Messages

It will be interesting to see if Mattie does play at 6. He could add real solidity there potentially if he is back to himself.

[those who are so against trans rights]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.

And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.

If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?

I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.

It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...

Yet you put a long post in place prior to that.

How does that undermine my argument?

I'm arguing this whole debate has essentially been concocted and I'm trying to illustrate that. I have empathy for this tiny, most vulnerable minority of society who are mercilessly being demonised and targeted. Yes, there are issues, like anything, and like anything, they should be worked through carefully by professionals and those affected, not by angry and unreasonable people on twitter.

Society in general should be focusing its energy on the actual pressing issues, that affect everyone, like housing, health, climate change, changing demographics, the erosion of social cohesion, and so many other issues which should take priority.

I'd be interested in why you care about this issue personally, how it affects you or yours, and why it takes priority over any of the above issues for you?

[those who are so against trans rights]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

You're not posing a proper counter to my statement. Read what both have stated re trans rights then come back here.
Equating both with those types who riot and plunder supposedly in the name of white Irish nativism is thoroughly disingenuous.

I've long since tried to avoid them. They both clearly have issues and have gone very much down the deep end. A quick cursory glance at Linehan's wikipedia tells me that he has variously harrassed trans people, set up fake profiles to pose as trans people, described people who support trans rights as 'groomers', tried to smear several people with false associations. These are not the actions of someone who is acting reasonably, and especially so given how his life has imploded.

And it's not disingenuous to make those comparisons. Like those other people it's disingenuous on their part to claim they are concerned about trans people. There's also strong cross over in Ireland between all these groups.

If you take a very generous interpretation of their belief that trans people just have mental issues etc., how does constantly using such strong and loaded rhetoric help. How does dehumanising, insulting and invalidating trans people help trans people?

I haven't seen any stats which show a rising trend of violence by trans people. But I do know that trans people are much more likely to suffer violence and violence against trans people has been increasing.

It's mind boggling that there's so many very real and pressing issues facing Ireland and the world and so many have been deliberately distracted by the right wing with such a micro issue that affects almost no-one...

Rowling is a woman and a victim of domestic abuse. Of course she has a connection when her rights and those of her fellow women are being infringed upon.

Rowling was not abused by a trans person. What rights of Rowling's are being infringed upon?

[those who are so against trans rights]

trans women should not compete in women's sports is not a denial of their rights. The argument against it is backed by numerous credible sports scientists, e.g. Ross Tucker. Introducing "trans women are big and yes that might hurt someone playing rugby, but the numbers are so small it's irrelevant therefore it doesn't matter" into the discussion is a red herring. The issue is the principle and integrity of women's sport as a protected category.

Again, I'm not denying these aren't issues, but they should be worked through, the anti trans obsessives like to find these issues and make them out to something much bigger, and plenty of incidents where whole narratives and stories have been completely invented. I've seen them targeting casual park runs over trans women being recorded as women and another headline about a trans woman who finished thousands of places behind others in a marathon. I can't say I see any discussion of women's sports on here in general. Again, it's quite noteworthy how people take an issue with this issue in women's sports, but never seem to comment or show an interest in it otherwise.

The IRFU taking a very public decision to ban two trans players from playing amateur rugby is not productive imo. It wouldn't be difficult to have a set of clear guidelines. What they did sent a terrible message.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak.

Not even Graham Lenihan or J.K. Rowling are against 'trans rights' per se.

Both of them are obessives. They have no personal connection to the issue, nor are they experts in the field. Lenihan, especially, he has ruined his career and marriage over this issue. Look at the types of people who are involved in the anti-trans movement Ireland and worldwide, which include literal nazis.

It strikes me as quite similar to the right wingers who are pro-life, who don't care about the social conditions a child is born into, or the anti-Immigration crowd who are supposedly concerned about safety and housing, but will riot and light accommodation on fire and some with convictions for violence against women. People are concerned about people 'becoming' trans, but as soon as they do, they'll completely dehumanise them.

Any news on availability for the weekend?

It was heartening to read some actual experiences and empathy.

I do find it odd that those who are so against trans rights have no personal experiences or skin in the game so as to speak. There certainly are issues that need to be worked through, but so many of the so called issues are concocted / over egged.

There's all this stuff about biological males in women spaces being a danger etc. Most trans people use non-gendered/disabled toilets afaik due to being self conscious and the same crowd oppose that too with bad faith arguments about cost  when it just means adding a sign to a disabled toilet.
There's also literally nothing stopping men from entering women's toilets. Someone who wants to sexually assault women or worse doesn't need to become trans to do that. The danger women most face are from men in general and especially those they know.

There's reasonable ways to sort out most of these issues sensitively, but the witch hunt against trans people isn't the way to deal with them. The IRFU banned all trans females from playing women's rugby, which affected all of two people as far as I know. That sends a terrible message to trans people. Size difference is an issue and that should be applied across all grades. Having a set of guidelines, for trans women and for children etc. (as is done in NZ) would have been the sensible thing to do, rather than bowing to a mob.

I'm not trans and it's not something I can relate to, but I am perturbed by how such a large group of people seem obsessed with the issue, which is whipping up terrible hate against a tiny minority of society who are some of the most vulnerable people. And seriously, our country and world has much more pressing issues and inequalities which affects everyone and not just a percentage of a percent .

Sexuality, gender and so much else about humans varies wildly. Just look across the world, now and historically.

Has anyone here had any personal experiences with trans people and has anyone, or someone they know, been personally affected by any of these issues being raised here?

This discussion is just as empathetic and open minded as I expected it to be...

I don't know the demographics of the public sector, but I would assume it would be older. It could be managed by having a hiring freeze for the transition (in both jurisdictions potentially), incentivise early retirement and voluntary redundancies and encouraging more to go part time.

It is also worth noting that FG passed a motion to establish a New Ireland Forum to set out a vision for the constitutional future of the island based on 'reconciliation, prosperity and equality'.

There's definitely a continuing trajectory. You only have to look at the people who are doing research and advocating for a UI, they come from a quite broad spectrum of Irish life. The fact that there's so many continually claiming that it won't happen and whole studies and books on the subject by people who oppose it is a good indicator too (Malachi O'Doherty get a dishonourable mention).

Much more needs to be done now. We need to avoid a shotgun process and poll at all costs. Doing the work now, with less tension and expectation would be prudent, regardless of the result.

I think the public is not well informed on the current differences north and south and on the various issues and opportunities with a UI. I don't think the public in the south are aware how advanced things and aren't paying attention as of yet.

Polling isn't showing majority support for a UI which nobody knows what it looks like. But neither is there a majority (mostly) for the union. Polling does show a clear majority of people aspire to / favour a United Ireland. To me, it seems, that makes it imperative that the Irish government needs to start actively planning and advocating for a UI.

This wont stop the dup from saying they are good chrisitian people

They are full of hypocrites. Whatever you think about the troubles, no side is without blame. I think SF at least recognise that and recognise that there's subjectivity. The DUP didn't/won't concede anything, as if any inequality was either imagined or deserved by CNR. 

The DUP go on about the PIRA and terrorism as if they are principled pacifists, yet will ignore or defend Bloody Sunday, the RUC, UDR, British army etc. established misdeeds, collusion and corruption. They conveniently forget that they were involved with setting up their own paramilitary organisation too and their cosy relationships with other paramilitaries. Likewise they'll bring up Michelle O'Neill's father and ignore ELP's father.

I think, regrettably, the way forward is to agree to disagree, but agree on a peaceful future. I think this is the road SF are going down (mainly as its in their interests and could help smooth the way for a UI).

I think this will leave the Donaldsonite wing vulnerable and the headbangers will smell blood. I don't think there will be a clear winner and there'll be another period of crisis, which will be compounded by opinion polling, and election results etc..

The deal now is tainted even though it's quite a separate thing to Donaldson's behaviour, but it's very much his deal. ELP is his appointee so she is weak, especially having been co-opted.

I'd assume they'll lose some votes to TUV and UUP and even more just won't be motivated to vote. So you'll see a fractured and reduced unionist vote and a more motivated Nationalist/Other vote. The DUP were just above the water line in the last LEA, so depending on how things go before then, unionism could lose a lot of MLAs. You'd have to expect them to lose at least one MP, maybe three. If Robinson was leader and lost his, that would be a big blow.

I'd sort of been thankful and optimistic to see the DUP moving in a more reasonable/conciliatory direction and some sort of normal, but maybe unionism tearing itself apart might be better in the long run.

That said, you'd have expected most people (plenty of reasonable people vote for them) to have abandoned them by now over their spectacular failures and backwardness and they've somehow always managed to keep or win back support, so they could recover or maintain.

What exactly are people expecting from sports journalists?

Should only successful former players/managers be able to offer an opinion?

I for one can't wait to see every column filled by Pat Spillane lamenting the death of 'real football' every week and offering tactical insight of x team need to kick in high balls.

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