Mayo v Dublin: AISF21 (Saturday 14th August)

[imtommygunn]

If there is a witch hunt here for some players.

Also Aiden O Shea should receive a 8 weeks suspension for entering the pitch of play. If you recall this similar incident:

https://www.the42.ie/darren-hughes-monaghan-ban-4690277-Jun2019/

If this is the game we are playing now looking for bans then, Personally, I don't think he should miss the final, but those are the rules what...

I actually agree with this. He shouldn't have been on the pitch and the fact that he just stayed there was a bit ridiculous.

Small should have went. It was wreckless. He hardly meant to do what he did in the end but it was a red. I only actually saw it on the highlights last night. If Dublin had scored that goal  It actually wasn't terrible reffing to miss it in real time because it was that quick you could see why it was missed but it was terrible reffing to not stop the game.

[dublin7]

I can see why Lane missed it, I thought it was a good hit on live viewing during the match, there is no VAR/TMO so we cant check except with his linesman so he cant guess if he should give a card or not for something that seemed to look ok to him at the time, but he ABSOLUTLEY should have blown his whistle when he saw the aftermath of the hit. Himself and Deegan the king clown himself can have no excuses for that.

Most Dubs fans appear to be premiership fans first and foremost and inhabit that world of  "my team always right, your team always wrong" the predicates that cesspit. So the one eyedness doesn't surprise me. Small f*cked up what he was trying to do with devastating consequences for Eoghan McLoughlin, up to the GAA to decide if he should be sanctioned for that or not but the referee has to stop play to check on the player after that hit.

Never liked the Premiership to be honest. Numerous incidents in the game , numerous incidents in Mayo Dublin games over the last few years. . .

Nobody will change my mind on the Small shoulder, if anything, at worse, it was a free for Mayo..

Small's shoulder looked alright in real time, but if he gets a one match ban for it retrospectively then fair enough. Looking at all the crying and whinging over the tackle and what's turning into a witch hunt for John Small has turned this into a farce and completely over the top.

The Mayo lad was there to be shouldered when he got the ball and if that was a player on your team who didn't take the chance to shoulder him then you'd be giving out to him.

[tonto1888]

If there is a witch hunt here for some players.

Also Aiden O Shea should receive a 8 weeks suspension for entering the pitch of play. If you recall this similar incident:

https://www.the42.ie/darren-hughes-monaghan-ban-4690277-Jun2019/

If this is the game we are playing now looking for bans then, Personally, I don't think he should miss the final, but those are the rules what...

I actually agree with this. He shouldn't have been on the pitch and the fact that he just stayed there was a bit ridiculous.

Small should have went. It was wreckless. He hardly meant to do what he did in the end but it was a red. I only actually saw it on the highlights last night. If Dublin had scored that goal  It actually wasn't terrible reffing to miss it in real time because it was that quick you could see why it was missed but it was terrible reffing to not stop the game.

I agree with this. I'm really time I thought it was a good hard, but fair hit. Definitely should have stopped the game though.

[Stall the Bailer]

Not a fan of the 'hit' in football or hurling on someone whose body is in any way 'open'.  But it's nearly expected at this stage . The difference of a couple of inches makes it look bad but I'm sure there was no intent to strike the head.

I 100% agree.

The Dublin club one referenced above I thought was a horrible watch.  And I'm sure everyone has seen similar where a player receives the aptly named hospital pass, and is wide open to a 'fair shoulder' to wipe him out. And if the opposing player doesn't take that opportunity, he'll be berated by his teammates and supporters. It's part of the game and big physical hits can be a great watch, but there should be something in the rules about care for the opponent, in particular in relation to contact with the head. No doubt it's a bit odd that rugby rules provide for this, but GAA rules don't, given how much more physical their game is with their continuous monster hits.

Re the Small one, if you slow the action down frame by frame, you'll see that the first contact shoulder to shoulder. Eoghan's body is slightly turning as he's hit, and it immediately starts to crumple. John's knees are bent slightly, the way people are taught to give the 'fair shoulder', so then his shoulder rises to contact perfectly with Eoghan's head. Horrendous outcome and I wish him all the very best for his recovery.

Even James Horan said afterwards that he wasn't sure it was a foul, but was very upset that the play wasn't stopped immediately as the player was clearly in a bad way.

It has to be side by side not shoulder to shoulder. Small hit with shoulder but contact was never going to be side by side.
Only a split second for Small to decide if a shoulder tackle was on and when you commit it needs to be safe. I feel it was never on due the angle he was running at.

[Keyser soze]

I don't see anything wrong with this tackle. Shoulder to shoulder as far as I can see. How anyone can see a high tackle or frontal shoulder in this is beyond me. Not even a free let alone a bookable offence. Game should have been stopped though.

[Keyser soze]

He wasn't ready to ship a tackle and was hit shoulder to shoulder just as he turned, unfortunate for him and terrible he was injured and will miss the final which nobody wants to see, but if tackles like that are punished by a red card the game will become non contact.

[whitey]

He wasn't ready to ship a tackle and was hit shoulder to shoulder just as he turned, unfortunate for him and terrible he was injured and will miss the final which nobody wants to see, but if tackles like that are punished by a red card the game will become non contact.

Sounds like the immaculate conception

Get hit shoulder to shoulder and break your jaw

Biggest miracle involving Mayo since the one in Knock in 1879

[yellowcard]

It's sad the way how the analysis and focus on this match now seems to be centred so much on one single incident where plenty of the arguments are just full of agendas and tribalism.

[mrdeeds]

People keep saying fair shoulder is nonsense. The word shoulder doesn't appear in rules anymore.

[RedHand88]

He wasn't ready to ship a tackle and was hit shoulder to shoulder just as he turned, unfortunate for him and terrible he was injured and will miss the final which nobody wants to see, but if tackles like that are punished by a red card the game will become non contact.

Never ever ever let this man near a whistle.

[Armamike]

The tackle wasn't shoulder to shoulder. If it was then the Mayo player would have badly winded at worst.   Whether it was deliberate, only Small can answer that one.  But it was extremely reckless given the standing position the Mayo player was in. 

[6th sam]

Players have a duty not to jeopardise safety of opponent, but it was presumably a genuine attempt at shoulder to shoulder . The consequences of direct blow to the head by well conditioned adults at speed are so severe( in this case jaw fracture, and missing final ) that authorities need to try to eradicate it from the game and severely punish the offender. Players will then realise that if they are going to try to execute a tackle that is high risk , they could get red. If we therefore miss out on the small number of brilliant shoulder to shoulder hits we've seen over the years , so be it.
The ref could easily have missed this , as it's a difficult sport to referee. Split second decision, and as he thought it was a perfect shoulder (which others also thought) , he was keen to let play go on, and missed the fact that McLaughlin's fall indicated a serious head injury. He doesn't warrant the abuse
He has received for these split second decisions.
That said , Dublin play on/over the edge and seem to get away with it more than others.  Paddy Small's clenched swinging fist to the head, McCarthy's elbow,  and his attack to the head (black ) were all red card high risk offences . Some Dublin players let themselves down badly on Saturday , and though robust play is part and parcel of the game but Head injuries are dangerous and deliberate head strike or high risk tackles need to be heavily punished. McCarthy is a superb player and doesn't need this in his game , as it clearly distracted him from actually trying to win the game. They reminded me of ciarán whelan back in the day, great footballer , but got distracted by trying to be the the hard man, he was often not punished by the referee, but was punished by his lack of success in big games.

Regarding Aidan O'Shea, was the full time whistle not blown and as captain he was trying to avoid his players risking red?

Btw , fair play to Mayo. Want to see them
Finish the job now

[Baile Brigín 2]

Wonder if the gaa will take action against small. Actually I know the answer will be no but the ref missed a red card offence resulting in a player with a broken jaw.

That Dublin team has been getting away with cynical play for years. Bad enough about the funding, home venue every game etc but to add in favouritism from the ref no wonder they went unbeaten for years. Christ it took some serious fouling for the ref to give out a few cards when the game was almost over.

Last night reminded me of the Dubs in the bad old days of the Pillar era when the likes of Whelo would just bust some man straight from the the throw-in and get away with it.

Last time Dublin lost regularly. So was it always there?

Dubs lost their cool, then the plot, then the game

Apparently Kilkenny lost his shit in the dressing room. Called Dessie Farrell an imposter and fanny-pad and told him to fcuk off back to milking a living from the GPA. Gravy train heading south.

Certainly there are rumblings of discontent with Farrell across the board but I would wonder how you heard that.

[Applesisapples]

Agree with a few sentiments here. Definitely a red card but highly unlikely small went to do what he did. Small goes for big hits and takes chances with them. Remember his photo of the hit on keaney in the club? Red card all day long and definitely a bit on the wreckless side but highly unlikely he meant it.

Rugby has outlawed these types of challenges and they put the onus squarely on the player to tackle safely. In other words if there is a risk that you mistime a tackle then you have to accept the consequences if it is wrong. No room for lack of intent. Conor Lane was poor for both teams throughout, but it has to be said in this day and age with 4 umpires, 2 linesmen and a fourth official that is not acceptable. Lane was close by as was Deegan and play should have been halted.There was so much being said rightly around the Tyrone Covid out break regarding player safety, yet we can not make the game safe on the field. I do not think for one minute that Small intended to injure McLaughlin but he did not have to consider the outcome of his actions and that is a failure of the rule makers.The modern player in both hurling and football as with rugby is so strong and well conditioned in general they can dish out these hits, but at a basic level the human body is not built to take high impact collisions.

[twohands!!!]

Agree with a few sentiments here. Definitely a red card but highly unlikely small went to do what he did. Small goes for big hits and takes chances with them. Remember his photo of the hit on keaney in the club? Red card all day long and definitely a bit on the wreckless side but highly unlikely he meant it.

Rugby has outlawed these types of challenges and they put the onus squarely on the player to tackle safely. In other words if there is a risk that you mistime a tackle then you have to accept the consequences if it is wrong. No room for lack of intent. Conor Lane was poor for both teams throughout, but it has to be said in this day and age with 4 umpires, 2 linesmen and a fourth official that is not acceptable. Lane was close by as was Deegan and play should have been halted.There was so much being said rightly around the Tyrone Covid out break regarding player safety, yet we can not make the game safe on the field. I do not think for one minute that Small intended to injure McLaughlin but he did not have to consider the outcome of his actions and that is a failure of the rule makers.The modern player in both hurling and football as with rugby is so strong and well conditioned in general they can dish out these hits, but at a basic level the human body is not built to take high impact collisions.

By rights the standing rules committee should bring in specific rules on player safety and having a duty of care to your opponent.

As a thought experiment - would the game of football be massively damaged if the shoulder charge was made completely illegal?
Is it worth having the rule in the game when you have outcomes like McLaughlin suffered?
Even in terms of coaching I think coaches would nearly be better off instructing players not to attempt a shoulder, given that such a high number of them end up in fouls against and yellow cards.
Personally I think that if you made the shoulder completely illegal, in about a year or two no-one would notice.