Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

[BennyCake]

Probably the view of 90% at this stage.

Due to financial doping, a flawed system (that allows fresh Dubs to play tired teams) home matches all the time, and ten times the population of other counties to choose from.

Time for other 31 counties to man up to Gaa and tell them its time to tame the beast that they have created.

Dublin are the best team ever, and play within the rules. My problem isnt with them, its with the flawed system. The Tailtean Cup will be a much more interesting and fair competition.

Will it though?

I doubt many people will be interested. How many were interested in the Murphy cup? Can anyone name the teams that won the competition?

[Rossfan]

Benny how about a NY resolution to stop knocking the Tailteann Cup?

[BennyCake]

Benny how about a NY resolution to stop knocking the Tailteann Cup?

I'm not knocking it, I'm being realistic.

[seafoid]

Probably the view of 90% at this stage.

Due to financial doping, a flawed system (that allows fresh Dubs to play tired teams) home matches all the time, and ten times the population of other counties to choose from.

Time for other 31 counties to man up to Gaa and tell them its time to tame the beast that they have created.

Dublin are the best team ever, and play within the rules. My problem isnt with them, its with the flawed system. The Tailtean Cup will be a much more interesting and fair competition.

Will it though?

I doubt many people will be interested. How many were interested in the Murphy cup? Can anyone name the teams that won the competition?

Back then the all Ireland was genuinely interesting.
Now it isn't.

[Cunny Funt]

Probably the view of 90% at this stage.

Due to financial doping, a flawed system (that allows fresh Dubs to play tired teams) home matches all the time, and ten times the population of other counties to choose from.

Time for other 31 counties to man up to Gaa and tell them its time to tame the beast that they have created.

Dublin are the best team ever, and play within the rules. My problem isnt with them, its with the flawed system. The Tailtean Cup will be a much more interesting and fair competition.

Will it though?

I doubt many people will be interested. How many were interested in the Murphy cup? Can anyone name the teams that won the competition?

Back then the all Ireland was genuinely interesting.
Now it isn't.

I'll take Fermanagh for example. What would interest their players, management and supporters the most?

A run in Ulster championship whereby they reach an Ulster final like a few years ago or reaching Tailteann Cup final?

[Halfquarter]

Non Dublin games are interesting because there's a doubt about the outcome or a chance of a surprise.
Dublin games including the AI Final are foregone conclusions

There was very little discussion of the elephant in the room after the aif. In the Sindo Colm O'Rourke and Brolly treated it as a normal match. Same in the Irish Times and on TSG/RTE

There was far more criticism after the semi and the Leinster Final.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1330254398535176204

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1335712179580973063⁰0

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/1122/1179771-orourke-meath-humiliation-bad-reflection-on-leinster/

Maybe if Meath were being ritually humiliated in the AIF he might be different.

I think that all of the journos behave because it's one of the marquee days in Irish sport and the biggest date in the GAA calendar, a day that drives a big chunk of GAA revenue, when hundreds of thousands of casual fans tune in as well as a massive advertisement for the GAA.

Nobody yet wants to say that the golden goose is no longer breathing. So the nonsense continues

The reference to Meath above is meaningless.

Meath haven't won an All-Ireland senior final since 1999 (the end of the last century), so it's unlikely that they would have been contenders this year no matter what sort of team Dublin might have at the moment. In addition, Dublin have won 30 All-Ireland championships to Meath's 7 which suggests that at any time during the history of the GAA Dublin would be more likely winners than Meath.

And if we look at the Leinster Championship and one-sided results, in 1955 Dublin beat Meath by 5-12 to 0-07 in the Leinster Final.

(Of course none of the above is in any way meant to be disrespectful to Meath - the home of my grandparents!)

Dublin have won 14 of the last 15 Leinsters AFAIK.
This never happened before.
Meath have 21 Leinsters to 2005 so approx 2 per decade
Meath would have won on average 3 under normal competitive conditions 05-20 , with no financial doping

Meath didn't win any Leinsters between 1895 and 1939. What does that prove? Anything you want I guess - take your pick.

All Irish people are human: therefore all humans are Irish*


*The Bluffers Guide to Logic

Apple have invented this thing called the mean. It's a very popular.
Mean reversion is going to be a laugh when it happens to Dublin.

I think you'll find that the Dubs play the Momentum Strategy.

The future is never linear

That's what I've always argued. The Thousand Year Reich will eventually meet a bump in the road and we'll wonder what all the fuss was about when someone wearing a different colour goes up to collect the Sam Maguire. He might even be wearing maroon.

1 year out of 10 Dublin might not win!? woohoo, that really is a mouth watering prospect

Have you also put up the white flag for Mayo? Is that the consensus in Mayo?

The consensus has been eloquently expressed here by many  people from different counties ........ very simply , we need a level playing field.

[6th sam]

Article in Irish news today, very interesting .
Down , a midrange county in football and hurling in terms of success, has the 4th largest population in Ireland , we receive the least amount of games development grant from Croke park , of all 32 counties. Logistics wise we have challenges as football training is based at southern extreme of the county and uniquely most of our hurlers have to get a ferry to train on a 100 x60 4g pitch. We were beaten by a point in the AI final of 2010, just before Dublin's decade of financial and playing dominance. Each year we have to negotiate our way past the likes of Donegal Monaghan Tyrone Armagh mostly away from home. How on earth can we expect to match the Dublin giant?
I cheered Dublin in 2011 v Kerry , have Dublin family , so I definitely am not anti-Dublin. In 2011 little did I suspect that the GAA had created a monster.
I plead with Dublin  supporters on this thread to propose a fair solution to this farce rather than blindly defending the indefensible .

[dublin7]

Article in Irish news today, very interesting .
Down , a midrange county in football and hurling in terms of success, has the 4th largest population in Ireland , we receive the least amount of games development grant from Croke park , of all 32 counties. Logistics wise we have challenges as football training is based at southern extreme of the county and uniquely most of our hurlers have to get a ferry to train on a 100 x60 4g pitch. We were beaten by a point in the AI final of 2010, just before Dublin's decade of financial and playing dominance. Each year we have to negotiate our way past the likes of Donegal Monaghan Tyrone Armagh mostly away from home. How on earth can we expect to match the Dublin giant?
I cheered Dublin in 2011 v Kerry , little did I suspect that the GAA had created a monster.
I plead with Dublin  supporters on this thread to propose a fair solution to this farce rather than blindly defending the indefensible .

I don't think the dubs can be held responsible for down being in Ulster. I do think a a championship based on the provincial basis is inherently unfair and I agree this needs to be changed

[sid waddell]

Article in Irish news today, very interesting .
Down , a midrange county in football and hurling in terms of success, has the 4th largest population in Ireland , we receive the least amount of games development grant from Croke park , of all 32 counties. Logistics wise we have challenges as football training is based at southern extreme of the county and uniquely most of our hurlers have to get a ferry to train on a 100 x60 4g pitch. We were beaten by a point in the AI final of 2010, just before Dublin's decade of financial and playing dominance. Each year we have to negotiate our way past the likes of Donegal Monaghan Tyrone Armagh mostly away from home. How on earth can we expect to match the Dublin giant?
I cheered Dublin in 2011 v Kerry , have Dublin family , so I definitely am not anti-Dublin. In 2011 little did I suspect that the GAA had created a monster.
I plead with Dublin  supporters on this thread to propose a fair solution to this farce rather than blindly defending the indefensible .

I've proposed at least four solutions

i) No Dublin matches in Croke Park outside of League finals, Leinster finals, All-Ireland semis/finals - and potentially you could look at taking even some of those out of Croke Park
ii) Reduction back to three subs per game
iii) Sponsorship redistribution, ie. each county keeps 50% of sponsorship money, 50% to a central pool to be divided equally per county, the details would have to be worked out but that's the principle
iv) Revamp the league to a Division 1A, 1B, 2A 2B format as per most of the 2000s - this gives a more even spread of competition for each county

Retaining centralised mileage payments should help as well

The rest really is up to counties themselves

[sid waddell]

Benny how about a NY resolution to stop knocking the Tailteann Cup?

Rugby already has such a rule for the Pro14, it doesn't work

[sid waddell]

Probably the view of 90% at this stage.

Due to financial doping, a flawed system (that allows fresh Dubs to play tired teams) home matches all the time, and ten times the population of other counties to choose from.

Time for other 31 counties to man up to Gaa and tell them its time to tame the beast that they have created.

Dublin are the best team ever, and play within the rules. My problem isnt with them, its with the flawed system. The Tailtean Cup will be a much more interesting and fair competition.

Will it though?

I doubt many people will be interested. How many were interested in the Murphy cup? Can anyone name the teams that won the competition?

Sure most of the players themselves weren't even interested, the basic rule about the Tommy Murphy Cup was that if you wanted to win it, you'd probably win it, because nobody else cared whether they won it

[sid waddell]

I couldn't help thinking of Con Houlihan's grandfather's spade as I see how effortlessly Dublin can effortlessly shunt great players whose sell by date is approaching and replace them with youngsters who can hit the ground running.
This is the one aspect of Dublin's run of success that sets them apart from Kerry, Kilkenny hurlers or any other team that stood out in their times - all of them were eventually hauled in as they didn't have ready made players of equal stature waiting in the wings when the likes of Shefflin and Sheehy had to call it a day.

Kilkenny did the exact same thing Dublin have done since 2011 - they had two starters in 2009 from their first All-Ireland in 2000

Look at the all time greats of the game they brought through most years

Shefflin had been there since '99
Brennan was a sub in 2000
Delaney in 2001?
Walsh in 2003
Brian Hogan in 2004
Larkin in 2005
Tyrrell in 2005/06
Power around 05/06 as well
Reid in '08 as a sub but he didn't properly establish himself for a few years
Richie Hogan in '09
Michael Fennelly was captain in '09 but only a sub so it was 2010 before he properly established himself

That's very similar to what Dublin have done with:
Ciaran Kilkenny '12
McCaffrey '13
Mannion '13
Cooper '13
Fenton '15
Small '16
O'Callaghan '17
Howard '18

Dublin now have a bigger group of impending departures than Kilkenny did in '09 - Cluxton, MDMA, McMahon, O'Sullivan, McManamon, Andrews

Fitzsimons is 31
James McCarthy is 31 soon
Jonny Cooper is 31
Dean Rock is 31
Even the Fenton/McCaffrey/Small/Mannion/Ciaran Kilkenny generation were all born in '93 - Fenton will be 28 in March which is hard to believe - so they are no longer young and they are not going to get better

Things don't stay the same for long

Kilkenny kept things going for a good few years after '09 but they were always waning ever so slightly and that waning became very apparent in '13, even though they came back for two more All-Irelands afterwards

The quality of the players they were bringing through declined, how could it not - I wonder will the same happen with Dublin, I expect it will, or at least the furious dedication will wane to some extent

[Dinny Breen]

Article in Irish news today, very interesting .
Down , a midrange county in football and hurling in terms of success, has the 4th largest population in Ireland , we receive the least amount of games development grant from Croke park , of all 32 counties. Logistics wise we have challenges as football training is based at southern extreme of the county and uniquely most of our hurlers have to get a ferry to train on a 100 x60 4g pitch. We were beaten by a point in the AI final of 2010, just before Dublin's decade of financial and playing dominance. Each year we have to negotiate our way past the likes of Donegal Monaghan Tyrone Armagh mostly away from home. How on earth can we expect to match the Dublin giant?
I cheered Dublin in 2011 v Kerry , have Dublin family , so I definitely am not anti-Dublin. In 2011 little did I suspect that the GAA had created a monster.
I plead with Dublin  supporters on this thread to propose a fair solution to this farce rather than blindly defending the indefensible .

I've proposed at least four solutions

i) No Dublin matches in Croke Park outside of League finals, Leinster finals, All-Ireland semis/finals - and potentially you could look at taking even some of those out of Croke Park
ii) Reduction back to three subs per game
iii) Sponsorship redistribution, ie. each county keeps 50% of sponsorship money, 50% to a central pool to be divided equally per county, the details would have to be worked out but that's the principle
iv) Revamp the league to a Division 1A, 1B, 2A 2B format as per most of the 2000s - this gives a more even spread of competition for each county

Retaining centralised mileage payments should help as well

The rest really is up to counties themselves

Impressive. This is like Brevity. We are finding a middle ground.

[sid waddell]

Kilkenny phased out a load of great or very good players through the 2000s

DJ
Charlie Carter
Willie O'Connor
Brian McEvoy
Peter Barry
John Power
Denis Byrne
Andy Comerford
John Hoyne
Philip Larkin
Cha Fitzpatrick

Pretty similar to what Dublin have done with:
Flynn
Brogan x 2
Connolly
Bastick
O'Gara
Barry Cahill
Kevin Nolan
Ger Brennan
Bryan Cullen
Rory O'Carroll

Kilkenny brought in some very good players post-2009:
TJ Reid really only established himself after 2009
Same with Richie Hogan
Paul Murphy
Cillian Buckley
Walter Walsh
Colin Fennelly
Padraig Walsh
Kieran Joyce
Conor Fogarty

But good as they were, the whole package was always waning because the players that were leaving were true all time greats and most of the new players weren't quite at that level

In six years' time, how many of the current main men for Dublin will still be there

Probably only Howard and Con

Lads who are good but not as good will likely replace the current main men

[imtommygunn]

I don't understand the point of the list of names there. Kilkenny had players who needed replaced. Dublin had players who needed replaced. What does that show? If you'd listed one all time great being replaced by another fair enough but they're just lists of players who played and then needed to be replaced because they stopped? Some of those Dublin players weren't even starters most of the time. I'm not even sure Byrne or Horne always started for Kilkenny?

The pertinent Dublin ones who have been replaced are to me Flynn, two brogans, Connolly and arguably o' Carroll who was a very good full back. (Actually a guy who Dublin based a lot on was O'Sullivan at chb so him too). There is five boys who would grace any team in any era and a boy who you base your defense round replaced seamlessly.

To be fair hogan and Reid replaced top quality with top quality but the likes of Walsh etc just not the same level. To me they replaced DJ with henry(slight overlap) and Henry with tj (again slight overlap).

That is not to forget the Cody factor. The thing that stands out to me as well on Dublin is that I don't think anyone will ever credit Jim gavin with how good he really was because of this dominance. For all the talk of money etc it had to gel together and he made that happen and created a setup which doesn't look it will be undone for a very long time.

(So Dublin had to get their house in order and did very much so but really aren't the same as KK at all imo)