China Coronavirus

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line

Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum

[Tony Baloney]

Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line

Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum

Tell us about your analysis of the data and how it differs from that of the Israelis who previously were streets ahead in their vaccination programme and because of that are now seeing a drop off in the efficacy of the vaccines and are therefore advocating a top up booster.

If you light a fire of a winter evening do throw on another stick when the heat goes down or do you say "f**k it I'll let it go out".

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/23cdbf8c-b5ef-4596-bb46-f510606ab556

Israel hopes boosters can avert new lockdown as vaccine efficacy fades Earliest to vaccinate, Israel is the first to confront fading protection of Pfizer's jabs with third shot Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett receives a Covid booster shot on Friday © Jack Guez/AFP/Getty Share on twitter (opens new window) Share on facebook (opens new window) Share on linkedin (opens new window) Share Save Mehul Srivastava in Tel Aviv and John Burn-Murdoch in London AUGUST 23 2021 73 Print this page Be the first to know about every new Coronavirus story Get instant email alerts

After Israel raced ahead to vaccinate much of its population and reopened its economy in March, the Mediterranean nation became a lode star for the world. For five months Israelis enjoyed a taste of post-pandemic freedom, with jubilant, mask-free street parties and crowded restaurants. But now, with Israel's coronavirus infections soaring to highs last seen in February and the public braced for another potential lockdown, scientists are asking what has gone wrong in a country where 80 per cent of adults have been double jabbed. The answer, slowly taking shape in hotly contested data, is that the protection conferred by the BioNTech/Pfizer two-shot vaccine, which Israel has used almost exclusively, appears to fade over time faster than anticipated, increasing the risk of "breakthrough infections". This eventually leaves those inoculated first — generally the oldest and most vulnerable — at increasing risk of infection and severe illness. At the Sheba Medical Center, the largest in Israel, researchers identified the trend early. Monthly blood tests of medical staff, many of whom had been inoculated in December, started to show declining antibody levels and significant falls by June, said Arnon Afek, a top official at the hospital chain. Antibody levels can sometimes decline without having an impact on efficacy, but, at about the same time, Sheba hospitals began to note a rise in elderly, vaccinated people testing positive and seeking care. "It was quite alarming," said Afek. "Around six months, we realised that the level of antibodies in our staff were falling, and across Israel, there was an increase in the number of patients. And this was happening in parallel with the Delta variant." By August, according to the health ministry, studies showed the Pfizer vaccine's efficacy against infection falling to 39 per cent, and to as low as 16 per cent for people who got their second shots in January. Most worryingly, the vaccine's efficacy for the prevention of severe disease in the most vulnerable cohort — Israelis aged over 65, most of whom were double-jabbed by January — had dropped to 55 per cent, the ministry said. Immunologists and experts, both in Israel and outside, have questioned the precision of that data, which the Israeli government released quietly, and without any clarity on its methodology. Other international studies have also showed lower efficacy for the Pfizer vaccine against the Delta variant and waning immunity over time, but the estimated declines have generally been smaller.

An Oxford university study published on Thursday found that the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine against symptomatic infection almost halved after four months. Pfizer, which has worked closely with Israel during the pandemic and is pushing for the use of boosters globally, supported the government's assessment. "These latest data from Israel are consistent with the epidemiological trends we have been observing and reinforce the need for a booster dose to re-establish maximum protective efficacy," Pfizer said in response to questions. Eran Segal, an adviser to the Israeli government and a computational biologist, said the efficacy of the vaccine was clearly falling over time. "If it weren't for what seems to be a waning effect, we wouldn't be seeing such high numbers," he said. More concerning than the numbers testing positive was the number requiring hospitalisation. As Delta took over in the UK, the vaccination drive meant the proportion of coronavirus cases requiring hospitalisation fell by 70 per cent, the so-called decoupling between infection and hospitalisation. In Israel, where more of the elderly had been vaccinated earlier and Delta arrived later, that number only fell by 40 per cent, a trend that experts, including Segal, said showed the vaccine's protection against severe illness had started to wane over time.  Israel has the capacity to handle about 1,200 Covid patients with severe illness, and by mid-August, half of those hospital beds were full. Recommended Covid-19 vaccines Covid-19 vaccine tracker: the global race to vaccinate Speaking at a cabinet meeting on Sunday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said: "Paradoxically, the most vulnerable group right now are those who've been inoculated with two doses and [have yet to receive] the third. "The're going around with the sense they're protected — they don't understand the second dose erodes over time against the Delta strain." In an effort to avoid another national lockdown, Bennett announced an almost $800m plan to double hospital capacity to deal with the severely ill. On July 30 Israel also became the first country to give a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine as a booster.

"The decision should have been taken earlier, but it was still a very, very courageous decision," said Afek, who was previously the top civil servant at the health ministry. "At the time, the US Food and Drug Administration was saying a third shot was not necessary, so it took a lot of bravery to go ahead without the backing of the FDA." The FDA did not authorise third doses of the vaccine until August 13, and only for immunocompromised adults. Israel initially administered boosters to people over 60, then to those over 50 and, since Friday, to people over 40. Some of the early data on the impact of the booster shots looks promising. At Maccabi Health Service, a large healthcare provider, the vaccine's efficacy shot up to 86 per cent just seven days after the injection, said Anat Ekka Zohar, who ran a study of about 150,000 triple-jabbed people over 60, of whom only 37 people caught coronavirus in the first week after the booster. "The triple dose is the solution to curbing the current infection outbreak," she said. But Aaron Richterman, an infectious disease researcher at the University of Pennsylvania, cautioned that, although the immune system tends to respond quickly to booster vaccinations, it was too early to measure its impact. People who were "very early adopters" of boosters were likely to be different in terms of "occupation, risk aversion, healthcare-seeking behaviour" to those who chose not to seek a third shot, making comparisons difficult, he said. "Even the most careful analyses can remain biased if the populations being compared are very different," he added.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line

Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum

Tell us about your analysis of the data and how it differs from that of the Israelis who previously were streets ahead in their vaccination programme and because of that are now seeing a drop off in the efficacy of the vaccines and are therefore advocating a top up booster.

If you light a fire of a winter evening do throw on another stick when the heat goes down or do you say "f**k it I'll let it go out".

Are we back onto fire pits ? Is there a connection with sticks and booster now, Jesus I'm well behind

[Franko]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

[Armagh18]

Israel used the Pfizer jab and it was masks off in May  to general jubilation. Turns out Pfizers loses efficiency after 4 months. Antibodies were measured by a hospital and showed clear decreases.
Now Israel has been updated with a booster.

Boosters are probably the future.

Probably boosters are the future. But it does not follow that everyone will need a booster every 6 months. There are still multiple vaccines under development and some combination of these might give protection for years, with only older people and health care workers getting an annual booster. Even now, a third shot might just top things up enough to snsure that you don't need another one for a couple of years.

That's more where I'd like to see it go.

Look I was very much in 2 minds to begin with about any vaccination and was convinced to get it it was the correct decision for me at the time.

At the moment in not sold on boosters, but Ivr had to u turn before

When you see people who aren't vaccinated clogging up hospitals and in some cases dying, I just don't get why you would do everything you could to help prevent that including getting a booster dose if offered. Just seems a crazy position to take.

But absolutely nobody is saying boosters would stop that . Or am I missing something? We are asking people to be double jabbed, isn't that the official line

Do you understand boosters? If Covid immunity drops over time from the original vaccine then you require a top up. Hopefully one that might be amended to cover recent strains similar to the flu jabs. It's really simple, and I can't see what the issue is?

That's a big if, are we giving boosters ? Ive clearly missed the memo

You haven't read anything about immunity decreasing from the initial vaccines or seen any discussions about why we might be getting a booster?

Yes and as I said I'm not concvinced on current data I should take one .

I'm open minded on it. Thanks for your polite interaction, others on here don't realise it's a debate forum not a bullying and abuse forum

Hopefully it gets to the point were the elderly/vulnerable get a booster jab along with their yearly flu jab and the rest of us don't have to.

[clarshack]

Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

[RedHand88]

Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

Why would they? There is no cover up. Too many people are convinced the media/ government are out to get them.

[Gmac]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .

[Franko]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .

  Gmac knows the score.

[Gmac]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

he already had covid and is double jabbed , I think he will be ok .

  Gmac knows the score.

as we move forward through this the Vaccines are good but natural immunity is what will keep him safe .

[HiMucker]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits

You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,

Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

That vaccine passport will need updated, or it's no pub or bingo for you. It'll be  a never ending jab-athon from here on in

Hard de bate the fire pits

You and Anne McCloskey round the fire would be some craic

What is that supposed to mean? Where did I take anywhere a line close to her?
Is it because she was fired from Aontu ? People seem to forget on that point that she was a Shinner for much much longer ,

Just a light hearted joke, didnt mean to bully and abuse you.

Didn't say you did , now stop being a tube, it's not your form, and you need to brush up on your jokes

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Not sold on boosters, won't be getting it

Any particular reason why?

Had Covid and double vaxxed,but enough is enough , time to ride it out

So now you are "open minded" about it.

The bit in bold was your opinion an hour ago, which doesn't sound particularly open minded.

And stop with the poor me routine.

You're all over the place and huffing because you've been called on it.

Called out for what ? Having an opinion different from the groupthink masters.
I'm well able to defend myself but lads just piling in to throw abuse whilst not giving anything new to the debate except  the abuse itself  is piss poor.
I said on current info I'm not for boosters but if things change so might i. Amazingly this level of adaptability has helped me reach adulthood relatively intact

[BennyCake]

Surprised that the BBC have reported on this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

Why would they? There is no cover up. Too many people are convinced the media/ government are out to get them.

So you trust the governments (Irish, British or any) 100% then?