Would you be in favour of a second tier?

[trailer]

Fermanagh have produced some very good teams and players this century. If there were more than one tier then currently they should be in tier 2 but you are disrespecting them a bit there and unfairly so. McGrath and Owens would have made most Tyrone teams including the AI winning ones. They got to a replay in an AI semi which they arguably could have won and have been to a few provincial finals.

Ack away and shite, Barry Owens or Marty McGrath would get in any Tyrone team blah blah blah. Bottom line is this. They have never won an USFC title since the competition started. They regularly get humped in the first round. They are a small county with something like 16 or 17 clubs. It's like saying Barnet should be in the Champions League. They are not good enough, they never have been good enough and they never will be good enough. Put them into a competition that they can possibly win and stop these God awful hammering matches.

[befair]

Tiers work well in club football and ladies county football; just watch the celebrations when an intermediate or junior championship is won. But these competitions would need support, resources and coverage e.g the 2nd tier final should be the opener on All-Ireland day.

[Rossfan]

How many tickets would the 2 Competing Counties get.?
If Leitrim, Carlow etc get to an All Ireland Final giving them 1,000 tickets each would be an insult.
Play the 3 Finals Minor, U20 and Tier 2 on the Saturday of AI weekend.

[BennyCake]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

[trailer]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Teams moan and complain about the coverage of 2nd tier competitions yet they regularly fail to provide players and management for interviews and press days, just in case someone might say something honest.
In regards to the coverage of the Rackard and Meagher finals (4th and 5th tier) it is a demand issue - in that there is no demand... Tyrone and Mayo are not Hurling counites and 15 mins on the Sunday Game isn't going to change that.

[tbrick18]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Probably not, but since when did media coverage dictate the structure of what our games should be.
Club games generally dont have much media coverage....it doesn't dilute the passion or desire of the teams involved in a junior club championship final if they're not on tv.
They want to win, to prove themselves against the competitions who ever that may be.

I've changed my stance on this over the years where I used to be totally against a 2nd tier championship. But there is such a disparity now between teams that we are not getting competitive games until the semi-finals/finals and it seems to be getting worse. Teams need a chance to develop and a 20point hammering doesn't help anyone. 2nd or even 3rd tier championships, like the hurling are not an absolute fix to the problem (Derry v Offally in the Christy Ring being an example) but it should certainly still help teams develop.

I take your point though on RTE coverage. It shows very little respect to players and Counties in an AI final to only give a couple of minutes of an afterthought on the weekly highlights show. I just don't think the amount of tv coverage should come into the decision making process at all.

[Lone Shark]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Teams moan and complain about the coverage of 2nd tier competitions yet they regularly fail to provide players and management for interviews and press days, just in case someone might say something honest.
In regards to the coverage of the Rackard and Meagher finals (4th and 5th tier) it is a demand issue - in that there is no demand... Tyrone and Mayo are not Hurling counites and 15 mins on the Sunday Game isn't going to change that.

Nobody in second tier hurling counties struggles to get access to players or management. I've done lots of pieces on them for a few places, and you get great copy, and people are only too happy to chat to you.

Also, TG4's success has proven that people will watch games if the coverage is good. It doesn't need to be the highest standard in the world for that to work out - how many of us would happily sit down and watch a good county final, even though a Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard final would be at least as good, if not better?

[Lone Shark]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Probably not, but since when did media coverage dictate the structure of what our games should be.
Club games generally dont have much media coverage....it doesn't dilute the passion or desire of the teams involved in a junior club championship final if they're not on tv.
They want to win, to prove themselves against the competitions who ever that may be.

I've changed my stance on this over the years where I used to be totally against a 2nd tier championship. But there is such a disparity now between teams that we are not getting competitive games until the semi-finals/finals and it seems to be getting worse. Teams need a chance to develop and a 20point hammering doesn't help anyone. 2nd or even 3rd tier championships, like the hurling are not an absolute fix to the problem (Derry v Offally in the Christy Ring being an example) but it should certainly still help teams develop.

I take your point though on RTE coverage. It shows very little respect to players and Counties in an AI final to only give a couple of minutes of an afterthought on the weekly highlights show. I just don't think the amount of tv coverage should come into the decision making process at all.

Firstly, this is the nub of the issue - and creating tiered championships will only make that worse. Hurling has proven that. There are far fewer instances any more of teams at the Joe McDonagh level knocking over an elite team. During the  1980's and 1990's, Down beat Kilkenny in an important league match, Kerry knocked Waterford out of the championship, Westmeath beat Galway, Roscommon beat Wexford, and there were plenty more instances. Now we have a situation where Laois beat Dublin two years ago, arguably a game between two counties that would have been next to each other in the overall rankings at the time, in Portlaoise - and we all think that's the biggest upset imaginable.

Secondly, club is not comparable, for one simple reason. At club level, a player with Tuam Stars or Annaghdown will see his name in the Tuam Herald a lot more than a player with St. Gabriel's or Kilconly, but that's no huge sporting advantage. At county level, it means a massive difference in commercial income for the county, and thus more backroom support for county teams, while it's arguably a bigger advantage for the player. A Dublin player who suddenly needs €500 for an unexpected bill goes and cuts a ribbon at a local pharmacy, or pops up two sponsored instagram posts. A Wicklow player has to go out and work 25 hours of overtime, 25 hours in which the Dublin player is doing his recovery, extra skills work, video work, yoga etc..

Then the Wicklow player has to listen to people tell him how the Dublin players works harder than he does, and that's why he's successful.

This is why coverage is important - it levels the financial playing field. It's also why I know of some weaker counties that have said they'll happily support a tier two competition, as long as all the commercial sponsorship income going into each of the counties is pooled. Needless to say they were given short shrift when they made that suggestion.

[trailer]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Teams moan and complain about the coverage of 2nd tier competitions yet they regularly fail to provide players and management for interviews and press days, just in case someone might say something honest.
In regards to the coverage of the Rackard and Meagher finals (4th and 5th tier) it is a demand issue - in that there is no demand... Tyrone and Mayo are not Hurling counites and 15 mins on the Sunday Game isn't going to change that.

Nobody in second tier hurling counties struggles to get access to players or management. I've done lots of pieces on them for a few places, and you get great copy, and people are only too happy to chat to you.

Also, TG4's success has proven that people will watch games if the coverage is good. It doesn't need to be the highest standard in the world for that to work out - how many of us would happily sit down and watch a good county final, even though a Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard final would be at least as good, if not better?

Good so there is no problem re coverage.

[trailer]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Probably not, but since when did media coverage dictate the structure of what our games should be.
Club games generally dont have much media coverage....it doesn't dilute the passion or desire of the teams involved in a junior club championship final if they're not on tv.
They want to win, to prove themselves against the competitions who ever that may be.

I've changed my stance on this over the years where I used to be totally against a 2nd tier championship. But there is such a disparity now between teams that we are not getting competitive games until the semi-finals/finals and it seems to be getting worse. Teams need a chance to develop and a 20point hammering doesn't help anyone. 2nd or even 3rd tier championships, like the hurling are not an absolute fix to the problem (Derry v Offally in the Christy Ring being an example) but it should certainly still help teams develop.

I take your point though on RTE coverage. It shows very little respect to players and Counties in an AI final to only give a couple of minutes of an afterthought on the weekly highlights show. I just don't think the amount of tv coverage should come into the decision making process at all.

Firstly, this is the nub of the issue - and creating tiered championships will only make that worse. Hurling has proven that. There are far fewer instances any more of teams at the Joe McDonagh level knocking over an elite team. During the  1980's and 1990's, Down beat Kilkenny in an important league match, Kerry knocked Waterford out of the championship, Westmeath beat Galway, Roscommon beat Wexford, and there were plenty more instances. Now we have a situation where Laois beat Dublin two years ago, arguably a game between two counties that would have been next to each other in the overall rankings at the time, in Portlaoise - and we all think that's the biggest upset imaginable.

Secondly, club is not comparable, for one simple reason. At club level, a player with Tuam Stars or Annaghdown will see his name in the Tuam Herald a lot more than a player with St. Gabriel's or Kilconly, but that's no huge sporting advantage. At county level, it means a massive difference in commercial income for the county, and thus more backroom support for county teams, while it's arguably a bigger advantage for the player. A Dublin player who suddenly needs €500 for an unexpected bill goes and cuts a ribbon at a local pharmacy, or pops up two sponsored instagram posts. A Wicklow player has to go out and work 25 hours of overtime, 25 hours in which the Dublin player is doing his recovery, extra skills work, video work, yoga etc..

Then the Wicklow player has to listen to people tell him how the Dublin players works harder than he does, and that's why he's successful.

This is why coverage is important - it levels the financial playing field. It's also why I know of some weaker counties that have said they'll happily support a tier two competition, as long as all the commercial sponsorship income going into each of the counties is pooled. Needless to say they were given short shrift when they made that suggestion.

I think there is 4 hurling clubs in Tyrone with a senior team. In Donegal it used to be only one team. Cavan have a few teams. You're advocating that those counties who play lip service to Hurling should have a shot at winning the Liam McCarthy. Everyone needs to get real here.

[Rossfan]

Anybody read much in the papers about Sligo, Leitrim, Longford, Antrim or Waterford footballers in the last few weeks?

[High Fielder]

There has to be an outlet at the highest level for good players in smaller counties. There aren't many sports that I know of where the best players can never compete at the top. The county system is fundamentally flawed in that regard

[Lone Shark]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Teams moan and complain about the coverage of 2nd tier competitions yet they regularly fail to provide players and management for interviews and press days, just in case someone might say something honest.
In regards to the coverage of the Rackard and Meagher finals (4th and 5th tier) it is a demand issue - in that there is no demand... Tyrone and Mayo are not Hurling counites and 15 mins on the Sunday Game isn't going to change that.

Nobody in second tier hurling counties struggles to get access to players or management. I've done lots of pieces on them for a few places, and you get great copy, and people are only too happy to chat to you.

Also, TG4's success has proven that people will watch games if the coverage is good. It doesn't need to be the highest standard in the world for that to work out - how many of us would happily sit down and watch a good county final, even though a Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard final would be at least as good, if not better?

Good so there is no problem re coverage.

That's not what I said. There is no problem with access, once the will is there. I write for local papers, and for GAA.ie, who are interested in these stories. I'm not an editor for the Sunday Game or a commissioning producer for a TV station, which is the where the problem lies.

[trailer]

A sign of things to come with any proposed tiered championship. The Sunday game showed highlights of the 3 hurling finals last night.

Ring - 2 minutes
Rackard - 1 minute 30 seconds
Meagher - 1 minute 20 seconds

With a total of 90 seconds discussion

And that was including celebrations and trophy lift. Bear in mind these were FINALS.

Let's not kid ourselves. Will the tier 2 or 3 football championships be any different?

Teams moan and complain about the coverage of 2nd tier competitions yet they regularly fail to provide players and management for interviews and press days, just in case someone might say something honest.
In regards to the coverage of the Rackard and Meagher finals (4th and 5th tier) it is a demand issue - in that there is no demand... Tyrone and Mayo are not Hurling counites and 15 mins on the Sunday Game isn't going to change that.

Nobody in second tier hurling counties struggles to get access to players or management. I've done lots of pieces on them for a few places, and you get great copy, and people are only too happy to chat to you.

Also, TG4's success has proven that people will watch games if the coverage is good. It doesn't need to be the highest standard in the world for that to work out - how many of us would happily sit down and watch a good county final, even though a Christy Ring or Nickey Rackard final would be at least as good, if not better?

Good so there is no problem re coverage.

That's not what I said. There is no problem with access, once the will is there. I write for local papers, and for GAA.ie, who are interested in these stories. I'm not an editor for the Sunday Game or a commissioning producer for a TV station, which is the where the problem lies.

Look I take your point. I sat down and watched Down v Monaghan on Friday. By chance just happened onto it, but my point is valid. Tyrone have no Hurling pedigree. They have very little interest in Hurling. I watched the Sunday game last night and went to bed after the football. RTE Editors would be castigated if they dedicated 15 mins to those 4th and 5th tier matches. There is very little demand unfortunately.

[Lone Shark]

I think there is 4 hurling clubs in Tyrone with a senior team. In Donegal it used to be only one team. Cavan have a few teams. You're advocating that those counties who play lip service to Hurling should have a shot at winning the Liam McCarthy. Everyone needs to get real here.

Either argue with the actual points I made, or leave it be. Of course I'm not saying that Longford should enter the Leinster hurling championship. I'm saying that tiers are grand, as long as nobody mistakes them for a solution to the problem of a massive disparity in ability. Tiers give you a competition framework, but they aren't a helping hand to get better, and if they're not managed very carefully, they only serve to set in stone the gap between teams.

Also, when it comes to tier two football, we're not talking about putting counties who pay lip service to football into it. We're talking about putting Cavan into it. Westmeath, who gave Kildare a hell of a game in the Leinster semi-final and have been very competitive all year. Leitrim, where gaelic football is the only sport in the county worth talking about. Fermanagh, likewise.

In fact if we were to do tiers right to make it competitive, you'd actually put Division Two in there as well, since the big gap is between the top seven or eight teams and the rest. There's feck all between Division Two and Division Three. Do Meath, Cork and Galway pay lip service to football as well?