforce recommended that all fatalities caused by law enforcement officers be investigated by independent prosecutors to avoid potential conflicts of interest among local authorities.

Full story including the shocking video:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/11/tamir-rice-police-officer-murder-charge (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/11/tamir-rice-police-officer-murder-charge)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 12, 2015, 03:18:10 AM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....

You completely ignored the "same crime" bit, which was the point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 05:10:36 AM
Anybody who says black people should "just obey the law and no harm will come to them" would need to spend a day in America living as a black person to see what it's like. Here's probably the best example I've seen of how differently blacks and whites are treated in this "post racial America" that the right wing media keeps talking about. Two people do the exact same thing: openly carry an AR15 rifle in the street in a state where it is legal to do so. Watch the different reactions from the police and come back to me with your theories about why racial prejudice has nothing to do with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 12, 2015, 10:59:42 AM
I imagine there is an ingrained sort of racial profiling alright. Imagine if it was a guy from the middle east!?!

The unfortunate fact though, is that there is a high level of crime among poor black areas, which is a societal issue. On the front line, a cop might not be considering societal issues, or might be buck ignorant and unwilling to bother. Some of them undoubtedly see black skin as the equivalent of gang colours.

That is wrong, but in some highly charged situations, I would have sympathy for cops who feel they are in danger. I also feel this explains the fact that quite a few cops involved in questionable incidents are black too, so I feel pure racism (Black Guy is inferior to White Guy) is not the issue, it's more that they are almost assuming a higher propensity to violence if the suspect is black, no matter the colour of the officer.

I feel no sympathy for this bully in Texas, and he is right to fall on his sword, and I'm glad the PD doesn't try to defend him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:33:49 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Ah Jaysus Muppet you're losing the plot completely-LOL. I never said that the cops werent the problem-I said that every incident involving an officer and a person of color was not necessarily based on race. (And this article proves that point to a tee)

When  I did make  the point about the Boston cops hammering the $$hite out of a bunch of people (male and female I might add) outside a bar for failing to comply with an order, you jumped down my throat and said that that was t relevant to what happened in TX.

Now you're saying that not alone is police brutalityrelevant, but that's it's the crux of the issue.

So now you're actually agreeing with me

You said 'The one pertinent fact that was left out' was that the cop was black. You thought this turned the story on its head. It doesn't. IT still shows cops being overaggressive to an unarmed black man.

You finally expanded your story on what you witnessed outside a bar in Boston. So what? Post up a video till we have a look. It might prove that cops can be overaggressive to white Irish people too, who knows. You won't tell us. I had made the point that his is also about class, but class is easiest identified by colour where you are.

You seem to think that because you saw cops beating up some people that this makes them beating up blacks ok.

And you think this is an argument?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:44:54 AM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on June 12, 2015, 02:11:59 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.

So let me explain. Every city in the US has their own police force. A lot of the universities in the US have as many people as as city and in the case of a private college the grounds are private so they need their own police force. They are needed to keep the place for young kids, first time away from home, underage drinking and of course women from being attacked.

I'm not going to try to defend the Texas cop last week however I do think he felt threatened when he pulled the gun when the crowd went in to save the girl (from looking at the video I think he pulled the gun on a white guy who could have been taken for reaching for a gun).

I don't believe that all these incidents are racially driven. There's a huge PR push behind the 'blacklivesmatter' campaign and are ready to jump on every incident. Cops today are under huge pressure, pull a gun early and get hammered in the media, pull it too late and you could end up dead. The reason that there are so many black men incarcerated is not because of racist cops but because of government/social reason. If the PR people put as much focus on this they would save a lot more black lives, but that's not glamorous or easy for some of the activists.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 02:19:03 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/wmex_backing_host_michele_mcphee_in_oui_assault_counts

Headline in Boston Herald this morning-LOL

Local Right Wing Radio Host arrested for OUI, resisting arrest and assaulting a state trooper.  Took 3 troopers to subdue her and get the cuffs on resulting in her requiring 20 stitches

#fatwhitedrunkchickslivesmatter

And I have about as much sympathy for her as I had for bikini girl
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 04:23:59 PM
Anybody who says black people should "just obey the law and no harm will come to them" would need to spend a day in America living as a black person to see what it's like.

Why not give us a report then? You never answered me about when you plan to move to Oakland.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 04:25:46 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/wmex_backing_host_michele_mcphee_in_oui_assault_counts

Headline in Boston Herald this morning-LOL

Local Right Wing Radio Host arrested for OUI, resisting arrest and assaulting a state trooper.  Took 3 troopers to subdue her and get the cuffs on resulting in her requiring 20 stitches

#fatwhitedrunkchickslivesmatter

And I have about as much sympathy for her as I had for bikini girl

Someone broke the law and deserves to be charged. Wait a minute......  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 06:32:04 PM
And what, prey tell, does my location have to do with the racism of cops? Hmm?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 08:08:13 PM
And what, prey tell, does my location have to do with the racism of cops? Hmm?

You mentioned that we should walk a mile in another man's shoes. At least you should try it first and then give us a report of how it goes. Or do you like pontificating from the ivory tower too much?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:09:44 PM
He tells black people to just stop getting shot and them asks me about life in the ivory tower.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 08:54:38 PM
He tells black people to just stop getting shot and them asks me about life in the ivory tower.

Have fun in Oakland. Can't wait to hear how you get on....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
I hang out in Oakland occasionally. What of it?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:03:21 PM
I hang out in Oakland occasionally. What of it?

Which neighbourhoods?  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.

So let me explain. Every city in the US has their own police force. A lot of the universities in the US have as many people as as city and in the case of a private college the grounds are private so they need their own police force. They are needed to keep the place for young kids, first time away from home, underage drinking and of course women from being attacked.

I'm not going to try to defend the Texas cop last week however I do think he felt threatened when he pulled the gun when the crowd went in to save the girl (from looking at the video I think he pulled the gun on a white guy who could have been taken for reaching for a gun).

I don't believe that all these incidents are racially driven. There's a huge PR push behind the 'blacklivesmatter' campaign and are ready to jump on every incident. Cops today are under huge pressure, pull a gun early and get hammered in the media, pull it too late and you could end up dead. The reason that there are so many black men incarcerated is not because of racist cops but because of government/social reason. If the PR people put as much focus on this they would save a lot more black lives, but that's not glamorous or easy for some of the activists.

I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:18:46 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on June 13, 2015, 09:36:10 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

Eamonn - He actually responded to a statement that black people are more likely to be incarcerated than a white man for the same crime.
The response was "Easily fixed. Don't break the law..." , this would be a good first step for the majority of Black or White people in prison.

Your getting as bad as FOX with all the half truths and snippets put together to tell a story that suits the agenda

Whats your solution to addressing the problem?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2015, 01:44:26 AM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

Eamonn - He actually responded to a statement that black people are more likely to be incarcerated than a white man for the same crime.
The response was "Easily fixed. Don't break the law..." , this would be a good first step for the majority of Black or White people in prison.

Your getting as bad as FOX with all the half truths and snippets put together to tell a story that suits the agenda

Whats your solution to addressing the problem?

You accuse HIM of half truths??

The point, that foxcommander skips over, is the biased justice system and blacks being more severely punished that whites for the same things.

Although I don't get why Eamonnca would feel the need to explain it.

I think most people here are intelligent enough to see when someone ignores a valid argument or makes strawman arguments and is intellectually dishonest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2015, 01:32:27 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 03:48:20 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.

Gave me the best laugh of the weekend....I'm sure the Sharia police and Military dictators who run the countries the top 12 universities are located in would be well able to keep law and order-Lol
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2015, 03:48:43 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.

You should check out New Jersey. There is town after town, with no line between them except on a map, and they all have their own police force. You drive down the street from Jersey City into Hoboken and the only thing that might indicate you're in a different town is a sign saying "Welcome to Hoboken" or whatever, yet the sign divides two completely separate police forces. And then you throw in the Port Authority police in the same area who look after the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, PATH stations etc.

Of course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 04:01:20 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2015, 06:30:46 PM
Quote
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

I would point at the system.

Quote
Of course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.

This is a fair observation of the system. A country's police force has to be entirely separate from the political system. Many politicians can't help themselves and will try to interfere, and that is why the system has to be strong enough to protect against that. This happens everywhere, including and especially in Ireland.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 06:50:46 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.

Omagh you're comparing apples with cannonballs comparing a state wide ballot initiative with a proposition at the annual town meeting which  deals almost entirely with issue of budget. 

I wasn't clear enough in my statement, what I should have said was that if I felt the town needed an extra officer, I could table a motion that would allow the town to allocate the necessary budgetary dollars to allow that to happen.  Then at the town meeting, everyone registered voter gets their say, both for and against, including said professionals you alluded to.

What's the alternative...have a system like in Ireland where. Your only recourse is to call up Joe Duffy or Tommy Marren
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.

Omagh you're comparing apples with cannonballs comparing a state wide ballot initiative with a proposition at the annual town meeting which  deals almost entirely with issue of budget. 

I wasn't clear enough in my statement, what I should have said was that if I felt the town needed an extra officer, I could table a motion that would allow the town to allocate the necessary budgetary dollars to allow that to happen.  Then at the town meeting, everyone registered voter gets their say, both for and against, including said professionals you alluded to.

What's the alternative...have a system like in Ireland where. Your only recourse is to call up Joe Duffy or Tommy Marren

Huh??... I wasn't compering the two. I was using the ca props to highlight another example where the populace of America are too involved in making decisions for things that they know nothing about.
They should have input of course and those in charge should be accountable to that populace however but they should not be involved in the actual decision.

Are there only two choices? Ireland's and America's? Now that is apples and cannonballs! How about a democratically accountable technocracy?

Local issues should be dealt with locally however we live in an increasingly connected world where we deal less with our neighbours and more with people further and further away. To govern that we will need to have an increasingly centralised governance that deals with how to we connect to each other.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2015, 04:01:44 AM
There's advantages and disadvantages to localized policing, but I think the main problem is a lack of police accountability. Contrary to what Whitey says about Joe Duffy, in Ireland (north) you've got the office of Police Ombudsman, in the south you've got the GSOC. At least in theory you have independent bodies that you can go to that have the power to investigate the cops, so you have somebody to police the policemen.

In the US you've got the Department of Justice but that's very high up the ladder at federal level which probably makes it a bit inaccessible to the average joe with a complaint. Plus it probably depends on what kind of an administration is in the White House. I couldn't see a Republican administration being as keen to investigate police wrongdoing.

You could try complaining directly to the police department, but the conflict of interest there is obvious enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ)

If I were to put independent police ombudsmen in place in the states I'd say county level would be the best place for it. City level would be a bit too messy, plus you have some police departments that straddle various cities and even counties in some cases. BART police, which patrols the Bay Area Rapid Transit system, can be found in about half a dozen different counties and probably twenty different cities.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 15, 2015, 04:53:30 AM
Quote
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

I would point at the system.

Quote
Of course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.

This is a fair observation of the system. A country's police force has to be entirely separate from the political system. Many politicians can't help themselves and will try to interfere, and that is why the system has to be strong enough to protect against that. This happens everywhere, including and especially in Ireland.

Pretty much agree with everything you said there Muppet (no really) but...(just messin!)

Actually at the risk of getting off topic I would expand it even more and take politicians out of running things directly. They just aren't good at it.....they are good at getting elected but often know nothing about the fields they are running and are subject to short term trends, fashions, and misled public opinion that often aren't beneficial in the long run. I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2015, 06:34:21 AM
I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.

That's pretty much how local government already works in the states. Professional city staff do the technical homework, they produce reports and make their recommendations.

Council meetings are then held in public, city staff are represented by the city manager and city attorney. Elected council members can ask questions of city staff on their recommendations, members of the public can make their comments, and council votes on it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 16, 2015, 04:56:34 AM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

I do love the fact that you think people here can't read so you have kindly provided a synopsis for them.
It's a fairly inaccurate account with your half truths..but I guess you're trying to save face.
 
Let me know when you spend your day as a black man in Oakland and report to the board how the experience was. Maybe you can dress up like that Rachel Dolezal to get the authentic feel.
Unless you're all talk and no substance...  :-*
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 16, 2015, 05:16:00 AM
I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.

That's pretty much how local government already works in the states. Professional city staff do the technical homework, they produce reports and make their recommendations.

Council meetings are then held in public, city staff are represented by the city manager and city attorney. Elected council members can ask questions of city staff on their recommendations, members of the public can make their comments, and council votes on it.

Nah Eammon its not. They provide their recommendations based on their professional opinion. However then the politicians get to make the  decision based on whether or not they think this will help or dent their and their party colleagues chances of getting reelected. Its not about what is actually best for the community they are serving is about what is best for the politicians, the only time they are likely to make a decision that would be contrary to the opinion of their electorate is to line their own pockets
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2015, 07:09:46 AM
Good man, Fox. So now you want me to do the blackface thing as well, eh?

Maybe now would be a good time for you to tell us what point you're trying to make, because I'm damned if I know what you're waffling about.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 16, 2015, 06:26:53 PM
Good man, Fox. So now you want me to do the blackface thing as well, eh?

Maybe now would be a good time for you to tell us what point you're trying to make, because I'm damned if I know what you're waffling about.

You should try reading the thread again including my last post. Instructions were on there.
Don't ask someone to do something if you're not prepared to do it yourself first.....

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 04:48:46 AM
You're talking through your hat. You're telling me I need to go to Oakland, and live there disguised as a black man in order to have empathy for black people.

The fatal hole in that argument is that I need to do no such thing.  I already have said empathy for what they're going through. You clearly don't, as is evidenced by your simplistic "all you have to do is not break the law and you'll be fine" mantra.  If anybody needs to move to Oakland and live there disguised as a black man it's you, because you don't seem to have the empathy and compassion that decent human beings have.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 17, 2015, 06:00:28 AM
You're talking through your hat. You're telling me I need to go to Oakland, and live there disguised as a black man in order to have empathy for black people.

The fatal hole in that argument is that I need to do no such thing.  I already have said empathy for what they're going through. You clearly don't, as is evidenced by your simplistic "all you have to do is not break the law and you'll be fine" mantra.  If anybody needs to move to Oakland and live there disguised as a black man it's you, because you don't seem to have the empathy and compassion that decent human beings have.

I never said empathy.

Again more twisting and half-truths. People here can read you know.
You mentioned walking in another mans shoes to see how police would treat you if you weren't white. Go for it. Can't wait for the report. What part of Oakland will you be going to or should I mind my own business still?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 06:03:17 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 18, 2015, 04:20:33 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.

I wasn't telling you to go blacked-up to a poor Oakland neighbourhood to empathise with the local population.
I was kinda hoping you would go so you'd get your self-righteous ass pistol-whipped  ;D

But you knew not to go already......
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 10:09:29 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 05:02:25 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.

I wasn't telling you to go blacked-up to a poor Oakland neighbourhood to empathise with the local population.
I was kinda hoping you would go so you'd get your self-righteous ass pistol-whipped  ;D

But you knew not to go already......

Haven't heard from you in a while Eamonn, are you still safe and sound? - you didn't head over from the comfort of those nice SF Bistros and Gastropubs to prove your point did you?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on August 12, 2015, 08:03:45 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/05/woman-drives-car-into-goodwill.ktrk/video/playlists/caught-on-camera/ (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/05/woman-drives-car-into-goodwill.ktrk/video/playlists/caught-on-camera/)

Bizzarre confrontation between a cop and, well, it is hard to tell. Thankfully it didn't escalate.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 01:20:02 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 01:41:35 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/)

Should arrest more tennis players.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 12, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
Video of that 'arrest': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmR3zoD5ag (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmR3zoD5ag)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34751128

Where do you go from here?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 07:24:42 PM
Good Jesus, that is terrible. God rest his soul.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 07:54:37 PM
To answer your question "Where do you go from here?" - hope that the police force pursuing his killers are dedicated, efficient and implacable in their purpose. If, however, you are implying, Fox, that the savagery of this crime indicates a community which cannot be policed, then I'd have to disagree. You could never convince me that 99.999% of Chicago's population feel anything but revulsion and disgust for this act. But again, if that is not what you are implying (and it would be helpful if you clarified exactly what your question means) I am happy to be corrected. I do feel that this crime has very little to do with what we have been discussing on this thread, unless the implication I sense from your statement is actually the case.

The reason we hold police in democratic societies to higher standards of behaviour is for exactly situations like this. If they have the support and trust of the community, they have better odds of bringing these evil people to justice. If they have squandered that trust (and it certainly seems in America that trust between law enforcement agencies and the black community in particular is at a generational low) then not only is the crime harder to solve but the everyday life of the citizens is immeasurably deteriorated.

Finally, as absolutely awful as this act was ("unfathomable" was very apt) it does not nor should it be used to, extrapolate an entire community's behaviour. A large amount of mass shootings in America are carried out by young Caucasian men (with some notable exceptions). It doesn't tell us anything about those men as a demographic.

Everyone knows about Chicago's problem with crime and shootings - and perhaps the only sensible things you can take from the data is that poverty and the lack of economic opportunity lead to increased criminal behaviour (no brainer) and the easy availability of firearms increase the level of violence involved in criminal acts (even more of a no brainer, and I think I posted some figures on this earlier in the thread, or some thread related).

I would not want to have to police the South Side of Chicago - I think at times it would be a dangerous and thankless task. I equally would not want to live there in poverty, with very little societal support. And I especially wouldn't want the horrific death of a family member to be used a cheap debating point, proving that my own commmunity were incapable of acting in a civilized manner. Which I hope you're not doing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 07:59:19 PM
To answer your question "Where do you go from here?" - hope that the police force pursuing his killers are dedicated, efficient and implacable in their purpose. If, however, you are implying, Fox, that the savagery of this crime indicates a community which cannot be policed, then I'd have to disagree. You could never convince me that 99.999% of Chicago's population feel anything but revulsion and disgust for this act. But again, if that is not what you are implying (and it would be helpful if you clarified exactly what your question means) I am happy to be corrected. I do feel that this crime has very little to do with what we have been discussing on this thread, unless the implication I sense from your statement is actually the case.

The reason we hold police in democratic societies to higher standards of behaviour is for exactly situations like this. If they have the support and trust of the community, they have better odds of bringing these evil people to justice. If they have squandered that trust (and it certainly seems in America that trust between law enforcement agencies and the black community in particular is at a generational low) then not only is the crime harder to solve but the everyday life of the citizens is immeasurably deteriorated.

Finally, as absolutely awful as this act was ("unfathomable" was very apt) it does not nor should it be used to, extrapolate an entire community's behaviour. A large amount of mass shootings in America are carried out by young Caucasian men (with some notable exceptions). It doesn't tell us anything about those men as a demographic.

Everyone knows about Chicago's problem with crime and shootings - and perhaps the only sensible things you can take from the data is that poverty and the lack of economic opportunity lead to increased criminal behaviour (no brainer) and the easy availability of firearms increase the level of violence involved in criminal acts (even more of a no brainer, and I think I posted some figures on this earlier in the thread, or some thread related).

I would not want to have to police the South Side of Chicago - I think at times it would be a dangerous and thankless task. I equally would not want to live there in poverty, with very little societal support. And I especially wouldn't want the horrific death of a family member to be used a cheap debating point, proving that my own commmunity were incapable of acting in a civilized manner. Which I hope you're not doing.

I can do what I like, thank you for your concern.

How are the police supposed to keep law and order on a population that has absolutely no rules and respect.
If they are capable of this.....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2015, 11:10:06 PM
At least some are charged with their acts

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34754889
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2015, 03:25:12 AM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

I see you've pulled out the "R" card pretty easily to my response about law and order. And even if I was how does this affect you?
Are you faux morally outraged??

Your conditioning by the thought police/PC brigade has rendered you unable to see issues as they are in case you get labelled. Such ignorance makes allowances for criminal behavior which shouldn't be tolerated. The police have a tough job but in your eyes anyone who backs them is wrong in your opinion.

No wonder society is going to the dogs.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 08, 2015, 05:26:53 PM
How are the police supposed to keep law and order on a population that has absolutely no rules and respect.
If they are capable of this.....

To which population are you referring?

I wonder...

Maybe you mean Chicago? Illinois? United States?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 08, 2015, 08:30:23 PM
Absolutely no justification for this and yes the victims were black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVuyO85cINg&sns=em
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2015, 06:10:57 AM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2015, 08:41:17 AM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

You understand what the Republican Southern Strategy was, don't...


Oh wait, why do I bother? Of course you don't.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:11:30 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjABahUKEwjqmry5_4LJAhXEtQ8KHUBJBqE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenation.com%2Farticle%2Fexclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy%2F&usg=AFQjCNFUxueXNMe4t_VDtD2LoV4KKB8ZKg&bvm=bv.106923889,d.ZWU
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 11:36:39 AM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

FFS Stew, Lincoln  was 150 years ago, and is viewed with extreme  hostility  by a substantial  part of the "states rights"-loving GOP base these days, you know, the ones who try to deny the role of slavery as the primary  cause of the civil war.

And even if that WEREN'T  the case,  the racists deserted the Democrats and moved, en masse, to the GOP, between Goldwater and Reagan. It wasn't the equivalent  of modern liberal  Democrats who were lynching  and turning hoses on civil rights activists  and regular  black people .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2015, 03:31:52 PM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

While looking for something else (Muslim sportsman who refused to stand for the National Anthem) I found this site:

I know it isn't connected to the thread but some of the 'headlines' are priceless:

http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/ (http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/)

Evidence Emerges That Michelle Obama Never Birthed Malia And...

NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips…

Hillary Clinton Is OFFICIALLY Getting Charged With THIS… Her Campaigned Is Ruined..

Heroic Man Shuts Down 27,000 Mosques For THIS Reason...


It is like Waterford Whisper News, without the humour. But no matter how insane, or blatantly obvious, the naked hatred appears, you can see this sort of stuff works on some people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 04:04:55 PM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

While looking for something else (Muslim sportsman who refused to stand for the National Anthem) I found this site:

I know it isn't connected to the thread but some of the 'headlines' are priceless:

http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/ (http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/)

Evidence Emerges That Michelle Obama Never Birthed Malia And...

NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips…

Hillary Clinton Is OFFICIALLY Getting Charged With THIS… Her Campaigned Is Ruined..

Heroic Man Shuts Down 27,000 Mosques For THIS Reason...


It is like Waterford Whisper News, without the humour. But no matter how insane, or blatantly obvious, the naked hatred appears, you can see this sort of stuff works on some people.

f**k me. .. the comments on the Dion Waiters article!  :o

I wouldn't  mind, but the incident  occurred , and he issued a denial, four months before these halfwits discovered it! ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2015, 09:26:27 PM
That was written by an education professional? Holy f**k.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2015, 10:15:38 PM
 
Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

Socialism might destroy the country, but it is very doubt if Clinton will introduce anything of the sort.

NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips…

FFS, they are struggling to get microchips in their credit cards!



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 02:55:57 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

You still got faux outrage? As I said why do you get your panties in a twist?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 01:39:15 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

And not everyone is happy about the metal detectors

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6735290
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.
.

Vast majority of their funding comes from individual members

http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/

And the other side of the argument to give some balance

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13392



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 06:25:54 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 07:01:53 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

Ah ok. I misunderstood.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 07:16:34 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!

Actually the CNN piece lays it out pretty clearly that while Corp donations are important they are dwarfed by the individual contributions.  And CNN would hardly be viewed as a friend by the NRA

I'm sure there are some contributions that may fall into that gray area, but from what I have read, and from people I know who are NRA members,  contributions (both direct and indirect) from corporations are DWARFED by those of individual members

Just out of curiosity, what are you implying when you say "just look at whee the NRA gets its funding".
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 08:42:06 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!

Actually the CNN piece lays it out pretty clearly that while Corp donations are important they are dwarfed by the individual contributions.  And CNN would hardly be viewed as a friend by the NRA

I'm sure there are some contributions that may fall into that gray area, but from what I have read, and from people I know who are NRA members,  contributions (both direct and indirect) from corporations are DWARFED by those of individual members

Just out of curiosity, what are you implying when you say "just look at whee the NRA gets its funding".

I didn't find the CNN piece clear-cut at all.

Wasn't implying anything - just merely observing that the NRA's motives and campaigns were very probably dictated by the sources of their money. I'd no idea (and still dont after reading  those pieces!) where the bulk of their funding  comes from.

"Follow the money" is always safe advice!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 10, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
So a white College official is branded a racist by black students, some of whom are on the football team, they decide to hold the University hostage and refuse to play despite offering no proof that the man is a racist, in fairness they claim he is not doing enough to rid racism from the campus.

One kid goes on hunger strike to get him ousted and he invariably quits, caving to the pressure.

The lunatic left is running the asylum, now the Chancellor has resigned the day as well.


Limbaugh is claiming that the guy was fired for being white, as for me, I do not know if he was a racist but students making decisions on faculty could only happen under this President, it is madness!

I would have thought an investigation appropriate, and any student on a scholarship under me that told me they were refusing to play would have had their scholarship pulled as soon as they missed a practice!

These are dangerous times here in the States, this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2015, 09:33:54 PM
this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

Stew,
Obama may be the face of the country, but the large corporations are the ones first swaying and secondly pushing the big decisions, either through direct lobbying, or by influence through political donations. Look at the tax code for the evidence...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 09:34:53 PM
So a white College official is branded a racist by black students, some of whom are on the football team, they decide to hold the University hostage and refuse to play despite offering no proof that the man is a racist, in fairness they claim he is not doing enough to rid racism