Congress

[Rossfan]

Leitrim 1990 to 1995 was one of their best teams, probably only 2nd to a v good team they had in the 50s.
Yet they lost to Ros in Championship 4 years in a row but took the 94 Connacht (beating all the big 3) so they didn't suddenly "break through".
Crucially they won an AI 'B" Title around 90 or 91 which got them started.
By the way the Tailteann Cup is in next year no matter what.

[blewuporstuffed]

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1450109412463497223

Michael Reynolds, Leinster GAA Secretary showing what he thinks of the players views here.

That's such a depressing interview. Players should shut up and realize people like him and others on the provincial councils know better than they do. Scary thing is alot of the people on the provincial councils probably agree with him

Whatever your views on the proposals , that is a car crash of an interview.
Personally I think the structures badly need to be reformed, I'm just not sure proposal B is the answer

[Hound]

I think not rewarding 6th place in D1 a place in the AI yet rewarding 3rd place in D3 a place in the AI and winners of D3 and D4 as a joke. Top tier teams could quite easily linger around 3rd spot in D2 for years

You're picking the very worst hypothetical and making a meal of it.

There's no system without downsides. As a Dub it's easy for me to say that there should be completely separate B and C championships like every county has for their clubs (inter and junior). And the only way you get into the top echelon is to win Inter (or Tailteann or whatever you want to call it), and that would make winning such a championship a massive achievement with a massive reward (like every inter championship in every county). However, managers, players and fans in the weaker counties don't want that, and they are the important voice, but they do want to play more competitive games.

Proposal B offers this.

Yes, there is the argument that having the Top 8 play 7 championship games against each other will only improve them further. But one of the real benefits on the new system is that it allows reward for Div 2, Div 3 and Div 4.

Is it easier to come 3rd in Div 2 or win Div 3/4 compared to coming 6th in Division 1? Yes. But so what.
I think it beggars belief that people are so concerned about the poor lads who came 6th in D1 and miss out on the knockout stages.
They've had 7 games at top championship level and they've failed to make the top 5. Their last couple of games will have been real do or die affairs. In the vast majority of years their last game will effectively be a knockout game, i.e. lose and you're out.

So in summary they deserve to be out after 7 games and a heap of losses. Allowing an extra team qualify will just devalue the league stages. This seems to be on the cards for change, but it would be a mistake and a case of people not thinking through the consequences.

As for deliberately trying to come 3rd in D2 each year? Very difficult to do in practice and the benefit and prestige of playing in D1 should ensure fair play anyway.

[Eire90]

If there  in division 2 they would have to win more games then play a top  4 team in quarter final (if qfs are seeded) so its not an easier route to all ireland really.

[Eire90]

i look at it like this division 1 is like the premier league so based on league rankings they get more teams in the champions league than weaker nations say like the league  of ireland  division 1 is the premier league division 2 is like  Portugal division 3 and 4 are like league of ireland and some league like  albania

[Eire90]

is teams in division 1 are they not suppose to be  quality team so its up to them to win.

[Eire90]

it would also hurt your attendance figures if you get relegated on purpose maybe

[thewobbler]

Any manager who even considers a plan of "let's get relegated from D1 this year, so we can spend next year playing lower level teams, and then reach peak levels again for a proper tilt at the All Ireland from the knockout stages", well they're clearly nuts and will never achieve the end goals. Ever.

——

People's concerns with some teams being knocked out of a knock out competition, are curious. I'd really hate to see the formulae they might devise for when it is both sensible and fair for Kerry / Roscommon / Monaghan to exit a competition.

[Eire90]

Any manager who even considers a plan of "let's get relegated from D1 this year, so we can spend next year playing lower level teams, and then reach peak levels again for a proper tilt at the All Ireland from the knockout stages", well they're clearly nuts and will never achieve the end goals. Ever.

——

People's concerns with some teams being knocked out of a knock out competition, are curious. I'd really hate to see the formulae they might devise for when it is both sensible and fair for Kerry / Roscommon / Monaghan to exit a competition.

Its not even a easier route anyway they will have to  win league to get directly into quarter finals or a preliminary  2nd or 3rd and if they are relegated it means they are probably not that much better than some of the teams in division 2  and they will probably be unseeded in QF so they are getting relegated to get knockout in a QF probably when  they could fight to get a top 4 or 5 spot

[Kickham csc]

I think you're confused about what a breakthrough is.

"eg; Leitrim in the 90's, Antrim in the late 90's early 00's, Westmeath in the 00's, Carlow's recent run, Tipperary and Cavan's titles last year."

The commonality between these teams is that none of them made an AI final, and none of them kept it going for more than 2 years.

So what is it that they broke through? And what would the league-based system prevent them from doing?

I think you have an elitist view of what a breakthrough is. They had breakthrough years in the sense that they had good years in the provincial championships from a period of not being competitive. The energy and entertainment from watching your team go toe to toe with the big boys as massive underdogs was electrifying for supporters and the county, and greatly motivating for the players. An opportunity that will be removed with these proposals as the provincial championships will die a Railway cup death if they aren't linked to championship which will result in less experience for the weaker counties playing against the big boys.


If your playing Div 3-4 football, only one or two teams will move up in divisions every year. With teams being relegated from the division above. So you could easily have yo-yo teams getting relegated from Div 1 / Div 2 every year who get promoted the next year. This happens all the time at club level and has a high probability of happening in the inter county scene.  Would that encourage or discourage teams in the lower teams who know they are outsiders for promotion and have not marque championship game to target in the summer.

From a motivating point of view,
Whats the average league attendance for each division?
Whats the average TV coverage time for each division?
Whats the average monetary support from sponsors for each division?
What motivation will minors have if they never get to see their seniors compete against the best?

These proposals are elitist, and will only protect the stronger counties

Antrim v Leitrim / Carlow / Waterford will never generate the same interest as an Antrim v Derry / Tyrone / Down game

Last point. I take a pretty hard line view on teams getting hammered in championship. As Bill Parcells said, "You are what your record says you are". Instead of hiding from this by dressing up competitiveness in a new league / championship format, counties need to be taken to task if they are not supporting football development.

Why are Meath / Kildare/ Offaly not more competitive. Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone have all challenged Dublin in the past decade but fell short until this year. Why are the leinster counties more competitive. Kildare and Meath will have larger playing bases to pick from than Tyrone, why are they not more competitive?

Why are Waterford, Clare, Limerick allowed to get away with token support for the footballers in comparison to hurlers.

Why doesn't the GAA put in place requirements to play in the championship a commitment that all county's provide equal hurling and football support in regards to funding, resources etc?

Why doesn't the GAA set a maximum limit on spending on county teams, and if you go over that the county board will get finned with fine money getting distributed to weaker counties.

But no, lets set up a structure where the strong get stronger and weak weaker

[thewobbler]

Kickham, the problem with all of the above is that you would seem to be completely mental.

I mean let's be absolutely clear about something.

There are 32 counties in Ireland.
The bottom 17 counties in terms of population, together have a smaller population than Dublin.
The bottom 10 have less than the population of Antrim.
The biggest 5 counties have a bigger population than the other 27 combined.
Only 9 counties have above average population.

Yet you actually imagine that it's possible by an unequal distribution of finance to smaller counties and a series of rules that would drive members out of the association, and by convoluting the fixture calendar into an unholy mess, that these disparities can be resolved.

And anyone who disagrees with you looks like they're about to be portrayed as elitist.

The GAA is the most unequal of sporting  associations in the world, simply because it is segmented on county lines.

Everything else is a symptom, not a cause. To think otherwise is batshit crazy.

[Kickham csc]

Kickham, the problem with all of the above is that you would seem to be completely mental.

I mean let's be absolutely clear about something.

There are 32 counties in Ireland.
The bottom 17 counties in terms of population, together have a smaller population than Dublin.
The bottom 10 have less than the population of Antrim.
The biggest 5 counties have a bigger population than the other 27 combined.
Only 9 counties have above average population.

Yet you actually imagine that it's possible by an unequal distribution of finance to smaller counties and a series of rules that would drive members out of the association, and by convoluting the fixture calendar into an unholy mess, that these disparities can be resolved.

And anyone who disagrees with you looks like they're about to be portrayed as elitist.

The GAA is the most unequal of sporting  associations in the world, simply because it is segmented on county lines.

Everything else is a symptom, not a cause. To think otherwise is batshit crazy.

So lets be honest about the proposals and what they will establish. This will result in the cementing of a small number of counties to elite status.

Small / weaker counties will just have to focus on a secondary competition that will not generate any fanfare, unless you boot the minor final away from All Ireland final day and have the "A & B " final on the same day. But will that help the development of the games.

Lets also be clear, that one of the core foundations that drove the popularity of the GAA is over, the provincial championships. In time, we will lose the days out in Clones, the Derry - Tyrone, Armagh - Down, Armagh -Tyrone derby games will be lessened  and we will have one less meaningful competition to play for.

[Eire90]

Ulster GAA chief executive Brian McAvoy likens Proposal B to Brexit

[Eire90]

he called for making provincials round robin so what that not make them even more worse as there would be dead rubbers

[thewobbler]

I don't honestly see how an 8 team, 2-up, 2-down league system gives a control steer to the elite. They are only 3-4 poor games away from demotion, whilst a weaker team that has improved to division 2 is only a hot streak away from D1 status.

——

More is the point, that the current provincial / back door structure has furthered the gap between top and bottom more than at any time in history. One third of provinces have given up before the provincials start, and another third have no interest in the back door whatsoever. This plays out in how they approach the championship season. There is little hunger, limited desire to disrupt the inevitable.

Supporting that system while saying you've got the best interests of weaker counties at heart, takes some leap of imagination.