Garret FitzGerald RIP

[FL/MAYO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY1mNzmD6Xw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Fuzzy clip of the Frank Stagg funeral with Garret interviewed in it.

[Eamonnca1]

.... I completely disagreed with the way he and Mrs. Thatcher tried to impose the Anglo-Irish Agreement over the heads of virtually the entire Unionist population

Play me the world's smallest violin.

[mylestheslasher]

Your spot on again Gaffer,my respect lies with the Hunger strikers,along with the tens of thousands who voted for them ,the hundreds of thousands who attended their funerals.They will be remembered forever in song and verse,and their names and writings quoted around the world were inslaved peoples struggle for freedom.In years to come heads of state will bow their heads in Remembrance as they do today to the hero's of 1916.

I daresay the Hunger Strikers will be remembered all right, but by whom?

A few hundred, even a few thousand activists, who will continue to gather at gravesides and memorials at Easter and on various other anniversaries, to hear stirring speakers and tinny bands.

Meanwhile, this will pass right over the heads of the nearly six million Irish people who rightly or wrongly, consider they have better things to be doing    with their time.

And I say this because when someone mentioned Michael Gaughan earlier, despite my having had to have been aware of him at the time of his death etc, when I opened his Wiki link, it didn't produce even the merest glimmer of a memory. Even with Frank Stagg, whilst I vaguely recognised it as the name of a hunger striker, I suspect this may only have been because I remember a quip* about him which someone made at the time.



* - I'll not repeat it, since I doubt it would be appreciated by many on this forum.

Garret,well he will be lucky to fill 1/2 page in our history books.

Getting back on topic, whilst I completely disagreed with the way he and Mrs. Thatcher tried to impose the Anglo-Irish Agreement over the heads of virtually the entire Unionist population etc, nonetheless I remember Garret  as being a principled and honourable man, whose intentions were always noble.

I don't know how much he'll be remembered, but he surely deserves to be (     imo).

Fallen patriots are not forgotten in this country, I thought you of all people would no this. Aren't gaa pitches in some parts named after them!

[Eamonnca1]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

[glens abu]

So you didn t like Fitzgerald attitude to the Hunger Strikers. Maybe he didn t see them as freedom fighters but as part of organisations who were only good at killing people whom he found abhorrant !

Got it at last Gaffer,so as I said I will pay him the same respect as he paid the Hunger strikers,but I would have thought the leader of a country and someone who was supposed to be a humanitarian could have at least agreed to meet their families afterall they had killed none.Then again to do that he might have had to grow a pair before he faced Maggie who no doubt would have slapped his wrist for going against her instructions.So no respect from me as I found him abhorrent.

Oh I got you first time Glen. I realised  that you were a provo lover who felt that Garrett Fitzgerald should have done what the Provos wanted him to do. Garett was representing the views of the majority of nationalists both north and south at that time who were totally opposed to the provos. He ll did what he believed to be right. I wouldn t think he would have cared two hoots what you thought .

Your spot on again Gaffer,my respect lies with the Hunger strikers,along with the tens of thousands who voted for them ,the hundreds of thousands who attended their funerals.They will be remembered forever in song and verse,and their names and writings quoted around the world were inslaved peoples struggle for freedom.In years to come heads of state will bow their heads in Remembrance as they do today to the hero's of 1916.Garret,well he will be lucky to fill 1/2 page in our history books.Sinn e[/quote]


Well, if Garrett had decided to murder people , go to jail , go on hunger strike, die then maybe people wouldprobably  have been singing about him.

He was very successful in elections as well and over many years as well.  His policies got thousands of votes too ,
[/quote]

Very good Gaffer well you and Evil Genius can start your wee commemoration committee for Garret think you three are well matched.I will stick to commemorating the real heroes of Ireland along with thousands every year.

[Nally Stand]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

As far as successive dublin governments go, their ideals have certainly been forgotten 

[Evil Genius]

.... I completely disagreed with the way he and Mrs. Thatcher tried to impose the Anglo-Irish Agreement over the heads of virtually the entire Unionist population

Play me the world's smallest violin.

Your sympathy is noted, even though it was neither solicited nor needed.

(The key word was "tried"  )

[Rossfan]

t I completely disagreed with the way he and Mrs. Thatcher tried to impose the Anglo-Irish Agreement over the heads of virtually the entire Unionist population

Mrs T. didnt pass much heed to the Unionist Veto on that one

[Evil Genius]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

Well I guess it's always possible that in another half century or so, History will be revised so as to "honour" the likes of Gaughan and Stagg - after all, it's so much easier after all who were alive at the time of their deeds have themselves passed away.

But as one who is more concerned with living history, I take some reassurance from the fact that Garret got a State Funeral, whereas Stagg* and Gaughan didn't.


* - Unless you count 100 free Air Miles from Dublin to Shannon and 6 foot of State-funded concrete 

[Nally Stand]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

Well I guess it's always possible that in another half century or so, History will be revised so as to "honour" the likes of Gaughan and Stagg - after all, it's so much easier after everyone who was alive at the time of their deeds have themselves passed away.

But as one who is more concerned with living history, I take some reassurance from the fact that Garret got a State Funeral, whereas Stagg* and Gaughan didn't.


* - Unless you count 100 free Air Miles from Dublin to Shannon and 6 foot of State-funded concrete 

Aye that was so funny wasnt it.....

[Evil Genius]

t I completely disagreed with the way he and Mrs. Thatcher tried to impose the Anglo-Irish Agreement over the heads of virtually the entire Unionist population

Mrs T. didnt pass much heed to the Unionist Veto on that one

Indeed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Irish_Agreement :
Thatcher was taken aback by the ferocity of the unionist response and in her memoirs she said their reaction was "worse than anyone had predicted to me". She furthermore claimed that the Agreement was in the tradition of British governments refraining "from security policies that might alienate the Irish Government and Irish nationalist opinion in Ulster, in the hope of winning their support against the IRA". However Thatcher perceived the results of this to be disappointing because "our concessions alienated the Unionists without gaining the level of security co-operation we had a right to expect. In the light of this experience it is surely time to consider an alternative approach". In 1998 Thatcher said she regretted signing the Agreement and said of Enoch Powell's opposition to the Agreement: "I now believe that his assessment was right".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/220053.stm

P.S. The devolved Government envisaged by the AIA never actually materialised... 

[Evil Genius]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

Well I guess it's always possible that in another half century or so, History will be revised so as to "honour" the likes of Gaughan and Stagg - after all, it's so much easier after everyone who was alive at the time of their deeds have themselves passed away.

But as one who is more concerned with living history, I take some reassurance from the fact that Garret got a State Funeral, whereas Stagg* and Gaughan didn't.


* - Unless you count 100 free Air Miles from Dublin to Shannon and 6 foot of State-funded concrete 

Aye that was so funny wasnt it.....

Funnier than bombing Coventry, I'd say.

Still, when Stagg and his fellow Volunteers conspired to bomb that city, they were only following a long and proud Republican tradition:

"Nine days before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 August 1939, Coventry was the scene of an early mainland bicycle bomb attack by the IRA. At 2:30 in the afternoon, a bomb exploded inside the carrier basket of a tradesman's bicycle that had been left outside a shop in Broadgate. The explosion killed five people, injured 100 more and caused extensive damage to shops in the area. The victims were John Corbett Arnott (15), Elsie Ansell (21), Rex Gentle (30), Gwilym Rowlands (50) and James Clay (82). Two IRA members and three others were put on trial for murder of one of the victims (Elsie Ansell). Three were acquitted and two convicted who were hanged in February 1940, although the identity of the man who rode the bicycle to Broadgate and planted the bomb was never discovered. The bomb plotters had been operating out of a house at 25 Clara Street."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Coventry

[Nally Stand]

For his next trick he's going to claim that the fallen patriots of 1916 have all been forgotten even though his own Queen paid her respects to them a few days ago.

Well I guess it's always possible that in another half century or so, History will be revised so as to "honour" the likes of Gaughan and Stagg - after all, it's so much easier after everyone who was alive at the time of their deeds have themselves passed away.

But as one who is more concerned with living history, I take some reassurance from the fact that Garret got a State Funeral, whereas Stagg* and Gaughan didn't.


* - Unless you count 100 free Air Miles from Dublin to Shannon and 6 foot of State-funded concrete 

Aye that was so funny wasnt it.....

Funnier than bombing Coventry, I'd say.

Still, when Stagg and his fellow Volunteers conspired to bomb that city, they were only following a long and proud Republican tradition:

"Nine days before the outbreak of World War II, on 25 August 1939, Coventry was the scene of an early mainland bicycle bomb attack by the IRA. At 2:30 in the afternoon, a bomb exploded inside the carrier basket of a tradesman's bicycle that had been left outside a shop in Broadgate. The explosion killed five people, injured 100 more and caused extensive damage to shops in the area. The victims were John Corbett Arnott (15), Elsie Ansell (21), Rex Gentle (30), Gwilym Rowlands (50) and James Clay (82). Two IRA members and three others were put on trial for murder of one of the victims (Elsie Ansell). Three were acquitted and two convicted who were hanged in February 1940, although the identity of the man who rode the bicycle to Broadgate and planted the bomb was never discovered. The bomb plotters had been operating out of a house at 25 Clara Street."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Coventry

Stagg wasn't charged with any bombing. He was charged with conspiracy to commit arson, and as The Bobby Sands Trust mentions, "There was little or no evidence to connect him with the charge. He was convicted under the notorious British Conspiracy Laws, brought in during the latter half of the 19th century to imprison Irish political activists without a fair trial."

Every so often you drop your mask of the mature, moral high-grounder, forward thinking Unionist, EG. Stagg's body was hijacked by the state and buried under six foot of concrete to ensure he wouldn't be buried where he stated he wanted to be buried, and you say he deserved it because of something which happened in 1939? And you find he state's treatment of his remains funny?

Don't know why I'm even bothering to reply to a cretin like you.

[Rossfan]

Stagg's body was hijacked by the state and buried under six foot of concrete to ensure he wouldn't be buried where he stated he wanted to be buried,

The Cosgrave Government put a Garda on permanent watch to ensure Republicans wouldnt move the body to beside Michael Gaughan. (Pity they werent as active in seeking the guilty for the Dublin/Monaghan mass murders. )
The Garda was removed following the change of Govt. and the remains were subsequently re interred beside M.G. if I recall correctly.

[Nally Stand]

Stagg's body was hijacked by the state and buried under six foot of concrete to ensure he wouldn't be buried where he stated he wanted to be buried,

The Cosgrave Government put a Garda on permanent watch to ensure Republicans wouldnt move the body to beside Michael Gaughan. (Pity they werent as active in seeking the guilty for the Dublin/Monaghan mass murders. )
The Garda was removed following the change of Govt. and the remains were subsequently re interred beside M.G. if I recall correctly.

Six months they spent watching the grave, day and night, to ensure Stagg would not be buried where he wanted to be buried. Joe Cahill made a pledge that his body would be moved when the chance arose... which was a promise kept.