I think the police have up to around 5 or 6 o'clock to charge or release Mo. the social media campaigners know as much as we do. Stories starting to come out about missing family members mostly from Vietnam
Essex police to make a statement at 6
So a 4th arrested from an airport, looks like he was doing a runner
from NI as well
Quote from: Square Ball on October 25, 2019, 05:55:50 PM
Essex police to make a statement at 6
They seem like a woefully inept police force, every statement seems to be incorrect, ie the unit arriving from Holyhead, the victims being all chinese, I mean can they not f**king clearly accertain the facts before announcing something.
Deputy Chief Constable Pippa Mills.....This was a "fast moving" investigation she added, as it became clear the focus is increasingly being made on Ireland
Is Mo Robinson past the time he is either charged or released?
Quote from: Square Ball on October 25, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
Is Mo Robinson past the time he is either charged or released?
I thought it was tomorrow night but I could be wrong.
Is Mo Robinson giving up names? Possible plea bargain? Who knows what's going on.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 25, 2019, 11:17:00 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on October 25, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
Is Mo Robinson past the time he is either charged or released?
I thought it was tomorrow night but I could be wrong.
Is Mo Robinson giving up names? Possible plea bargain? Who knows what's going on.
If Mo Robinson is completely innocent then he has already been completely smeared by association and his life will never be the same again after what he witnessed and has gone through since.
I see where Michaela McCollum is now releasing a book on the Peru 2 drug mule smuggling operation. I think that just shows a lack of self awareness in still trying to profit from a crime.
Do they have plea bargaining in the UK?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 26, 2019, 12:37:00 AM
Do they have plea bargaining in the UK?
Pretty sure any assistance given to police is taken into consideration.
The GPS tracking information handed over by the rental firm has been very informative and shines a light on it's movements.
Not only that, but the fact that several Vietnamese people are missing has opened a new line of inquiry.
Apparently the trailer was rented in Monaghan, travelled north, then crossed from Dublin to Holyhead overnight on Tuesday of last week.. It then crossed from Dover to Calais later that night, and was in France on Thursday. It has stopped at known migrant camp arrears. It has then apparently made a crossing from Zeebrugge to Tilbury, and back before it returned on that fateful night last Tuesday. Did that previous trip contain migrants? The pin point accuracy of the tracker will show exactly every movement of that trailer from the minute it left Monaghan on rent, until it stopped in the Industrial Estate.
If the text message from the girl saying they couldn't breathe is to be from the fridge, then we can rule out that they froze to death. Something else went wrong. There are a couple of fridge issues that could be to blame.
If I was guessing, when the driver arrived to collect the trailer, he knew something was wrong temperature wise,
but couldn't open the door as it was sealed, and it might be checked at exit from port.
He hooks up and then drives a couple of mile into the Industrial Estate to check.
Breaking the seal isn't an issue at this stage......
He opens the doors, see's the carnage.
Ambulances are called, and then they call the police.
Driver arrested.
This evening on the news I listened to a Vietnamese official in London say that from what they know so far is that
families were paying up to £30,000 to get someone to the UK. They would be taken to China and given a false identity. (which could explain why the police initially thought they were Chinese), and then fly to Belgium or France as tourists.
Then they would meet up with contacts, and put in on trailers to the UK.
Vietnam is the 3rd largest number of people who are victims of human trafficking
He described it as people trafficking on an Industrial Scale.
BBC news had interviews with Vietnamese people in camps close to the ports in France saying they were waiting for the call to go and it was costing them up to £30,000.
The couple arrested in Warrington used to own the lorry. They said they sold it to a company in Monaghan last year. While I have heard that the lorry belonged to a company in Monaghan, I have read that the driver owned the lorry himself. Could he be the company in Monaghan who bought the lorry?
Could both parties be linked in all of this perhaps?
Journalists have been going to the house of the alleged link in Monaghan, and they have got short shift.
The Gardai have apparently said they are satisfied that there isn't a big Irish connection.
Considering people were prepared to pay £30,000 to get to the UK, it fair to say that the most difficult part is crossing the channel. Therefore, that would mean that possibly £10,000 per person would go to those covering this part.
That's almost £400,000 for that load that went wrong. How many others got through?
I know of a large haulage firm who turned £70 million and only made £650,000 last year.
The scale of profit on this is staggering, and it's not hard to see the attraction of it for certain people.
There can't be much lower forms of making money than trafficking people like a product or commodity.
It's like a slave trade.
It's not like the slave trade it IS the slave trade
Route used to traffic 39 migrants similar to network used by Irish drug gangs
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/essex-lorry-deaths-route-used-17150670#ICID=Android_BelfastLiveNewsApp_AppShare
Love the use of the term, an "underworld source"
Yeah, it is the modern day slave trade.
If they have passports (fake) to fly to Belguim etc., why would they not fly into an English airport? Surely, trying to get in on lorries and containers is risky, never mind dangerous.
How do they know it was people trafficking as opposed to people smuggling
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 26, 2019, 12:37:00 AM
Do they have plea bargaining in the UK?
Not in the way they do in America. Prosecutors can't offer deals or specific sentences for Co-operation etc but as we've seen with super informants big discounts may ultimately be given by the courts for assistance given to the police.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 26, 2019, 02:17:44 AM
The GPS tracking information handed over by the rental firm has been very informative and shines a light on it's movements.
Not only that, but the fact that several Vietnamese people are missing has opened a new line of inquiry.
Apparently the trailer was rented in Monaghan, travelled north, then crossed from Dublin to Holyhead overnight on Tuesday of last week.. It then crossed from Dover to Calais later that night, and was in France on Thursday. It has stopped at known migrant camp arrears. It has then apparently made a crossing from Zeebrugge to Tilbury, and back before it returned on that fateful night last Tuesday. Did that previous trip contain migrants? The pin point accuracy of the tracker will show exactly every movement of that trailer from the minute it left Monaghan on rent, until it stopped in the Industrial Estate.
If the text message from the girl saying they couldn't breathe is to be from the fridge, then we can rule out that they froze to death. Something else went wrong. There are a couple of fridge issues that could be to blame.
If I was guessing, when the driver arrived to collect the trailer, he knew something was wrong temperature wise,
but couldn't open the door as it was sealed, and it might be checked at exit from port.
He hooks up and then drives a couple of mile into the Industrial Estate to check.
Breaking the seal isn't an issue at this stage......
He opens the doors, see's the carnage.
Ambulances are called, and then they call the police.
Driver arrested.
This evening on the news I listened to a Vietnamese official in London say that from what they know so far is that
families were paying up to £30,000 to get someone to the UK. They would be taken to China and given a false identity. (which could explain why the police initially thought they were Chinese), and then fly to Belgium or France as tourists.
Then they would meet up with contacts, and put in on trailers to the UK.
Vietnam is the 3rd largest number of people who are victims of human trafficking
He described it as people trafficking on an Industrial Scale.
BBC news had interviews with Vietnamese people in camps close to the ports in France saying they were waiting for the call to go and it was costing them up to £30,000.
The couple arrested in Warrington used to own the lorry. They said they sold it to a company in Monaghan last year. While I have heard that the lorry belonged to a company in Monaghan, I have read that the driver owned the lorry himself. Could he be the company in Monaghan who bought the lorry?
Could both parties be linked in all of this perhaps?
Journalists have been going to the house of the alleged link in Monaghan, and they have got short shift.
The Gardai have apparently said they are satisfied that there isn't a big Irish connection.
Considering people were prepared to pay £30,000 to get to the UK, it fair to say that the most difficult part is crossing the channel. Therefore, that would mean that possibly £10,000 per person would go to those covering this part.
That's almost £400,000 for that load that went wrong. How many others got through?
I know of a large haulage firm who turned £70 million and only made £650,000 last year.
The scale of profit on this is staggering, and it's not hard to see the attraction of it for certain people.
There can't be much lower forms of making money than trafficking people like a product or commodity.
It's like a slave trade.
Not doubting what you are saying but The accuracy of GPS data has been doubted by courts over the years as the data has at times been proven to be quite unreliable. There was a case in Newry dismissed last year when it was shown the data was suggesting lorries had been driven through the middle of the Irish Sea.
On day one of this tragic story Independent newspapers had to suggest there was a dissident Republican link.
Loyalists link too depending on what you read..
It's a hugely lucrative business and then that only one driver had been jailed for trafficking the profit v risk is huge compared to drugs or fags.
Another one arrested
Man from Co Down arrested in connection with 39 lorry deaths
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/essex-lorry-deaths-man-co-17151685#ICID=Android_BelfastLiveNewsApp_AppShare
Maurice Robinson, 25, charged with manslaughter over deaths of 39 people found in trailer in Essex, police say.
Must have something to go on. I expect there to be more arrests
Driver charged with manslaughter. Can we assume that he knew what was in the trailer then?
I hear the lorry men in South Armagh and Monaghan are awash with cash, driving big motors and wearing Rolex watches. They reckon something big is about to be uncovered.
The net is closing.....
He is further charged with conspiracy to traffic people, conspiracy to assist unlawful immigration and money laundering, the force said. Jez
Was curious as to why he opened that trailer so soon after leaving the port so he must have knew what he was doing. If they were already dead by the time he hooked the trailer on can he still be charged with manslaughter?
Could be just the tip of the iceberg though, I doubt very much if a lone self employed lorry man had the wherewithal to lead the operation. I would imagine that he was just a small cog in a much bigger wheel.
Are the #JusticeforMo t-shirts cancelled now?
Quote from: yellowcard on October 26, 2019, 05:41:36 PM
Was curious as to why he opened that trailer so soon after leaving the port so he must have knew what he was doing. If they were already dead by the time he hooked the trailer on can he still be charged with manslaughter?
Could be just the tip of the iceberg though, I doubt very much if a lone self employed lorry man had the wherewithal to lead the operation. I would imagine that he was just a small cog in a much bigger wheel.
Opening the trailer 30 minutes after lifting it is the bit that really stands out. Three scenarios come to mind:
1: that is where he planned to let the passengers out.
2: he noticed the unit was switched off/ out of fuel when he picked it up and he knew there was a risk of suffocation but did not open it until he was clear of the docks so that he wouldn't get caught red handed.
3: he didn't know what his cargo was, noticed the fridge wasn't working but didn't check the load inside the docks as it would lead to added checks and delays.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 26, 2019, 11:41:19 AM
On day one of this tragic story Independent newspapers had to suggest there was a dissident Republican link.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 26, 2019, 12:27:51 PM
Loyalists link too depending on what you read..
Could both be correct. Both groupings have more loyalty to the £ and € than any cause.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 26, 2019, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 26, 2019, 05:41:36 PM
Was curious as to why he opened that trailer so soon after leaving the port so he must have knew what he was doing. If they were already dead by the time he hooked the trailer on can he still be charged with manslaughter?
Could be just the tip of the iceberg though, I doubt very much if a lone self employed lorry man had the wherewithal to lead the operation. I would imagine that he was just a small cog in a much bigger wheel.
Opening the trailer 30 minutes after lifting it is the bit that really stands out. Three scenarios come to mind:
1: that is where he planned to let the passengers out.
2: he noticed the unit was switched off/ out of fuel when he picked it up and he knew there was a risk of suffocation but did not open it until he was clear of the docks so that he wouldn't get caught red handed.
3: he didn't know what his cargo was, noticed the fridge wasn't working but didn't check the load inside the docks as it would lead to added checks and delays.
He is innocent until proven guilty, but I suspect we can rule out 3 as the money laundering charge would suggest they have got some financial juice on him, presumably after the house raids. If they can link the money to the lorry runs then he's fcuked.
Money laundering an interesting addition to the charges - would wonder if there was a large sum of cash on him at the time or as another poster has suggested a large sum found in one of the house searches.
Have a sense this is only the tip of the iceberg with an unholy amount of shit to come out about a wider network.
This all the while as 39 people have lost their lives in deplorable circumstances
Does anyone else find it strange that a 25 year old has been able to buy such a property as a gate house to a castle or is that a media exaggeration??? Plus goin by his Facebook posts his lorry was one of a kind and must have been a tasty fee. I'm all for hard working lads but when I was 25 I was borrowing my sister's car and only had money for the breakfast roll on a Monday morning.
I always had suspicions about some lorry fellas that got very big down our way recently..... I wonder is it only tip of the ice berg and if it is I hope they all taken down cause this lad is only one who got caught in this awful game.
It's the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully a lot of lads having sleepless nights.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 27, 2019, 12:05:01 AM
It's the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully a lot of lads having sleepless nights.
Hopefully.
Haulage is the murkiest business... within legal bounds there's very little margin so the temptation is there to "diversify".
Loads of dodgy lads involved in haulage even without the human trafficking element it's the kind of business susceptible to criminality there'll be a lot more to come from this!
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 26, 2019, 10:02:00 PM
Money laundering an interesting addition to the charges - would wonder if there was a large sum of cash on him at the time or as another poster has suggested a large sum found in one of the house searches.
Have a sense this is only the tip of the iceberg with an unholy amount of shit to come out about a wider network.
This all the while as 39 people have lost their lives in deplorable circumstances
I would have thought the money laundering may have been on a joint enterprise basis with who ever was being paid the big money that's been talked about
Quote from: WT4E on October 26, 2019, 11:56:06 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that a 25 year old has been able to buy such a property as a gate house to a castle or is that a media exaggeration??? Plus goin by his Facebook posts his lorry was one of a kind and must have been a tasty fee. I'm all for hard working lads but when I was 25 I was borrowing my sister's car and only had money for the breakfast roll on a Monday morning.
I always had suspicions about some lorry fellas that got very big down our way recently..... I wonder is it only tip of the ice berg and if it is I hope they all taken down cause this lad is only one who got caught in this awful game.
The property values up at £160k - it wouldn't be unrealistic for a young couple to purchase something along those lines - the media would certainly be making more of it that reality.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 26, 2019, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 26, 2019, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 26, 2019, 05:41:36 PM
Was curious as to why he opened that trailer so soon after leaving the port so he must have knew what he was doing. If they were already dead by the time he hooked the trailer on can he still be charged with manslaughter?
Could be just the tip of the iceberg though, I doubt very much if a lone self employed lorry man had the wherewithal to lead the operation. I would imagine that he was just a small cog in a much bigger wheel. L
Opening the trailer 30 minutes after lifting it is the bit that really stands out. Three scenarios come to mind:
1: that is where he planned to let the passengers out.
2: he noticed the unit was switched off/ out of fuel when he picked it up and he knew there was a risk of suffocation but did not open it until he was clear of the docks so that he wouldn't get caught red handed.
3: he didn't know what his cargo was, noticed the fridge wasn't working but didn't check the load inside the docks as it would lead to added checks and delays.
He is innocent until proven guilty, but I suspect we can rule out 3 as the money laundering charge would suggest they have got some financial juice on him, presumably after the house raids. If they can link the money to the lorry runs then he's fcuked.
If people pay 30k to get to the UK the last leg could be worth £5k per head x40 for £200k for a few hours' work. There are probably many more.
The money would have to be laundered. Ulster Bank in Portadown might get suspicious.
I'd imagine it's a very small fraction of that figure Seofoid - No way he'd have been clearing £200k for that run...
Quote from: Will it ever end on October 27, 2019, 06:22:51 AM
I'd imagine it's a very small fraction of that figure Seofoid - No way he'd have been clearing £200k for that run...
We would need to get the inside view from a gang accountant. It's around £800-900 from Vietnam to LHR with a visa. At £30K a lot of people take a cut. Getting into the UK undocumented is the hardest part.Camps in Northern France are full of people who failed. Even if it's £2.5k it's massive.
Mail on Sunday said that the truck was part of a convoy of 3 and that the other 2 made it
Agreed at that figure it's massive! If there were two other convoys that got through you'd expect the net to close in on all involved quite quickly with the level of CCTV around ports.
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2019, 06:13:46 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 26, 2019, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on October 26, 2019, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on October 26, 2019, 05:41:36 PM
Was curious as to why he opened that trailer so soon after leaving the port so he must have knew what he was doing. If they were already dead by the time he hooked the trailer on can he still be charged with manslaughter?
Could be just the tip of the iceberg though, I doubt very much if a lone self employed lorry man had the wherewithal to lead the operation. I would imagine that he was just a small cog in a much bigger wheel. L
Opening the trailer 30 minutes after lifting it is the bit that really stands out. Three scenarios come to mind:
1: that is where he planned to let the passengers out.
2: he noticed the unit was switched off/ out of fuel when he picked it up and he knew there was a risk of suffocation but did not open it until he was clear of the docks so that he wouldn't get caught red handed.
3: he didn't know what his cargo was, noticed the fridge wasn't working but didn't check the load inside the docks as it would lead to added checks and delays.
He is innocent until proven guilty, but I suspect we can rule out 3 as the money laundering charge would suggest they have got some financial juice on him, presumably after the house raids. If they can link the money to the lorry runs then he's fcuked.
If people pay 30k to get to the UK the last leg could be worth £5k per head x40 for £200k for a few hours' work. There are probably many more.
The money would have to be laundered. Ulster Bank in Portadown might get suspicious.
Would all these gangs be getting a small cut in this - I don't think the driver would be getting a huge amount???
40 30k's is a lot of money, plenty to share around, wee bit for all the players while the masterminds get a good cut too
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 27, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
40 30k's is a lot of money, plenty to share around, wee bit for all the players while the masterminds get a good cut too
Certainly more profitable use of a refrigerated wagon than shifting fruit and veg.
Three released on bail, so it that only Mo left on his own, well at the minute.
Quote from: Square Ball on October 27, 2019, 11:45:00 AM
Three released on bail, so it that only Mo left on his own, well at the minute.
A 23 year old man from Co Down who was arrested yesterday in Dublin port remains in custody
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/eamon-harrison-appears-court-after-17153090.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 27, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
40 30k's is a lot of money, plenty to share around, wee bit for all the players while the masterminds get a good cut too
I have often heard that the rate for the driver was around £2,000 per person been smuggled
Quote from: give her dixie on October 27, 2019, 12:28:23 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 27, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
40 30k's is a lot of money, plenty to share around, wee bit for all the players while the masterminds get a good cut too
I have often heard that the rate for the driver was around £2,000 per person been smuggled
£14,000 per head from Belgium to the UK per this article :
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7617399/amp/Sickening-people-trafficker-offers-smuggle-undercover-reporter-London-14k.html
It's a bad job if the daily mail is a source of truth ;D
Bad job all round. Doesn't speak volumes for someone being involved in this kind of caper.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2019, 02:34:58 PM
It's a bad job if the daily mail is a source of truth ;D
Bad job all round. Doesn't speak volumes for someone being involved in this kind of caper.
A lot of these lads will rationalise that the movement of paying migrants is a victimless crime.
I saw some comments in those sites that would suggest that. It's just the internet magnifying idiots though and I would suspect they are in the minority. Anyone who sees 39 deaths as victimless is not a good person.
Desperate people will pay huge money to live in the West. Earning capacity is so much bigger than in rural Asia. Also overpopulation pushes people to escape .
This goes on 365 days a year without problems.
Something must have gone wrong in this case and then it goes out of control with the police and media getting involved.
Yeah but then how do they get big money if they live in places with so much less earning capacity. I suspect there is quite a bit sinister in how they get the money too >:( Sometimes human beings wouldn't give you much faith in humanity.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Yeah but then how do they get big money if they live in places with so much less earning capacity. I suspect there is quite a bit sinister in how they get the money too >:( Sometimes human beings wouldn't give you much faith in humanity.
.Sell land or borrow from moneylenders probably
Drogba was sponsoring x family members back in Cote d'Ivoire
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Yeah but then how do they get big money if they live in places with so much less earning capacity. I suspect there is quite a bit sinister in how they get the money too >:( Sometimes human beings wouldn't give you much faith in humanity.
If it is trafficking, some traffickers take the money from the wages the people get. Would take a look g time to get the money back mind you.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 27, 2019, 04:18:24 PM
Yeah but then how do they get big money if they live in places with so much less earning capacity. I suspect there is quite a bit sinister in how they get the money too >:( Sometimes human beings wouldn't give you much faith in humanity.
An advance from the smugglers themselves. The collateral is their families lives or a younger sibling. It is paid back to the smugglers once they get to the west. They will get their accommodation and a job. Most of their "wage" will be handed back to pay the debt and for the accommodation and they will probably be left with the equivalent of a weeks wages in Vietnam which they can send back to keep them off the breadline and to make it appear that they have "made it in the West" inspiring others to follow their path.
Trafficking of women for prostitution is brutal and some of the women end up
in Ireland
In relation to the GPS tracker and the information a few days ago that the trailer had shipped in and out in the days prior to the fateful journey, the tracker will show exactly where it stopped after it left the port. If it is in the same area as to where it stopped on Wednesday morning, then it will show a pattern perhaps.
If it is, then there could be the possibility that a few vans were on hand to take them to another location? Would cctv capture those movements if they occured?
It would appear that the 23 year old arrested in Dublin port yesterday is tied in as well. According to court reports he has disposed of a mobile phone and spent 3 days looking for an alternative route back to Ireland. He was refused bail, and because of the different jurisdictions, how would Essex police go about questioning him?
More facts may be revealed tomorrow at the court case, which will bd revealing
Interesting story in this morning's Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irishman-expected-to-be-handed-over-to-uk-authorities-in-coming-days-1.4064434?mode=amp
Case referred to the Old Bailey for November 25th
Quote from: give her dixie on October 28, 2019, 07:58:41 AM
Interesting story in this morning's Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irishman-expected-to-be-handed-over-to-uk-authorities-in-coming-days-1.4064434?mode=amp
First time I saw the Monaghan name out in the press. Is this the same man?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7588635.stm
Cowboy country living up to its name it seems :-\
Quote from: LeoMc on October 28, 2019, 11:41:35 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 28, 2019, 07:58:41 AM
Interesting story in this morning's Irish Times
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irishman-expected-to-be-handed-over-to-uk-authorities-in-coming-days-1.4064434?mode=amp
First time I saw the Monaghan name out in the press. Is this the same man?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7588635.stm
Different Hughes
https://irishtrucker.com/News/12927
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/essex-migrant-deaths-armagh-truck-driver-part-of-global-ring-court-told-1.4064803
Funny this guy being called "irish" given some of photos of him I've seen in last day or two.
Quote from: Itchy on October 28, 2019, 04:53:53 PM
Funny this guy being called "irish" given some of photos of him I've seen in last day or two.
Did he not give his nationality as British?
He did. His FB page is still up, so people have been poking around looking at his photos. He's holding an NI flag in a few of them, including that strange NI/Israel combo flag with the blue star of David superimposed on it.
Yesterday I saw a meme going around denouncing him as a loyalist with connections to the UVF/UDA. I don't know if that's founded or not.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
He did. His FB page is still up, so people have been poking around looking at his photos. He's holding an NI flag in a few of them, including that strange NI/Israel combo flag with the blue star of David superimposed on it.
Yesterday I saw a meme going around denouncing him as a loyalist with connections to the UVF/UDA. I don't know if that's founded or not.
Its strange though. When Rory McIlroy wins anything they use a made of nationality of "Northern Irish" but in the case of the fella its "Irish" everywhere you look except he appears to be a hard core loyalist. It would make you wonder the subtle use of language.
Quote from: Itchy on October 28, 2019, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
He did. His FB page is still up, so people have been poking around looking at his photos. He's holding an NI flag in a few of them, including that strange NI/Israel combo flag with the blue star of David superimposed on it.
Yesterday I saw a meme going around denouncing him as a loyalist with connections to the UVF/UDA. I don't know if that's founded or not.
Its strange though. When Rory McIlroy wins anything they use a made of nationality of "Northern Irish" but in the case of the fella its "Irish" everywhere you look except he appears to be a hard core loyalist. It would make you wonder the subtle use of language.
By the same token, Republicans are always saying that unionists are Irish. By your reckoning here, they are British when it suits / doesn't paint Irish people in a bad light. Can't have it both ways!
This chap declared his Nationality "British" anyway.
He'll likely get to stay in Britain for quite some time now!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
He did. His FB page is still up, so people have been poking around looking at his photos. He's holding an NI flag in a few of them, including that strange NI/Israel combo flag with the blue star of David superimposed on it.
Yesterday I saw a meme going around denouncing him as a loyalist with connections to the UVF/UDA. I don't know if that's founded or not.
Thought this must be the case. A colleague of Unionist persuasion last week was championing this fella as a victim of the media. Now he looks guilty she comes out today saying he apparently has links to the IRA. I just bite my tongue.
He had a tricolour and a sweden flag in his Instagram bio. Bit odd I thought as he does appear to be a loyalist
Quote from: michaelg on October 28, 2019, 07:42:47 PM
Quote from: Itchy on October 28, 2019, 06:29:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2019, 05:15:16 PM
He did. His FB page is still up, so people have been poking around looking at his photos. He's holding an NI flag in a few of them, including that strange NI/Israel combo flag with the blue star of David superimposed on it.
Yesterday I saw a meme going around denouncing him as a loyalist with connections to the UVF/UDA. I don't know if that's founded or not.
Its strange though. When Rory McIlroy wins anything they use a made of nationality of "Northern Irish" but in the case of the fella its "Irish" everywhere you look except he appears to be a hard core loyalist. It would make you wonder the subtle use of language.
By the same token, Republicans are always saying that unionists are Irish. By your reckoning here, they are British when it suits / doesn't paint Irish people in a bad light. Can't have it both ways!
I was referring to the mainstream media terminology, not terminology from either side of the divide.
Who really gives a f**k what fleg he's holding! He's possibly involved with the deaths of 29 people. He needs if guilty to be locked up on his own for the rest of his life!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2019, 10:07:24 PM
Who really gives a f**k what fleg he's holding! He's possibly involved with the deaths of 29 people. He needs if guilty to be locked up on his own for the rest of his life!
You must be new here. "Is he one of ours or one of themmuns" is a required discussion for people from the north whenever discussing anyone new.
I've a good friend who's a driver , has been driving the continent for 20 years now. He said he saw him on the boat 2 weeks before it happened , said the way he was dressed you wouldn't have thought he was a truck driver. Very flash.
He also said, that crossing from Belgium is 8 hours I think and that the fridges are either booked as fresh or frozen . One is 0 degrees the other minus 25. When the lorries are loaded there are people on the boat who plug in the fridges to electric. My friend said that he heard the fridge was booked as frozen , but fridge set for fresh. The boys plugging it in on the boat probably noticed it was supposed to be a frozen load and then turned the fridge to the minus 25 . Sorry if that doesn't make sense , just trying to tell it like he told me.
Quote from: cadhlancian on October 29, 2019, 05:28:30 AM
I've a good friend who's a driver , has been driving the continent for 20 years now. He said he saw him on the boat 2 weeks before it happened , said the way he was dressed you wouldn't have thought he was a truck driver. Very flash.
He also said, that crossing from Belgium is 8 hours I think and that the fridges are either booked as fresh or frozen . One is 0 degrees the other minus 25. When the lorries are loaded there are people on the boat who plug in the fridges to electric. My friend said that he heard the fridge was booked as frozen , but fridge set for fresh. The boys plugging it in on the boat probably noticed it was supposed to be a frozen load and then turned the fridge to the minus 25 . Sorry if that doesn't make sense , just trying to tell it like he told me.
Going by the texts from one of the victims they seem to have suffocated rather than froze to death.
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 29, 2019, 08:07:08 AM
Quote from: cadhlancian on October 29, 2019, 05:28:30 AM
I've a good friend who's a driver , has been driving the continent for 20 years now. He said he saw him on the boat 2 weeks before it happened , said the way he was dressed you wouldn't have thought he was a truck driver. Very flash.
He also said, that crossing from Belgium is 8 hours I think and that the fridges are either booked as fresh or frozen . One is 0 degrees the other minus 25. When the lorries are loaded there are people on the boat who plug in the fridges to electric. My friend said that he heard the fridge was booked as frozen , but fridge set for fresh. The boys plugging it in on the boat probably noticed it was supposed to be a frozen load and then turned the fridge to the minus 25 . Sorry if that doesn't make sense , just trying to tell it like he told me.
Going by the texts from one of the victims they seem to have suffocated rather than froze to death.
Fresh shipments circulate fresh air to the interior. Frozen shipments seal the interior so would explain the suffocation. I'm no lorry expert so I could be wrong on this though. Piecing it together from what I've read over the past few days.
Unbelievable to think there are people at this so close to home. You don't know your neighbours anymore...
Going by an Irish Times article the trailer was booked on as having a load of biscuits and the fridge wasn't running.
Therefore the trailer was a sealed unit and no oxygen was getting in and they would have suffocated
Quote from: give her dixie on October 29, 2019, 10:21:07 AM
Going by an Irish Times article the trailer was booked on as having a load of biscuits and the fridge wasn't running.
Therefore the trailer was a sealed unit and no oxygen was getting in and they would have suffocated
:(
Jesus that is horrendous if that is the case. It should be murder on someone and not manslaughter.
Quote from: give her dixie on October 29, 2019, 10:21:07 AM
Going by an Irish Times article the trailer was booked on as having a load of biscuits and the fridge wasn't running.
Therefore the trailer was a sealed unit and no oxygen was getting in and they would have suffocated
if the fridge was running they would have frozen to death.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 28, 2019, 10:54:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 28, 2019, 10:07:24 PM
Who really gives a f**k what fleg he's holding! He's possibly involved with the deaths of 29 people. He needs if guilty to be locked up on his own for the rest of his life!
You must be new here. "Is he one of ours or one of themmuns" is a required discussion for people from the north whenever discussing anyone new.
I brought up the point originally, I was not talking about us or them, I was pointing out how interesting it is how the media describe this man as "Irish" when in other circumstances they don't. I am well aware there are scumbags on both sides of the divide.
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 10:43:48 AM
Quote from: give her dixie on October 29, 2019, 10:21:07 AM
Going by an Irish Times article the trailer was booked on as having a load of biscuits and the fridge wasn't running.
Therefore the trailer was a sealed unit and no oxygen was getting in and they would have suffocated
:(
Jesus that is horrendous if that is the case. It should be murder on someone and not manslaughter.
I understood the sentiment but in law it would be very hard to get a murder charge to stick. You'd have to show those responsible intended to kill or cause serious bodily injury not just that they were reckless about it.
Yeah I see your point. It is hard to see how these people could have survived through any scenario here with anything other than sheer luck though.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2019, 10:08:15 AM
Unbelievable to think there are people at this so close to home. You don't know your neighbours anymore...
Bit off topic but I was watching a programme about groups climbing Everest and one of the most important things everybody needs is oxygen.
At Camp 4, before they start the climb to the summit, a person woke up to get ready to go and some p***k had stolen their oxygen bottles!!! As time is of the essence and lack of time to climb due to conditions etc. Sherpas had to get them more bottles.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
How do other migrants get through with lorries?
It said on the news yesterday that this was potentially one of a convoy of three lorries - no sign of the other two unless some of the boys arrested were driving these
Yeah that is what I was wondering. It sounds like these people had no chance but surely there are people get through. They would presumably do things differently?
Quote from: oliverkelly on October 29, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
Heard when Mo Robinsons house was raided they found 200 thousand pound in cash. Was making that much money he wouldnt no what to do with it.
The two Hughes brother are up to their eyes in it.
The young lad arrested in Down is F**ked according to a lad chatting his uncle. His tracker has him driving to all these places collecting them and he waxs the one that turned on the fridge.
(https://scontent-ams4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39993740_1004239466417267_3144326650955563008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&cachebreaker=hd&_nc_oc=AQlJ16UrB7yt1NbNX7hKdnaCSARE7vQ71oS5fuzTIeqoV0wrTRRkzKIyS2QzqMfNbOLEoohebx8T5N6d9dF1oKqM&_nc_ht=scontent-ams4-1.xx&oh=79b695baf98c4557bf964364b663e81f&oe=5E5F8621)
Quote from: Taylor on October 29, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
How do other migrants get through with lorries?
It said on the news yesterday that this was potentially one of a convoy of three lorries - no sign of the other two unless some of the boys arrested were driving these
According to the GPS tracking data the trailer had travelled between Belgium and the UK in the days prior to the fateful trip. Could it have less people on board and enough oxygen?
According to the Belgian authorities it had been dropped at the port around 2pm and then 12 hours later Mo opened the doors. One of the texts from 3 hours beforehand said they were suffocating. How long were they in the trailer from the point of collection?
Again, the GPS data will show that as well as the previous journey, and who knows what information Mo and possibly Harrison will have divulged.
Once the trailers are loaded and tied down, and the ship is ready to sail, all the deck hands go to their quarters on board to eat, sleep or relax. About 30 minutes or so before docking they will return and start taking off the chains.
Going by the timeline when they were running out of oxygen, it wouldn't have mattered how loud they shouted or banged on the doors or side of the trailer, nobody would have heard them. They died a cruel death, and as far as I'm concerned, everyone involved in trafficking them shares the blame and need to be locked up for a very long time.
Chatting to drivers on the ferries over the past few days, everyone feels sick about the tragedy and the fact that they are Irish drivers and Irish companies involved make it worse. They have brought shame on our industry and reputations.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50221753
Two brothers on the run, wanted by plod.
Quote from: oliverkelly on October 29, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
Heard when Mo Robinsons house was raided they found 200 thousand pound in cash. Was making that much money he wouldnt no what to do with it.
The two Hughes brother are up to their eyes in it.
The young lad arrested in Down is F**ked according to a lad chatting his uncle. His tracker has him driving to all these places collecting them and he waxs the one that turned on the fridge.
You probably should change your username / at the very least take your email off public before throwing that sort of thing online.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2019, 02:10:03 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50221753
Two brothers on the run, wanted by plod.
I still can't understand why the Gardai or the PSNI were not at their doors from the start given the extent of their involvement. Media were at their doors fairly quickly
Quote from: give her dixie on October 29, 2019, 02:22:29 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 29, 2019, 02:10:03 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-50221753
Two brothers on the run, wanted by plod.
I still can't understand why the Gardai or the PSNI were not at their doors from the start given the extent of their involvement. Media were at their doors fairly quickly
Got to follow the proper procedures or the case can be thrown out. But I understand your point. Think they call it 'case building'.
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
I'd say this was a balls up that those involved were not expecting. I doubt anyone would sign up to take part in this operation if they thought they would end up with 39 dead bodies on their hands. Whether it was sealed when it wasn't meant to be or the freezer turned on when it wasn't meant to be, who knows?
I would imagine all these lads, at least at their level of the operation (and obviously assuming they were knowledgeable participants), didn't "mean for this to happen".
Doesn't mean much though. Their actions and scheme directly resulted in the deaths of dozens of desperate people. That their intention wasn't to kill them might mean 15-20 years in prison instead of life.
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2019, 02:36:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
I'd say this was a balls up that those involved were not expecting. I doubt anyone would sign up to take part in this operation if they thought they would end up with 39 dead bodies on their hands. Whether it was sealed when it wasn't meant to be or the freezer turned on when it wasn't meant to be, who knows?
I would imagine all these lads, at least at their level of the operation (and obviously assuming they were knowledgeable participants), didn't "mean for this to happen".
Doesn't mean much though. Their actions and scheme directly resulted in the deaths of dozens of desperate people. That their intention wasn't to kill them might mean 15-20 years in prison instead of life.
Would they really get as long as that for manslaughter? How likely is Robinson to get done for manslaughter if they were dead upon him taking delivery of the trailer?
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 29, 2019, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2019, 02:36:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
I'd say this was a balls up that those involved were not expecting. I doubt anyone would sign up to take part in this operation if they thought they would end up with 39 dead bodies on their hands. Whether it was sealed when it wasn't meant to be or the freezer turned on when it wasn't meant to be, who knows?
I would imagine all these lads, at least at their level of the operation (and obviously assuming they were knowledgeable participants), didn't "mean for this to happen".
Doesn't mean much though. Their actions and scheme directly resulted in the deaths of dozens of desperate people. That their intention wasn't to kill them might mean 15-20 years in prison instead of life.
Would they really get as long as that for manslaughter? How likely is Robinson to get done for manslaughter if they were dead upon him taking delivery of the trailer?
Common purpose.
Quote from: Taylor on October 29, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
How do other migrants get through with lorries?
It said on the news yesterday that this was potentially one of a convoy of three lorries - no sign of the other two unless some of the boys arrested were driving these
Curtainsiders wouldn't be hermetically sealed, although they still wouldn't be the most comfortable. At least in a pinch you could take out a knife and slash the curtain. In a fridge you've got no chance, it's like being locked in a bank vault.
Quote from: oliverkelly on October 29, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
Heard when Mo Robinsons house was raided they found 200 thousand pound in cash. Was making that much money he wouldnt no what to do with it.
The two brothers are seemingly up to their eyes in it.
The young lad arrested in Down is F**ked according to a lad chatting his uncle. His tracker has him driving to all these places collecting them.
I heard he bought a big jeep with cash a few weeks ago.
Where was the air flow coming from and how was it stopped?? God love them people who passed away
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 29, 2019, 03:40:55 PM
Quote from: J70 on October 29, 2019, 02:36:22 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 01:27:26 PM
I'd say this was a balls up that those involved were not expecting. I doubt anyone would sign up to take part in this operation if they thought they would end up with 39 dead bodies on their hands. Whether it was sealed when it wasn't meant to be or the freezer turned on when it wasn't meant to be, who knows?
I would imagine all these lads, at least at their level of the operation (and obviously assuming they were knowledgeable participants), didn't "mean for this to happen".
Doesn't mean much though. Their actions and scheme directly resulted in the deaths of dozens of desperate people. That their intention wasn't to kill them might mean 15-20 years in prison instead of life.
Would they really get as long as that for manslaughter? How likely is Robinson to get done for manslaughter if they were dead upon him taking delivery of the trailer?
Doesn't matter if they had died before he lifted the trailer if he is found complicate in the whole thing and as days go on it gets more likely he was
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 04:13:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2019, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 29, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
How do other migrants get through with lorries?
It said on the news yesterday that this was potentially one of a convoy of three lorries - no sign of the other two unless some of the boys arrested were driving these
Curtainsiders wouldn't be hermetically sealed, although they still wouldn't be the most comfortable. At least in a pinch you could take out a knife and slash the curtain. In a fridge you've got no chance, it's like being locked in a bank vault.
I can't see it being quite as simple as that. Those involved know lorries, trailers & containers as well as or better than anyone. They expected to get them through alive in this container & probably have done before. There has been a mistake made or an accident happened that they didn't foresee I reckon.
Yeah I would agree. Noises point to outright murder but it just has to have been a mistake or an oversight to have gone this far. You would also wonder how many times these people have done it before too and if they did what they did differently.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 29, 2019, 02:11:17 PM
Quote from: oliverkelly on October 29, 2019, 01:33:12 PM
You probably should change your username / at the very least take your email off public before throwing that sort of thing online.
Not his real name. He's calling himself after the worst Ref in Roscommon.
However he should remove the post in case it might prejudice any trial.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 29, 2019, 04:13:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 29, 2019, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: Taylor on October 29, 2019, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 12:38:07 PM
Yeah Itchy the media wording is "interesting". It's not even an us or themmun - it's that he's not British straight away he's Irish. Typical of the british media.
So from what I read here they were going to die either by freezing or by suffocation if the fridge wasn't on :( Is that accurate? Gees it's sounding almost like genocide more than anything here.
Under what scenarios would they have survived??
How do other migrants get through with lorries?
It said on the news yesterday that this was potentially one of a convoy of three lorries - no sign of the other two unless some of the boys arrested were driving these
Curtainsiders wouldn't be hermetically sealed, although they still wouldn't be the most comfortable. At least in a pinch you could take out a knife and slash the curtain. In a fridge you've got no chance, it's like being locked in a bank vault.
I can't see it being quite as simple as that. Those involved know lorries, trailers & containers as well as or better than anyone. They expected to get them through alive in this container & probably have done before. There has been a mistake made or an accident happened that they didn't foresee I reckon.
Yeah I would agree. Noises point to outright murder but it just has to have been a mistake or an oversight to have gone this far. You would also wonder how many times these people have done it before too and if they did what they did differently.
You cannot be convicted of murder without malice aforethought, hence the charge being manslaughter. Manslaughter has a different scale of fault and 'easier' to gain a conviction.
The way to do this would be to be to t**ker with modify the thermostat so that air is being circulated at room temperature but the gauge is showing -25 or whatever u want it to show.
I wonder how many times this has happened before but they just disposed of the bodies somewhere instead of alerting the authorities.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Yeah that is what I was wondering. It sounds like these people had no chance but surely there are people get through. They would presumably do things differently?
Human error is the cause of a lot of tragedies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2019, 06:21:40 PM
I wonder how many times this has happened before but they just disposed of the bodies somewhere instead of alerting the authorities.
It's bound to have happened but it's obviously the first time it's happened this guy and he panicked by alerting the authorities. I'd say if he could go back in time it would be a different story and we'd all be none the wiser about any of this.
Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Yeah that is what I was wondering. It sounds like these people had no chance but surely there are people get through. They would presumably do things differently?
Human error is the cause of a lot of tragedies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise
Yeah it is clearly human error somewhere. I just wonder where.
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2019, 06:21:40 PM
I wonder how many times this has happened before but they just disposed of the bodies somewhere instead of alerting the authorities.
This is the point. This guy was obviously a chancer, but not quite so far down as to throw the cargo off a pier somewhere.
Quote from: seafoid on October 29, 2019, 06:33:33 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 29, 2019, 01:18:29 PM
Yeah that is what I was wondering. It sounds like these people had no chance but surely there are people get through. They would presumably do things differently?
Human error is the cause of a lot of tragedies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise
That's a harrowing read. Three people, and a combined lapse which resulted in the deaths of 193 people. I don't know how they could continue living their own lives after that.
Any more stories or news?
Essex police in Belfast. BBC News - Essex lorry deaths: Police in Belfast after 39 found dead in lorry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50261287
Is it just me or is it the Hughes are looking more and more guilty of being involved somehow by their absence?
Quote from: Square Ball on November 01, 2019, 10:02:17 AM
Essex police in Belfast. BBC News - Essex lorry deaths: Police in Belfast after 39 found dead in lorry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50261287
Is it just me or is it the Hughes are looking more and more guilty of being involved somehow by their absence?
It wasn't a surprise their names came out.....it was an open secret they picked a pocket or two....as the song goes.
Word is that one of them has been on the phone to the police
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 01, 2019, 11:17:55 AM
Word is that one of them has been on the phone to the police
Just read that on BBC news. Bizarre
Quote from: HiMucker on November 01, 2019, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 01, 2019, 11:17:55 AM
Word is that one of them has been on the phone to the police
Just read that on BBC news. Bizarre
He phoned the police just after Mo got lifted - that was reported days ago. Have they been speaking to them again?
Think one rang the police at 2 in the morning after Mo was caught saying he wasn't involved.
The level of tracking available on the units & lorries will lead to convictions against the Hughes brothers if they are in anyway responsible for this horrific tragedy & the previous smuggling...
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 01, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
The level of tracking available on the units & lorries will lead to convictions against the Hughes brothers if they are in anyway responsible for this horrific tragedy & the previous smuggling...
Assuming of course it's accurate enough to stand up to court scrutiny which it hasn't always been in the past.
Quote from: JimStynes on October 29, 2019, 06:21:40 PM
I wonder how many times this has happened before but they just disposed of the bodies somewhere instead of alerting the authorities.
How do you propose to dispose of 39 bodies BrickTop?
(https://carboncostume.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/bricktop.jpg)
Quote from: David McKeown on November 01, 2019, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 01, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
The level of tracking available on the units & lorries will lead to convictions against the Hughes brothers if they are in anyway responsible for this horrific tragedy & the previous smuggling...
Assuming of course it's accurate enough to stand up to court scrutiny which it hasn't always been in the past.
It'll more than likely help them build a picture very quickly of all related parties & movements - I really do think this is the tip of the iceberg to a horrific network being further uncovered.
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 01, 2019, 02:44:00 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on November 01, 2019, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: Will it ever end on November 01, 2019, 12:33:20 PM
The level of tracking available on the units & lorries will lead to convictions against the Hughes brothers if they are in anyway responsible for this horrific tragedy & the previous smuggling...
Assuming of course it's accurate enough to stand up to court scrutiny which it hasn't always been in the past.
It'll more than likely help them build a picture very quickly of all related parties & movements - I really do think this is the tip of the iceberg to a horrific network being further uncovered.
Oh I don't dispute that but our courts have in recent years not allowed a lot of tracking data to be placed before juries because when analysed it's proven to not be reliable enough. Don't know if courts across the water take a different view
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-50326904
Presumably though tracking data can be cross referenced with traffic cams and ANPR cameras and if all agree, it would be a strong case.
Another one arrested, and Mo is up this Monday in court.
NI man arrested in London over Essex lorry deaths
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/essex-lorry-death-investigation-leads-17298727#ICID=Android_BelfastLiveNewsApp_AppShare
The lads who have been arrested are so young, how the f**k did they get thmeselves involved in something so serious? There must be some serious 'mentorships' for them.
Quote from: ludermor on November 22, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
The lads who have been arrested are so young, how the f**k did they get thmeselves involved in something so serious? There must be some serious 'mentorships' for them.
I'm sure in that line of work you would be 'tested' with something a bit more innocent first....then greed takes over.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 22, 2019, 03:55:06 PM
Quote from: ludermor on November 22, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
The lads who have been arrested are so young, how the f**k did they get thmeselves involved in something so serious? There must be some serious 'mentorships' for them.
I'm sure in that line of work you would be 'tested' with something a bit more innocent first....then greed takes over.
Another young fella charged.
Essex lorry: Armagh man, 23, charged with human trafficking offences
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/essex-lorry-armagh-man-23-17307813#ICID=Android_BelfastLiveNewsApp_AppShare
So big Mo knew.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 25, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
So big Mo knew.
Must have sang like a bird. Just a complete and utter sc**bag. Hope this is just the tip of the iceberg and more are scooped
He has one of those faces. One that says he's up to no good
The big thing will be how long he gets now, surely has cut a deal.
anyone know whats happening with the support Mo facebook pages are up to these days?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2019, 10:52:20 AM
He has one of those faces. One that says he's up to no good
To me he looks like an ordinary fella and I'd say that's why he had all the support at the start.
It's all very well saying he has one of those faces in hindsight :) :)
Well i for one am shocked.
SHOCKED I TELL THEE!
Quote from: thebuzz on November 25, 2019, 11:20:32 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 25, 2019, 10:52:20 AM
He has one of those faces. One that says he's up to no good
To me he looks like an ordinary fella and I'd say that's why he had all the support at the start.
It's all very well saying he has one of those faces in hindsight :) :)
Nah I thought so before this morning.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=this+is+england+woody&hl=en&sxsrf=ACYBGNSur17VXQ50smS6W2JTaYWqmfuK1w:1574686208316&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL_dCgs4XmAhXEURUIHSfwANkQ_AUoAXoECA4QAw&biw=1280&bih=878 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=this+is+england+woody&hl=en&sxsrf=ACYBGNSur17VXQ50smS6W2JTaYWqmfuK1w:1574686208316&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjL_dCgs4XmAhXEURUIHSfwANkQ_AUoAXoECA4QAw&biw=1280&bih=878)
Same face as this lad from This is England
Quote from: Square Ball on November 25, 2019, 10:42:10 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 25, 2019, 10:26:47 AM
So big Mo knew.
Must have sang like a bird. Just a complete and utter sc**bag. Hope this is just the tip of the iceberg and more are scooped
Mo Surrender
So Mo Robinson was at this carry on for around 18 months, he must have made some serious loot during that period. Got the taste of some easy money and then greed kicked in without him thinking of any potential consequences. Helped him get a nice house near Markethill out of it. Must have thought it worth the risk of getting caught. Will they have sufficient evidence to convict those at the top of the food chain though, I wouldn't hold my breath as the other 22/23 year olds appear to be just lorry drivers like Robinson.
#jUsTiCe fOr mO
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 25, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
#jUsTiCe fOr mO
Looks like that is exactly what he is getting.
Quote from: Ambrose on November 25, 2019, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 25, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
#jUsTiCe fOr mO
Looks like that is exactly what he is getting.
As someone else said, you just knew by his face. Wonder if the crowd fund is still going ;D
The defendant, of Laurel Drive in Craigavon in Northern Ireland, was not asked to enter pleas to other charges, including the 39 counts of manslaughter.
That is taken from and extract in the Guardian, so why would he not of been asked?
Quote from: Square Ball on November 25, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
The defendant, of Laurel Drive in Craigavon in Northern Ireland, was not asked to enter pleas to other charges, including the 39 counts of manslaughter.
That is taken from and extract in the Guardian, so why would he not of been asked?
I'd imagine he'll have all these charges mysteriously vanish....providing the info keeps coming :-X
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 25, 2019, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 25, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
The defendant, of Laurel Drive in Craigavon in Northern Ireland, was not asked to enter pleas to other charges, including the 39 counts of manslaughter.
That is taken from and extract in the Guardian, so why would he not of been asked?
I'd imagine he'll have all these charges mysteriously vanish....providing the info keeps coming :-X
Another one arrested tonight. Has he reached supergrass status yet?
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 25, 2019, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 25, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
The defendant, of Laurel Drive in Craigavon in Northern Ireland, was not asked to enter pleas to other charges, including the 39 counts of manslaughter.
That is taken from and extract in the Guardian, so why would he not of been asked?
I'd imagine he'll have all these charges mysteriously vanish....providing the info keeps coming :-X
Mo the grass?
I'll get my coat.
Quote from: LeoMc on November 27, 2019, 10:23:11 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on November 25, 2019, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on November 25, 2019, 04:40:36 PM
The defendant, of Laurel Drive in Craigavon in Northern Ireland, was not asked to enter pleas to other charges, including the 39 counts of manslaughter.
That is taken from and extract in the Guardian, so why would he not of been asked?
I'd imagine he'll have all these charges mysteriously vanish....providing the info keeps coming :-X
Mo the grass?
I'll get my coat.
Very good Leo :)
Lorry driver Maurice Robinson (25) from Craigavon in Co Armagh, has pleaded guilty at the Old Bailey in London to the manslaughter of 39 people who were found dead in a refrigerated truck in Essex.
Robinson is one of five men due to appear in court over the deaths of 39 Vietnamese people in October.
He had already pleaded guilty to conspiracy to assist unlawful immigration and acquiring criminal property at the same court on Monday November 25. His outstanding charges include transferring criminal property and conspiracy to commit a human trafficking offence.
39 manslaughter verdicts, plus conspiracy to assist illegal immigration.
We talking 30 years+ here??
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 08, 2020, 04:35:30 PM
39 manslaughter verdicts, plus conspiracy to assist illegal immigration.
We talking 30 years+ here??
I'd have said about half of that maybe a little more.
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Was it the weight of the evidence, or genuine remorse on his part, that led to the guilty plea.
But yes, I would imagine he'll get a lesser sentence if he cooperated and pleaded guilty.
Appeared via video link. Didn't even get a day out! :P
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Sentencing principles would suggest he should get concurrent sentences anyway.
Not so much talk from all these who had Free MO as there Facebook page after it happened.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 08, 2020, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Sentencing principles would suggest he should get concurrent sentences anyway.
What's the idea behind concurrent sentencing? Say I murder 2 people and get caught for one, I go to jail for say 20 years and get out. The 2nd body is then discovered and I get charged and convicted again, sentenced to another 20. But if I get done for 2 murders initially, I get 2 concurrent 20 year sentences.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 09, 2020, 02:24:31 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 08, 2020, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Sentencing principles would suggest he should get concurrent sentences anyway.
What's the idea behind concurrent sentencing? Say I murder 2 people and get caught for one, I go to jail for say 20 years and get out. The 2nd body is then discovered and I get charged and convicted again, sentenced to another 20. But if I get done for 2 murders initially, I get 2 concurrent 20 year sentences.
Well concurrent sentencing should really only be used for offences committed within the same incident or a series of similar incidents in a relatively short period. The idea is that where more than one offence has been committed in the same incident then that will usually be an aggravating feature that would result in an increase in the sentence for each offence (when compared to what the defendant would have received had he only committed the one offence) however it wouldn't be fair to sentence someone to consecutive sentences for each offence. For example if you commit assault a police officer and resist arrest instead of the two months you might have gotten had you only committed the resisting you'd instead get three months for it but it would be concurrent to the 5 months you got on the assault (which might have been 4 but for the resisting) if that makes sense rather than simply imposing consecutive 4 and 2 months sentences.
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 09, 2020, 02:24:31 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 08, 2020, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Sentencing principles would suggest he should get concurrent sentences anyway.
What's the idea behind concurrent sentencing? Say I murder 2 people and get caught for one, I go to jail for say 20 years and get out. The 2nd body is then discovered and I get charged and convicted again, sentenced to another 20. But if I get done for 2 murders initially, I get 2 concurrent 20 year sentences.
I'd advise you to confess ;)
With a name like macdanger this was inevitable
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 10, 2020, 12:31:18 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 09, 2020, 02:24:31 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 08, 2020, 05:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 08, 2020, 04:46:53 PM
If he's "co operated" etc will he get a load of concurrent sentences?
Sentencing principles would suggest he should get concurrent sentences anyway.
What's the idea behind concurrent sentencing? Say I murder 2 people and get caught for one, I go to jail for say 20 years and get out. The 2nd body is then discovered and I get charged and convicted again, sentenced to another 20. But if I get done for 2 murders initially, I get 2 concurrent 20 year sentences.
I'd advise you to confess ;)
To both or just one? ;D
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0612/1147038-lorry-driver-can-be-extradited-over-migrant-deaths/
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0612/1147038-lorry-driver-can-be-extradited-over-migrant-deaths/
Has anyone any idea what sort of prison time we are talking about here for Ronan Hughes? Imagine owning all the stuff mentioned in the article and it being no use to you sitting in a cell for the next few decades.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 12, 2020, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0612/1147038-lorry-driver-can-be-extradited-over-migrant-deaths/
Has anyone any idea what sort of prison time we are talking about here for Ronan Hughes? Imagine owning all the stuff mentioned in the article and it being no use to you sitting in a cell for the next few decades.
Cant imagine he'll be watching Tyholland before 2040.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 12, 2020, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0612/1147038-lorry-driver-can-be-extradited-over-migrant-deaths/
Has anyone any idea what sort of prison time we are talking about here for Ronan Hughes? Imagine owning all the stuff mentioned in the article and it being no use to you sitting in a cell for the next few decades.
Depends on so many factors but I'd say about 15-18 years
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1007/1170050-essex-lorry/
Quote from: seafoid on October 07, 2020, 04:28:25 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/1007/1170050-essex-lorry/
Robinson knew he had to check on the occupants, having been sent a message from his boss to "give them air quickly, but don't let them out", the court heard.
Jesus Christ Almighty.
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What sort of stupid as f**k comment is this?! The first sentence of the article clearly states that they suffocated.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-40212389.html
Mo's singing got him off light enough in the end. He'll be free for his 32nd or 33rd birthday.
He got off lightly. Very lightly.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
He got off lightly. Very lightly.
He sure did get off light with 13 years but I also assume his house and any cash found would have been taken off him too?
Utter scum. Should have thrown away the key.
Quote from: clarshack on January 22, 2021, 05:45:15 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 22, 2021, 05:14:54 PM
He got off lightly. Very lightly.
He sure did get off light with 13 years but I also assume his house and any cash found would have been taken off him too?
Yes I'd assume so, and who the hell would give him a job when he's out??
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
Insensitive yes, racist no.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on January 22, 2021, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
Insensitive yes, racist no.
Agree , many people are exposed to 38.5 c , and survive. Starvation of oxygen is another thing. The morality of illegal immigration has many facets. What is inexcusable is making thousands £££ , and being careless about safety. Ignorance , lack of knowledge and carelessness of the foot soldiers , resulted in a calamity, I doubt it was wilful, and those involved, no doubt are suffering with the thought that their careless greed led to the deaths of vulnerable people. Very sad all round
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
The racism in this case is from the British government who wouldn't let them in the country in the first place. Then try and sell the crime of helping them get in the country by talking about high temperatures. The crime here is that people like those that died in this tragedy are forced into the hands of wreckless not malicious criminals by first world governments. The lads involved in the trafficing got hefty sentences today for trying to help them while making large profits for themselves.
I mean there is work to be done in the black economy which is tolerated and that is where these poor unfortunates were headed. The Irish lads and their friend were just unlucky to mess up.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 22, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
The racism in this case is from the British government who wouldn't let them in the country in the first place. Then try and sell the crime of helping them get in the country by talking about high temperatures. The crime here is that people like those that died in this tragedy are forced into the hands of wreckless not malicious criminals by first world governments. The lads involved in the trafficing got hefty sentences today for trying to help them while making large profits for themselves.
I mean there is work to be done in the black economy which is tolerated and that is where these poor unfortunates were headed. The Irish lads and their friend were just unlucky to mess up.
.....what??
Capt Pat doubling down here. First post was stupid (and yes not racist), 2nd post even stupider 😉
I've no problem with locking these guys up in an air tight van and going for a cuppa tea for a few days....
Anyone who thinks they were doing good by letting them in the country needs to take a long look at themselves
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 22, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
The racism in this case is from the British government who wouldn't let them in the country in the first place. Then try and sell the crime of helping them get in the country by talking about high temperatures. The crime here is that people like those that died in this tragedy are forced into the hands of wreckless not malicious criminals by first world governments. The lads involved in the trafficing got hefty sentences today for trying to help them while making large profits for themselves.
I mean there is work to be done in the black economy which is tolerated and that is where these poor unfortunates were headed. The Irish lads and their friend were just unlucky to mess up.
You have to be taking the piss with this comment? They Irish lads and their friend deserve everything they get.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 22, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
The racism in this case is from the British government who wouldn't let them in the country in the first place. Then try and sell the crime of helping them get in the country by talking about high temperatures. The crime here is that people like those that died in this tragedy are forced into the hands of wreckless not malicious criminals by first world governments. The lads involved in the trafficing got hefty sentences today for trying to help them while making large profits for themselves.
I mean there is work to be done in the black economy which is tolerated and that is where these poor unfortunates were headed. The Irish lads and their friend were just unlucky to mess up.
You on the liquor Cap Pat??
Yeah - they said I will help you as long as each of you pay me at least £13k.
I think the captain is just taking the piss. There's no way anyone could honestly think like that. I reckon mo was singing like a canary to get off with the lightest sentence
Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2021, 02:16:32 PM
I think the captain is just taking the piss. There's no way anyone could honestly think like that. I reckon mo was singing like a canary to get off with the lightest sentence
I don't think so. His sentence was more reflective of someone with a lesser role within the organisation who pleaded guilty at the earliest stage. I think had he been singing like a canary he would have had a far lighter sentence.
Lorry drivers are a different breed.
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2021, 02:16:32 PM
I think the captain is just taking the piss. There's no way anyone could honestly think like that. I reckon mo was singing like a canary to get off with the lightest sentence
I don't think so. His sentence was more reflective of someone with a lesser role within the organisation who pleaded guilty at the earliest stage. I think had he been singing like a canary he would have had a far lighter sentence.
But had the police etc. not got all the info on phones and cctv etc.
It would have been easy enough to put it all together, would it not?
What sentences would they have got had those immigrants been found alive?
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 22, 2021, 11:18:37 PM
Quote from: restorepride on January 22, 2021, 06:33:08 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on October 07, 2020, 11:02:49 PM
"An unbearable 38.5 degrees celsius", surely they are from Vietnam and that is a normal summers day for them. It was the lack of air that did them in.
What an insensitive and scientifically stupid comment - even smacks of racism. Up to you, but you would be well advised to remove it.
The racism in this case is from the British government who wouldn't let them in the country in the first place. Then try and sell the crime of helping them get in the country by talking about high temperatures. The crime here is that people like those that died in this tragedy are forced into the hands of wreckless not malicious criminals by first world governments. The lads involved in the trafficing got hefty sentences today for trying to help them while making large profits for themselves.
I mean there is work to be done in the black economy which is tolerated and that is where these poor unfortunates were headed. The Irish lads and their friend were just unlucky to mess up.
This cannot be a serious post
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: general_lee on January 23, 2021, 02:16:32 PM
I think the captain is just taking the piss. There's no way anyone could honestly think like that. I reckon mo was singing like a canary to get off with the lightest sentence
I don't think so. His sentence was more reflective of someone with a lesser role within the organisation who pleaded guilty at the earliest stage. I think had he been singing like a canary he would have had a far lighter sentence.
You reckon? Just I had heard it said locally that he liked to flash the cash, not being exactly discreet with his previous earnings. Is consideration taken into the fact that the victims had sadly all perished by the time he had collected the trailer?
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Quote from: trileacman on January 23, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
They're expected to serve two thirds, instead of half, as per judgement.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Quote from: trileacman on January 23, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Sentencing law in England tends to change far more regularly than over here. At the minute they can be released at 1/2 point and must be released at 2/3 is the position as far as I am aware.
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 23, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Sentencing law in England tends to change far more regularly than over here. At the minute they can be released at 1/2 point and must be released at 2/3 is the position as far as I am aware.
Why must they be released at 2/3 then?
Quote from: StPatsAbu on January 24, 2021, 12:20:32 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 23, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Sentencing law in England tends to change far more regularly than over here. At the minute they can be released at 1/2 point and must be released at 2/3 is the position as far as I am aware.
Why must they be released at 2/3 then?
Presumably must be released unless they did something in jail.
Quote from: armaghniac on January 24, 2021, 12:57:07 AM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on January 24, 2021, 12:20:32 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 11:40:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 23, 2021, 11:02:03 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on January 23, 2021, 10:54:22 PM
All the circumstances will be taken into account but I doubt he would have received much credit for that. I think he could have been well paid and therefore able to flash cash whilst still playing a relatively minor role in the entire operation. In any sentencing exercise the court will decide what the defendant would have received had they contested the matter and then will allow discount for personal mitigation and early pleas etc. A guilty plea at the earliest opportunity will attract up to 1/3 discount in normal circumstances. The sentence in this case strikes me as a 20 year sentence with a 1/3 discount for early plea.
What's the soonest you would expect these guys to be released?
Sentencing law in England tends to change far more regularly than over here. At the minute they can be released at 1/2 point and must be released at 2/3 is the position as far as I am aware.
Why must they be released at 2/3 then?
Presumably must be released unless they did something in jail.
No it's automatic release. We have something similar. Over here if you commit what's called either a specified or serious offence you get one of 4 sentences. A DCS, an ECS, an ICS or a life sentence.
At the point of sentence the Court will look at you and decide if you are dangerous or not ie if you are highly likely to commit another violent or sexual offence. If you aren't you get a DCS. If you are you get one of the other sentences depending on how dangerous you are.
With a DCS the judge sets how much of your sentence will be spent in custody and how much will be spent on licence. (Maximum of half in custody). This is the most common type of sentence here.
An ECS is different in the Judge sets the length of the sentence then adds an extra period of licence. With an ECS you can be released once you reach the half point of your sentence but only if you can convince the Parole Commissioners you aren't a risk of serious harm anymore. You then remain subject to licence to the end of the period set by the court.
In E@W their sentencing is much more complicated with up to 30 different types of sentence depending on the offence and the risk posed by the offender. Some of these allow for automatic release at 50% some at 66.67% and some at 75%. Some also allow for discretionary release earlier than this at the discretion of the Secretary of State. The sentences these guy got is one of those sentences that allows for discretionary release at 50% but with automatic release at 66:67%. After that they remain on licence until the end of their sentence.
Anyone see the bbc documentary the other night they where well caught..
Thankfully they retrieved the Nokia prepay phone which was the key to it all. The way they traced it from there was well done.
What a sc**bag move open a trailer full of dead bodies and then drive round calling other scumbags to see what to do. I know it wasn't a probable outcome but would it not have been an idea to get them help in case any where saleable at that stage.
One of the points I don't think it explained and I don't think it explained on show. What had spooked mo on way out of port?
Saw it wt4e, posted on the tv thread as couldnt remember if we had a thread on it. Couple of comments in there. Decent show though obviously chilling. Dont know answer to your question
Quote from: WT4E on October 15, 2021, 10:30:09 PM
Anyone see the bbc documentary the other night they where well caught..
Thankfully they retrieved the Nokia prepay phone which was the key to it all. The way they traced it from there was well done.
What a sc**bag move open a trailer full of dead bodies and then drive round calling other scumbags to see what to do. I know it wasn't a probable outcome but would it not have been an idea to get them help in case any where saleable at that stage.
One of the points I don't think it explained and I don't think it explained on show. What had spooked mo on way out of port?
I'd say probably he was asked some question about the contents of the container at the barrier to the exit and had the momentary fear that it could be inspected. The detective used that close circuit image as evidence that Robinson knew he was carrying people and from that point the course of the questioning changed.
I thought it was because of the delayed sailing. If he was aware it was a sealed unit he may have had an idea there was limited air.
Yeah I thought I remember some exchange of messages about something which concluded with give them air but don't let the. Out.
As someone said on the other thread this still goes on and I wish the authorities would clamp down on it so that these wankers making big bucks where caught at it. Has there been anyone caught since this happened?
Quote from: WT4E on October 16, 2021, 10:56:44 PM
Yeah I thought I remember some exchange of messages about something which concluded with give them air but don't let the. Out.
As someone said on the other thread this still goes on and I wish the authorities would clamp down on it so that these wankers making big bucks where caught at it. Has there been anyone caught since this happened?
Yes he was to give them air but not let them out.
jaysus i must have only been half watchin. If thats true then tis a surprise he didnt get longer.
Did they also allude to the fact that the suffocation was due to the large nos and that 15 had crossed a short time previous with no issues ie pure greed in operation
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 16, 2021, 11:16:50 PM
jaysus i must have only been half watchin. If thats true then tis a surprise he didnt get longer.
Did they also allude to the fact that the suffocation was due to the large nos and that 15 had crossed a short time previous with no issues ie pure greed in operation
I dont know if it was covered in the programme but it was def reported. Serious amount of CCTV involved to stitch that story together. The peelers in England getting a serious going over at thr minute but when you see this they seem to have done a serious job in a relatively short period.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 16, 2021, 11:05:01 PM
Quote from: WT4E on October 16, 2021, 10:56:44 PM
Yeah I thought I remember some exchange of messages about something which concluded with give them air but don't let the. Out.
As someone said on the other thread this still goes on and I wish the authorities would clamp down on it so that these wankers making big bucks where caught at it. Has there been anyone caught since this happened?
Yes he was to give them air but not let them out.
You guys have not watched the documentary carefully, if at all. The question put in this thread was why was Robinson freaked out (to some extent) when driving out with the container lorry from the dock. That incident was captured clearly by CCtv, in his cab he became somewhat animated in the exchanges which took place between him and the person in charge of the barrier and this was noted by the detective in charge.
Why complicate the interpretation of that incident that took place with irrelevant opinions? The question was, why was he freaked out and it follows, why was that incident relevant to the investigation?
The sms message about letting in air came 10 - 15 mins later after the barrier was lifted when he drove away from the dock.
Yeah that's my point did they know something was up when they lifted the trailer - obviously they had done it plenty of times before.
To me I thought the fact Mo was agitated at the barrier and the message about giving them air where related.
According to the investigation team, Mo got clearly agitated when asked about the contents of the lorry.
I think locking Mo up in a limited air tight container wouldn't be an issue with most people, these guys are vermin, soulless people.
Making a living off trafficking people, who'll probably in most cases be slaves to pay off their debt owed for getting into the country
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:37:02 PM
I think locking Mo up in a limited air tight container wouldn't be an issue with most people, these guys are vermin, soulless people.
Making a living off trafficking people, who'll probably in most cases be slaves to pay off their debt owed for getting into the country
Mo was just a well paid errand boy in the scheme of that criminal enterprise.
I thought it bit odd that the investigation team referred to him as Mo and not full name or family name.
Another odd thing (imo), the documentary team had full access to Mo's interrogation footage as well as cam video of him dwelling on his fate in private moments in his cell. That documentary has put him up front as the hapless character, the face which represents all the ugliness of the criminal enterprise and the horror consequences of this one, even though they were all dead by the time it was his turn at the wheel.
Agreed. Hes still "the face" of it all and will be.
Quote from: Main Street on October 20, 2021, 08:56:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:37:02 PM
I think locking Mo up in a limited air tight container wouldn't be an issue with most people, these guys are vermin, soulless people.
Making a living off trafficking people, who'll probably in most cases be slaves to pay off their debt owed for getting into the country
Mo was just a well paid errand boy in the scheme of that criminal enterprise.
I thought it bit odd that the investigation team referred to him as Mo and not full name or family name.
Another odd thing (imo), the documentary team had full access to Mo's interrogation footage as well as cam video of him dwelling on his fate in private moments in his cell. That documentary has put him up front as the hapless character, the face which represents all the ugliness of the criminal enterprise and the horror consequences of this one, even though they were all dead by the time it was his turn at the wheel.
He still didn't have to do it and he knew what he was doing, he knew what could happen and trafficking like this happens every day no doubt. I hope he never gets out, along with the rest that was involved.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 10:02:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 20, 2021, 08:56:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 02:37:02 PM
I think locking Mo up in a limited air tight container wouldn't be an issue with most people, these guys are vermin, soulless people.
Making a living off trafficking people, who'll probably in most cases be slaves to pay off their debt owed for getting into the country
Mo was just a well paid errand boy in the scheme of that criminal enterprise.
I thought it bit odd that the investigation team referred to him as Mo and not full name or family name.
Another odd thing (imo), the documentary team had full access to Mo's interrogation footage as well as cam video of him dwelling on his fate in private moments in his cell. That documentary has put him up front as the hapless character, the face which represents all the ugliness of the criminal enterprise and the horror consequences of this one, even though they were all dead by the time it was his turn at the wheel.
He still didn't have to do it and he knew what he was doing, he knew what could happen and trafficking like this happens every day no doubt. I hope he never gets out, along with the rest that was involved.
He's still at the lower end, it's the other 3 who you should be directing the most of your angst against, yet you and most everybody else just gangs up on Mo, the face that was imposed upon the grizzly gang by that documentary.
That's tabloid mentality, not thinking too deep about the conspiracy, just string Mo up because that all you see, the dopey looking sap. You're tabloid fodder ;D
Never watched the show or buy newspapers, the guy is a tr**p, the lowest kind of Cnut who was pure greedy, it doesn't matter which end of the scale he's on, he knew what he was doing and was being paid to traffic humans from a to b ...
whether he carries the can for it will never change, he did it willingly, probably not his first trip and had he not been caught would have continued to do it.
Did he give up the higher end dealers?
But sure you keep giving him some sympathy.
Didn't Mo get the lower end of the prison terms?? That's enough of a break for him I would suggest!!
Quote from: screenexile on October 21, 2021, 12:46:43 AM
Didn't Mo get the lower end of the prison terms?? That's enough of a break for him I would suggest!!
Watched the show last night, he got 13 years which I'd imagine is the lower end. The ringleaders Ronan Highes and the Romanian got 20 something each.
He was well caught with the Nokia battery.
"Why did ye throw it away"
"Cos i thought would maybe look bad me with two phones"
Fcukin right it did mate...
At a guess would the Mo boy be out in around 8yrs if he behaves?
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 21, 2021, 09:10:07 AM
"Why did ye throw it away"
"Cos i thought would maybe look bad me with two phones"
Fcukin right it did mate...
At a guess would the Mo boy be out in around 8yrs if he behaves?
Said he needed the old Nokia as the phone signals in Denmark were poor but the Nokia still worked...
Why he kept the battery we'll never know unless he wanted to dispose of it responsibly.
Wonder how many runs they did before this one.
Greed got the better of them it seems and had too many in the container and with the delay in the crossing it was never going to be good.
Where was this documentary shown?
Likely completely forgot about the battery in all the panic.
Watched it last night, harrowing viewing.
Did he get done for manslaughter? How did they prove he caused their death?
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
Did he get done for manslaughter? How did they prove he caused their death?
He knowingly picked up a load of people who were in a very dangerous situation.
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 21, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
Did he get done for manslaughter? How did they prove he caused their death?
He knowingly picked up a load of people who were in a very dangerous situation.
Surprised he got done for manslaughter though unless the prosecution clearly proved he caused their death.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 11:01:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 21, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
Did he get done for manslaughter? How did they prove he caused their death?
He knowingly picked up a load of people who were in a very dangerous situation.
Surprised he got done for manslaughter though unless the prosecution clearly proved he caused their death.
Manslaughter can cover a whole spectrum of possibilities. He intentionally committed an illegal act that could reasonably be assumed to put someone in harm's way.
He was part of a gang that locked them up in a lorry with no air supply. They suffocated to death. Pretty easy in the end to prove he caused their death.
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 11:01:37 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 21, 2021, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on October 21, 2021, 10:19:20 AM
Did he get done for manslaughter? How did they prove he caused their death?
He knowingly picked up a load of people who were in a very dangerous situation.
Surprised he got done for manslaughter though unless the prosecution clearly proved he caused their death.
He demanded the lorry be full with 39, not just 5 or 6 immigrants. They had no chance of surviving in those temperatures and the crowd of people inside.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55234393
Well folks, I made a trip to Vietnam to meet some of the families who lost loved ones in this tragedy.
It was an emotional journey, but well worth it in order to show them some love and solidarity from home.
I did a utv interview yesterday which can be viewed here:
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2023-02-16/lorry-driver-travels-to-vietnam-to-meet-families-of-migrants-who-died-in-essex
Plus an interview on Radio Ulster
Listen from 40 minutes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001j41q?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
Will try and post more about it later when I get to a better wi fi area.
Quote from: give her dixie on February 17, 2023, 05:21:43 AM
Well folks, I made a trip to Vietnam to meet some of the families who lost loved ones in this tragedy.
It was an emotional journey, but well worth it in order to show them some love and solidarity from home.
I did a utv interview yesterday which can be viewed here:
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2023-02-16/lorry-driver-travels-to-vietnam-to-meet-families-of-migrants-who-died-in-essex
Plus an interview on Radio Ulster
Listen from 40 minutes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001j41q?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
Will try and post more about it later when I get to a better wi fi area.
Fair play.
You're a good guy GHD.
Well done give her Dixie!
Quote from: give her dixie on February 17, 2023, 05:21:43 AM
Well folks, I made a trip to Vietnam to meet some of the families who lost loved ones in this tragedy.
It was an emotional journey, but well worth it in order to show them some love and solidarity from home.
I did a utv interview yesterday which can be viewed here:
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2023-02-16/lorry-driver-travels-to-vietnam-to-meet-families-of-migrants-who-died-in-essex
Plus an interview on Radio Ulster
Listen from 40 minutes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001j41q?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile
Will try and post more about it later when I get to a better wi fi area.
That's a very admirable and noble thing to do.