Division one 2021

Started by tonto1888, December 14, 2020, 07:59:23 PM

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seafoid

Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rossfan

9 leading hurling Counties any one of which could beat the other on a given day.
1 giant football County who win every game they want to.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Armagh18

Quote from: Rossfan on June 15, 2021, 11:00:46 AM
9 leading hurling Counties any one of which could beat the other on a given day.
1 giant football County who win every game they want to.
Would be a serious championship without those Dub feckers in it. Kerry probably well clear of the rest imo but at least 8 teams would fancy themselves to cause an upset and from 3-12 anyone could beat anyone on a given day!

smelmoth

Up in Armagh we are excellent at turning in on ourselves when things go wrong. Galway are no slouchers in this regard.

From my experience the best thing is to identify one individual and get people to obsess about them. One group can idolise the individual and see no wrong. The other polarised group can work on a deep suspicion of the individual and see wrong in all they do/don't do/think about doing/are rumoured according to "well placed sources" to be contemplating doing.

It's a tried and trusted method and gives people something to do whilst Dublin chalk up the silverware

Maroon Manc

#784
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.

Disagree, Galway aren't that bad, still got some excellent players who'd fit right in with Dublin/Mayo and especially given their playing in a better side.

Its been mentioned for as long as I've been on the forum and doesn't take a genius to work out there's a huge issue from when lads are finished with u20's and bring turning the u21 championship into the u20's has escalated the problem.

Galway have some record over Mayo at 17's/18's/20's/21's in recent years. I think Mayo have won one match in extra time between the counties in a long long time. Cant remember the last time Mayo beat Galway in the u21's, maybe 2012?  Mayo haven't beat Galway at the u20's yet. Mayo are obviously doing better work with players once their finished with the u20's, I'd say the likes of Tommy Conroy, Mullin, Ryan O'Donoghue, Eoghan McLaughlin, Rory Brickenden, Jordan Flynn, Enda Hession, Bryan Walsh and James Carr never beat Galway in underage.

An Fhairche Abu

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
If you took Dublin out of it, it doesn't change a thing for Galway really in terms the issues we have, we just dipped into D2, that's not Dublin's fault. Myriad of structural issues that need to be sorted out ourselves that have nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo and Kerry aren't standing around feeling sorry for themselves.
Money wise ok, Dublin have huge advantage but how are other counties managing it better? Even look at the fundraising effort that was attempted in March, they got nowhere with it, maybe the public in Galway just don't care, I don't know at this stage but can't blame Dublin for things that are our own lookout.

imtommygunn

Galway are struggling to bring through players to senior level. Even Shane Walsh took quite a while though I do think that car crash stuff seemed to impact him. If you look at the under 20s last year you had to pull in boys who weren't even in the squad to play Kerry and still beat them well. That big ginger haired fella was fantastic and by all accounts wasn't even in the squad.

Something hasn't been right for a good few years now. Like has been said - nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo have been the best team in Connacht for what now... more or less a decade? They are good no doubt but Galway have better players coming through and there shouldn't be a period of dominance like that.

seafoid

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 15, 2021, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
If you took Dublin out of it, it doesn't change a thing for Galway really in terms the issues we have, we just dipped into D2, that's not Dublin's fault. Myriad of structural issues that need to be sorted out ourselves that have nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo and Kerry aren't standing around feeling sorry for themselves.
Money wise ok, Dublin have huge advantage but how are other counties managing it better? Even look at the fundraising effort that was attempted in March, they got nowhere with it, maybe the public in Galway just don't care, I don't know at this stage but can't blame Dublin for things that are our own lookout.
Best in subclass would be Mayo. say. Mayo can get to the all Ireland. But they can't win it.
It would be  hard to sell losing all Irelands to Galway fans.

None of the other second line  teams have made any progress in recent years. The progress that you would have normally expected for teams in Division 1.
They are all different aspects of shite. Sure they can improve but for what ? The process of winning doesn't work any more.

I don't imagine that the GAA thought through the implications of when  the possibility of winning Sam is removed from a county
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Armagh18

Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 15, 2021, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
If you took Dublin out of it, it doesn't change a thing for Galway really in terms the issues we have, we just dipped into D2, that's not Dublin's fault. Myriad of structural issues that need to be sorted out ourselves that have nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo and Kerry aren't standing around feeling sorry for themselves.
Money wise ok, Dublin have huge advantage but how are other counties managing it better? Even look at the fundraising effort that was attempted in March, they got nowhere with it, maybe the public in Galway just don't care, I don't know at this stage but can't blame Dublin for things that are our own lookout.
Best in subclass would be Mayo. say. Mayo can get to the all Ireland. But they can't win it.
It would be  hard to sell losing all Irelands to Galway fans.

None of the other second line  teams have made any progress in recent years. The progress that you would have normally expected for teams in Division 1.
They are all different aspects of shite. Sure they can improve but for what ? The process of winning doesn't work any more.

I don't imagine that the GAA thought through the implications of when  the possibility of winning Sam is removed from a county
They could quit feeling sorry for themselves and go out and win the thing, like Kerry or Mayo will likely do this year or next..

thebackbar1

Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 15, 2021, 08:13:29 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.

This is certainly part of the problem,. None of this is done, what is the long term plan to put structures in place that would even allow Galway to be at least competitive at the top level every year instead of standing still year after year bar the odd blip like 2018. If the plan is wait for a set of generational players to all hopefully come along in the same timeframe then best of luck with that.
Too many on county board don't care once the hurlers are doing alright is the truth of it as well, you only need look at the selective edit they made to KW's statement when he left the gig that highlighted the problems at their end.

I don't think its a fair comment to say that the county board only care about the hurlers. A significant proportion of the county board are from a football background, including the secretary, pro and coaching officer. I don't believe the spend on the footballers is that much smaller that the hurlers. I think the hurlers are spending their money better in terms of s&c. Fundamentally Galway needs more people getting behind the county and contributing to doing things.

seafoid

Quote from: Armagh18 on June 15, 2021, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 12:50:08 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 15, 2021, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2021, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 14, 2021, 11:32:08 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 14, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
Quote from: Tubberman on June 13, 2021, 11:22:46 PM
Quote from: An Fhairche Abu on June 13, 2021, 11:07:42 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 13, 2021, 10:07:39 PM
Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
If you took Dublin out of it, it doesn't change a thing for Galway really in terms the issues we have, we just dipped into D2, that's not Dublin's fault. Myriad of structural issues that need to be sorted out ourselves that have nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo and Kerry aren't standing around feeling sorry for themselves.
Money wise ok, Dublin have huge advantage but how are other counties managing it better? Even look at the fundraising effort that was attempted in March, they got nowhere with it, maybe the public in Galway just don't care, I don't know at this stage but can't blame Dublin for things that are our own lookout.
Best in subclass would be Mayo. say. Mayo can get to the all Ireland. But they can't win it.
It would be  hard to sell losing all Irelands to Galway fans.

None of the other second line  teams have made any progress in recent years. The progress that you would have normally expected for teams in Division 1.
They are all different aspects of shite. Sure they can improve but for what ? The process of winning doesn't work any more.

I don't imagine that the GAA thought through the implications of when  the possibility of winning Sam is removed from a county
They could quit feeling sorry for themselves and go out and win the thing, like Kerry or Mayo will likely do this year or next..
The bookies don't agree.The Dubs will continue to win Sam until the GAA is forced to change the setup.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

galwayman

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Lets see what the championship brings although I've very little optimism.

Same boat here, have to support whatever happens but really not seeing where some massive transformation will come from at the minute, the results don't lie.
PJ didn't speak to the media afterwards either, a really, really poor look, I know this is a backbreaking loss but have to front up and own it, you're the man in charge.


He looked absolutely crushed at final whistle which is understandable,  but as you said, he's the manager and it's his job to come out and represent his team and defend them.
Having said that, i think ye might be a bit hard on him/the team.  They should have won that match, and i still think they may well win Connacht. They lost their nerve in final minutes of last year's connacht final and again today which must be a worry but they did a lot right up to then.
They wouldnt have a hope against Dublin in a semi final but sure there's very few, if any, that would.

I don't expect to win Connacht but its not going to be a major shock if Galway did. If they can get beat Roscommon everyone knows that Mayo struggle to break down a packed defence which I'm sure is what Galway will provide.

If we're been realistic looking at the Galway and Mayo teams individually Mayo look like their only a few players away from challenging for the big prize and they may find them this summer whilst Galway are probably 7 or 8 players away, now like Mayo they may find a couple of players may nail down a place over the next few months but that gap to the Dubs shouldn't be that big with the underage success Galway have had.

Now clearly that isn't just Joyce's fault but there are a good few players who aren't the panel who like Varley & Kerin who would be in my starting 15. Kerin was a bit rash in his last appearance for Galway against Mayo a few years ago but prior to that he'd never let Galway down and put in some excellent performances.

Galway have had some really tough defeats to deal with in the last 9 months and ultimately the manager is too blame, game management was non existent throughout the match.


Jeez, if we're 7/8 players away from the big one, who are the other 7/8 players we have currently? Because I'm really struggling to see any at this time. Don't think we have any defender that would get on the Mayo or Dublin sides, any right midfielder either (though Tierney may finally fill a spot for us there), and no forward that would make a Kerry or Dublin team bar Walsh at his best. It almost beggars belief that we can't transition some good underage players through to adulthood/senior level but there just seems to be a disconnect there now. Structures must be lacking or something.

Our hurlers finally seem to be doing this properly. They have currently a very good U20 team arising out of several AI-winning Minor teams; they're already conditioned to play Senior but won't be rushed in until good and ready.
The hurlers started the latest project 10 years ago. They took a load of victorious under 21s and got rid of a consignment of serial losers. The footballers lost their way in the last decade despite making it back to D1 and an all Ireland semi  and have a consignment of serial losers. .It's hard to know what the influence of Dublin on this is.
If every road to Sam ends up in a match against Dublin does it change the attraction of playing for your  county ?  If you look at other prominent counties such as Tyrone, Meath, Cork and Down, none of them are going anywhere either.

The hurlers have no such restrictions. And you can't say that the competitive state of hurling is poor.
If you took Dublin out of it, it doesn't change a thing for Galway really in terms the issues we have, we just dipped into D2, that's not Dublin's fault. Myriad of structural issues that need to be sorted out ourselves that have nothing to do with Dublin. Mayo and Kerry aren't standing around feeling sorry for themselves.
Money wise ok, Dublin have huge advantage but how are other counties managing it better? Even look at the fundraising effort that was attempted in March, they got nowhere with it, maybe the public in Galway just don't care, I don't know at this stage but can't blame Dublin for things that are our own lookout.
Best in subclass would be Mayo. say. Mayo can get to the all Ireland. But they can't win it.
It would be  hard to sell losing all Irelands to Galway fans.

None of the other second line  teams have made any progress in recent years. The progress that you would have normally expected for teams in Division 1.
They are all different aspects of shite. Sure they can improve but for what ? The process of winning doesn't work any more.

I don't imagine that the GAA thought through the implications of when  the possibility of winning Sam is removed from a county
They could quit feeling sorry for themselves and go out and win the thing, like Kerry or Mayo will likely do this year or next..
The bookies don't agree.The Dubs will continue to win Sam until the GAA is forced to change the setup.
Kerry will win an All Ireland in the next 3 seasons (maybe even this year) I have little doubt about that.

seafoid

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-galway-s-defeat-at-the-death-to-monaghan-is-shocking-and-unforgivable-1.4594401

Darragh Ó Sé: Galway's defeat at the death to Monaghan is shocking and unforgivable

Pádraic Joyce will be especially frustrated with the number of mistakes made at the end

 
Watching Galway throw away their Division One status on Sunday was hard enough for me as a neutral observer so I can only imagine how horrific it is going to be for Pádraic Joyce and his players when they go through the video. Monaghan deserve all the credit in the world for sticking to their task but they shouldn't have had a hope. Their destiny should have been kept out of their hands.

Galway couldn't close it out even though they were five points up in the 68th minute. That's shocking at any level but it's really unforgivable for a Division One team. You don't always get what you deserve in sport but Galway couldn't argue with what happened to them on Sunday. They played more than enough football to get a result but playing well and winning are two separate skills. You need to be able to play good football to get to Division One. You need to be able to win to stay there.

Monaghan are in Division One longer than every team in Ireland apart from Dublin and Kerry. You look around the country and you find plenty of teams that can play better football than them but all of them have been relegated at one stage or another over the past few years. Monaghan have gone into the last game of the league needing a result three or four times and they've always managed to find it. Why are they able to do it and teams like Galway aren't?

Miserable
I know you can say the league is the league or whatever but Galway are one of the teams that will only develop properly in Division One. The way they shot themselves in the foot in the closing minutes of that game gave me the impression they didn't really understand what was at stake. They didn't protect the ball, they didn't protect their goal, they didn't protect their lead. It must be killing Joyce that they gave up a Division One spot so cheaply.

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It has been such a miserable 16 months for them. I think it's fair to say that no team has had their momentum interrupted by the pandemic more than Galway have. Compare their before and after results and it makes for lousy reading. In the first five games of the 2020 league they beat Monaghan, only lost to Kerry in injury time, walloped Tyrone and beat both Donegal and Meath on their home patches. They were top of Division One, they had the most goals of anyone in the country. They were flying.

Look at what they've offered since. Hammered by Mayo on their first day back in October. Beaten by Dublin the following week. Lost by a point to Mayo in the Connacht final. On to this year's league and they've been trounced by Kerry, lost to the Dubs, beaten Roscommon and now caught at the death by Monaghan. They've gone from a run of four wins from five games to one where they have just one win from their last seven.

The thing is, they could have washed an awful lot of that away on Sunday. If you end your league by going to Clones to beat Monaghan and stay in Division One, you can look at everything that went before in a different light.

The hiding in Tralee? Sure look, every team gets a trimming from time to time. And also, it was their first game in six months. There was no line of form, everyone was flying blind. And didn't they come back the following week and beat Roscommon by six points? And weren't they within a kick of a ball against Dublin until the Dubs got a goal in injury time?

You can convince anyone of anything when you win the game that matters – including yourselves! Imagine Galway at training this week if they had closed that game out. There'd be a huge buzz around the place. They'd be mad for road, knowing they have three weeks to get ready for Roscommon, who have just been relegated. The summer would be full of possibilities.


Galway manager Padraig Joyce reacts after Conor McManus of Monaghan ties the game. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
Galway manager Pádraig Joyce reacts after Conor McManus of Monaghan ties the game. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
Instead, they're having tough conversations about where they're going wrong. They're going back to the drawing board and having to talk about the fundamental things you need to do to close a game out. Basic stuff like making the opposition have to take potshots, forcing them away from posts, giving them no sniff of a goal under any circumstances.

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This is the learning you are supposed to do in Division One. But after four years in the top division, look at the three key scores that relegated Galway. Each one of them was fairly preventable at any time in any game – but to give them up with so much at stake makes you wonder what good the four years has done them.

The most important score was Darren Hughes's goal. Without it, Monaghan didn't have enough time to draw level in normal time. Above all else, that had to be Galway's mantra. They can't survive without a goal, lads. We don't concede.

When Niall Kearns got possession, he was basically in the corner-forward position, top of the right. That's the first place it should have ended. Two Galway defenders went out to Kearns – even the smallest bit of communication between them would have cut off the endline and made him turn back away from goal.

Instead, all it took was a quick shimmy and he was around the first man and suddenly the second one – their full-back Seán Mulkerrin – was in no man's land. He wasn't doubling up to turn Kearns back, he wasn't cutting off the cross and he wasn't protecting the square. Again, the goal was all that mattered at that point. All Mulkerrin had to do was one of those three things and the goal wouldn't have happened.


Sympathy
And that's before we get to Johnny Duane's defending once Hughes collected the ball. You could maybe have a small bit of sympathy for him on the basis that he had only just gone on to Hughes after Paul Conroy was black-carded.

But again, isn't that a perfect summing up of how little Galway have learned about closing out a game? Conroy was having a great game, he was driving Galway on from midfield, really standing out. And then he got involved in a stupid tussle with Hughes over a sideline ball and pulled his ankle from under him for the easiest black card David Gough will ever give. That's one of your leaders taking himself out of the game with relegation on the line. No wonder Joyce didn't want to talk to the media after the game.

As for Duane, he probably didn't feel overly comfortable being the last man back on the edge of the square. But even so, you can't get turned like that so close to goal. At least make Hughes shoot with his bad foot. Duane made such a bad decision that it would actually have been better for Galway if he hadn't moved at all. If he had literally stood still, there was a better chance of Hughes hitting him with the ball. Instead, he opened up the only route to goal.

That was the killer score. But even after it, Galway didn't need to lose the game. They got themselves a point ahead and tackled like demons through the last play of the game to try and turn Monaghan over. And they very nearly got there. But in the end, they allowed Conor McManus to score an equaliser from the middle of the pitch on the edge of the D.

Great players make great plays. All you can do is try to make them have to do something special to beat you. Monaghan have called on McManus countless times over the years to get them out of a hole – would this one even be in his top 20? Once he had possession, all he had to do was cut inside onto his good foot and score from straight in front of the posts.


Galway had that game won and they found several ways not to win it
I know the game was in the melting pot. There were bodies everywhere and it can't have been easy to keep a clear head. But if you're Galway, you have to know that the one thing Monaghan want more than anything is to get McManus on the ball in the middle of the pitch. Whatever else happens, you can't let that be the last shot of the match. Somebody has to make that his mission throughout that last Monaghan attack. Nobody did.

Maybe the worst of all was Jack McCarron's point at the end of extra time. At least for the other two scores, Monaghan had the ball. For this one, Galway got a block on a shot from McManus and it dropped short, meaning the Galway goalkeeper Connor Gleeson had the ball in his hands with 10 seconds left on the clock.

Overhit
Galway couldn't win the game from there. They could only draw it and send it to penalties or they could lose it. They showed no sense that they knew this.

Gleeson got rid of the ball as quickly as possible, dishing it off to his corner-back, even though Monaghan had far more men down the stand side of the pitch than Galway had. All it took was for the next handpass to be overhit and Monaghan had the ball back.

These are just bad decisions. Gleeson needed to know not to go down that side of the pitch. He needed to know how long was left and that they had to run down the clock. The corner-back needed to play a better pass out of defence. Even when McCarron got the ball, he still had a Galway man between him and the goal. You can't bite on a dummy in that situation. Basic defending is turning a left-footed shooter back onto his right. If you're going to beat us, Jack, let's see you do it with your right foot.

Galway did none of this. That has to be the most frustrating thing for Joyce. If one mistake costs you a game, you can write it off. It's tough on the guy who makes it but sport is sport. That's just how it goes sometimes. But for those three key scores, Galway made close to a dozen mistakes – in positioning, in decision-making, in technique – when doing the right thing even once would have changed the result.

There is no shame in losing to Monaghan in Clones and being relegated. They are vastly experienced, they are hardy, they have some of the best ever players still going strong. But Galway had that game won and they found several ways not to win it.

Going into another knockout championship, that doesn't bode well for them.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

J70

Seeing the sequence of events and mistakes outlined like that has to make for pretty brutal reading for the Galway panel and management! :o

At least they should have a bit of fire in their belly for the Roscommon game.

mouview

A lot of harsh home truths in that article alright. But everytime you give up possession or concede scores involves making poor decisions or a sequence of mistakes. Allied to that, Monaghan kicked some quality of scores, the likes of which are very hard to defend against and not likely to be seen every game they play.

It's moot whether Galway would have survived even in an enlarged Div. I. O'Se talks about players/teams learning from their time spent playing there. Galway's problem is that they can't settle on a fixed team, due to injuries and players not being good enough, particularly down the spine. Sean Andy was FB for a couple of seasons but got some roastings; Mulkerrins has promise but is in his first season and is raw. (Also, perhaps Tom Flynn like, he really needs to be playing at a higher club level.) The one proper CHB we've had in a good few years, John Daly, can't seem to get injury free. Can never seem to settle on a consistent midfield pairing. Shane Walsh is more suited to CHF but doesn't always finish. Comer is injured a lot too. And so on. And then you have to add on the players each side who aren't exactly putting their hands up either. There's no point in winning or trying to win Connacht if a hammering awaits in the next round, absolutely none. It is as usual a longer term project for the team to settle and develop and become stronger organically. (A return to the Super 8s would also be beneficial. ) I don't think PJ is the man to oversee longer term development however, always struck me as a 'get rich quick' appointment.