Unlike in my time. Underage football starts in most clubs at under 6.
From under 6 to under 11 there is a steady flow of players taking up the game and players abandoning the game. My young lad is under 12 and I'm finding there is a fair exodus beginning now. One of the main reasons is we have had the same age group together for 2 years. last year was under 12 and this year it's under 13.
On the other hand Soccer is thriving. A and B teams, lads that are next to useless or handy enough but need a bit of confidence get their chance. Many of these will quit, but not until they are 16 and they realise that soccer is not for them.
My question is: Is it better to get rid of the driftwood early like our local GAA Club and concentrate on the talented players or should we waste time on players that will never amount to anything.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 18, 2021, 12:23:20 AM
Unlike in my time. Underage football starts in most clubs at under 6.
From under 6 to under 11 there is a steady flow of players taking up the game and players abandoning the game. My young lad is under 12 and I'm finding there is a fair exodus beginning now. One of the main reasons is we have had the same age group together for 2 years. last year was under 12 and this year it's under 13.
On the other hand Soccer is thriving. A and B teams, lads that are next to useless or handy enough but need a bit of confidence get their chance. Many of these will quit, but not until they are 16 and they realise that soccer is not for them.
My question is: Is it better to get rid of the driftwood early like our local GAA Club and concentrate on the talented players or should we waste time on players that will never amount to anything.
You missed the part of some Parents part of the management just to get their own children on ? ;)
Depends on the size of the club, what you are trying to achieve and what your ethos is. No right or wrong answers per se though generally accommodating lesser players can still pay off, if people get the feeling they are thought of as driftwood they won't hang around too long. Not all players will make it to club seniors or beyond but might have a huge role to play in other parts of club life in due course, hence why you call the youth the lifeblood of a club.
Remember a parent saying to me he'd coach teams if he had sons but he had daughters so wasn't gonna bother his arse. Sexist statement against his own kids, shitforbrains 101. The mum would be the best footballer in the house rite enuf, funny old game.
Quote from: tiempo on July 18, 2021, 12:49:32 AM
Depends on the size of the club, what you are trying to achieve and what your ethos is. No right or wrong answers per se though generally accommodating lesser players can still pay off, if people get the feeling they are thought of as driftwood they won't hang around too long. Not all players will make it to club seniors or beyond but might have a huge role to play in other parts of club life in due course, hence why you call the youth the lifeblood of a club.
Remember a parent saying to me he'd coach teams if he had sons but he had daughters so wasn't gonna bother his arse. Sexist statement against his own kids, shitforbrains 101. The mum would be the best footballer in the house rite enuf, funny old game.
He sounds lovely.
Quote from: fearbrags on July 18, 2021, 12:31:19 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 18, 2021, 12:23:20 AM
Unlike in my time. Underage football starts in most clubs at under 6.
From under 6 to under 11 there is a steady flow of players taking up the game and players abandoning the game. My young lad is under 12 and I'm finding there is a fair exodus beginning now. One of the main reasons is we have had the same age group together for 2 years. last year was under 12 and this year it's under 13.
On the other hand Soccer is thriving. A and B teams, lads that are next to useless or handy enough but need a bit of confidence get their chance. Many of these will quit, but not until they are 16 and they realise that soccer is not for them.
My question is: Is it better to get rid of the driftwood early like our local GAA Club and concentrate on the talented players or should we waste time on players that will never amount to anything.
You missed the part of some Parents part of the management just to get their own children on ? ;)
On the contrary I find that those who volunteer and invest in the club, result in their children being better players because of their exposure to more training -as they never miss training and watch club senior games/county games etc.
I've also seen a bizarre phenomenon whereby uncommitted parents expect the coaches to have their own children standing along the line to keep everybody sweet. Evidence would show that If parents want to ensure their child meets their potential, those parents should invest time in their child's sport: volunteer, educate themselves in the game, sponsor or help fundraising, or even positively support the parents who are investing time.
I remember a brilliant volunteer in our club, leaving his children along the line to give less committed players football, those less committed players drifted away anyway.
Youth football should be about opportunities and development for all, but in reality the more invested the parents , the more likely the child is to stay with the club.
At underage it's important to maximise participation but also to invest well in children who invest well in the club.
Some parents can't contribute time or money but as long as their children see them being positive and respectful of the club and coaches , that's great. Those who snipe in the background are selling their own children short, as only those with a positive view of the sport will meet their potential.
Do not where to put this but what damage do you think a another hard national lockdown would do to the GAA
Quote from: 6th sam on July 18, 2021, 10:28:54 AM
Quote from: fearbrags on July 18, 2021, 12:31:19 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 18, 2021, 12:23:20 AM
Unlike in my time. Underage football starts in most clubs at under 6.
From under 6 to under 11 there is a steady flow of players taking up the game and players abandoning the game. My young lad is under 12 and I'm finding there is a fair exodus beginning now. One of the main reasons is we have had the same age group together for 2 years. last year was under 12 and this year it's under 13.
On the other hand Soccer is thriving. A and B teams, lads that are next to useless or handy enough but need a bit of confidence get their chance. Many of these will quit, but not until they are 16 and they realise that soccer is not for them.
My question is: Is it better to get rid of the driftwood early like our local GAA Club and concentrate on the talented players or should we waste time on players that will never amount to anything.
You missed the part of some Parents part of the management just to get their own children on ? ;)
On the contrary I find that those who volunteer and invest in the club, result in their children being better players because of their exposure to more training -as they never miss training and watch club senior games/county games etc.
I've also seen a bizarre phenomenon whereby uncommitted parents expect the coaches to have their own children standing along the line to keep everybody sweet. Evidence would show that If parents want to ensure their child meets their potential, those parents should invest time in their child's sport: volunteer, educate themselves in the game, sponsor or help fundraising, or even positively support the parents who are investing time.
I remember a brilliant volunteer in our club, leaving his children along the line to give less committed players football, those less committed players drifted away anyway.
Youth football should be about opportunities and development for all, but in reality the more invested the parents , the more likely the child is to stay with the club.
At underage it's important to maximise participation but also to invest well in children who invest well in the club.
Some parents can't contribute time or money but as long as their children see them being positive and respectful of the club and coaches , that's great. Those who snipe in the background are selling their own children short, as only those with a positive view of the sport will meet their potential.
Volunteers children will always fare better. They get first call to their favoured position. They get the benefit of the doubt if they have loss in form. They will get more game time. I know this because I see both sides, teams where i have kids where I'm not involved and where I am involved.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 18, 2021, 12:23:20 AM
Unlike in my time. Underage football starts in most clubs at under 6.
From under 6 to under 11 there is a steady flow of players taking up the game and players abandoning the game. My young lad is under 12 and I'm finding there is a fair exodus beginning now. One of the main reasons is we have had the same age group together for 2 years. last year was under 12 and this year it's under 13.
On the other hand Soccer is thriving. A and B teams, lads that are next to useless or handy enough but need a bit of confidence get their chance. Many of these will quit, but not until they are 16 and they realise that soccer is not for them.
My question is: Is it better to get rid of the driftwood early like our local GAA Club and concentrate on the talented players or should we waste time on players that will never amount to anything.
As long as you never come anywhere near my club you can tear away.
Listen plenty of underage managers would step aside if others put their hands up. Reality is who wants to manage an underage side if they haven't got sons or daughters on it? Managers are first to arrive and last to leave. They're searching of that one ball long after everyone has left. They're for the most part doing their best. If all players aren't getting equal chance till they are 13 or 14 then take it up with your committee.
Play them all. You'll need them all. But remember it's not the All Ireland and they're only kids.
Quote from: trailer on July 18, 2021, 04:28:25 PM
Listen plenty of underage managers would step aside if others put their hands up. Reality is who wants to manage an underage side if they haven't got sons or daughters on it? Managers are first to arrive and last to leave. They're searching of that one ball long after everyone has left. They're for the most part doing their best. If all players aren't getting equal chance till they are 13 or 14 then take it up with your committee.
Play them all. You'll need them all. But remember it's not the All Ireland and they're only kids.
Me ;D. I'm the only one with no young lad playing (yet anyway) on the level I help out.
Would the amount of gym work be a factor in the dropout rate? I'd imagine there's not the same emphasis/need for gym work in soccer. Maybe the amount of S&C and time needed to dedicate to playing GAA is sickening youngsters and turning them away, or towards soccer?
Quote from: BennyCake on July 18, 2021, 11:03:57 PM
Would the amount of gym work be a factor in the dropout rate? I'd imagine there's not the same emphasis/need for gym work in soccer. Maybe the amount of S&C and time needed to dedicate to playing GAA is sickening youngsters and turning them away, or towards soccer?
The expectation is lower in soccer. S&C does not exist at under 11 level in either sport. At least I hope not!
Lads when do your clubs start taking matches seriously, like throwing subs on etc at u15 level if game is tight?
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs.
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs.
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
Like do coaches of U9 or U11 teams go around telling their mates about the great wins the team had? Are they down the pub talking about the sweeper system they've implemented? I wouldn't want to be in the same building with these eejits.
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:47:30 PM
Like do coaches of U9 or U11 teams go around telling their mates about the great wins the team had? Are they down the pub talking about the sweeper system they've implemented? I wouldn't want to be in the same building with these eejits.
Some of them must think it's a way into senior management or something. I'd be disappointed for the lads themselves if they have a bad game but that's it. I've seen some coaches, including some of our own, go off at lads after the game. That won't help anyone. You can't expect U11s to be consistent every week.
Refs can't do right for doing wrong either at that level, they get abuse for being too strict and then the same ones give them stick for being too lenient.
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
Seen that a few times myself more of a babysitting match
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:47:30 PM
Like do coaches of U9 or U11 teams go around telling their mates about the great wins the team had? Are they down the pub talking about the sweeper system they've implemented? I wouldn't want to be in the same building with these eejits.
Some of them must think it's a way into senior management or something. I'd be disappointed for the lads themselves if they have a bad game but that's it. I've seen some coaches, including some of our own, go off at lads after the game. That won't help anyone. You can't expect U11s to be consistent every week.
Refs can't do right for doing wrong either at that level, they get abuse for being too strict and then the same ones give them stick for being too lenient.
Some of those managers do go on to take senior teams within their club, there's only two levels I haven't been involved with over the years, for a lot of the years it's always been the same volunteers looking after teams, it's only when a 'golden' team comes along that people are really interested in getting involved, use the word involved, loosely...
Shouting at kids is wrong, I've spoken to managers during juvenile games I'm refereeing at, telling them that they can't do it. The competitive side of things will always kick in at some point and as long as it's measured there's nothing wrong with teaching that.
All clubs need to have a juvenile chairman and committee with a clear plan to work with, I feel managers should take a team right through to minor and then go back to the start, continuity with kids I feel is important, it can be stressful and takes up a lot of your time outside of work, but it's enjoyable to see them turn into lovely young men or women if you're involved with the ladies games.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
Bullshit. Some kids never have a ball or a hurley out of their hands some don't pick it up from one week to the next. That's the reality. If you think some coach is gonna turn a kid into David Clifford then you need your head looked at. The job of the coach is to demonstrate and encourage. The child needs to practice if he/she wants to get better. And you know what if? If they do they do and if not, then nobody should be too worried. We've kids who come for the craic and the fun and others want to win All Irelands. There needs to be room for all at underage and all get equal playing time.
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
Bullshit. Some kids never have a ball or a hurley out of their hands some don't pick it up from one week to the next. That's the reality. If you think some coach is gonna turn a kid into David Clifford then you need your head looked at. The job of the coach is to demonstrate and encourage. The child needs to practice if he/she wants to get better. And you know what if? If they do they do and if not, then nobody should be too worried. We've kids who come for the craic and the fun and others want to win All Irelands. There needs to be room for all at underage and all get equal playing time.
Do you think Clifford picked up the ball once every other week? Did he fck he was brought up with it. Football is his bread and butter and the kingdom youth system was the knife.
The key thing with kids is participation.
If we give kids as much game time as possible they will have a huge affinity with the club - when they get older some realise that playing isnt for them and they move into different roles within a club.
If you look at your own club there will be plenty of volunteers currently in positions of power that played little or no senior football/hurling.
This 'win at all costs' mentality is bad in the long run for a club.
I read about a model a club have in place for underage (could be Nemo) and that should be the model most clubs adopt and run with
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2021, 01:54:09 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:47:30 PM
Like do coaches of U9 or U11 teams go around telling their mates about the great wins the team had? Are they down the pub talking about the sweeper system they've implemented? I wouldn't want to be in the same building with these eejits.
Some of them must think it's a way into senior management or something. I'd be disappointed for the lads themselves if they have a bad game but that's it. I've seen some coaches, including some of our own, go off at lads after the game. That won't help anyone. You can't expect U11s to be consistent every week.
Refs can't do right for doing wrong either at that level, they get abuse for being too strict and then the same ones give them stick for being too lenient.
Some of those managers do go on to take senior teams within their club, there's only two levels I haven't been involved with over the years, for a lot of the years it's always been the same volunteers looking after teams, it's only when a 'golden' team comes along that people are really interested in getting involved, use the word involved, loosely...
Shouting at kids is wrong, I've spoken to managers during juvenile games I'm refereeing at, telling them that they can't do it. The competitive side of things will always kick in at some point and as long as it's measured there's nothing wrong with teaching that.
All clubs need to have a juvenile chairman and committee with a clear plan to work with, I feel managers should take a team right through to minor and then go back to the start, continuity with kids I feel is important, it can be stressful and takes up a lot of your time outside of work, but it's enjoyable to see them turn into lovely young men or women if you're involved with the ladies games.
Not sure I would agree with that, I would say that any of us take a small bit from every coach we have, important to be exposed to different ideas and deliveries.
I would say that competitiveness should be gradually introduced from U15, at the end of the day a successful juvenile coaching team (fundamentals through to U17) should be judged on how many individuals remain involved through to the adult teams and their improvement/development along the way.
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
I cant agree. Im talking about hurling here, grip, short stick, jab lift, hook, block. Every child can do it, yes you will have some better than others, but if a whole team cant its the coach usually.
Of course the skills will then need repeatedly improved at home. Not sure about football, but its much much more basic and easier than hurling anyhow so i imagine the same applies
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 02:02:03 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
Bullshit. Some kids never have a ball or a hurley out of their hands some don't pick it up from one week to the next. That's the reality. If you think some coach is gonna turn a kid into David Clifford then you need your head looked at. The job of the coach is to demonstrate and encourage. The child needs to practice if he/she wants to get better. And you know what if? If they do they do and if not, then nobody should be too worried. We've kids who come for the craic and the fun and others want to win All Irelands. There needs to be room for all at underage and all get equal playing time.
see above, im talking about whole teams(not individuals), bad coaches who have never played themselves will struggle with proper fundamentals, of course all the rest you say about indivdual practice and ability etc is true.
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
I cant agree. Im talking about hurling here, grip, short stick, jab lift, hook, block. Every child can do it, yes you will have some better than others, but if a whole team cant its the coach usually.
Of course the skills will then need repeatedly improved at home. Not sure about football, but its much much more basic and easier than hurling anyhow so i imagine the same applies
I agree to a certain extent, the basics in hurling can be seen even in games that don't go their way. On the other hand if you're competing against other sports for time and the hurl goes in the boot after the training session and isn't lifted to the next week there's only so much you can do with them.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
I cant agree. Im talking about hurling here, grip, short stick, jab lift, hook, block. Every child can do it, yes you will have some better than others, but if a whole team cant its the coach usually.
Of course the skills will then need repeatedly improved at home. Not sure about football, but its much much more basic and easier than hurling anyhow so i imagine the same applies
I agree to a certain extent, the basics in hurling can be seen even in games that don't go their way. On the other hand if you're competing against other sports for time and the hurl goes in the boot after the training session and isn't lifted to the next week there's only so much you can do with them.
Agreed
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
There is no "then" about it. It's a a fact that 99.9% will fail. There is no other way about it. What point are you trying to make johnny?
Every parent wants to be father/mother of the next David Clifford? Christ the night....
A proper parent wants their kids to be happy, healthy and enjoy life. If you're aspirations are to have a once in a generation type player then there will be a lot of unhappy parents.
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
There is no "then" about it. It's a a fact that 99.9% will fail. There is no other way about it. What point are you trying to make johnny?
The point I'm making is that each kid should be afforded the opportunity to be the best that they can be and I don't necessarily think that noncompetitive games up to 12/13 year olds is hindering the high performers. They will still develop their skills along the way. When we enter the competitive games at 14 or 15 years old it's probably more important to develop the correct attitudes in terms of training, preparation and mental resilience to drive on when things don't go their way.
A kid not turning out to be a Tony Kelly or Kyle Hayes isn't a failure and if they've a positive experience of the club and association during those formative years then they're more inclined to help out at various different levels at a later date.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
There is no "then" about it. It's a a fact that 99.9% will fail. There is no other way about it. What point are you trying to make johnny?
The point I'm making is that each kid should be afforded the opportunity to be the best that they can be and I don't necessarily think that noncompetitive games up to 12/13 year olds is hindering the high performers. They will still develop their skills along the way. When we enter the competitive games at 14 or 15 years old it's probably more important to develop the correct attitudes in terms of training, preparation and mental resilience to drive on when things don't go their way.
A kid not turning out to be a Tony Kelly or Kyle Hayes isn't a failure and if they've a positive experience of the club and association during those formative years then they're more inclined to help out at various different levels at a later date.
Breed for profit?
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
There is no "then" about it. It's a a fact that 99.9% will fail. There is no other way about it. What point are you trying to make johnny?
The point I'm making is that each kid should be afforded the opportunity to be the best that they can be and I don't necessarily think that noncompetitive games up to 12/13 year olds is hindering the high performers. They will still develop their skills along the way. When we enter the competitive games at 14 or 15 years old it's probably more important to develop the correct attitudes in terms of training, preparation and mental resilience to drive on when things don't go their way.
A kid not turning out to be a Tony Kelly or Kyle Hayes isn't a failure and if they've a positive experience of the club and association during those formative years then they're more inclined to help out at various different levels at a later date.
Breed for profit?
eh?
Are you inclined to sell off your offspring?
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 05:03:32 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:46:08 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 04:37:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 19, 2021, 03:37:45 PM
Quote from: trailer on July 19, 2021, 12:44:50 PM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 19, 2021, 11:27:34 AM
Quote from: bigarsedkeeper on July 19, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Quote from: guy crouchback on July 19, 2021, 09:37:10 AM
its happening in the team my lad plays with U11. players drifting away. in our club its by and large the coaches fault. its a pity, in a good few cases its lads that have loads of potential just not there yet, now they might never be ''there'' but they have potential.
but as others have said its easy to criticize from the sidelines the reality is any of the coaches would probably gladly hand me the whistle if i thought i could do better. in my defense i do coach with another team in the club, with my younger lad and at this stage the best i can hope to do is learn from the mistakes of this bunch.
firstly they each have a kid on the team and each seem to believe that their lad is the next cillian o connor. this is bad enough but the real problem is they are bizarrely obsessed with winning U11 games. this results in team selection that leaves loads of player out and piles huge pressure on those who play.
at one game the ''A'' team had 3 subs whilst the ''B'' team had 11 subs
now the result of this Cody like desire to win is that so far they have lost every game they have played ( GO games, so no one keeping score only themselves). and worse the other result is good lads/girls walking away (luckily the girls walk around the corner to the girls club).
now my lad would not be the greatest but not the worst either, incredibly enthusiastic absolutely LOVES football and has a super attitude, never gives up, never complains. but after one recent match he was down in the dumps and upset for a week. i was so mad i was going to talk to them but he begged me not to. instead he killed himself training for a week at home and when he went back things were a bit better (only because 3/4 other players were away on holiday) but it will happen again next week, nothing surer and to be honest i will not have him like that again, ill sooner pull him out, he plays soccer and rugby as well and while football is his first love they will have to do.
its a huge pity but the reality is the coaches have no interest in lads they dont think will be good enough and they dont care if they go in fact i think they are happier. nothing is going to change this attitude and the longer my lads sticks it out the more knocks he going to have to take before he eventually gets the message and gives up.
Could the club not have 3 teams in that case?
Our club had too many for 1 team for the first time this year so entered a B team. A team carried 11 players and no subs, B team took whatever was left and maybe had a couple of very young U9s on the line in some games. It's worked well - not perfect by any means but better than we expected.
Football is very competitive in Down at U11s, in contrast the hurling is seen as a bit of a run out and lads enjoy it more. There's nowhere near the same yapping from the sidelines etc.
Made my morning ;D ;D ;D
Probably should have explained that better :o - the way games are set up leaves things very competitive for the age of the players involved. If coaches are getting sent off for slabbering at refs at U11s or starting rows with other coaches etc you're not doing it right.
Anyone taking U11 football seriously needs to see a Doctor. They're a danger to society unless they get medical help.
One of my first experiences of helping out with coaching structures within my club was trying to use young lads to referee the U12 games which up to that point was an official referee and £30 a game IIRC. I thought it was madness as it was Go Games so no score was kept and there was a middle third where the weaker lads got a run out, so in my simplistic view it was a no brainer. So our secretary was dispatched to a CB meeting to bring this up and he was met with a wall of incredulity at suggesting such a thing as the young lads would be killed by the parents and coaches if this was brought in. Mostly Down football clubs I might add. Nuts I tell you ;D
We don't have official referee's which is now U11.5 or P7 in old money, so kind of a win but just checking there an U11.5 football still appoints official referee's but as before they're nuts over there..
Each club should have a policy of sorts defining who gets what in terms of meaningful gametime.
We up to go games try to ensure that every kid at whatever agegroup gets a minimum of 50% of gametime available to them. Go games allows for that as you can have as many subs as you like, so roll them on and off. Every kid of a certain age gets an invite without exception as in the past we found that some coaches were "inclined" not to invite the weaker kids in an attempt to win a blitz of some sort or other.
The "competitive" age groups we deploy the 4 A's. Age, Attendance, Attitude and Ability (to compete, defend themselves) plus being a small rural club where we've overlaps between teams the amount of opportunity a kid gets at another level should be taken into consideration.
For instance if we've two 15yo's, one plays a lot for the U17's and one doesn't. The one who plays for the U17's should be taken off first and if we bring on an U13 then we need to be sure they are relatively comfortable to compete and look after themselves at that level and have the wherewithal to protect themselves.
Reflective glory by some of the coaches is still an issue..
It's mad the difference in dealing with the same clubs at different codes over here. There is refs sometimes at U11 football, sometimes not. But they get a load of shit whether its an official ref or not. Saw it only yesterday but it's the boards fault for setting up competitive leagues at that age. The blitzes going away has helped up at U9 to make it less competitive.
Boards by and large only put in place what the respective clubs want.
Clubs and respective boards need to step back and take the heat out of the environment we're expecting kids to develop, thrive and ultimately enjoy themselves if there's shouting and balling at referees at a Go Games match..
At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy
Then 99.9% are bound to fail.
There is no "then" about it. It's a a fact that 99.9% will fail. There is no other way about it. What point are you trying to make johnny?
The point I'm making is that each kid should be afforded the opportunity to be the best that they can be and I don't necessarily think that noncompetitive games up to 12/13 year olds is hindering the high performers. They will still develop their skills along the way. When we enter the competitive games at 14 or 15 years old it's probably more important to develop the correct attitudes in terms of training, preparation and mental resilience to drive on when things don't go their way.
A kid not turning out to be a Tony Kelly or Kyle Hayes isn't a failure and if they've a positive experience of the club and association during those formative years then they're more inclined to help out at various different levels at a later date.
Breed for profit?
eh?
Are you inclined to sell off your offspring?
I'm not myself i was gonna ask you the same thing. I'd say you have a price
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 19, 2021, 04:53:33 PM
Every parent wants to be father/mother of the next David Clifford? Christ the night....
A proper parent wants their kids to be happy, healthy and enjoy life. If you're aspirations are to have a once in a generation type player then there will be a lot of unhappy parents.
100percent
This thread really epitomises the conundrum for players, coaches and parents.
The core of that conundrum being that we could lose less developed players forever, if they're not exposed to the game at a suitable pace in their formative years, but at the same time we could lose the interest of more developed players if they're simultaneously held back in terms of competitive football against suitable peers.
Having worked with u9s for the past couple of summers, I'm of the belief that if a youngster doesn't have the interest/initiative to watch football and practice their skills, outside of their direct club activities, then even if they get one-to-one coaching for a couple of hours a week, and ample game time in every position, they still won't improve. The ones who improve every month are the ones who every time you meet them, have a ball in their hands; the ones who look at being able to kick a point from 20 yards as a challenge they are destined to succeed in.
It's no different in this way to any other sport, to playing an instrument, or to arts and crafts. And my observations are that an awful lot of parents and well-meaning Gaels are unwilling to recognise this. There is a world of difference between coaching a weaker player who enjoys the game, and a weaker player who doesn't. Even the strongest and most competitive 9 year old will embrace playing with the former: they tend do so outside of GAA activity too.
I do think every child should be encouraged into a team sport, for it's a great pedestal for life in general. But I would also think a desire to capture and indoctrinate kids who look at football the way I would look at an art museum (startled, bored, uncomfortable), is a genuinely misplaced level of effort.
A light might come on those kids' heads a few years down the line. My underlying feeling though is that until it comes on, coaching won't make a difference - and as coaches, we should have a right to stream them accordingly. Not turn them away. Just stream them.
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 19, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
I'd not be so keen on wains getting called clean useless tbh
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 19, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
I'd not be so keen on wains getting called clean useless tbh
I'm sure I'm not the only one who when they were younger prob fell into that bracket of being 'clean useless' don't think even my da woulda thought I was up to much but in fairness he kept me at it and when I was 12/13 it finally clicked and started getting ok, when I hit 16/17 I was pretty decent, played senior hurling and football for plenty of years. Football and hurling are to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of ability, I know my own lad is 4, football mad, started the under 6s, I've a mate who's wee boy is 4 months older, doesn't go to Gaelic but a wee soccer team and his skill levels are unreal, I was wondering was my wee boy just not cut out for football then I caught myself on and realised all kids will develop at their own pace. There's n such thing as dead wood or lost causes at under age, just late developers
Good post
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 10:18:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 19, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
I'd not be so keen on wains getting called clean useless tbh
I'm sure I'm not the only one who when they were younger prob fell into that bracket of being 'clean useless' don't think even my da woulda thought I was up to much but in fairness he kept me at it and when I was 12/13 it finally clicked and started getting ok, when I hit 16/17 I was pretty decent, played senior hurling and football for plenty of years. Football and hurling are to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of ability, I know my own lad is 4, football mad, started the under 6s, I've a mate who's wee boy is 4 months older, doesn't go to Gaelic but a wee soccer team and his skill levels are unreal, I was wondering was my wee boy just not cut out for football then I caught myself on and realised all kids will develop at their own pace. There's n such thing as dead wood or lost causes at under age, just late developers
:o :o
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 06:22:18 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 10:18:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 19, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
I'd not be so keen on wains getting called clean useless tbh
I'm sure I'm not the only one who when they were younger prob fell into that bracket of being 'clean useless' don't think even my da woulda thought I was up to much but in fairness he kept me at it and when I was 12/13 it finally clicked and started getting ok, when I hit 16/17 I was pretty decent, played senior hurling and football for plenty of years. Football and hurling are to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of ability, I know my own lad is 4, football mad, started the under 6s, I've a mate who's wee boy is 4 months older, doesn't go to Gaelic but a wee soccer team and his skill levels are unreal, I was wondering was my wee boy just not cut out for football then I caught myself on and realised all kids will develop at their own pace. There's n such thing as dead wood or lost causes at under age, just late developers
:o :o
Seriously, few weeks ago we were outdoor having a beer and his wee lad was there knocking the ball off the wall both feet and his da was throwing the ball and he could control it I was like what age is he 5/6 and he said he was turning 5 in a few months. Fs my wee lad goes to the fundamentals and I look over at him and he's pretending to be spider man shooting webs at the ball haha
Quote from: themac_23 on July 20, 2021, 07:42:12 AM
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 06:22:18 AM
Quote from: themac_23 on July 19, 2021, 10:18:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 19, 2021, 07:51:24 PM
Quote from: Rudi on July 19, 2021, 01:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 19, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
Never worried about results but would be worried if fundamentals were not there-that comes down to the coach
No it doesn't some kids are clean useless. No athletic ability, no balance etc. Then then chose when & when not to come to training. Coach can do nothing with those kids.
This is true enough. That and the fact that some of them only see a football or a hurley for an hour a week doesn't do any favours either.
I'd not be so keen on wains getting called clean useless tbh
I'm sure I'm not the only one who when they were younger prob fell into that bracket of being 'clean useless' don't think even my da woulda thought I was up to much but in fairness he kept me at it and when I was 12/13 it finally clicked and started getting ok, when I hit 16/17 I was pretty decent, played senior hurling and football for plenty of years. Football and hurling are to be enjoyed by everyone regardless of ability, I know my own lad is 4, football mad, started the under 6s, I've a mate who's wee boy is 4 months older, doesn't go to Gaelic but a wee soccer team and his skill levels are unreal, I was wondering was my wee boy just not cut out for football then I caught myself on and realised all kids will develop at their own pace. There's n such thing as dead wood or lost causes at under age, just late developers
:o :o
Seriously, few weeks ago we were outdoor having a beer and his wee lad was there knocking the ball off the wall both feet and his da was throwing the ball and he could control it I was like what age is he 5/6 and he said he was turning 5 in a few months. Fs my wee lad goes to the fundamentals and I look over at him and he's pretending to be spider man shooting webs at the ball haha
They all find their levels, my nephew was a bit like the spider kid! I'd said to my brother his attention span is terrible, it was literally a year and the change was phenomenal, hurling football and prominent on his local soccer team.
They just need to have the ball and stick with them all times
Just let them play. Children all develop at different ages. Smile, encourage and have fun. Follow Shane Smith on Twitter. He has a great insight into coaching children. Remember they are not mini adults.
Shane's pinned twet
12 ways to retain more children in sport
1 Know names
2 Say hello
3 Include all
4 Play fun warm ups
5 Smile
6 Allow some free play
7 Reduce overly structured sessions
8 Play small sided games
9 Praise effort
10 Accept mistakes
11 Encourage creativity
12 Remove pressure
Quote from: trailer on July 20, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Just let them play. Children all develop at different ages. Smile, encourage and have fun. Follow Shane Smith on Twitter. He has a great insight into coaching children. Remember they are not mini adults.
Shane's pinned twet
12 ways to retain more children in sport
1 Know names
2 Say hello
3 Include all
4 Play fun warm ups
5 Smile
6 Allow some free play
7 Reduce overly structured sessions
8 Play small sided games
9 Praise effort
10 Accept mistakes
11 Encourage creativity
12 Remove pressure
Going into far too much detail folks, god knows how the youth of yesteryear were trained without the advice of somebody from twitter...
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 20, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Just let them play. Children all develop at different ages. Smile, encourage and have fun. Follow Shane Smith on Twitter. He has a great insight into coaching children. Remember they are not mini adults.
Shane's pinned twet
12 ways to retain more children in sport
1 Know names
2 Say hello
3 Include all
4 Play fun warm ups
5 Smile
6 Allow some free play
7 Reduce overly structured sessions
8 Play small sided games
9 Praise effort
10 Accept mistakes
11 Encourage creativity
12 Remove pressure
Going into far too much detail folks, god knows how the youth of yesteryear were trained without the advice of somebody from twitter...
You'll not have to worry anyway Angelo. No one will want to have kids with you.
;D.. Jesus lol
I am the coaching officer in my club and am Grappling with a lot of these subjects. Even as a coach I have been very conscious of player drop out as I have coached my own lads teams from U6 up to where he is now playing U11 & U13. To put our club in context we would be struggling to field a team of boys at U13/U15/U17- wed usually need 2 or 3 players to play up from a younger level. Its a bit easier as we have the girls still at U7/U9/U11 before they go off to a local dedicated girls team made of up from 3 of the clubs in our area.
Here are a few things I have...
1- Lack of interest from the kids parents in a major major barrier. It is def the No1. Child brought and dumped for a bit of baby sitting but doesnt see a ball from one day to the next at home. These kids require huge extra work to get them to really enjoy the sport so that they might annoy the parent enough to get them a ball, bring them to matches etc. But even with all this extra work the return I would say is poor. I would estimate in this category I would have 50% retention. It is soul destroying as you put so much into it. Even the 50% you keep, they dont develop as well as other players. You'd be very tempted to give up on this category if you were from a big club with big numbers but in a small club like ours just cant do it.
2- Crazy parents. I know ye all know about these. I have one who thinks his child is too good to play GAA for this club (he isnt) and instead goes and plays soccer in a big town before no doubt he will be snapped up by Man Utd(he wont). I have another one who thinks both his lads (aged 8 and 9) are going to focus on rugby as they are Ireland material. Again these parents are a huge drain on the club and coaches. We have started to just kick them to touch. They poison their kids, other parents and are just requiring too much effort for likely a very low return.
3- Coaches. It is so important to get the right coaches in place. Its likely going to be someone with a child on each team. But you need a lead coach thats in it for the club in the long run. Different kids will develop at different times. You cannot make a call at U11 that a fella is worth persisting with or not. You need to be aware of the dates of birth of children as in an age group you can have kids 2 years apart in age. You need to give kids a chance on the team even if it means you might lose. My job as coaching officer is to keep informing the coaches of this and I suppose to make sure I am getting the right type of person on each team. This year I spent many weeks working through names and eliminating people who I didnt think would fit the bill. It is a tough job being a coach and trying to keep everyone happy. Its ok to say give every child equal game time but you have to also think about the kid that has ambition to play for county etc and ends up losing all their games as you dogedly stick to equal playing time. Every coach needs to try and get the mix right.
4- Club Spending: Coaches, parents etc need to make sure their club is investing in the youth. Gear for identity, trips away for bonding. The club needs to build pride in the players and parents. Too many clubs spending all their money on senior teams. Senior teams should be financing much of their own expenses (especially those that work). Put the money into the kids.
5- Dont ignore the girls ffs. So important to keep girls in sport and I know we have produced some brilliant players and handed them over to the ladies team. I love to see them do well. If you have a coach that sticks all the girls in a corner doing cartwheels get him out to f**k of your club.
Those are a few of my thoughts. Interesting reading in this thread.
Quote from: Itchy on July 20, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I am the coaching officer in my club and am Grappling with a lot of these subjects. Even as a coach I have been very conscious of player drop out as I have coached my own lads teams from U6 up to where he is now playing U11 & U13. To put our club in context we would be struggling to field a team of boys at U13/U15/U17- wed usually need 2 or 3 players to play up from a younger level. Its a bit easier as we have the girls still at U7/U9/U11 before they go off to a local dedicated girls team made of up from 3 of the clubs in our area.
Here are a few things I have...
1- Lack of interest from the kids parents in a major major barrier. It is def the No1. Child brought and dumped for a bit of baby sitting but doesnt see a ball from one day to the next at home. These kids require huge extra work to get them to really enjoy the sport so that they might annoy the parent enough to get them a ball, bring them to matches etc. But even with all this extra work the return I would say is poor. I would estimate in this category I would have 50% retention. It is soul destroying as you put so much into it. Even the 50% you keep, they dont develop as well as other players. You'd be very tempted to give up on this category if you were from a big club with big numbers but in a small club like ours just cant do it.
2- Crazy parents. I know ye all know about these. I have one who thinks his child is too good to play GAA for this club (he isnt) and instead goes and plays soccer in a big town before no doubt he will be snapped up by Man Utd(he wont). I have another one who thinks both his lads (aged 8 and 9) are going to focus on rugby as they are Ireland material. Again these parents are a huge drain on the club and coaches. We have started to just kick them to touch. They poison their kids, other parents and are just requiring too much effort for likely a very low return.
3- Coaches. It is so important to get the right coaches in place. Its likely going to be someone with a child on each team. But you need a lead coach thats in it for the club in the long run. Different kids will develop at different times. You cannot make a call at U11 that a fella is worth persisting with or not. You need to be aware of the dates of birth of children as in an age group you can have kids 2 years apart in age. You need to give kids a chance on the team even if it means you might lose. My job as coaching officer is to keep informing the coaches of this and I suppose to make sure I am getting the right type of person on each team. This year I spent many weeks working through names and eliminating people who I didnt think would fit the bill. It is a tough job being a coach and trying to keep everyone happy. Its ok to say give every child equal game time but you have to also think about the kid that has ambition to play for county etc and ends up losing all their games as you dogedly stick to equal playing time. Every coach needs to try and get the mix right.
4- Club Spending: Coaches, parents etc need to make sure their club is investing in the youth. Gear for identity, trips away for bonding. The club needs to build pride in the players and parents. Too many clubs spending all their money on senior teams. Senior teams should be financing much of their own expenses (especially those that work). Put the money into the kids.
5- Dont ignore the girls ffs. So important to keep girls in sport and I know we have produced some brilliant players and handed them over to the ladies team. I love to see them do well. If you have a coach that sticks all the girls in a corner doing cartwheels get him out to f**k of your club.
Those are a few of my thoughts. Interesting reading in this thread.
Nice read
Quote from: Itchy on July 20, 2021, 12:39:48 PM
I am the coaching officer in my club and am Grappling with a lot of these subjects. Even as a coach I have been very conscious of player drop out as I have coached my own lads teams from U6 up to where he is now playing U11 & U13. To put our club in context we would be struggling to field a team of boys at U13/U15/U17- wed usually need 2 or 3 players to play up from a younger level. Its a bit easier as we have the girls still at U7/U9/U11 before they go off to a local dedicated girls team made of up from 3 of the clubs in our area.
Here are a few things I have...
1- Lack of interest from the kids parents in a major major barrier. It is def the No1. Child brought and dumped for a bit of baby sitting but doesnt see a ball from one day to the next at home. These kids require huge extra work to get them to really enjoy the sport so that they might annoy the parent enough to get them a ball, bring them to matches etc. But even with all this extra work the return I would say is poor. I would estimate in this category I would have 50% retention. It is soul destroying as you put so much into it. Even the 50% you keep, they dont develop as well as other players. You'd be very tempted to give up on this category if you were from a big club with big numbers but in a small club like ours just cant do it.
2- Crazy parents. I know ye all know about these. I have one who thinks his child is too good to play GAA for this club (he isnt) and instead goes and plays soccer in a big town before no doubt he will be snapped up by Man Utd(he wont). I have another one who thinks both his lads (aged 8 and 9) are going to focus on rugby as they are Ireland material. Again these parents are a huge drain on the club and coaches. We have started to just kick them to touch. They poison their kids, other parents and are just requiring too much effort for likely a very low return.
3- Coaches. It is so important to get the right coaches in place. Its likely going to be someone with a child on each team. But you need a lead coach thats in it for the club in the long run. Different kids will develop at different times. You cannot make a call at U11 that a fella is worth persisting with or not. You need to be aware of the dates of birth of children as in an age group you can have kids 2 years apart in age. You need to give kids a chance on the team even if it means you might lose. My job as coaching officer is to keep informing the coaches of this and I suppose to make sure I am getting the right type of person on each team. This year I spent many weeks working through names and eliminating people who I didnt think would fit the bill. It is a tough job being a coach and trying to keep everyone happy. Its ok to say give every child equal game time but you have to also think about the kid that has ambition to play for county etc and ends up losing all their games as you dogedly stick to equal playing time. Every coach needs to try and get the mix right.
4- Club Spending: Coaches, parents etc need to make sure their club is investing in the youth. Gear for identity, trips away for bonding. The club needs to build pride in the players and parents. Too many clubs spending all their money on senior teams. Senior teams should be financing much of their own expenses (especially those that work). Put the money into the kids.
5- Dont ignore the girls ffs. So important to keep girls in sport and I know we have produced some brilliant players and handed them over to the ladies team. I love to see them do well. If you have a coach that sticks all the girls in a corner doing cartwheels get him out to f**k of your club.
Those are a few of my thoughts. Interesting reading in this thread.
Just on point 2, I think parents have to make the conscious decision on what they can reasonably send children to and what they can't, a child can't do it all.
In my youth I would have trained with the school after school with a few different teams, then went off and played with the club or hurling club or soccer club that night. I know for my child I don't want that, its not fair on anyone when you can't commit to one or the other. The more arguments you get into over the back of trying to please everyone, be two places at once etc.
Quote from: AnGaelGearmanach on July 20, 2021, 09:46:53 AM
Quote from: trailer on July 20, 2021, 09:29:54 AM
Just let them play. Children all develop at different ages. Smile, encourage and have fun. Follow Shane Smith on Twitter. He has a great insight into coaching children. Remember they are not mini adults.
Shane's pinned twet
12 ways to retain more children in sport
1 Know names
2 Say hello
3 Include all
4 Play fun warm ups
5 Smile
6 Allow some free play
7 Reduce overly structured sessions
8 Play small sided games
9 Praise effort
10 Accept mistakes
11 Encourage creativity
12 Remove pressure
Going into far too much detail folks, god knows how the youth of yesteryear were trained without the advice of somebody from twitter...
A sign of a good juvenile coach is to have an open mind and the ability to take in information from all sources.
Its obviously not for you Angelo
Back in my day we played/trained school matches during the season, club, we trained hurling football and played all grades and as a juvenile I was lucky to be on county juvenile teams. On some of those juvenile teams we played under 14/16 and minor and not a thought was given.
I played into my mid forties, why is it now, when we have better pitches, better coaching, better facilities that kids are playing too much? I forgot to add to that list, rioting during the summer months!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Back in my day we played/trained school matches during the season, club, we trained hurling football and played all grades and as a juvenile I was lucky to be on county juvenile teams. On some of those juvenile teams we played under 14/16 and minor and not a thought was given.
I played into my mid forties, why is it now, when we have better pitches, better coaching, better facilities that kids are playing too much? I forgot to add to that list, rioting during the summer months!
At what distance could you hit the "Moonman". That was a real marker of athletic ability back in the day
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 20, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Back in my day we played/trained school matches during the season, club, we trained hurling football and played all grades and as a juvenile I was lucky to be on county juvenile teams. On some of those juvenile teams we played under 14/16 and minor and not a thought was given.
I played into my mid forties, why is it now, when we have better pitches, better coaching, better facilities that kids are playing too much? I forgot to add to that list, rioting during the summer months!
At what distance could you hit the "Moonman". That was a real marker of athletic ability back in the day
Half a street away, rubber bullets lost their power a bit, the bin lids weren't just for banging, multi purpose shields, bit like captain American, though when ya flung them they never came back!
Those nights were agility training, hopping over walls, railings, sprinting through burnt out buildings gave us great balance
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2021, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on July 20, 2021, 02:40:24 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
Back in my day we played/trained school matches during the season, club, we trained hurling football and played all grades and as a juvenile I was lucky to be on county juvenile teams. On some of those juvenile teams we played under 14/16 and minor and not a thought was given.
I played into my mid forties, why is it now, when we have better pitches, better coaching, better facilities that kids are playing too much? I forgot to add to that list, rioting during the summer months!
ha ha, sounds familiar
At what distance could you hit the "Moonman". That was a real marker of athletic ability back in the day
Half a street away, rubber bullets lost their power a bit, the bin lids weren't just for banging, multi purpose shields, bit like captain American, though when ya flung them they never came back!
Those nights were agility training, hopping over walls, railings, sprinting through burnt out buildings gave us great balance
"At the end of the day a good competitive mentally needs to be instilled into the youth. Of course some of the stories you hear are ridiculous but you have to put yourself in the parents shoes, every parent wants to be the father/mother of the next CON, David Clifford or Michael Conroy"
Mickey C was a decent footballer and is probably still remembered by older kids around Irishtown/balllindine area but in the county superstar context you're speaking above, nah . (You mean Tommy C ) ?