County Champions and Ulster Finallists Ballinderry Thrown out of Championship

[seamusthebard]

Thank you JMOHAN, your thoughts are much more balanced than the "johnny come lately! Your perceptions are absolutely correct. No one from ballinderry that i have been talking to thought that there should not be punishment but wanted fair play in the circumstances. Remember the Melee was started by Kilrea, not even Kilrea denies that, James Kielt got heavily involved in it, ballinderry had a player injured as well. They felt that the actions of Damian cassidy and The County board was premature and that they had taken the word of an impartial witness and had not got the full story.

By the Way, I'm led to believe that in similiar circumstances in the county over the immediate past that clubs have had their pitches closed, made play all their games at opponents grounds, heavy fine but never suspended and certainly not thrown out of the championship.

PS. Overthe post, calm down your language!

[JMohan]

Would Cassidy have dropped Paddy Bradley in a similar case?

[OverThePostsAWide]

Thank you JMOHAN, your thoughts are much more balanced than the "johnny come lately! Your perceptions are absolutely correct. No one from ballinderry that i have been talking to thought that there should not be punishment but wanted fair play in the circumstances. Remember the Melee was started by Kilrea, not even Kilrea denies that, James Kielt got heavily involved in it, ballinderry had a player injured as well. They felt that the actions of Damian cassidy and The County board was premature and that they had taken the word of an impartial witness and had not got the full story.

By the Way, I'm led to believe that in similiar circumstances in the county over the immediate past that clubs have had their pitches closed, made play all their games at opponents grounds, heavy fine but never suspended and certainly not thrown out of the championship.

PS. Overthe post, calm down your language!

No problem. My apologies if you felt "sh*te" and "Ass" where beyond the pale. You must be from the sensitive side of Ballinderry (that's the bit in Tyrone, I presume?). How did you know I'm called Johnny? 

But you still haven't answered my perfectly reasonable and polite question as to what your opinion of an appropriate punishment should be. You are tippy-toeing around closing pitches, heavy fines, etc. Well, what would do you think is an appropriate sanction? You have an opinion that the CB have been heavy handed but don't know by how much? Speak up man! This is your chance to escape that DUP-like whataboutery! You know what you don't want, but don't know (or won't say) what you do? 

Personally, I don't hold too much store by going back through historical cases quoting precedence. For example, if things were done wrong in the past, that's no good reason to repeat them. As the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do".

If jaws were broken in your club previously, then they should have been thoroughly investigated and appropriate sanctions brought to bear. That fact that they weren't, is no good reason to not thoroughly address this issue anew.

As I said before, if it happened to me or mine, I would take it to court if the GAA didn't act promptly and effectively. There should be zero tolerence to serious violence in the GAA. Do you not agree?

[JMohan]

Thank you JMOHAN, your thoughts are much more balanced than the "johnny come lately! Your perceptions are absolutely correct. No one from ballinderry that i have been talking to thought that there should not be punishment but wanted fair play in the circumstances. Remember the Melee was started by Kilrea, not even Kilrea denies that, James Kielt got heavily involved in it, ballinderry had a player injured as well. They felt that the actions of Damian cassidy and The County board was premature and that they had taken the word of an impartial witness and had not got the full story.

By the Way, I'm led to believe that in similiar circumstances in the county over the immediate past that clubs have had their pitches closed, made play all their games at opponents grounds, heavy fine but never suspended and certainly not thrown out of the championship.

PS. Overthe post, calm down your language!

No problem. My apologies if you felt "sh*te" and "Ass" where beyond the pale. You must be from the sensitive side of Ballinderry (that's the bit in Tyrone, I presume?). How did you know I'm called Johnny? 

But you still haven't answered my perfectly reasonable and polite question as to what your opinion of an appropriate punishment should be. You are tippy-toeing around closing pitches, heavy fines, etc. Well, what would do you think is an appropriate sanction? You have an opinion that the CB have been heavy handed but don't know by how much? Speak up man! This is your chance to escape that DUP-like whataboutery! You know what you don't want, but don't know (or won't say) what you do? 

Personally, I don't hold too much store by going back through historical cases quoting precedence. For example, if things were done wrong in the past, that's no good reason to repeat them. As the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do".

If jaws were broken in your club previously, then they should have been thoroughly investigated and appropriate sanctions brought to bear. That fact that they weren't, is no good reason to not thoroughly address this issue anew.

As I said before, if it happened to me or mine, I would take it to court if the GAA didn't act promptly and effectively. There should be zero tolerence to serious violence in the GAA. Do you not agree?

I think the question is - Should James Conway not be charged by the CCC and then given a chance to defend himself BEFORE being banned?

[slow corner back]

Conways ban has been lifted, he is not currently banned. He is however currently dropped off the the Derry county panel which is entirely at the discretion of Damian Cassidy. If Ballinderry manage to get the club ban overturned and return to playing there is currently nothin g to stop Conway fielding for them. All Ballinderry need is for the guilty party to step forward and accept responsibilty for his actions. The fact that the guilty party refuses to do this has lead to all this aggro. The blame for this whole scenario is a player who thinks its alright to break someones jaw but then expects all his clubmates to carry the can.

[slow corner back]

Thank you JMOHAN, your thoughts are much more balanced than the "johnny come lately! Your perceptions are absolutely correct. No one from ballinderry that i have been talking to thought that there should not be punishment but wanted fair play in the circumstances. Remember the Melee was started by Kilrea, not even Kilrea denies that, James Kielt got heavily involved in it, ballinderry had a player injured as well. They felt that the actions of Damian cassidy and The County board was premature and that they had taken the word of an impartial witness and had not got the full story.

By the Way, I'm led to believe that in similiar circumstances in the county over the immediate past that clubs have had their pitches closed, made play all their games at opponents grounds, heavy fine but never suspended and certainly not thrown out of the championship.

PS. Overthe post, calm down your language!

Cargin were thrown out of the ulster club championship and the Antrim championship for the following season, Dunloy were banned from the ulster club championship

[Archie Mitchell]

Bit of a difference with the Cargin incident though. It was in a County Final where there was camera's present, so plenty of evidence for the County Board to act on and give out suspensions.

[slow corner back]

Yes and if the ballinderry player stepped forward and took his ban ballinderry would not be suspended just the player. In both the Cargin StPauls and Dunloy Lavey matches there were individual player bans AND club punishments. If you dont like Ballinderry getting the boot speak to the individual who struck Kielt and persuade him to be a man and take his ban.

[OverThePostsAWide]

Thank you JMOHAN, your thoughts are much more balanced than the "johnny come lately! Your perceptions are absolutely correct. No one from ballinderry that i have been talking to thought that there should not be punishment but wanted fair play in the circumstances. Remember the Melee was started by Kilrea, not even Kilrea denies that, James Kielt got heavily involved in it, ballinderry had a player injured as well. They felt that the actions of Damian cassidy and The County board was premature and that they had taken the word of an impartial witness and had not got the full story.

By the Way, I'm led to believe that in similiar circumstances in the county over the immediate past that clubs have had their pitches closed, made play all their games at opponents grounds, heavy fine but never suspended and certainly not thrown out of the championship.

PS. Overthe post, calm down your language!

No problem. My apologies if you felt "sh*te" and "Ass" where beyond the pale. You must be from the sensitive side of Ballinderry (that's the bit in Tyrone, I presume?). How did you know I'm called Johnny? 

But you still haven't answered my perfectly reasonable and polite question as to what your opinion of an appropriate punishment should be. You are tippy-toeing around closing pitches, heavy fines, etc. Well, what would do you think is an appropriate sanction? You have an opinion that the CB have been heavy handed but don't know by how much? Speak up man! This is your chance to escape that DUP-like whataboutery! You know what you don't want, but don't know (or won't say) what you do? 

Personally, I don't hold too much store by going back through historical cases quoting precedence. For example, if things were done wrong in the past, that's no good reason to repeat them. As the saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do".

If jaws were broken in your club previously, then they should have been thoroughly investigated and appropriate sanctions brought to bear. That fact that they weren't, is no good reason to not thoroughly address this issue anew.

As I said before, if it happened to me or mine, I would take it to court if the GAA didn't act promptly and effectively. There should be zero tolerence to serious violence in the GAA. Do you not agree?

I think the question is - Should James Conway not be charged by the CCC and then given a chance to defend himself BEFORE being banned?

I think this has been answered many times already has it not? Cassidy is a dictator! No court can overturn his decision as who should or shouldn't be on his squad. Do you not think Baker had the right to drop CJ McGourty? Not whether he was right to, but had the right to?

Personally, if I ever become manager I will ban redheads from my squad. "Gingers" are a disruptive influence   Could present some difficulties if I ever get the Derry job though

Conway was charged by the CCC and they were shown up to be the fools that they are because they had no evidence to back their charge up and the case was dismissed. Quite right too in the absence of evidence (or an admission).

But even if you feel Conway was hard done by being dropped from the squad, surely you can see that County Squad participation is by invitation (i.e. no-one has a right to participate) and that invite can be withdrawn at any time and for any reason. If Cassidy feels that for whatever reason it is not in the best interests of the squad to include him, is that not his perogative? No court of any sort could overturn that. You may not agree with his reasons or judgement, but surely you can see that Cassidy is entitled (even expected) to make that call? The same goes for schools and colleges teams and Development squads, etc. No?

[JMohan]

I think this has been answered many times already has it not? Cassidy is a dictator! No court can overturn his decision as who should or shouldn't be on his squad. Do you not think Baker had the right to drop CJ McGourty? Not whether he was right to, but had the right to?

Personally, if I ever become manager I will ban redheads from my squad. "Gingers" are a disruptive influence   Could present some difficulties if I ever get the Derry job though

Conway was charged by the CCC and they were shown up to be the fools that they are because they had no evidence to back their charge up and the case was dismissed. Quite right too in the absence of evidence (or an admission).

But even if you feel Conway was hard done by being dropped from the squad, surely you can see that County Squad participation is by invitation (i.e. no-one has a right to participate) and that invite can be withdrawn at any time and for any reason. If Cassidy feels that for whatever reason it is not in the best interests of the squad to include him, is that not his perogative? No court of any sort could overturn that. You may not agree with his reasons or judgement, but surely you can see that Cassidy is entitled (even expected) to make that call? The same goes for schools and colleges teams and Development squads, etc. No?

I take your point.
(In my opinion the McCourty thing is completely different - he personally insulted the manager was confronted and admitted it and said he was right to be dropped. It's not the same thing.)

You're right as a manager Cassidy can invite whoever he wants on to the panel, but to drop someone, you usually need a good reason. He obviously thought he had a good reason. The problem was though that he didn't think it through fully for this year or for the future. You can't just drop guys because they were accused of throwing a punch, you at least should ask them for their side of the story. For example - let's say Conway accuses Keilt of provocation - of hitting him earlier in the game or one of his team mates in the melee just before he hit him or accuses Keilt of taunting him, insulted a member of his family or another's family etc ... I'm not saying he did, I'm just saying lets say at an appeal Conway says this - this is a mitigating issue. Doesn't absolve him, doesn't let him off. But it must be heard or considered as part of the charge.   

Anyway - just because Cassidy can do what he likes doesn't make him right.

One other thing - if Cassidy thinks he's a dictator and can act how he pleases then Derry are screwed for a long time to come. All the signs are he thinks he's a dictator.

Cassidy has made a stick to beat himself with.
I'm just waiting until Eoin Bradley or Gerard O'Kane clip someone in a nightclub or on the field and we'll see how straight Cassidy is then.
Not to mention alienating one of the biggest clubs in Derry.

Justice must be done and seen to be done fairly - to both Keilt and Conway, that's all.
I think on that we agree! 

[seamusthebard]

Thank you JMOHAN. What you have said is exactly in my opinion, why it made it so difficult for Ballinderry to act. If others would have maybe put the same thought process into it that you have, I don't that we would in the sorry mess we are in now.

PS. Overthebar, I don't understand what side of the Ballinderry Bridge I am on really matters in this instance but it obviously does to you. Could that be part of the problem as well especially as the week that is in it!

BTW, you conveniently don't me4ntion your own club, it couldn't b e that big an embarrassment!

[DEL]

Will players have to have jaws broken for clubs to name culprits?
Will every player injured in a row at a match be able to look for similar justice?
Rows happen shock horror and if you are able to throw a few punches you expect a few.
The whole incident is a shambles from the county board and county manager.
The reff missed it thats it.

[Overthebar!]

PS. Overthebar, I don't understand what side of the Ballinderry Bridge I am on really matters in this instance but it obviously does to you. Could that be part of the problem as well especially as the week that is in it!

BTW, you conveniently don't me4ntion your own club, it couldn't b e that big an embarrassment!

me?what did i do?
i think you mean overthepostsandwide or whatever he is called. i am insulted seamus!!!

[LeoMc]

Can't fins the relevant posts but a few Tyrone posters suggested the Ballinderry boys could switch allegiances south of the Ballinderry river.

Now I know that is not a realistic proposition but could Ballinderry, in theory transfer to the Tyrone leagues?
Would it be as simple as the Tyrone board saying aye come on in or would they need released by Derry?
As the grounds are held in trust by Croke Park would they need clearance from there?

Ballinderry will not be using their pitch for the next 6 months
Coalisland need a pitch for their home games for the next 6 months
A marriage made in heaven!!!

[The GAA]

Conway should take the derry county board to court for character defamation. there was no evidence produced nor due process followed before banning him.