Hurling 2024

[didlyi]

[/quote]
I was watching a camogie match today. The curse of the rucks. There is no ground hurling any more. This has been replaced by rucks thanks to the short hurls.
[/quote]
Players emerging from rucks with one hand up around the bas and the other hand holding the ball. You know from this stance that their first intention is to offload a handpass and they nearly always do. The reward for winning a ruck is too big and hence the rucks get bigger and bigger. We have endless threads on how to solve problems in Gaelic Football yet we are happy for hurling to follow it down the same old handpassing hole. Handpassing is the primary problem and rucks are secondary.

[seafoid]

Huge rucks are a very recent development in the game. Ground hurling was much more efficient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eM5-r5tG3Y

[didlyi]

The rucks developed over the last 10 years as did the over use of the throw like handpass. So theres a relationship there. And sure the lack of ground hurling makes rucks more likely but ground hurling has been in decline for 30 years. The way hurling is going the hurl will be used less and the hand even more.

[Milltown Row2]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

[seafoid]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Hurling never stays still. 20 years ago there was the running game of Cork. then Kilkenny introuced stickwork and intensity, Galway and Tipp followed up with the use of space. Limerick brought possession  Something else will replace that .

[didlyi]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

[Milltown Row2]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

[didlyi]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

[Milltown Row2]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

[didlyi]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

[Milltown Row2]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

There's nothing convenient about it.. do we just call for fouls in all parts of the game because he probably did it?

Make the rule change and that's that.. but don't be making stuff up.

[didlyi]

There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.

Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...

At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.

Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.

Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.

You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?

I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.

There's a simple rule in refereeing

If you can't see it you can't call it.

The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf

Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.

Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open

That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

There's nothing convenient about it.. do we just call for fouls in all parts of the game because he probably did it?

Make the rule change and that's that.. but don't be making stuff up.

Absouloutely not but with the proposed new rule there is no 'probably', its clearcut.

[johnnycool]

Jackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.

GAA Social

A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..

On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.

Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.

Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.

Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.

I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...

[Kidder81]

He had already bared a lot of it on Laochra Gael a couple of years ago

[seafoid]

Jackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.

GAA Social

A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..

On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.

Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.

Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.

Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.

I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...

If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...