Ulster President Aogan Farrell. "Appoint Managers from within your own club"

[theskull1]

Farrell wants jobs kept in-house
11 November 2010

Ulster GAA President Aogan Farrell has called on clubs around the country to appoint managers from within their own ranks.

Farrell told clubs at the recent Ulster Coaching Conference in Armagh that clubs should be able to go it alone in all areas:

"The manager is one aspect of that," said the Drumgoon Eire Og clubman. "Clubs don't need to go to the next parish or county to find a club chairman.

"They should be well able from within their own club area to find a good leader from their own community because GAA is about passion for your own place.

"In the same way they don't need to be going to anyone always expecting there is a grant for this or that.

"They should be able to grow their own players within their catchment, within their own community - people who have a love of their own club and place, and they should be the people that power their teams."

Surprised this topic hasn't been raised before now. The country is rife with journey men getting 50-100+ a night taking teams they have zero allegiance with. Many have zero credentials but that is beside the point. I'm 100% in agreement with the argument being made here.

What are your own thoughts? Have some clubs became almost addicted to the outside man solution? It does appear to be rife in alot of areas

[andoireabu]

sticky topic for a few reasons.  im in favour of a local person taking a team as they have knowledge of the area and the people and have pride in the club.  However there can be problems if there is friction between the manager and a player off the field then it will most likely be brought onto the field. then there is the "he only put him on because he is his nephew" problem when a player is forever under the microscope because he is related to the manager.  this can cause a problem in the squad.

we had an outside man at the start of the year who tried to make changes to not just the football team but the hurling as well and needless to say it didn't go down well.  He isn't the manager anymore and local men are in charge.  Hopefully it stays that way

[fitzroyalty]

I know of one or two clubs who go for the outside manager, though i personally would prefer someone from the club doing it. One argument from the club i know with an outside manager is that the clubmen sometimes have wee loyalties that affect their team selections, training etc, whereas an outside man has a blank canvas to begin with and can base his judgements on what he sees without showing any bias. The only time i would accept an outside manager is if he had a good reputation and was able to guarantee success or at the very least improvement. i think Cullyhanna have a tyrone man over them and the change they made from last year has been evident with them putting a strong show in the Armagh championship.

[DuffleKing]

Same boy was over cullyhanna last year as well

[INDIANA]

I know of one or two clubs who go for the outside manager, though i personally would prefer someone from the club doing it. One argument from the club i know with an outside manager is that the clubmen sometimes have wee loyalties that affect their team selections, training etc, whereas an outside man has a blank canvas to begin with and can base his judgements on what he sees without showing any bias. The only time i would accept an outside manager is if he had a good reputation and was able to guarantee success or at the very least improvement. i think Cullyhanna have a tyrone man over them and the change they made from last year has been evident with them putting a strong show in the Armagh championship.

There is no great body of evidence that suggests that outside coaches are more successful then internal.

However if you dont have the expertise you should go outside. No point in sticking your head in the sand either. And use the expertise to train the young coaches. Therefore it becomes a one off expense.

However dont pay through the nose for them.

If you have it- dont bother.

Thats the biggest problem in my view. We're great at training players but poor at training coaches.,

[Milltown Row2]

We've never had an outside manager for hurling, but had one or two outside managers for the football.

most successful managers being club men. The outside managers have won the Antrim championship and progressed well in the Ulster championships. Would we have still done as well had we appointed within? probably.

My own view is, should someone (from within) be keen to take the club team and have a plan, structures and be passionate about the team then give him a chance. Players will always say the manager picks players over others based on whatever reasons. That will happen even if Brian Cody took your team.

We as a club could not afford to pay anyone to manage teams in the club. most managers are out of pocket

Believe it or not even during our most successful period at the club we struggled to get the right men to take the senior football team. Nearly impossible to get a manager from within to manage the hurling team!!!

So if you cant get a manager within, then you have to go outside and get someone.

[theskull1]

We're great at abdicating responsibilty.

Don't believe that this nepotism argument is a primary reason why outside men are brought in. Not all adults lack the ability to be impartial.

[wavesofTORRES]

Principally I am totally against the appointment of outsiders as managers for all the usual reasons main one being - they really  day dont give two hoots for the long term well being of the clubs involved or the development of the under age teams within the club. But I was struck by a comment made by one of our clubs most respected former players and successful underage managers in recent years, when I put it to him that maybe it was time for him to give it a go at senior level and bring through the many lads he had nurtured at minor and u16 level. The point he made against not moving up to senior level was basically that - how would he get the respect and commitment from lads who are on a daily basis getting coached by the illustrious set ups now operating at some of our 3rd level colleges, where lads are exposed to the newest coaching methods, the "top coaches", equipment and sports scientists etc. daily. To then come back to their clubs and have the genuine club men try to get through to them how they want the game played is hard to do. A big name ex. county player has a better chance of commanding the respect and commitment where the local man may struggle. That may explain why so many within clubs back off from the challenge and clubs feel it necessary to go outside. i thought his point was relevant and sincere and unfortunately we have suffered with some woeful imported expensive dross in recent times. 

[Milltown Row2]

WavesofTORRES, more fool him into thinking he could not compare with the 3rd level coaches and county team managers. That maybe shows a lack of confidence in his own ability.

If he has taken teams through the juvenile structures then its only right that he takes over at senior. He more than anyone else knows that lads ability, strengths and best of all his weaknesses.

When you manage a team you do talk with the senior players, we don't know everything, the county boys usually advise on some new drills they have done lately and you'd be a fool not to use them yourself, if they are good.

Respect is earned and I'm sure a lot of the players will respect him. you can't keep them all happy, no matter what they say to your face

[Zapatista]

I think this sort of criticism should start from the top down. If there are Counties finding it difficult to appoint quality managers from within then it's a bit much to expect it of clubs.

[Celt_Man]

What happens if no one in your club is nowhere near good enough to train your team?? Should you appoint him anyway??

[Celt_Man]

What happens if no one in your club is nowhere near good enough to train your team?? Should you appoint him anyway??

Who is 'him'?

I'm not talking about anyone in particular - just a general point really!

[Minder]

What happens if no one in your club is nowhere near good enough to train your team?? Should you appoint him anyway??

Who is 'him'?

I'm not talking about anyone in particular - just a general point really!

Appoint the best man in your club to do the job. What do you do if your club hasn't got a 'keeper who is any use?

Get someone from Fermanagh.

[Zulu]

So it seems that most lads are in favour of appointing from within, hardstation even appears to suggest a club should appoint a local man even if he isn't any good. While I agree that it is preferential to appoint a club man, I think it is utter nonsense to appoint men who aren't capable of doing the job simply because they want it. There are also many sweeping generalisations about outside managers that are often inaccurate, gems like they are less successful than a local man is a dubious claim. Or that they don't care for the club or it's underage structures is also often incorrect.

If your putting an extension on to your house, you should find out about the ability of the builder you're hiring and how much is reasonable for the job. Same applies to hiring an outside coach, offer what you can afford and get someone with a good reputation (and find out if it's justified). But it's time to leave this issue rest, the job of a manager/coach is far more than what it used to be and the level of preparation and knowledge that players expect is far more than what many can provide. I won't say managers/coaches 'deserve' to be paid but good ones bring a level of expertise that warrants payment in the same way the club physio or doctor does. You don't have to like it but people should stop complaining about it until they can find a solution that satisfies everyone and you won't do that. 

[INDIANA]

So it seems that most lads are in favour of appointing from within, hardstation even appears to suggest a club should appoint a local man even if he isn't any good. While I agree that it is preferential to appoint a club man, I think it is utter nonsense to appoint men who aren't capable of doing the job simply because they want it. There are also many sweeping generalisations about outside managers that are often inaccurate, gems like they are less successful than a local man is a dubious claim. Or that they don't care for the club or it's underage structures is also often incorrect.

If your putting an extension on to your house, you should find out about the ability of the builder you're hiring and how much is reasonable for the job. Same applies to hiring an outside coach, offer what you can afford and get someone with a good reputation (and find out if it's justified). But it's time to leave this issue rest, the job of a manager/coach is far more than what it used to be and the level of preparation and knowledge that players expect is far more than what many can provide. I won't say managers/coaches 'deserve' to be paid but good ones bring a level of expertise that warrants payment in the same way the club physio or doctor does. You don't have to like it but people should stop complaining about it until they can find a solution that satisfies everyone and you won't do that.

Zulu you would want to acquaint yourself with what the asking price is for average coaches before slagging clubs off. In the current economic climate what even good coaches are asking for in the current economic climate is nothing short of a disgrace.