The Palestine thread

[seafoid]

Antisemitism refers to  when Jews are weak and vulnerable. Eg beating up a rabbi in London on Sunday. That's antisemitic.
Criticising Israel's savagery has nothing to do with antisemitism.

[tiempo]

The most telling quote of all and very much still the mentality

Everybody has to move, run and grab as many [Palestinian] hilltops as they can to enlarge the [Jewish] settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them.

Ariel Sharon

[tiempo]

Antisemitism refers to  when Jews are weak and vulnerable. Eg beating up a rabbi in London on Sunday. That's antisemitic.
Criticising Israel's savagery has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Jews aren't the only Semites. Beating up an Imam in London is equally anti-Semitic, but the misappropriation and need to feed the propaganda machine and peoples general ignorance is priority from a Zionist pov.

[sid waddell]

Stuff like this needs to be highlighted much more because it's an easy rebuttal to those who talk about Israel supposedly wanting peace or supposedly wanting a two state solution - they don't

Netanyahu speaking in 2014:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/#ixzz392DqMJCW

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let's be polite, naive.

Netanyahu has stressed often in the past that he doesn't want Israel to become a binational state — implying that he favors some kind of accommodation with and separation from the Palestinians. But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. Why? Because, given the march of Islamic extremism across the Middle East, he said, Israel simply cannot afford to give up control over the territory immediately to its east, including the eastern border — that is, the border between Israel and Jordan, and the West Bank and Jordan.

The priority right now, Netanyahu stressed, was to "take care of Hamas." But the wider lesson of the current escalation was that Israel had to ensure that "we don't get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria." Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, "I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan."

[sid waddell]

Hamas itself was at least partly a creation of Israel itself, they funded it as an attempt at divide and rule

This is never brought up internationally

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

"Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a "counterweight" to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as "a creature of Israel.")

"The Israeli government gave me a budget," the retired brigadier general confessed, "and the military government gives to the mosques."

"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. "I ... suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face," he wrote."

[tiempo]

Stuff like this needs to be highlighted much more because it's an easy rebuttal to those who talk about Israel supposedly wanting peace or supposedly wanting a two state solution - they don't

Netanyahu speaking in 2014:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/#ixzz392DqMJCW

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let's be polite, naive.

Netanyahu has stressed often in the past that he doesn't want Israel to become a binational state — implying that he favors some kind of accommodation with and separation from the Palestinians. But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. Why? Because, given the march of Islamic extremism across the Middle East, he said, Israel simply cannot afford to give up control over the territory immediately to its east, including the eastern border — that is, the border between Israel and Jordan, and the West Bank and Jordan.

The priority right now, Netanyahu stressed, was to "take care of Hamas." But the wider lesson of the current escalation was that Israel had to ensure that "we don't get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria." Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, "I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan."

Without a shadow of a doubt they will put out whatever they need to appear conciliatory with every intention of carrying on as before when the ink is dry or the tape stops recording. Netanyahu is beyond untouchable now in terms of his war crimes and he knows it hence he carries on; he knows with his age he only has a few years left operating at this level and he's trying to mete out every last drop of punishment he can, he's trying to secure his legacy as one of the great Zionists.

This is an extermination attempt and a terrible stain on the legacy of the holocaust victims, survivors and peaceful Jews the world over.

[sid waddell]

Antisemitism refers to  when Jews are weak and vulnerable. Eg beating up a rabbi in London on Sunday. That's antisemitic.
Criticising Israel's savagery has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Criticising Israel's savagery has nothing to do with anti-Semitism but there are too many people commenting online who are ignorant of the framework through which this must be done and veer into either dodgy linguistic territory, or outright anti-Semitism

There was a now deleted post on this forum last week which did that in the worst way possible, Israel loves opinions like that, it highlights them and tars the entire Palestinian cause as extremist, the video from London on Sunday was a disaster in that regard

Those who support the Palestinian cause for good reasons - and they are the overwhelming majority - have to be aware that there are genuine anti-Semites out there who like to hop on the bandwagon when it suits them

These anti-Semitic bandwagon hoppers do immense harm to the Palestinian cause

[whitey]

Could be a lot of infighting in the Democratic Caucus

Popular, vocal and powerful members of "The Squad" are very pro Palestinian whereas the establishment wing of the party are much more friendly to Israel

[Jell 0 Biafra]

The U.S. could help by ending the non stop 100% support of the rogue State of Israel.
Biden won't even call for a truce ffs!
The EU need to pull all their Ambasdadors out of Israel, shut the Israeli embassies and cease all trade or other dealings with them.

So what are factors that keep the US out of Israel and not other countries? Would the current and previous governments lose elections over this and that's why continue to 'turn an blind eye' ?

Is there a wealthy benefactor that has a huge say in the politics of Israel? 

How governments with some sort of influence and not get involved is very telling.

Historically (at least in the second half of the 20thC), the Jewish vote was influential, and a lot of that block went Democrat.  And, for obvious historical reasons, Israel was important to that demographic.

Things have changed, as the Jewish vote seems to have receded in importance to the Democratic party (a reflection of the increasing amount of immigration from non-Jewish populations, and of young Democratic voters tending to be more willing to question support for Israel).

On the Republican side, AIPAC is a large pro-Israel donor group, with people like the recently deceased  billionaire Sheldon Adelson (who described himself as a single-issue voter, with Israel being that issue).

Increasingly though, the main support for Israel is from evangelical voters, who think that Jesus will only return if Jerusalem is in Jewish hands.  And no, this last bit isn't a joke:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

[J70]

Could be a lot of infighting in the Democratic Caucus

Popular, vocal and powerful members of "The Squad" are very pro Palestinian whereas the establishment wing of the party are much more friendly to Israel

Its time the US started coming to its senses on Israel.

It has to start somewhere (which will NOT be on the right). Andrew Yang got his wings clipped last week on this in the NYC mayoral election campaign. Bob Menendez, a long time pro-Israel senator, criticized Netanyahu over the weekend. Chuck Schumer is VERY pro-Israel, but he could have a fight on his hands for his Senate seat next year with this a potential issue, especially if AOC decides its time to move up.

[J70]

The U.S. could help by ending the non stop 100% support of the rogue State of Israel.
Biden won't even call for a truce ffs!
The EU need to pull all their Ambasdadors out of Israel, shut the Israeli embassies and cease all trade or other dealings with them.

So what are factors that keep the US out of Israel and not other countries? Would the current and previous governments lose elections over this and that's why continue to 'turn an blind eye' ?

Is there a wealthy benefactor that has a huge say in the politics of Israel? 

How governments with some sort of influence and not get involved is very telling.

Historically (at least in the second half of the 20thC), the Jewish vote was influential, and a lot of that block went Democrat.  And, for obvious historical reasons, Israel was important to that demographic.

Things have changed, as the Jewish vote seems to have receded in importance to the Democratic party (a reflection of the increasing amount of immigration from non-Jewish populations, and of young Democratic voters tending to be more willing to question support for Israel).

On the Republican side, AIPAC is a large pro-Israel donor group, with people like the recently deceased  billionaire Sheldon Adelson (who described himself as a single-issue voter, with Israel being that issue).

Increasingly though, the main support for Israel is from evangelical voters, who think that Jesus will only return if Jerusalem is in Jewish hands.  And no, this last bit isn't a joke:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/

Its amazing how many issues there are where you might need to say "this is not a joke" when it comes to the religious wing of the Republican Party.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

 

[seafoid]

The effects of the Famine lasted several generations in Ireland. Israel is a case of collective Holocaust trauma.
This drives the violence.  This paper is worth a read if you have the time.

https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/701010

[Itchy]

The effects of the Famine lasted several generations in Ireland. Israel is a case of collective Holocaust trauma.
This drives the violence.  This paper is worth a read if you have the time.

https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/701010

I dont think Ireland spent those generations creating Ghettos, stealing lands and indiscriminately blowing civilians to pieces. There are evil forces in Israel that are using the holocaust to further their own goals. Its is disgusting that a people so wronged could turn around and do the same thing to another people, a people who were victims of vile propaganda and now using that propaganda style to demonise Palestinians, and to justify horrendous war crimes. Goebbels would be impressed if he was here to see it. It is also disgusting that the UN (especially the Americans) learn nothing from the history of WW2 and fail to act against such a heinous regime as Israel.

[Angelo]

The effects of the Famine lasted several generations in Ireland. Israel is a case of collective Holocaust trauma.
This drives the violence.  This paper is worth a read if you have the time.

https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/701010

I dont think Ireland spent those generations creating Ghettos, stealing lands and indiscriminately blowing civilians to pieces. There are evil forces in Israel that are using the holocaust to further their own goals. Its is disgusting that a people so wronged could turn around and do the same thing to another people, a people who were victims of vile propaganda and now using that propaganda style to demonise Palestinians, and to justify horrendous war crimes. Goebbels would be impressed if he was here to see it. It is also disgusting that the UN (especially the Americans) learn nothing from the history of WW2 and fail to act against such a heinous regime as Israel.

The West are very adept in driving a propaganda campaign against Russia but like to turn a blind eye to what their Zionist buddies get up to in Israel.

You see all the hysteria about Trump, all those American presidents - they're all the same - vultures. Biden should hang is head in shame.