Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Snapchap]

Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

[twohands!!!]

I don't think the GAA are being honest with themselves about the funding issue. I suppose they don't have much of a choice but to completely brass neck it as they have catapulted themselves down a blind alley with this stadium.

The only argument they have left is that soccer & rugby got their grounds developed so the GAA deserve to have theirs completed too.
The major difference is that neither Windsor nor Ravenhill ran over budget to almost double the original cost.
The GAA made a mess of their development and I can entirely understand the objection to rewarding this failure by doubling the funding, especially when the GAA itself refuses to add any further funds.
There is no doubt that if the shoe was on the other foot the GAA would be going nuts about it and rightly so IMO.

I've probably changed my mind on casement over the years.

I know it's a ridiculously simple comparison , because money presumably can't be reallocated , but imagine if the expected £150m spend on Casement was spent on grass roots including facilities development , game's development, community development, local employment, how much more it would help our association.
The only argument for a 34k facility is if it results in income generation and GAA promotion that helps the GAA and the community .
Clones is a more than adequate location for the one day in the year That it's filled.
Plough a few more £££ into Corrigan, for a quality ~10k stadium .
Sell casement.
Release government funds pro-rata to counties for facilities and grassroots development.

Much more sustainable model going forward ,

There was a whole lot of pie-in-the-sky guff spoken about Pairc Ui Chaoimh being an income generator for Cork GAA, boosting the GAA in the local community and everything short of being a cure for cancer before that rebuild. None of this aspirational build-it-and-they-will-come stuff has panned out at all. [The selling of the naming rights was budgeted to generate 100k in 2016 and 2017. It's now 2021 and not one Euro has been raised from the stadium naming rights.] Lots of contractors in Cork made a nice chunk of change and banks have made a nice chunk of change with their loans to Cork GAA. Stadium has had a literal handful of GAA games with crowds over 30k nevermind 45k.

All you have to do is look at the Ulster Championship attendances over the last decade [pre-Covid], especially outside Ulster Final day and it immediately becomes clear how stupid it is go building a 34.5k capacity stadium at Casement.

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects as it provides opportunities and a sense of achievement which can't be underestimated , but the same would be derived from an injection of cash into grassroots

I've no issues with local contractors benefitting from these projects either as long as they are the best people for the job.
The problem is that I've heard from multiple people that this clearly wasn't the case for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

[6th sam]

Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

This is a good point.
Even though the provincial championship has served ulster well, it's in borrowed time in its current form

[BennyCake]

Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

Yeah good point.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

We already don't have a hurling final. Embarrassing. McGeehan and the fat cats don't seem to care about that

[Milltown Row2]

A bit like when building motorways, 4 line seemed way overboard, some need 5 or 6 lanes now. Let's see if it's built first then judge it after 10 years

I'd agree. There's no point putting too much thought into it now sure if it isn't working out after 10 years you can always unbuild it and get your money back.

Which part of there was no other money other than getting a new Casement built that you don't understand? It was either going into a new Casement or not going anywhere? The size was way too big and no one on here is saying any different..

What's transpired since it being agreed between Ulster council the planning the government has been a shit show. This money was set aside for one thing only. Where will they get the remaining money (if they ever do) who knows, frankly I'm beyond caring TBH

But if its going to be built then why do you actually care?  Really it won't make a bitta difference, we have a new 'home' in Corrigan park to play our county games and it can be developed further, along with our other grounds to have games played at. for the amount of 'fans' that go to games in Antrim the redevelopment of other grounds will provide ample room to watch games

I didn't ever suggest building it elsewhere but keep you building straw men. The reality is that there are options AT CASEMENT beyond praying for a sugar daddy to bail us out to the tune of 60 million quid. Like building an excellent stadium with the 77 million we have.

Anyhow, my point was what is the merit in judging it after 10 years? If we realise we shouldn't have built it, what can we do?

As for the rest of your post, if we don't need it why do we care it is closed?

Where in my post did I suggest you said building it elsewhere? What's are these options you're saying for Casement that hasn't been discussed or been discussed? 

That horse has bolted on the changes that most people want, smaller stadium owned and used by Antrim? That effectively was lost once it was signed over.

All the moaning on this unfortunately won't change a thing, Antrim need to look elsewhere if, as some people think that our club finals and county teams won't be allowed to be played.

So Corrigan and Ballycastle it is

[Milltown Row2]

I'm going to be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how to answer you. You're posts are so incoherent it is really difficult to know what you are talking about. I will try however.

In your first paragraph, you mention money going into a new Casement or nowhere and that I failed to understand that. I picked that up as you believing I was suggesting an alternative site to Casement.
On your 2nd question, whatever has been discussed or not is irrelevant. 77 million gets you a great stadium and considering how the ground lies I think everything needs to be considered. It is a big ask to find 60 million so I don't think the horse will get too far.
I admire your honesty that Antrim have lost Casement. I don't think a lot of Antrim Gaels appreciate that fact yet. As I say, now that it is so meaningless to us in Antrim why do we care that it's closed?

The money is for the new build at Casement, nowhere meaning if casement wasn't being built then money that was allocated for it was lost, and not available for anything else, no small development, no make over and certainly not available for putting into regenerating Antrim GAA.

This was all agreed at the start. Once SF got involved, who in my opinion looked at this as a flagship for them, then I lost interest right away, it was always going to be resisted by other unionist parties once they got involved, and this in the main, along with the pathetic planning has allowed this to become a shit show.

Are you saying that they should do a replanned stadium and throw more money at it?

[Walter Cronc]

I'm going to be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how to answer you. You're posts are so incoherent it is really difficult to know what you are talking about. I will try however.

In your first paragraph, you mention money going into a new Casement or nowhere and that I failed to understand that. I picked that up as you believing I was suggesting an alternative site to Casement.
On your 2nd question, whatever has been discussed or not is irrelevant. 77 million gets you a great stadium and considering how the ground lies I think everything needs to be considered. It is a big ask to find 60 million so I don't think the horse will get too far.
I admire your honesty that Antrim have lost Casement. I don't think a lot of Antrim Gaels appreciate that fact yet. As I say, now that it is so meaningless to us in Antrim why do we care that it's closed?

The money is for the new build at Casement, nowhere meaning if casement wasn't being built then money that was allocated for it was lost, and not available for anything else, no small development, no make over and certainly not available for putting into regenerating Antrim GAA.

This was all agreed at the start. Once SF got involved, who in my opinion looked at this as a flagship for them, then I lost interest right away, it was always going to be resisted by other unionist parties once they got involved, and this in the main, along with the pathetic planning has allowed this to become a shit show.

Are you saying that they should do a replanned stadium and throw more money at it?

Agree that it's turned it into a political football. Grinds my gears when some of these so called gaels get involved. Could it not be built to a more basic spec? Safe standing areas behind the goals for kids/u16s at cheaper prices.

[Milltown Row2]

Yes, I do. They've done it before so it can be done again.

What's the alternative? Hope it gets bailed out?

They still have a pile of dough that could build a great stadium. I think Ravenhill was redeveloped for about a quarter of the money the GAA has at its disposal for Casement. A bit of realism wouldn't go amiss.

They, whoever that is, are hell bent on a stadium 30,000 plus and the logic of a Kingspan type stadium is lost on them.

Like I've said I'm beyond caring, bar the nostalgia I've had with Casement and the amazing times l've had there it's gone unfortunately, I'd be happier with a north Antrim venue, better facilities at Antrim a South West county ground and more work put in at Corrigan.

[Milltown Row2]

That's good, this is a discussion board after all, so hopefully someone is listening in and taking on board what anonymous posters are concerned about.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

It's a great day for the Gaels of Ulster if you believe Ulster GAA and Antrim Twitter

[BennyHarp]

The point about the money being for Casement or nowhere has always been the sticking point. I appreciate that this is the way it is but given the difficulty in getting Casement sorted, surely it would have been easier to re-negotiate the terms of the use of the money than continue on a 10 year shit show of a process that ultimately delivers a hugely overpriced stadium, during massively changed economic times, for a GAA which is going through a structural change that may render the 34K+ Capacity pointless. If the same effort was put into negotiating how the money was spent as was put into negotiating with residents and planners then I'm sure some agreement could have been reached - especially if money could have been saved as a result. I know people are going to say that I don't understand that it was casement or nothing blah blah but my point is that if there was a will to change it, I'm sure it could have happened and it would most likely have been easier to get a few people in a room and thrash this out than go through what we have witnessed over the past few years. A smaller stadium with money left over for development would have been a win for all involved.

[johnnycool]

Lots of chat here that the stadium will only be filled once a year for an Ulster final. Something to consider is that there may not be too many more years of provincial Championships - or if there are, it will in my view be as a secondary competition to a restructured championship.

We already don't have a hurling final. Embarrassing. McGeehan and the fat cats don't seem to care about that

Ulster Council has abdicated responsibility for hurling quite a few years ago, not only do we not have an Ulster Senior Hurling Championship, but none for U20 or minor. We're now in Leinster by the looks of it.

[BennyCake]

Ulster's biggest city had to have a big stadium. How would it look if they abandoned Casement totally or only built a 15,000 capacity akin to Páirc Esler or Brewster Park? Or moved the money to Armagh and made it Ulster's showpiece stadium? It's a statement from Ulster GAA for the future of GAA in Belfast.

It's a bit like when the British Empire had to be seen to build the biggest bridge, ship, building, etc in London, the heart of the empire, without being able to even afford it (the peasants taxes will pay for it). It's a macho thing, flexing your muscles, a peacock displaying its feathers. That's what Ulster GAA are doing. Anything less, and it's a statement that the GAA are weak in Belfast, they aren't the dominant sport in the city etc.

Whether Casement will be a white elephant or not, time will tell. But Ulster GAA needs to make a big statement in the biggest city regardless of cost or how often it's used.

[Rossfan]

I presume with costs having rocketed that it will be redeveloped in stages now depending on how much £€ become available?