The US policing crisis thread

[whitey]

Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

I was repointing to your comment

"If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here."

[J70]

Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

I was repointing to your comment

"If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here."

I stand by that.

[whitey]

So you would personally would say "fvck the police"? (Because that what you wrote whether you meant to)

[Eamonnca1]

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

What purveyors of the "bad apples" analogy seem to forget is that if an apple goes bad in the barrel, it doesn't mean you're just at risk of eating the bad one. A bad apple can cause all the others to rot. A small number of bad cops can turn an entire police force's culture around to the point where they're all bent because of their tendency to stick together and back each other up no matter how bad they are.

I wonder how many of the sycophantic cop bootlickers here were opposed to reform of the "gallant RUC" who were "doing a difficult and dangerous job, often sacrificing their lives to keep the people safe." Probably not a whole lot of them. All of the arguments I hear from people defending the cops are exactly the same arguments put forward by the unionists who didn't want to hear about RUC reform.

But it's different when your own people are on the receiving end of police violence. Anyone ever notice that?

[whitey]

Eamonn-i never knew thousands of Catholics murdering each other every year during the Troubles (and that the RUC were only stepping in to stop the bloodshed)

[Milltown Row2]

Eamonn-i never knew thousands of Catholics murdering each other every year during the Troubles (and that the RUC were only stepping in to stop the bloodshed)

Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

[Eamonnca1]

Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.

[whitey]

Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.

Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

[johnnycool]

Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

We've been hating the police here for years! Many still do

Because they didn't represent the community we were from, maybe there's a similar issue in the US

[Milltown Row2]

Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

We've been hating the police here for years! Many still do

Because they didn't represent the community we were from, maybe there's a similar issue in the US

No way!!!!!!!!!!!! That couldnt be the case in the states! the cops are so wonderful

[sid waddell]

It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

[Chief]

It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

[whitey]

It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."

[Chief]

It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."

How is black-on-black violence a justification or helpful context when discussing police discrimination to the black community?

Are you saying we shouldn't complain about police murders of black people, and other injustices also, until their communities get their own house in order?

Catholic's killing Catholic's were a real thing during the Troubles (IRA killed something like 400 Catholic's). But I never recall that justifying RUC partisanship.

[sid waddell]

It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."

Why do you say blackness is in and of itself a reason for criminality?

What's your reasoning for this?

How does the mere fact of somebody's blackness make them more likely to be a criminal, as you claim?